SHC @ Mitty Streaming
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Don’t remember but Mitty by 20. 1 point game at half time. Close until the middle of the 4th.
Definitely the worst game Mitty has played in WCAL. Look how many rebounds they gave up on missed FT's alone. Transition defense wasn't good. Haley Jones seemed out of sorts in the first half. Blakes also. Not taking anything away from SHC because they are way better than their record and are coming together at the right time. Great job pressuring the ball and attacking Mitty. They made Mitty look normal for 3 qtrs.
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Gotta give credit where credit is due. SHC played a good game. The key to beating Mitty is limiting their transition points and attacking them in transition. SHC was able to do that. Blake was able to get a lot of easy point is transition in the second half and that’s where the game was lost. Let’s also keep in mind Mitty shot 35 free throws SHC shot 14. The OPEN CCS is going to be very interesting.
Are you kidding me? Are you the guy talking in the video? Refs did a good job keeping control in the second half. Not sure what game you're watching. SHC played GREAT but not refs fault for missed layups and turnovers. Game was called consistently on both ends. All the "questionable" calls, were legit; both sides.
SHC fans still classy as always.
This scenario reminds me of a mitty team two years ago when Salesian with Minyon Moore came in and beat them in NorCal playoffs.
Aggressive physical defense may be the may to slow mitty down. I agree with previous post stating if you control Mitty transition game it will keep it close. Far too many layups in lack of D getting back.
Aggressive physical defense may be the may to slow mitty down. I agree with previous post stating if you control Mitty transition game it will keep it close. Far too many layups in lack of D getting back.
Kidding you I am not. Nor am I the gentleman talking in the video. I watched the same game you watched. How did the refs control the game with the foul count 35-14? How is that consistent? Both teams missed shots and layups. Both teams did not shoot the same amount of free throws. Especially in the second half.
I don't think it is the ref's job to make sure that each team shoots the same amount of free throws. Some teams have players out of position that end up reaching more or that foul more than others. As long as they are calling the same type of fouls both ways, they have no obligation to make sure that team B gets to the line as often as team A.
You are correct. The refs job is to be consistent with the calls they make so that the flow of the game is the same for both teams. IMO the refs did not call the game consistently.
SHC played way more physical than mitty, which was probably the reason they were in the game for so long. Ref fouls aren't determined how even it is..if one team is only shooting and one is driving the driving team gets more calls. I only watch the second half, but looked pretty even to me.
It’s all an opinion at the end of the day so you have the right to disagree. I was at the game and the game wasn’t a physical one or consistent with the calls. It is what it is Mitty won the game so that’s the end of that.
I don't know why people refuse to acknowledge this. IMO the FT disparity should have been greater. SHC got away with a lot that wasn't called and seemed to be targeting Jones. Low bridging her on jumpers and lobs and blatant chucks off of screens. To point at the FT totals and claim the game wasn't evenly officiated is laughable.
Didn't watch the game or the tape, but counting free throw attempts is not a good way to determine whether the officiating leaned one way or another.
Generally, the quicker team will draw more fouls, and sometimes if one team's plan is to try to use physicality to overcome a talent deficit -- which could have happened here -- then there will be a disparity in foul shots.
As for Mitty specifically, one of several major advantages the team has is depth, which is why they tend to pull away late in the game if they need to. Rolling in fresh, talented players throughout the game will wear down an opponent that relies heavily on just five or six players. So credit to any team that hang with Mitty for three quarters, but it's not luck that Mitty takes over late.
Generally, the quicker team will draw more fouls, and sometimes if one team's plan is to try to use physicality to overcome a talent deficit -- which could have happened here -- then there will be a disparity in foul shots.
As for Mitty specifically, one of several major advantages the team has is depth, which is why they tend to pull away late in the game if they need to. Rolling in fresh, talented players throughout the game will wear down an opponent that relies heavily on just five or six players. So credit to any team that hang with Mitty for three quarters, but it's not luck that Mitty takes over late.
In a game that’s was played evenly with both teams playing the same style of play IMO the free throw count does say a lot about how the game was officiated. Both teams rolled in fresh talented players and the game was a much closer game than the score dictated. You’ve been around Basketball long enough to know that it’s possible for officials to dictate a game and the outcome. It’s a hard statement to make about this game if you have not seen it. Watch the game and then make your assessment. I’d be interested to know what you think.
Again how you see the game and the way it was officiated is your perception and opinion of what a foul is or should be. We could go back and fourth all day about that. Your right Jones was targeted. She’s one of the best players in the nation so a team should be aware of her defensively. However, there was no foul play. She just played against a team that got in her defensively. I didn’t see anybody low bridge her at all. Once the ball goes up on a lob play the defender does not have to let her catch the ball. The defender has a right to go after the ball just as much as the offensive player. Defenders hedging screens and bumping cutters is a part of basketball my friend.
But what about all the hand checks that LaRyan and every SHCP fan complained about every single time it was called. In the new rules of HS basketball you can not hand check. 2 hands on a ball handler, automatic call. You hand check once and your hand comes off real quick, no call... but as soon as that hand touches the ballhandler again, automatic call. Those were legit handcheck calls 35 feet away from the basket.. and like Clay said on the other thread, adjust to how the game is being called. It was consistent for both ends, and you have to know coming down from the city that the game is going to be called tighter than in the city. That is how it has always been. South bay teams will go into a game in the city knowing that it may get physical and a lot more than usual will play. City teams (and fans) should prepare for those calls to be made down south.
I didn't see the game. So I am not agreeing with you on the fact that the refs officiated the game more in one teams favor over another. What I am agreeing on is that there have been and are games where the refs ( I previously called it cheated which is not the politically correct term) Have called a game in one teams favor over another teams. It is possible. Putting on a uniform (no matter the kind, police, military, or ref, doesn't automatically make the person a good and honest person).For that matter that goes for any position a person holds. Humans will be humans even though there are some that think a uniform makes them honest, perfect or always right. Of course the excuse could be used that the refs where just calling more fouls on drives to the basket and one team drove more to the basket than the other team. Or hand checking or reaching in which I don't think either is a foul IMO, unless you make enough contact to totally disrupt the opponent. Reaching in and not touching a player is not a foul IMO. And hand checking just to know where the defender is and get a better feel to defend them IMO is not a foul unless there is too much contact. Enough to move the player off balance. Or in the direction you want them to go. But sometimes refs call both a foul anyway and say stop reaching in or making any kind of contact. Like in the NFL a ref can call holding on every play even though every play is not really holding. That limits the chances for the defender to help pressure the ball handler into making a mistake. ( But where I do agree with Clay is that the refs, whether calling the game for or against you, a team must adjust to the way the game is being called. That is why I say sometimes you can't do just enough to win. Sometimes you have to roll the refs up in the ass kicking and do more than enough to win. Of course that becomes close to impossible when the team you are playing actually might be a better team all around than your team may be. That makes pulling the upset nearly impossible. All you can do is adjust and give it your best. And be even better prepared for the team the next time. Because there really is no way to protest the way a game was officiated afterwards and get the game replayed or the results reversed.
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All I ask is for consistency. What’s a foul on one end should be a foul on another. A big issue is that often games are officiated differently by the individuals in that crew and they are not on the same page as a team themselves. I think another major issue for the WCAL is that they use two different associations to officiate their games. One association for the San Francisco area and another that covers the peninsula. I think when you have officials more familiar with a team and their style of play that might play a part in the way the game is officiated. None the less it was a good game and I’m looking forward to watching Mitty play in the playoffs.
True! And when being honest(which not everyone will be) we have to admit that some refs in some circumstances, are more of a fan of one team, one player, or one coach over another one. And that can impact the way they call a game as well, among a few other things. But you just have to face the fact the game, like life, is not always fair. Some have protections and privileges that others don't have. And some (particularly those who are benefiting ) will never see anything wrong unless the situations were reversed.
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Don't be a parent that thinks refs cheat...it's friggen high school basketball. Refs are more a fan of one team than the other? Are you really hearing yourself?? It is possible for officials to dictate a game, no doubt. But it's possible for a discrepancy of fouls because one team is more aggressive than the other. I a Dublin vs. SRV a game a few weeks ago where SRV went to the line 39 times and Dublin 4. SRV attacked the basket every time where as Dublin shot mostly from the outside. They ended up losing by single digits. What I'm trying to say is that it wasn't cheating or the refs liking San Ramon better, it was that they were more aggressive and took the ball to the rack and got fouled. I've seen the game and refs miss calls and did this night for BOTH teams. SHC played a great game...so don't ruin it with that conspiracy with the refs parent complaining crap. It really takes away from how well they played.
PS I replied to the wrong person...accidently hit reply to you and don't know how to change it.
Don't be a parent that thinks refs cheat...it's friggen high school basketball. Refs are more a fan of one team than the other? Are you really hearing yourself?? It is possible for officials to dictate a game, no doubt. But it's possible for a discrepancy of fouls because one team is more aggressive than the other. I a Dublin vs. SRV a game a few weeks ago where SRV went to the line 39 times and Dublin 4. SRV attacked the basket every time where as Dublin shot mostly from the outside. They ended up losing by single digits. What I'm trying to say is that it wasn't cheating or the refs liking San Ramon better, it was that they were more aggressive and took the ball to the rack and got fouled. I've seen the game and refs miss calls and did this night for BOTH teams. SHC played a great game...so don't ruin it with that conspiracy with the refs parent complaining crap. It really takes away from how well they played.
PS I replied to the wrong person...accidently hit reply to you and don't know how to change it.
I agree. But to say all refs are always honest, and all are always good, or every game is always called fairly, is not being realistic.
Even a good ref will tell you they may have called a bad game or two on occasion. What human can't have a bad day at the office?
To complain or use it as an excuse however is useless. It should be used as motivation is always my point.
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True. But the fact remains far too many people (not just online where there may only be 1 or 2 complaining) yell and complain about refs during a game to where it is almost hard to enjoy being a fan or observer. Some refs are good others not so good. And most are human so they will never be perfect in anyway. It is however a waste of time to complain about the way they have or are calling a game. Your coach is supposed to try to work the refs not parents or fans. Obviously some coaches work them better than some others. And some refs are harder for even coaches to lobby with for the next call.
oh, im not suggesting that refs are beyond reproach, far from it. But when a parent/fan comes on here and basically says it's the refs fault, to me that's crossing the line. Refs can influence the game, but again, like i said earlier, they don't miss shots, turn over the ball...players do. I watched the game and yeah there were some missed calls on both sides, but one team was more aggressive than the other and it really showed.
oh, im not suggesting that refs are beyond reproach, far from it. But when a parent/fan comes on here and basically says it's the refs fault, to me that's crossing the line. Refs can influence the game, but again, like i said earlier, they don't miss shots, turn over the ball...players do. I watched the game and yeah there were some missed calls on both sides, but one team was more aggressive than the other and it really showed.
If you can say that the officials can influence the game then you validate my point. No they don’t miss shots or turn the ball over. However, they do dictate the tempo of the game, control which teams in the bonus and shooting free throws etc. Example: SHCs starting pg picked up 2 fouls in the first minute of the game and had to sit the rest of the half. Those types of touch fouls were not called again until the end of the game. That effected their rotation, flow of the game etc. both teams pressed and picked up full court. That’s aggressive defense. However, one team was penalized more than the other for it. I’m not referring to “missed” calls when I say the game was dictated by the officials. I’m reffering to the calls that were made that were not made consistently for both teams. If the officials are going to allow a physical game then be consistent. If they are going to call touch fouls then be consistent. We can’t have one official callin touch fouls, one letting physical play take place then the other not calling anything is the opinion I’m voicing. I don’t have a horse in this race but I do know and can admit when officials dictate the outcome of the game. Would SHC have won that game if it was called different? Who knows and I’m not making that statement at all. The statement that I’m making is that the game was dictated by the officials and biased towards one team.
High school refs do not care who wins in the vast majority of cases, and studies of officiating in all sports shows that the only factor that matters is home-court advantage. If you have a big crowd cheering on your team, you will possibly get more calls than in an empty gym.
*High school refs are inconsistent, as all refs at all levels, but high school refs are more inconsistent because they are at the high school level. In the same way, high school players are more inconsistent than players at a higher level because they are high school players.
*It is absolutely true that an official can affect the outcome of the game, but it is equally true that the counter to shaky officiating is to be 10 points better. If you are not 10 points better, then the officials may decide the game against you -- but that's on you, not the refs.
*Whining about officiating is something one expects from parents who know little about the game and fans who see things through their partisan glasses. Most basketball games at all levels have plenty of bad/missed calls, and in most cases they balance out fairly closely. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes four three-pointers from your team roll around the rim and go out, and the other team banks in four perimeter shots. It's part of the game, no more and no less, and if you're good enough, you overcome it. Sometimes you're not good enough to overcome it, and you lose.
The solution is simple: Be better.
*High school refs are inconsistent, as all refs at all levels, but high school refs are more inconsistent because they are at the high school level. In the same way, high school players are more inconsistent than players at a higher level because they are high school players.
*It is absolutely true that an official can affect the outcome of the game, but it is equally true that the counter to shaky officiating is to be 10 points better. If you are not 10 points better, then the officials may decide the game against you -- but that's on you, not the refs.
*Whining about officiating is something one expects from parents who know little about the game and fans who see things through their partisan glasses. Most basketball games at all levels have plenty of bad/missed calls, and in most cases they balance out fairly closely. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes four three-pointers from your team roll around the rim and go out, and the other team banks in four perimeter shots. It's part of the game, no more and no less, and if you're good enough, you overcome it. Sometimes you're not good enough to overcome it, and you lose.
The solution is simple: Be better.
I think THIS is a great point. Not because of familiarity, but they absolutely call games differently. No question about it
How the hell do they control if a team is in the bonus? do they tell players to impede the offense's progress? Foul on a shot? We've all heard refs CAN'T call everything and I whole heartedly disagree. IF refs all a tight game, teams have to adjust. Just like if they're letting it go, then teams have to adjust. Refs blow calls all the time and if a ref says he/she doesn't, they're not good refs. If you want validation, Cityboy415, you're absolutely right.
How does this sound, really?? SHC got screwed and should have wont game BUT the officials likes Mitty more, respects Sue more, and was cheering for Mitty on the inside to win, and kept track of the lopsided number of fouls and FT's from both teams. AGAIN, I'm not saying it's you, but there are people on here that earnestly believe this...and they cray cray.
How the hell do they control if a team is in the bonus? do they tell players to impede the offense's progress? Foul on a shot? We've all heard refs CAN'T call everything and I whole heartedly disagree. IF refs all a tight game, teams have to adjust. Just like if they're letting it go, then teams have to adjust. Refs blow calls all the time and if a ref says he/she doesn't, they're not good refs. If you want validation, Cityboy415, you're absolutely right.
How does this sound, really?? SHC got screwed and should have wont game BUT the officials likes Mitty more, respects Sue more, and was cheering for Mitty on the inside to win, and kept track of the lopsided number of fouls and FT's from both teams. AGAIN, I'm not saying it's you, but there are people on here that earnestly believe this...and they cray cray.
I can’t speak for those who think in that manner and I’m not here to debate about that. Everyone sees the game through their own eyes and bases their opinions on that. Some of us have more experience than others and that often plays a role in the persons perception of the game. You are right we all know officials don’t call everything but we can also admit when omen team isn’t being called for foul shots that another team isn’t. Again, I’m not saying SHC would have won the game hand it been called differently because they still have to make the shots to do that. What I am saying isn’t that the officials dictated how that game was being played and that advantage went to Mitty.
No argument there.. but it seems as though fundamentally they have different training. I'm not complaining, it is what it is. Like I said, its always been that way. I remember as a player going to the city and being prepared for contact in the lane not always being called. No reason that city teams can't be prepared for a tighter called game in the south bay
Let's say it did. I was there and I don't think that's true, but let's say Mitty got a home court advantage from the refs. My response would be ... FINALLY! I've been watching WCAL games since the league started, and the one truth about refereeing in the WCAL has been that the SF referees are incredible HOMERS. You guys get the 10-point home-court advantage every time. It's well-known, even among the kids. So I'd be all for a single referee association, and leave the SF homer refs to their own incestuous little AAA section.
Your response as an adult is FINALLY? (You are an adult, right? I'm sure there are some kids on this message board as well.) My response as an adult is along the lines of the kids having a fair playing field. With the amount of dedication and hard work put into preparation by these student athletes I wouldn't personally root for one team to have an advantage over the other due to officiating. Again, just my opinion and I wouldn't expect you to approach the game the same way I do. It seems to me that both official associations are inconsistent and I couldn't say the officials in the city are any better than the ones on the peninsula. I don't believe in a 10 point home court advantage so I won't even address that comment. The same shots you can take about city officials and their little AAA section can be given to the peninsula officials and their little leagues as well. It would help if there were some type of way to hold officials accountable and possibly provide them with better training. The coaches in the WCAL on the peninsula don't event like the officials. However, they are stuck with them due to the fact that one group has monopolized the officiating and has a contract with the WCAL to officiate every sport in that area. I wish more former players would give back to the game as an official for a couple years. One factor is that a lot of these officials have never played the game and do not understand the flow of a game outside of the text book and training received.
