SHC @ Mitty Streaming

[Paytc]

Although I've chimed in on my feeling about refs being human. One thing I will say is it is frustrating when a team is already the under dog and/ or losing by 20 or 30 and on the bad side of a poorly officiated game. Even if it is just in their mind. Not to say the game in question was going that way as it sounds like the game was close until the 4th quarter. I have always not cared if the refs over look one or two touch fouls if a team ( my team or the other) is losing by 20 plus and clearly an under dog just to make it a game. You help the loser or weaker team. To make the game somewhat a challenge if need be. Just don't help them too much to totally swing the game toward the under dog. But when a team has little to no chance and they have to beat the refs it makes things far more challenging. And that many times creates frustration IMO. But you must find a way to display good sportsman/sportswoman attitudes regardless. And use it as motivation to prepare and come back stronger after halftime, or if and when a re-match is presented.

How the game is called does matter.

If a team like say SMS or Miramonte who are typically very aggressive have refs calling a game very close, even if it is consistent on both sides, the advantage goes to the least aggressive team. Because now one team can't play their style of play. So there can be an advantage given to one team over another. But again refs are a part of the game that only a coach coaching in the game can work to get the refs to give their team as level a playing field as possible. But some refs can't be influenced, while some can. And some coaches work them better than others.

 

[CityBoy415]

Although I've chimed in on my feeling about refs being human. One thing I will say is it is frustrating when a team is already the under dog and/ or losing by 20 or 30 and on the bad side of a poorly officiated game. Even if it is just in their mind. Not to say the game in question was going that way as it sounds like the game was close until the 4th quarter. I have always not cared if the refs over look one or two touch fouls if a team ( my team or the other) is losing by 20 plus and clearly an under dog just to make it a game. You help the loser or weaker team. To make the game somewhat a challenge if need be. Just don't help them too much to totally swing the game toward the under dog. But when a team has little to no chance and they have to beat the refs it makes things far more challenging. And that many times creates frustration IMO. But you must find a way to display good sportsman/sportswoman attitudes regardless. And use it as motivation to prepare and come back stronger after halftime, or if and when a re-match is presented.

How the game is called does matter.

If a team like say SMS or Miramonte who are typically very aggressive have refs calling a game very close, even if it is consistent on both sides, the advantage goes to the least aggressive team. Because now one team can't play their style of play. So there can be an advantage given to one team over another. But again refs are a part of the game that only a coach playing in the game can work to get the refs to give their team as level a playing field as possible. But some refs can't be influenced, while some can. And some coaches work them better than others.

They definitely are human and are prone to error as we all are. I just think they need to be better trained and on the same page with each other with out one official dominating the calls. I just hate to see these kids work so hard to face an unfair obstacle. All in all I just want to see good basketball on every level.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

My response as an adult ..

After all your juvenile posts, now you're an adult. Congratulations.

I don't believe in a 10 point home court advantage so I won't even address that comment..

Once you've been around the game as long as I have, you'll understand the 10-point advantage. You're just too blinded by having a daughter on the SHC team to see what's really going on.

The coaches in the WCAL on the peninsula don't event like the officials..

But the WCAL city coaches like the city officials. See the above comment about the 10-point advantage.

 

[Paytc]

They definitely are human and are prone to error as we all are. I just think they need to be better trained and on the same page with each other with out one official dominating the calls. I just hate to see these kids work so hard to face an unfair obstacle. All in all I just want to see good basketball on every level.

I prefer to see good basketball too.

Not sure refs get paid or trained enough to really be as good as we would all wish they would or could be. So we're unfortunately at their mercy. All you can do is hope you get a few good ones who work well together. I have talked with refs who say that certain calls were not their call to make but they would have made a different call than what was made if it were in there area. But they don't want to step on their partners toes too often. Even if it is the right thing to do. Then there are refs who don't have as clear a view as another ref who made a call that still persist enough to get a call over turned. So although they may try to be good and fair it's not always as easy to call the game as one sitting in the stands might think or even a coach might think. So we're forced to just lump the refs good or bad into the game plan and adjust to the way if unfolds.

I always say you can only control what you personally as an individual or player can control. You can't control your coach. You can't control the refs. You can't even control your own performance. But as a player you can control your attitude, your effort, and your decision making. And how you let things effect you. That's where the better and greatest separate themselves from those who have been handed things they didn't always necessarily earn or deserve. It's called doing more with less. Or less help. Having to be twice as good to get half as far. Some call it "Win Anyway". You can do that by not always allowing the clock, game, coach, ref,or final score, define whether or not your a championship caliber player. Because I have never met anyone who wins every time except ( the young homie) Floyd Money Mayweather Jr. And he's not playing in a team sport. Plus Money has a different mindset than most people have. And totally different conditioning. My experience being around the amateur before he turned professional helped me write and create the "Win Anyway" philosophy. Who really can win every time? Unless you're a game changer, game creator, or re-write the script to allow yourself to determine your own level of success. But Even then, even Money Mayweather Jr. better know when to hang the gloves up.

 

[OnBall8]

You guys get the 10-point home-court advantage every time

I have a good friend who used to coach in the WCAL for a long time and this is exactly what he used to say all the time.. not only referring to the refs but definitely taking that into account

 

[ClayK]

My experience -- and I've been at this is a while -- is that San Francisco officials are, top to bottom, not as consistent as those from other Bay Area associations, and have more of a tendency to favor the hometown teams than other officials.

That said, you know it going in, and you have to deal with the situation as it presents itself. Whining about it, or losing and saying the refs were part of the problem, is just deflecting from the main point: You weren't good enough to win the game that night.

 

[CityBoy415]

My experience -- and I've been at this is a while -- is that San Francisco officials are, top to bottom, not as consistent as those from other Bay Area associations, and have more of a tendency to favor the hometown teams than other officials.

That said, you know it going in, and you have to deal with the situation as it presents itself. Whining about it, or losing and saying the refs were part of the problem, is just deflecting from the main point: You weren't good enough to win the game that night.

I don't agree with you there but again it's all perception and an opinion based on how an individual views the game. I've been at this for a while myself as a player, official, and coach on various levels so I'm not speaking on something I don't have knowledge of. My knowledge of the rules also allows me to see when the officiating sways the game in one direction or another. A lot of coaches, parents and fans have no idea of the rules or changes but give an opinion based of their observation and opinion. This is not that. What I am speaking on is from my EXPERIENCE as a player, official, and coach. Not from a parent or fans perspective.

In terms of San Francisco officials, you can see the difference in officiating depending on the leagues of the schools competing. AAA officiating is a lot different than WCAL officiating and so is the talent level which is also a factor. Making an obvious observation and giving an opinion on it is a little different than whining or blaming the officiating for a loss. Nor am I blaming the officials for that loss. The ONLY statement I am making is that the game was not called consistently, which is obvious to me. No team should have to go into a game "knowing" that they will be playing 5 vs 8. Again, I don't have any horses in the race but I do have 20/20 vision and can see when a game was dictated by the officiating not being consistent instead of players and coaches in that game determining the outcome. I'd make the same statement if SHC had won the game and the officiating was not consistent.

Again, would SHC have won that game if the officials had called it consistently for both teams? Who knows. They still have to put the ball in the basket and get stops. What I do know is that it wasn't called consistently.

 

[ClayK]

>The ONLY statement I am making is that the game was not called consistently, which is obvious to me. No team should have to go into a game "knowing" that they will be playing 5 vs 8.

"Playing 5 vs. 8" sounds like whining to me, but again, that's perception.

"Unable to adjust physically and mentally to the style of officiating and some calls that went against them" sounds better to me, but that's perception.

 

[CityBoy415]

>The ONLY statement I am making is that the game was not called consistently, which is obvious to me. No team should have to go into a game "knowing" that they will be playing 5 vs 8.

"Playing 5 vs. 8" sounds like whining to me, but again, that's perception.

"Unable to adjust physically and mentally to the style of officiating and some calls that went against them" sounds better to me, but that's perception.

Right and that’s why it’s YOUR opinion and YOUR perception. We all have our own view and perception. What makes yours better than anyone else’s? I didn’t mention anything about going into a game knowing you will have to deal with that situation (the officials which is 5 vs 8) as it presents it’s self, you did. So I’m not sure where your going there. I’m also not here to tailor my voice in any way that sounds better to you or anyone else. So what “sounds better” to YOU is if no concern to me. I’m here to talk basketball not what sounds better to you or anyone else.

Again, my perception is that the game was not called consistently by the officials and that that has some relevance on the outcome of the game. That has nothing to do with adjusting physically and mentally. Teams have no choice but to adjust as the game has to be played either way.

 

[OnBall8]

Again, my perception is that the game was not called consistently by the officials and that that has some relevance on the outcome of the game.

Just because you perceive something does not make it true.. eye witness accounts of the same event will always differ..

 

[Paytc]

Not to take sides just to share my opinion.You're both right IMO. I think everyone should be able to express their own opinion and viewpoint regardless to whether others agree or not. Even if it is not always a popular stance or opinion. I'm definitely that guy at times. I think we all have been at some point. One should be able to vent and express or share an experience coming from their own unique viewpoint. Others can take it or leave it. Every circumstance is different. As is what everyone takes away from them. How many other folks out there were at the game in question? Who are willing to share what they took away from the experience? Typically there is a bit of truth in most unpopular positions. Just not enough courageous people in the world to be unpopular for what they feel is worth defending.You can't tell another person how they must feel about something they have experienced for themselves. That's not the american way. Everyone doesn't have to be politically correct or agree with popular norms of behavior. This is not CNN or Fox news where a limited amount of opinions are shoved upon society as if they're the only truths. And on the flip side some things are a waste of time trying to hammer across to an audience that the majority ( at least those that will speak up) is not gonna agree with you anyway. And trying to control what refs do whether for or against you is a waste of time as well. You can share your opinion though in hopes that it will have an impact on refs out there who may be viewing what you write or speak about. I just sincerely doubt it will have any impact. Players just need to keep working hard to improve win or lose. And control the things they have control over. The refs are not one of them. Refs are like games and opinions. You have good and not so good ones. And like opinions and games refs aren't going anywhere. So we gotta live with the good and bad ones.

Thank you both for sharing your perspectives. I think the world and every comment board needs a variety of opinions. Mr. opinionated himself signing off. LOL.......

 

[CityBoy415]

Not to take sides just to share my opinion.You're both right IMO. I think everyone should be able to express their own opinion and viewpoint regardless to whether others agree or not. Even if it is not always a popular stance or opinion. I'm definitely that guy at times. I think we all have been at some point. One should be able to vent and express or share an experience coming from their own unique viewpoint. Others can take it or leave it. Every circumstance is different. As is what everyone takes away from them. How many other folks out there were at the game in question? Who are willing to share what they took away from the experience? Typically there is a bit of truth in most unpopular positions. Just not enough courageous people in the world to be unpopular for what they feel is worth defending.You can't tell another person how they must feel about something they have experienced for themselves. That's not the american way. Everyone doesn't have to be politically correct or agree with popular norms of behavior. This is not CNN or Fox news where a limited amount of opinions are shoved upon society as if they're the only truths. And on the flip side some things are a waste of time trying to hammer across to an audience that the majority ( at least those that will speak up) is not gonna agree with you anyway. And trying to control what refs do whether for or against you is a waste of time as well. You can share your opinion though in hopes that it will have an impact on refs out there who may be viewing what you write or speak about. I just sincerely doubt it will have any impact. Players just need to keep working hard to improve win or lose. And control the things they have control over. The refs are not one of them. Refs are like games and opinions. You have good and not so good ones. And like opinions and games refs aren't going anywhere. So we gotta live with the good and bad ones.

Thank you both for sharing your perspectives. I think the world and every comment board needs a variety of opinions. Mr. opinionated himself signing off. LOL.......

Lol well written. I’m not here to hammer home my opinion. I’m here to talk Basketball and share my view point. Some might agree some might not. I’m ok with agreeing to disagree. It just seems like some folks on this messageboard go a little to far when they don’t agree with someone. “my experience- and I’ve been at this awhile”, lol is laughable. So nobody else on this message board has experience to validate their opinion? To the point where the conversation shifts from the topic of the original post to what I should be saying or how I should be saying it because someone thinks they have more experience than me? However, Opninions are like _______s, everybody has one ‍♂️ ....but your right so on to the next thread

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Lol well written. I’m not here to hammer home my opinion. I’m here to talk Basketball and share my view point. Some might agree some might not. I’m ok with agreeing to disagree. It just seems like some folks on this messageboard go a little to far when they don’t agree with someone. “my experience- and I’ve been at this awhile”, lol is laughable. So nobody else on this message board has experience to validate their opinion? To the point where the conversation shifts from the topic of the original post to what I should be saying or how I should be saying it because someone thinks they have more experience than me? However, Opninions are like _______s, everybody has one ‍♂️ ....but your right so on to the next thread

Just food for thought: IF you're really here just to talk basketball and really know then game, then you know that officiating is one of the hardest sports jobs around. They can NEVER make the right call because coaches and parents of players that the call goes against, most of the time, thanks it's the wrong call. lol Also, saying that a team is playing 8 on 5 ONLY sounds like sour grapes and that stupid parent mentality of refs cheat. You hear it all the time: "how much are they paying you ref??" I want to go over and choke parents that say that crap...so childish.

In short, we should acknowledge that it was a good, tough and physical game. And you're right, you're entitled to your opinion as is Clay, Paytc, Southbay, Citibank (man I miss they), and whoever else wants to write. All I'm saying is that when people say refs cheat for one team, this ref is buddy buddy with this coach, WCAL refs are better than AAA refs, or playing 5 on 8, those are things whinny parents say when they lose a game when in reality, kids or coaches didn't make adjustments.

 

[CityBoy415]

Just food for thought: IF you're really here just to talk basketball and really know then game, then you know that officiating is one of the hardest sports jobs around. They can NEVER make the right call because coaches and parents of players that the call goes against, most of the time, thanks it's the wrong call. lol Also, saying that a team is playing 8 on 5 ONLY sounds like sour grapes and that stupid parent mentality of refs cheat. You hear it all the time: "how much are they paying you ref??" I want to go over and choke parents that say that crap...so childish.

In short, we should acknowledge that it was a good, tough and physical game. And you're right, you're entitled to your opinion as is Clay, Paytc, Southbay, Citibank (man I miss they), and whoever else wants to write. All I'm saying is that when people say refs cheat for one team, this ref is buddy buddy with this coach, WCAL refs are better than AAA refs, or playing 5 on 8, those are things whinny parents say when they lose a game when in reality, kids or coaches didn't make adjustments.

You must not be reading the entire thread or picking and choosing what you want to respond to. Again, the statement that I made was in reference to officials calling the game consistently in general. In response to Clay’s statement that you should know going in that you have to deal with that situation (the officials) and be prepared for it triggered my response that no team should have to go into a game with the frame of thinking they will be playing 5 vs 8. Aside from that yes WCAL officials are better than AAA officials because they asign the better officials to the WCAL. That’s a FACT and has nothing to do with whining. Again, I don’t have any horses in the race so my opinion isn’t biased but is just that MY opinion. Just as how you think it sounds or relates is your opinion. I was at the game and watched the game again because it was a good game and that’s my view on the outcome. Just the same as NBA officials have been found to alter games or call games a particular Way against a team let’s not sit here and act like it doesn’t happen.

 

[colhenrylives]

Your opinion is as good as anyone's. Nobody is perfect. Not the refs, not the coaches, not the players, not the parents, heck, not even us. Maybe most of all, not us.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Your opinion is as good as anyone's. Nobody is perfect. Not the refs, not the coaches, not the players, not the parents, heck, not even us. Maybe most of all, not us.

wait, but my parents said I was!?