SHP is for real and I do not think there is a debate. To all the people out there who said they did not have a chance, I told you not to doubt them and they are always in the game who ever they play. LG played an outstanding game and a few plays away from playing Bell. I think if the game continued and they continued to pound it with Wood it would probably been a different outcome. Burr-Kirven has changed my mind, and I think he is the #1 player in CCS.
SHP
- Thread starter CCSman1
- Start date
I'm sure their a good CCS team, What does that mean for a State bowl?? I don't see Bellermine or SHP getting a shot if Grant wins outright.
D1 Bowl Play-in probably -
Folsom versus
Grant - if Grant wins SJS D2 (Sacred Heart Prep has a shot but probably not although was in state bowl last year)
SHP (would be chosen over St Mary's if St Mary's defeats Grant)
Bells could be chosen over St Mary's if St Mary's defeats Grant - (Bells have one more loss but also have a win over common opponent that St Mary's lost to)
St Mary's will have a shot if Bellarmine wins CCS Open, but see above. SM would have only one loss, but Bells defeated common opponent.
The interesting case will be if both St Mary's and Bellarmine both won. That will be a discussion. I could see some discussion if SHP and Grant both win, but think it would be pretty tough to pick against .
Folsom versus
Grant - if Grant wins SJS D2 (Sacred Heart Prep has a shot but probably not although was in state bowl last year)
SHP (would be chosen over St Mary's if St Mary's defeats Grant)
Bells could be chosen over St Mary's if St Mary's defeats Grant - (Bells have one more loss but also have a win over common opponent that St Mary's lost to)
St Mary's will have a shot if Bellarmine wins CCS Open, but see above. SM would have only one loss, but Bells defeated common opponent.
The interesting case will be if both St Mary's and Bellarmine both won. That will be a discussion. I could see some discussion if SHP and Grant both win, but think it would be pretty tough to pick against .
NorCalSportsFan posted on 11/30/2014...
D1 Bowl Play-in probably -
Folsom versus
Grant - if Grant wins SJS D2 (Sacred Heart Prep has a shot but probably not although was in state bowl last year)
_______________________________________________________________________________
Hate to say it but SHP has a good shot at facing Folsom if they win out. If both Grant and SHP win out the nod would most likely go to SHP. I would be totally shocked if the powers that be doesn't put the CCS (Open) Champ against the SJS (D-1) Champ. I was at the regional game last year when SHP destroyed a very athletic/physical El Cerrito team which had three D-1 players on it. If Grant boat races St. Mary's and leaves no doubt that they are the best team to upset Folsom then they deserve to get in. But I don't think a close win does it for them if SHP beats the Bell's. If it's about the money the game will be Grant vs Folsom @ Sac State or UC Davis..
D1 Bowl Play-in probably -
Folsom versus
Grant - if Grant wins SJS D2 (Sacred Heart Prep has a shot but probably not although was in state bowl last year)
_______________________________________________________________________________
Hate to say it but SHP has a good shot at facing Folsom if they win out. If both Grant and SHP win out the nod would most likely go to SHP. I would be totally shocked if the powers that be doesn't put the CCS (Open) Champ against the SJS (D-1) Champ. I was at the regional game last year when SHP destroyed a very athletic/physical El Cerrito team which had three D-1 players on it. If Grant boat races St. Mary's and leaves no doubt that they are the best team to upset Folsom then they deserve to get in. But I don't think a close win does it for them if SHP beats the Bell's. If it's about the money the game will be Grant vs Folsom @ Sac State or UC Davis..
Good analysis - But I do think there is a strong likelihood of SHP being chosen over Grant if both win out. Although, I believe Grant is the stronger team of the two, the CIF committee will have to make a judgment call. And I think SHP has a very good argument in hand assuming Salinas and Terra Nova win their championship games, which on paper those teams should win. So assuming SHP can get by Bellarmine (a very tall order) and Grant gets by SM and the other factors mentioned above happen, SHP will have two section champions in its schedule and Grant will have none. This will probably be the deciding factor for the CIF Committee.
I can't figure out what everyone is looking at when comparing Bellarmine and SHP with Grant and SM.
The Facts:
1) Cal Hi has Grant and SM ranked above the Bells and SHP. Therefore the winner of that game will still be ranked higher.
2) Max Preps has both Grant and SM ranked way above both.
3) SHP undefeated with that schedule is exactly what Tracy, Bellarmine, Pitt and SM would have done with that schedule. The only difference would be the scores.
SHP beat
#6266th ranked team by 12
#4303 by 7
#1803 by 6
#6013 team by 14
#8207 by 42(finally a blow out).
If you want to play in the Bowl games you need a pre-season schedule that earns it. This is the softest pre-season anyone could have put together. SM, Tracy , Pitt and Bellarmine would have won all these games by an average of 30+ per game.
Example:
Saint Mary's against similar ranked
# 3754 32 - 0
# 3985 45 - 14
# 4016 55 - 12
# 5960 56 - 10
# 6068 46 - 14
oh yeah and #780 56-14.
Grant has smashed everyone except Elk Grove which is a very good team that is still ranked higher then SHP by a long ways.
CIF would be clueless to send SHP.
4) Strength of schedule: SHP 16.2 and that is because of the playoffs. Bellarmine has a 32.1, the toughest of the 7 teams outside of DLS.
The bottom line is the Grant vs. SM winner should be in no matter what.
The one thing I don't like is the way it is set up this year. The SoCal teams have far bigger schools and the state Championship should represent the best of the best.
DLS in the Open
Folsom D1
Grant/SM winner D2
Bell/SHP winner D3
Now that would be a great representation of NorCal!!!
And for the bashing I just did on SHP, I am not saying they are not a very good team. I am pointing out the facts of the body of work. It just does not read like the rest of the class.
The Facts:
1) Cal Hi has Grant and SM ranked above the Bells and SHP. Therefore the winner of that game will still be ranked higher.
2) Max Preps has both Grant and SM ranked way above both.
3) SHP undefeated with that schedule is exactly what Tracy, Bellarmine, Pitt and SM would have done with that schedule. The only difference would be the scores.
SHP beat
#6266th ranked team by 12
#4303 by 7
#1803 by 6
#6013 team by 14
#8207 by 42(finally a blow out).
If you want to play in the Bowl games you need a pre-season schedule that earns it. This is the softest pre-season anyone could have put together. SM, Tracy , Pitt and Bellarmine would have won all these games by an average of 30+ per game.
Example:
Saint Mary's against similar ranked
# 3754 32 - 0
# 3985 45 - 14
# 4016 55 - 12
# 5960 56 - 10
# 6068 46 - 14
oh yeah and #780 56-14.
Grant has smashed everyone except Elk Grove which is a very good team that is still ranked higher then SHP by a long ways.
CIF would be clueless to send SHP.
4) Strength of schedule: SHP 16.2 and that is because of the playoffs. Bellarmine has a 32.1, the toughest of the 7 teams outside of DLS.
The bottom line is the Grant vs. SM winner should be in no matter what.
The one thing I don't like is the way it is set up this year. The SoCal teams have far bigger schools and the state Championship should represent the best of the best.
DLS in the Open
Folsom D1
Grant/SM winner D2
Bell/SHP winner D3
Now that would be a great representation of NorCal!!!
And for the bashing I just did on SHP, I am not saying they are not a very good team. I am pointing out the facts of the body of work. It just does not read like the rest of the class.
So you think the CIF selection committee will punish SHP as the CCS Open winner in retailation for CCS' policy of forcing a natural DIII to play (and win) in Open? Hmmm... I hear sour grapes. The same should have been true, then, in 2010 when CCS forced a natural DII Palo Alto into Open. But the CIF Committee did select PA and they WON SBG DI.
Money aside, beware what you wish for. If you think Granite put a beat down on the CCS/Open winner SI two years ago, Folsom will make an even bigger statement what the CCS is to them. So go ahead and present your case for whichever team wins the CCS Open, I will definitely be there to see that! Folsom 70 CCS 7......The 70 will be at the end of 3rd Qtr Folsom pulls starters then puts in the JV players on defense and allows CCS a score.
You have cited many of the reasons I believe Grant is the better team. But historically the CIF Committee has made their decisions on a different basis than you have outlined in your post. In 2008, the CIF Committee went against all the factors you cite in preference of Grant over DLS. It was clear the committee went with Grant because of their better record and opponents that had won sectional or state championships. All the polls, ranking and rating services had DLS higher than Grant just you outline for Grant this year.
This year, We have 4 games still to be to be played and each have to end up like I state in my post for there to be a CIF decision point that leans toward SHP over Grant. The only difference between 2008 the DLS/Grant decision and the possible Grant/SHP decision is that both teams in 2014 will be undefeated. If the CIF committee remains consistant, they will chose SHP over Grant because SHP will have 2 sectional champions as opponents and Grant will have none.
Its my opinion that the CIF will not have to make this decision because I don't think SHP will beat Bellarmine. If Bellarmine wins, I fall back to NorCalSports analyses.
Everyone should consider the #1 thing the committee will consider ... $$$.
Folsom v. SHP will draw poorly. Folsom v. Grant could be a sellout. That game drew 22K in 2010. I'd be absolutely shocked if SHP was selected over Grant. Even more shocked than Pops would be if Folsom was selected over DLS for Open. Grant would have every factor in their favor, including the almighty $$ factor.
First things first. Grant, Folsom and SHP still have 1 more game to win.
FBAddict its about who the better team is period....If you look at SHP/Grant on paper, in person, stats, roster its Grant hands down. They are bigger, faster, and have an Open championship under their belt. You can put whatever stats you want out there. I personally love the new CIF format, there are less politics. The CCS/WCAL will have to change the way they do business if they want a shot. If for some reason Grant loses or gets screwed and SHP gets the nod, it won't matter, for the third year in a row the SJS will own whatever team the CCS puts forward. My advice for the CCS is to scrap the Open and maybe go for a lower division CIF bowl game.
The CCS sectional champions have little credibility outside of the Open, since the "top 8" teams get moved up to the open, making any divisional champion at best a 9th place winner. So, dont think they will use that. Grant will get picked over SHP if they both win!
I dont think punishment will come into play at all, nor is there sour grapes here. Simply, people will view SHP as a great D3 team vs Grant a great D1/D2 team.
In 2010, the CIF team chose between an undefeated PA team who with 1900+ students falls in D1 or D2, vs a 1-loss PG team. PA's path to the Open was also much tougher IMO. So, not an equal comparison at all.
Can you post a link to an article that says the Central is moving to NorCal next year? I know a lot of people have stated that, but I haven't seen any articles stating it. What I have seen is something stating that the Central will be split between the two regions, based on relative numbers. I believe it said that CS D-I was going to NorCal, but D-II was staying in SoCal.
I'd love to see a concrete declaration.
"We disagree."
Signed, 2013 El Cerrito team.
By the way...
The 5th place WCAL team, Mitty, beat NCS D-I finalist, Pittsburg. The Monarchs are a CCS D-II finalist.
The 6th place WCAL team, St. Ignatius, beat SJS D-I finalist, St. Mary's and NCS D-III finalist, Marin Catholic. The Wildcats are a CCS D-III finalist.
"We agree!"
Signed, 2010 Corona Centennial, Gardena Serra, and 2013 El Cerrito teams.
Oh, wait.
So... because Grant won an Open championship in 2008, they're a better choice in 2014?
Are the Sacrament area schools really failing their community that bad?
I could not really find anything. It must be a urban legend that has made its way around the forums. I did find this on the CS forum but it still is not definitive.
"The Central Section will have to wait another year before it will have a
chance to compete in the Northern California Regional State Playoffs.
Central
Section commission Jim Crichlow said on Friday the California
Interscholastic Federation's governing board will not be able to
consider the move of the Central Section from Southern California to
Northern California until the spring at the earliest and more likely not
until next fall. That means if the CIF's federated council approves the
move, Central Section teams will not begin competing in the NorCal
playoffs until the 2015-2016 school year.
It was hoped the
federated council would consider the move at its meeting this weekend,
which would have moved up the Central Section's move to the NorCal
playoffs to 2014-2015. But now the Central Section will have to compete
in the SoCal playoffs for at least one more year as it will stay in
Southern California for 2014-2015.
The Central Section's
governing body overwhelmingly approved the move to Northern California
at its meeting last fall. The Central Section's eventual expected move
to the north would leave just three sections - Los Angeles, Southern and
San Diego - in Southern California while Northern California would have
seven sections.
The Central Section's eventual move figures to
give Valley teams a better chance to compete in the state playoffs,
especially in football and basketball. In recent years, the Central
Section has fared better at the state level in football.
Washington
Union became the first Valley team to be chosen for the state playoffs
in football in 2011 and was joined by Clovis North in 2012. In 2013, two
section teams - Bakersfield High and Bakersfield Christian - were
chosen for the state playoffs. Bakersfield finished as a state champion
and Bakersfield Christian finished as a state runner-up.
But it's
been much tougher in the SoCal playoffs for Valley teams in boys and
girls basketball in which just a handful of section teams were able to
advance past the first round in 2013.
On Friday, the federated council did approve a proposal to begin holding State Swimming and Diving Championships, in 2015."
So for the first time I am actually looking at the teams capable of playing for state.
North Section CCS NCS
Sutter d3 Bellarmine/SHP d1 De La Salle Open
Enterprise d2 Mitty/St Francis d2 Clayton/Concord
Aptos/St Ignatius d3 Campolindo/Marin(is bubble team if they win) D3
Salesian D4
SJS OAL
Folsom D1 McClymonds D4
Grant/St Mary's D1
Oakdale/Inderkum D2(I think not sure)
Central Catholic D4
Capitol Christian D4
you figure in something solely determined by politics and not on field play, each section will need representation. so to understand one selection you have to understand all selections. So when one team from a section gets in another team from that section gets knocked out.
DLS open hard to argue that the spartans aren't the open bid
Folsom D1 hard to argue that the Bulldogs don't belong here
Grant vs Bellarmine/Sacred Heart D1
Oakdale/Inderkum vs Clayton/Concord vs Mitty/St Francis D2
Sutter vs Campolindo vs SI/Aptos D3
Central Catholic D4 two straight state championships and they play in one of the best leagues in Nor Cal hard to argue against CC
Capitol Christian vs Salesians vs Mcclymonds D4
I just hate the short memories, yes the Open has been lumped the last two seasons and yes it is an outdated concept. The Bellermine 09 team was one of the best teams nor cal has seen in the last 15 years Older Carter Samuels, Amanam and Clay. Three state title games three loses, but they were always competitive. Not to mention a missed field goal away from beating Sparta in OT. They do not match up well versus Folsom, this season.
Sacred Heart Prep is growing on me, I am starting to drink the cool aid, it is still a bad match up for them against Folsom.
What I am saying is a CCS team is going to have to make it some where. Sutter can't be the odd team out they will be the lone Northern section rep. Do not think Enterprise has a strong enough resume for a loaded D2 pool.
Two teams most likely to be left out are St Mary's if they win and Marin Catholic. Both teams have loses to St Ignatius, gives them little room for argument
so when you look at all sections Grant deserves the nod, but that would leave the CCS with no reps, so that means they would have to get the nod in D2 St Francis or Mitty
decisions decisions, ugly ugly
Time for a playoff
This post was edited on 11/30 7:30 PM by bayside101
North Section CCS NCS
Sutter d3 Bellarmine/SHP d1 De La Salle Open
Enterprise d2 Mitty/St Francis d2 Clayton/Concord
Aptos/St Ignatius d3 Campolindo/Marin(is bubble team if they win) D3
Salesian D4
SJS OAL
Folsom D1 McClymonds D4
Grant/St Mary's D1
Oakdale/Inderkum D2(I think not sure)
Central Catholic D4
Capitol Christian D4
you figure in something solely determined by politics and not on field play, each section will need representation. so to understand one selection you have to understand all selections. So when one team from a section gets in another team from that section gets knocked out.
DLS open hard to argue that the spartans aren't the open bid
Folsom D1 hard to argue that the Bulldogs don't belong here
Grant vs Bellarmine/Sacred Heart D1
Oakdale/Inderkum vs Clayton/Concord vs Mitty/St Francis D2
Sutter vs Campolindo vs SI/Aptos D3
Central Catholic D4 two straight state championships and they play in one of the best leagues in Nor Cal hard to argue against CC
Capitol Christian vs Salesians vs Mcclymonds D4
I just hate the short memories, yes the Open has been lumped the last two seasons and yes it is an outdated concept. The Bellermine 09 team was one of the best teams nor cal has seen in the last 15 years Older Carter Samuels, Amanam and Clay. Three state title games three loses, but they were always competitive. Not to mention a missed field goal away from beating Sparta in OT. They do not match up well versus Folsom, this season.
Sacred Heart Prep is growing on me, I am starting to drink the cool aid, it is still a bad match up for them against Folsom.
What I am saying is a CCS team is going to have to make it some where. Sutter can't be the odd team out they will be the lone Northern section rep. Do not think Enterprise has a strong enough resume for a loaded D2 pool.
Two teams most likely to be left out are St Mary's if they win and Marin Catholic. Both teams have loses to St Ignatius, gives them little room for argument
so when you look at all sections Grant deserves the nod, but that would leave the CCS with no reps, so that means they would have to get the nod in D2 St Francis or Mitty
decisions decisions, ugly ugly
Time for a playoff
This post was edited on 11/30 7:30 PM by bayside101
Bayside- Do you think they would take a 4 loss team from the CCS? I know losses are losses, but if Mitty beats St. Francis in the CCS D2 championship would those losses mean an automatic boot? Mitty does have a nice resume with wins over Pitt ( who is playing De La Salle),and just knocked off Freedom, Serra( eliminated from the CCS open), SI ( playing for a division 3 title.) Their three losses in the WCAL were by a combined 5 points!
This post was edited on 11/30 5:27 PM by PAL95
This post was edited on 11/30 5:27 PM by PAL95
Cal 14 --
After all these years, the SJS now has it's own version of mtnjohn on the board --- and his name is cappyjohnson. I suppose 'john' appearing in a screen name should be a red flag to all of us going forward.
After all these years, the SJS now has it's own version of mtnjohn on the board --- and his name is cappyjohnson. I suppose 'john' appearing in a screen name should be a red flag to all of us going forward.
not really sure, I know the WCAL is a brutal league, I know Mitty beat Pittsburg. I know Oakdale and Inderkum are both very deserving teams, I also know that Clayton Valley and Concord are very deserving teams. I know any combination of those six teams will make for a heck of a game.
I know I watch a lot of football and Sutter is one of the better teams I have seen play this season.
I know Capitol Christian, Mcclymonds and Salesian if they win are all very deserving teams. Can't tell you how impressive Capitol Christian was against a good Modesto Christian team. Salesians is a young team two best players are sophomores I get the feeling they will be back in this situation once in the next two seasons. They should schedule Central Catholic for a week three game on a home and home over the next two seasons.
So if the NCS has DLS and Campolindo and Clayton/Concord, The SJS Has Folsom, Grant and Central Catholic, the Northern Section has Sutter
Mac then becomes the loan OAL representative
the CCS no representatives just doesn't seem quite right. Only options are SI/Aptos Bellarmine/Sacred Heart Prep and St Francis/Mitty
Just seems if Grant is in, then the winner of Inderkum/Oakdale is the compromise. If the open winner gets the nod, then the winner of Oakdale/Inderkum game is a no brainer.
If Campo loses then SI or Aptos can get the nod and again Inderkum/Oakdale in,
Again if Grant loses it all lines up just fine, the open winner goes in and Oakdale/Inderkum back in
As a fan I know Grant V Folsom is a game I want to see.
This post was edited on 11/30 8:43 PM by bayside101
I know I watch a lot of football and Sutter is one of the better teams I have seen play this season.
I know Capitol Christian, Mcclymonds and Salesian if they win are all very deserving teams. Can't tell you how impressive Capitol Christian was against a good Modesto Christian team. Salesians is a young team two best players are sophomores I get the feeling they will be back in this situation once in the next two seasons. They should schedule Central Catholic for a week three game on a home and home over the next two seasons.
So if the NCS has DLS and Campolindo and Clayton/Concord, The SJS Has Folsom, Grant and Central Catholic, the Northern Section has Sutter
Mac then becomes the loan OAL representative
the CCS no representatives just doesn't seem quite right. Only options are SI/Aptos Bellarmine/Sacred Heart Prep and St Francis/Mitty
Just seems if Grant is in, then the winner of Inderkum/Oakdale is the compromise. If the open winner gets the nod, then the winner of Oakdale/Inderkum game is a no brainer.
If Campo loses then SI or Aptos can get the nod and again Inderkum/Oakdale in,
Again if Grant loses it all lines up just fine, the open winner goes in and Oakdale/Inderkum back in
As a fan I know Grant V Folsom is a game I want to see.
This post was edited on 11/30 8:43 PM by bayside101
What do you know about the team that Sutter played in that game/those games? Did you watch other games with them to know whether or not they're any good. Any team could look like world-beaters against inferior competition.
No one has anyone at this point. It's a very big stretch to think that Sutter gets in with their schedule. Grant has to get by St. Mary's, which will not be an easy task.
Overall, I think you're overthinking this and making it far too political.
If the CIF has a goal of having the most competitive games and the most deserving teams in its bowl games and a committee is reviewing the resumes of each of the teams I find it hard to believe the CCS is going to be represented at all.
DLS and Folsom are obviously the top two.
Max Preps state rankings:
DLS>>>>>>> 3 (Cal Hi Nor Cal #1)
Folsom>>>> 8 (Cal HI #2)
Grant>>>>> 17 (Cal Hi #3)
St. Mary's>> 22 (Cal Hi #4)
Pitt>>>>>>> 36 (Cal Hi #8)
Bellarmine>> 43 (Cal hi # 6)
Tracy>>>>> 51 (Cal Hi #7)
SHP>>>>>> 70 (Cal Hi #5)
So lets take DLS vs. Pitt: DLS wins they are in the Open: Pitt wins and they have the biggest win of all these teams on their resume and are now in the discussion.
Folsom vs. Tracy: Folsom wins and are in Nor Cal Bowl, simple. Tracy wins still tough sell to get them past this. To many teams to jump over. And a 20 point loss to St. Mary's.
Grant vs. St. Mary's: Grant wins there is no discussion to be had. They play Folsom and if that is not the case the entire CIF selection committee should be fired. If St. Mary's wins their resume is so much better then the Bells and SHP. Quality wins, the teams they beat and there one loss all went far into the playoffs. And if SM beats Grant there ranking are going to rise significantly. Bellarmine and SHP will be so far behind SM in all rankings it would be a disgrace to move an inferior team ahead of them.
Bellarmine vs. SHP: Bellarmine has played a tough schedule and with a win should get some play but the 2 losses will probably hurt. SHP has played a cupcake schedule. League is league so that is not the issue. The preseason schedule is a joke and that is on the coaching staff. If you want to put your team in a place to be considered in todays world you need to play solid competition in your preseason. Any average team can go undefeated given a weak schedule. SHP's preseason consisted of 5 teams with an overall record of 27 and 28. Of the 5 only one is ranked above 4300 in the nation and that is an 8 and 4 Salinas team that is ranked 1830. The victories are a big ? also. Playing below average teams and winning by 12, 7, 6, 14 and finally by 42. SHP just does not have the resume to be in this conversation. Of the 8 teams in the finals here SHP is dead last in all aspects that matter.
So if the choices are based on facts this is how is fills out. If it is all about politics then I guess SHP gets in with a win.
This post was edited on 11/30 10:37 PM by cvhl
DLS and Folsom are obviously the top two.
Max Preps state rankings:
DLS>>>>>>> 3 (Cal Hi Nor Cal #1)
Folsom>>>> 8 (Cal HI #2)
Grant>>>>> 17 (Cal Hi #3)
St. Mary's>> 22 (Cal Hi #4)
Pitt>>>>>>> 36 (Cal Hi #8)
Bellarmine>> 43 (Cal hi # 6)
Tracy>>>>> 51 (Cal Hi #7)
SHP>>>>>> 70 (Cal Hi #5)
So lets take DLS vs. Pitt: DLS wins they are in the Open: Pitt wins and they have the biggest win of all these teams on their resume and are now in the discussion.
Folsom vs. Tracy: Folsom wins and are in Nor Cal Bowl, simple. Tracy wins still tough sell to get them past this. To many teams to jump over. And a 20 point loss to St. Mary's.
Grant vs. St. Mary's: Grant wins there is no discussion to be had. They play Folsom and if that is not the case the entire CIF selection committee should be fired. If St. Mary's wins their resume is so much better then the Bells and SHP. Quality wins, the teams they beat and there one loss all went far into the playoffs. And if SM beats Grant there ranking are going to rise significantly. Bellarmine and SHP will be so far behind SM in all rankings it would be a disgrace to move an inferior team ahead of them.
Bellarmine vs. SHP: Bellarmine has played a tough schedule and with a win should get some play but the 2 losses will probably hurt. SHP has played a cupcake schedule. League is league so that is not the issue. The preseason schedule is a joke and that is on the coaching staff. If you want to put your team in a place to be considered in todays world you need to play solid competition in your preseason. Any average team can go undefeated given a weak schedule. SHP's preseason consisted of 5 teams with an overall record of 27 and 28. Of the 5 only one is ranked above 4300 in the nation and that is an 8 and 4 Salinas team that is ranked 1830. The victories are a big ? also. Playing below average teams and winning by 12, 7, 6, 14 and finally by 42. SHP just does not have the resume to be in this conversation. Of the 8 teams in the finals here SHP is dead last in all aspects that matter.
So if the choices are based on facts this is how is fills out. If it is all about politics then I guess SHP gets in with a win.
This post was edited on 11/30 10:37 PM by cvhl
Just took a look at the rosters of Grant, SM, Bellarmine and SHP:
Grant is huge: Eight linemen with weights of 285, 290, 295, 300, 308, 310, 330 and 360.
SM has some size too but not like that: Linemen 245,265, 270, 285, 292 and 295.
Bells have only three guys on the listed roster over 210 and they are 235, 230 and 230
SHP has three themselves over 210 at 215, 220 and 230.
SM's tailback is 220. And I am sure Grant and SM have the speed advantage here too.
Grant is huge: Eight linemen with weights of 285, 290, 295, 300, 308, 310, 330 and 360.
SM has some size too but not like that: Linemen 245,265, 270, 285, 292 and 295.
Bells have only three guys on the listed roster over 210 and they are 235, 230 and 230
SHP has three themselves over 210 at 215, 220 and 230.
SM's tailback is 220. And I am sure Grant and SM have the speed advantage here too.
Speed, heart, technique and execution. In Highschool football execution is king, followed by the other 3 elements. That's why SHP beat El Cerrito last year and why so many who don't understand what I said in point #1 can't quite fathom what's going on in the CCs Open. Yes, size matters, but only if all else is equal, and great coaching neutralizes size. How many times has DLS been"outsized" over the years and still dominated bigger teams?
And by the way, BBK is the best football player in the CCS, which tekes SHP from a good D4 squad to being a top 3 team in CCS on any given night.
This post was edited on 11/30 11:36 PM by FormerD1Backer
And by the way, BBK is the best football player in the CCS, which tekes SHP from a good D4 squad to being a top 3 team in CCS on any given night.
This post was edited on 11/30 11:36 PM by FormerD1Backer
Only seen St Mary's play once, it was the SI game. SI was the sixth place team in the WCAL. Bellarmine is not an inferior team, that is the whole point. They also got the brutal end of the open division.
Of coarse St Mary's travels and so you can make a good case for a traveling team. Bellarmine traveled this season as well.
Sacred Heart schedule was questionable, but playing in the open makes up for that a bit. Bellarmine and SHP are not dominant teams, they are two teams that find a way, it should be a heck of a game.
Two, I am not trying to make it political, the way these games are set up is political in nature, so I try to look at it from a political perspective. I'll state my feelings on who should play where on the website next week.
I watched Sutter play El Cerrito who struggled this season but they were extremely athletic. Sutter looked like they were in week 5 in week one. They are physically a superior team. They do a great job of adjusting and calling plays. I also know they didn't play anyone this season, hard to defend. Their closest game this season was 28 points, however and every single game they played was a blow out.
I am not saying Aptos and SI do not have great claims to the D3 game, you can make a very valid point for both teams. I haven't seen Aptos live.
SI vs Campolindo would be a great game, SI plays exceptional pass defense, just ask St Mary's. Campolindo vs Sutter another great game, Campo had some problems with Las Lomas and their Physicality, Sutter provides a similar obstacle on the offensive front and they are more athletic on the perimeter(than las Lomas). I do not get the impression Aptos Campolindo is a good game, Aptos keeping up on the score board will be an issue.
Whoever gets picked it doesn't affect me one way or another, I am just stating my opinion and we all know what they say about those.
Of coarse St Mary's travels and so you can make a good case for a traveling team. Bellarmine traveled this season as well.
Sacred Heart schedule was questionable, but playing in the open makes up for that a bit. Bellarmine and SHP are not dominant teams, they are two teams that find a way, it should be a heck of a game.
Two, I am not trying to make it political, the way these games are set up is political in nature, so I try to look at it from a political perspective. I'll state my feelings on who should play where on the website next week.
I watched Sutter play El Cerrito who struggled this season but they were extremely athletic. Sutter looked like they were in week 5 in week one. They are physically a superior team. They do a great job of adjusting and calling plays. I also know they didn't play anyone this season, hard to defend. Their closest game this season was 28 points, however and every single game they played was a blow out.
I am not saying Aptos and SI do not have great claims to the D3 game, you can make a very valid point for both teams. I haven't seen Aptos live.
SI vs Campolindo would be a great game, SI plays exceptional pass defense, just ask St Mary's. Campolindo vs Sutter another great game, Campo had some problems with Las Lomas and their Physicality, Sutter provides a similar obstacle on the offensive front and they are more athletic on the perimeter(than las Lomas). I do not get the impression Aptos Campolindo is a good game, Aptos keeping up on the score board will be an issue.
Whoever gets picked it doesn't affect me one way or another, I am just stating my opinion and we all know what they say about those.
You don't quite get how the ratings work.
Calpreps (the ones Maxpreps uses) ratings are just that... ratings. They are not "rankings". Example is Salinas, currently with a 30 rating and listed at 1830. If you move them up 4.5 rating points, that puts them somewhere in the vicinity of 1340, a jump of nearly 500 positions. If you move a team rated at 40, listed at ~845, 4.5 rating points, they go up only to about 500, only about 350 positions. A 50 team only moves up ~120 spots. Why the difference? Because the ratings are like a bell curve, many teams towards the middle, but fewer at the extremities. Moving DLS up 4.5 rating points doesn't even move them up from #3 in the state to #1. Why? Because they're ratings, not rankings.
Furthermore, I don't see how you figure that St. Mary's has a resume that is "so much better" than either Bellarmine or Sacred Heart Prep. Here's a factor that will weigh heavily against the Rams: St. Ignatius 27, St. Mary's 24 and Bellarmine 31, St. Ignatius 28... hell, Mitty 17, St. Iggy 14 and St. Francis 21, St. Iggy 13. St. Mary's lost to the 6th place WCAL team. Common opponents is a key factor in determining the bowl invites.
As for Sacred Heart Prep, getting through the CCS Open undefeated and a win over Salinas, who could win the CCS D-I title gives them at least an equal resume as the Rams. Cal-Hi has already indicated that SHP is going to be making a big jump in their rankings. Keep in mind, with regards to the rest of the Gators' non-league schedule, that they are normally a D-III team (played in last year's D-III state game). They weren't specifically targeting a state D-I regional game.
Here is my own opinion on this matter. Not sure why this all being discussed on the SHP thread, but here goes ...
IMHO, politics will be the key factor and fair representation as best can be formulated will be the only factor for deciding who plays in the NorCal D1 Regional game. Forget about who are the 2 best teams out of the sections combined (excluding DLS). SJS will be asked to provide their best team (between SJS D1 and SJS D2). If Folsom wins D1, the SJS will provide Folsom. CCS will be asked to provide their best team. CCS will provide their Open champ. NCS will be ignored because their best team has already been chosen for the CIF Open game without having to play any other NorCal team. Because there isn't an NorCal Open Regional game, the SJS is screwed, just as the CCS section is screwed for lumping in their best 8 teams into their own Open section championship tournament. CCS will argue that SJS should have a SJS Open tournament to provide their best D1 team, just as the CCS is doing. NCS will sit idle because they don't have a piece in this puzzle, but will chime in that they don't need an Open tournament because there NCS D1 playoffs is their Open tournament. Hence, the SJS is screwed. Or is it? Remember only 1 team between SJS D1, SJS D2, and CCS Open (and NCS D1) can be the NorCal D1 rep in the SBG.
bulldogmgc's projection: The nominated best team from SJS D1/D2 championships will play the winner of SHP/Bellarmine. Sure, Folsom will be the strong favorite to end up being the NorCal D1 rep. But, the game must be played and the best team between 2 sections will be moving forward to play in the SBG.
I may be wrong, because it is not easy to read the minds of the different section committees. And if I am I would be okay with it as I am sure many of the teams in the picture would be, as well. The teams cannot control the decision process on who gets selected and who doesn't, other than finish out their games as best they can. All they can do is play the game and target the goals they can achieve (ie. section championships). But, I am sure if they do get selected that they will give it their best to play to win. And that is all that can be expected.
The winner of the Grant/St. Mary's should be content to declare themselves the SJS D2 section champion and petition next year for an SJS combined D1/D2 playoff tournament, if indeed they feel they are being slighted in getting the opportunity to represent themselves in the NorCal D1 regional game. Besides, having 16 seeds for each SJS D1 and SJS D2 is a bit much, especially when we are seeing "some" 6-4, 5-5, and 4-6 teams (2nd place auto-bid Stagg) in the playoffs, IMHO, really not worthy of being there. But, again, that's just my opinion. And I am not saying I wouldn't want to see a SJS D1 champion vs a SJS D2 champion. I am just saying the SJS commissioner/committee will pick the best team from SJS D1 and D2 to challenge the CCS Open champion, feeling confident he/they picked the right team.
Attn cappyjohnson: No need to call out a 70-7 win for Folsom over CCS. That is just pure "arrogance" and an embarrassment to our beloved SJS section. You really should go crawl back under the rock you came out from after failing on "all" of your CCS picks and getting it wrong with Rocklin beating St. Mary's. You were doing pretty good there in not coming forward with an Elk Grove vs St. Mary's pick. You did not take the bait, no matter how many times I offered it to you. Just know that you have zero credibility, as far as many are concerned here. But, go ahead and stick around, because we do find you entertaining, especially when you do have to eat crow. Just know that when you are wrong again, you are an easy target to find. Cough! Cough! Uh, yes, you were indeed wrong "again" ... you said MT would not come withing 50 points of Folsom. Guess what? The score was 56-14. That equates to a 42 point difference. Nice try! Keep it coming. We have our scopes in place, trigger pulled back, and ready to fire. LOL!
IMHO, politics will be the key factor and fair representation as best can be formulated will be the only factor for deciding who plays in the NorCal D1 Regional game. Forget about who are the 2 best teams out of the sections combined (excluding DLS). SJS will be asked to provide their best team (between SJS D1 and SJS D2). If Folsom wins D1, the SJS will provide Folsom. CCS will be asked to provide their best team. CCS will provide their Open champ. NCS will be ignored because their best team has already been chosen for the CIF Open game without having to play any other NorCal team. Because there isn't an NorCal Open Regional game, the SJS is screwed, just as the CCS section is screwed for lumping in their best 8 teams into their own Open section championship tournament. CCS will argue that SJS should have a SJS Open tournament to provide their best D1 team, just as the CCS is doing. NCS will sit idle because they don't have a piece in this puzzle, but will chime in that they don't need an Open tournament because there NCS D1 playoffs is their Open tournament. Hence, the SJS is screwed. Or is it? Remember only 1 team between SJS D1, SJS D2, and CCS Open (and NCS D1) can be the NorCal D1 rep in the SBG.
bulldogmgc's projection: The nominated best team from SJS D1/D2 championships will play the winner of SHP/Bellarmine. Sure, Folsom will be the strong favorite to end up being the NorCal D1 rep. But, the game must be played and the best team between 2 sections will be moving forward to play in the SBG.
I may be wrong, because it is not easy to read the minds of the different section committees. And if I am I would be okay with it as I am sure many of the teams in the picture would be, as well. The teams cannot control the decision process on who gets selected and who doesn't, other than finish out their games as best they can. All they can do is play the game and target the goals they can achieve (ie. section championships). But, I am sure if they do get selected that they will give it their best to play to win. And that is all that can be expected.
The winner of the Grant/St. Mary's should be content to declare themselves the SJS D2 section champion and petition next year for an SJS combined D1/D2 playoff tournament, if indeed they feel they are being slighted in getting the opportunity to represent themselves in the NorCal D1 regional game. Besides, having 16 seeds for each SJS D1 and SJS D2 is a bit much, especially when we are seeing "some" 6-4, 5-5, and 4-6 teams (2nd place auto-bid Stagg) in the playoffs, IMHO, really not worthy of being there. But, again, that's just my opinion. And I am not saying I wouldn't want to see a SJS D1 champion vs a SJS D2 champion. I am just saying the SJS commissioner/committee will pick the best team from SJS D1 and D2 to challenge the CCS Open champion, feeling confident he/they picked the right team.
Attn cappyjohnson: No need to call out a 70-7 win for Folsom over CCS. That is just pure "arrogance" and an embarrassment to our beloved SJS section. You really should go crawl back under the rock you came out from after failing on "all" of your CCS picks and getting it wrong with Rocklin beating St. Mary's. You were doing pretty good there in not coming forward with an Elk Grove vs St. Mary's pick. You did not take the bait, no matter how many times I offered it to you. Just know that you have zero credibility, as far as many are concerned here. But, go ahead and stick around, because we do find you entertaining, especially when you do have to eat crow. Just know that when you are wrong again, you are an easy target to find. Cough! Cough! Uh, yes, you were indeed wrong "again" ... you said MT would not come withing 50 points of Folsom. Guess what? The score was 56-14. That equates to a 42 point difference. Nice try! Keep it coming. We have our scopes in place, trigger pulled back, and ready to fire. LOL!
BTW ... SHP played a heck of a game on Saturday vs Los Gatos. I projected a 28-21 win for Los Gatos, but it turned out to be the right score, just the wrong teams on the W-L side of the fence. SHP may be a small school with smaller players and may have gone up against some larger players. But, they utilized their speed and their skill, and most of all their heart, to overcome such obstacles and deserve a ton of credit for that win and their current undefeated season, even if many question their SOS. They are definitely showing they belong with the SOS they are facing in the CCS Open. Los Gatos is a very good team that SHP beat. St. Mary's win over Los Gatos was St. Mary's toughest game, in my opinion, to date. There was some great play calling by SHP in that game vs Los Gatos that lead to the sustaining drives enabling them to score. They made the one or two stops they needed on defense and the PICK 6 was HUGE. Bellarmine will have their hands full against SHP. And Burr-Kirven is indeed the real deal. Best of luck to SHP the rest of the way!
