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SJS Playoff Brackets

Streak One

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Nov 11, 2003
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Division I

1. St. Mary's-Stockton
2. Folsom
3. Cosumnes Oaks
4. Edison-Stockton

Division II

1. Antelope
2. Bear Creek
3. Whitney
4. Del Oro

Division III

1. Christian Brothers
2. Kimball
3. River Valley
4. Merced

Division IV

1. Foothill-Sacramento
2. Union Mine
3. West Campus
4. Lathrop

Division V

1. Colfax
2. Argonaut
3. Capital Christian
4. Summerville
 
Division I

1. St. Mary's-Stockton
2. Folsom
3. Cosumnes Oaks
4. Edison-Stockton

Division II

1. Antelope
2. Bear Creek
3. Whitney
4. Del Oro

Division III

1. Christian Brothers
2. Kimball
3. River Valley
4. Merced

Division IV

1. Foothill-Sacramento
2. Union Mine
3. West Campus
4. Lathrop

Division V

1. Colfax
2. Argonaut
3. Capital Christian
4. Summerville
Streak One- how come no McClatchy and Sac High in top 4? In Sac Bee, they are 2 and 4 in the City.
 
I thought both would be, but both will need to win on the road to clinch a NorCal bid. Seemed like misses to me
 
I thought both would be, but both will need to win on the road to clinch a NorCal bid. Seemed like misses to me
Most of the seedings in all the Divisions seem to be pretty accurate. Only one that seems very off is McClatchy one. Same thing happened to them 2 years ago.
 
Note that Edison beat McClatchy by 12. It would be pretty hard to seed them ahead of Edison. McClatchy also lost to Folsom by 22.
 
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Most of the seedings in all the Divisions seem to be pretty accurate. Only one that seems very off is McClatchy one. Same thing happened to them 2 years ago.
It is called SJS area politics. Yes happened to McClatchy two years ago when Golden Valley of Merced was seeded higher than McClatchy. Does this mean that the SJS believes that only St. Mary's and Folsom are worthy to be Open Division teams? If McClatchy beats Brookside and Edison (big IF--since Edison beat McClatchy), they qualify for the NorCals. Since McClatchy is seeded 5th in SJS, they shouldn't be eligible for the Open Division in NorCals. Otherwise, it shows somebody in the SJS was playing politics--which they always have.
 
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It is called SJS area politics. Yes happened to McClatchy two years ago when Golden Valley of Merced was seeded higher than McClatchy. Does this mean that the SJS believes that only St. Mary's and Folsom are worthy to be Open Division teams? If McClatchy beats Brookside and Edison (big IF--since Edison beat McClatchy), they qualify for the NorCals. Since McClatchy is seeded 5th in SJS, they shouldn't be eligible for the Open Division in NorCals. Otherwise, it shows somebody in the SJS was playing politics--which they always have.

I don't understand your point? Are you implying that seeding them fifth was to their detriment by keeping them from an automatic fourth place finish in D1. Or that it was meant to protect them from being included in Open? If both SMS and Folsom go to Open therefore leaving them as the second team one of the teams to stay D1.
 
It is called SJS area politics. Yes happened to McClatchy two years ago when Golden Valley of Merced was seeded higher than McClatchy. Does this mean that the SJS believes that only St. Mary's and Folsom are worthy to be Open Division teams? If McClatchy beats Brookside and Edison (big IF--since Edison beat McClatchy), they qualify for the NorCals. Since McClatchy is seeded 5th in SJS, they shouldn't be eligible for the Open Division in NorCals. Otherwise, it shows somebody in the SJS was playing politics--which they always have.
I'm not sure how politics come into this. I'm just trying to look at it objectively. If Edison beat McClatchy head to head, that makes sense although in the Maxpreps rankings they show ranked as 11. so the head to head win jumped them all the way up from 11 to 4? Cosumnes Oaks is ranked ahead of McClatchy in Maxpreps with similar records and was seeded ahead of them even though they finished 3rd in their league and lower strength of schedule. I guess SOS is lower criteria than head to head maybe? It would be nice to know what the committee is thinking. I agree, lots of people have said McClatchy should be the 3rd Open Division team from SJS. I guess the committee doesn't think this, LOL.
 
It's very difficult to balance head-to-head, strength of schedule, overall record and league finish when doing rankings/seedings. Ideally, everything points to the same result -- Archbishop Mitty is No. 1 -- but usually it's far more complex, and judgements have to be made.

Some people think head-to-head is very important and trumps all, while others feel league finish is very important.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice ...
 
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I don't understand your point? Are you implying that seeding them fifth was to their detriment by keeping them from an automatic fourth place finish in D1. Or that it was meant to protect them from being included in Open? If both SMS and Folsom go to Open therefore leaving them as the second team one of the teams to stay D1.
No. Seeding McClatchy 5th "can be" to their benefit, avoiding the Open Division. But isn't the NorCal committee different than the SJS committee? So if McClatchy (again big IF) makes it to NorCals and was selected in the Open, that would mean the SJS committee thought their section teams were very deep with Open quality teams, with five D1 teams at that caliber level. LOL.

McClatchy plays in a weak league, so they play a tough non-league schedule. Their SOS was much tougher than Edison, and McClatchy has a better record and more quality wins. But the loss to Edison means that the SJS feels that is more important.
 
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I don't understand your point? Are you implying that seeding them fifth was to their detriment by keeping them from an automatic fourth place finish in D1. Or that it was meant to protect them from being included in Open? If both SMS and Folsom go to Open therefore leaving them as the second team one of the teams to stay D1.
I think by seeding McClatchy 5, it gives them a tougher task to make it to NorCals. They have to travel to Edison (who already beat them) and beat them on the road. And it actually benefits Folsom by giving them an easier path to the Section finals. And looks to me to benefit Oak Ridge as well. Even though they lost to Cosumnes Oaks earlier this year, I would think they have a better chance to beat CO on the road than McClatchy. I'm pretty sure even Edison would rather play CO than McClatchy in quarterfinals. One of these teams won't make it to Norcals.
 
No. Seeding McClatchy 5th "can be" to their benefit, avoiding the Open Division. But isn't the NorCal committee different than the SJS committee? So if McClatchy (again big IF) makes it to NorCals and was selected in the Open, that would mean the SJS committee thought their section teams were very deep with Open quality teams, with five D1 teams at that caliber level. LOL.

McClatchy plays in a weak league, so they play a tough non-league schedule. Their SOS was much tougher than Edison, and McClatchy has a better record and more quality wins. But the loss to Edison means that the SJS feels that is more important.
One other factor too cptmycpa. If McClatchy does make it to Norcal, they will get a much lower seed because of the Section seeding even if they are different committees. A lower seed in Norcal means much tougher path to Norcal championship since will be all road games.
 
It's quite possible six SJS D1 teams will make it to NorCals, as presumably two will be pulled up to the Open. (In fact, there really doesn't seem to be a limit by section or division ... each section can send in as long a list of at-large candidates as it likes, as I understand it. Or in the case of CCS, as short a list as it likes.)

Of course, SJS has to nominate all of those teams to the CIF committee, but there seems little reason not to.
 
Agreed Im sure that everyone 4-6 would rather play C.O than Edison or Mcclatchy. Edison and McClatchy are both in weak leagues but Edison's SOS outside of league was pretty strong if you really look at it. I think losing to Edison hurt McClatchy in these seedings and the rematch will be well worth the trip.

Does brookside have enough to compete with McClatchy in the 1st Round???
 
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Agreed Im sure that everyone 4-6 would rather play C.O than Edison or Mcclatchy. Edison and McClatchy are both in weak leagues but Edison's SOS outside of league was pretty strong if you really look at it. I think losing to Edison hurt McClatchy in these seedings and the rematch will be well worth the trip.

Does brookside have enough to compete with McClatchy in the 1st Round???
Funny you ask that HoopGuy. Because I think McClatchy also is facing the toughest first round opponent in Brookside Christian. The committee seems to like keeping some of the same matchups from year to year as they played last year in 1st round of playoffs too I believe. BC only lost to Edison by 5. Edison gets to play Pitman first round and beat them by 27. McClatchy obviously will be favored over BC, but if Turney doesnt play, who knows what could happen.
 
@basketba11 Yea I also went back to look and it looks like comittee is keeping Edison, McClatchy, and BC against each other to knock each other out. Simply Put the SM side of Bracket is better and more athletic vs the Folsom side of more non athletic teams. (IMO) Pretty sure Brookside would beat any of the team in the opposite side of the bracket besides Folsom. just saying
 
So you're saying the committee got together, and someone said "Look, we need Folsom to win so we're going to put these better teams on the other side of the bracket." And then the other committee members agreed that they wanted to knock Edison, McClatchy and Brookside Christian out and make St. Mary's play the better opponent.

And the reason they would do this is?

And the likelihood of that conversation taking place is?
 
Where is Respect when we need him? Want to hear all about the political drama and his insight to the back door deals/corruption. Lol
 
So you're saying the committee got together, and someone said "Look, we need Folsom to win so we're going to put these better teams on the other side of the bracket." And then the other committee members agreed that they wanted to knock Edison, McClatchy and Brookside Christian out and make St. Mary's play the better opponent.

And the reason they would do this is?

And the likelihood of that conversation taking place is?
Clay, wouldn’t the Section committee want their best teams to be seeded accordingly so they are put into position to succeed for not just Section playoffs but more importantly NorCal playoffs? With McClatchy getting low seed, won’t this impact NorCal seedings. And even possibly knock them out altogether?
 
Clay, wouldn’t the Section committee want their best teams to be seeded accordingly so they are put into position to succeed for not just Section playoffs but more importantly NorCal playoffs? With McClatchy getting low seed, won’t this impact NorCal seedings. And even possibly knock them out altogether?

That's an interesting question because for some section commissioners and administrators, my sense is their primary concern is their playoffs, not what happens after, and not how well their teams do in NorCals.

I'm not saying NCS is this way, but their rules are an example:

To get bumped up a division, you have to have a certain amount of success in the NCS playoffs, but it's also possible to qualify for NorCals without achieving that level. So conceivably a team could win a state title -- or two -- and by NCS rules, would not be bumped up a division while teams that lost in the first round of NorCals could be moved up.

This, of course, is very unlikely, but it shows that sections are more focused on sections than on NorCals.

The McClatchy case is an interesting one, because if I'm the Edison coach, I'm going to go ballistic if I'm seeded behind them. "We beat them head to head and decisively, have a better record and have only lost to quality teams. They have a bad loss to West Campus and aside from the win over Heritage, nothing impressive on their resume."

All that said, McClatchy may well be the better team, but if you're seeding on objective results as opposed to a feeling about who would win if they played tonight, it's hard to justify McClatchy ahead of Edison.

Cosumnes Oaks has a one-point loss to St. Ignatius and two relatively close losses to Whitney -- with two wins over Antelope, two wins over Roseville and one over Foothill. The committee must have discounted that win over Sierra Canyon, which looks better than any win for Cosumnes Oaks, and focusecd on the losses to West Campus and Edison.

Still, I'm guessing all of them go to NorCals ...
 
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This is my taughts on the SJS section Committee. It's made of the old time good old boys if you kbow what i mean. If you think I'm wrong look at each division and you will have your answer. They are different then All Other division. But in the SMS wins D1 with Folsom or The Team the committee love Oak Ridge will be on top. The SJS is just like how the movie GLORY ROAD started out. They divide and Conquer. SJS is horrible toward any ethics groups not like them. I have Dealt with them personally a few times for players. But with their wrong doing it easier to transfer now and treat everyone equally.
 
McCarthy has the easier route to Norcal playoffs this way because they will beat both Brookside and Edison with easy. The committee tried to put all the aggressive team on one side but Brookside is far from that this year compared to Pico and K teams. It's not the players it's the coach that change Brookside into a Mediocre team. As we know teams play is a reflect on their coac. If you are soft then you team will be Soft.
 
That's an interesting question because for some section commissioners and administrators, my sense is their primary concern is their playoffs, not what happens after, and not how well their teams do in NorCals.

I'm not saying NCS is this way, but their rules are an example:

To get bumped up a division, you have to have a certain amount of success in the NCS playoffs, but it's also possible to qualify for NorCals without achieving that level. So conceivably a team could win a state title -- or two -- and by NCS rules, would not be bumped up a division while teams that lost in the first round of NorCals could be moved up.

This, of course, is very unlikely, but it shows that sections are more focused on sections than on NorCals.

The McClatchy case is an interesting one, because if I'm the Edison coach, I'm going to go ballistic if I'm seeded behind them. "We beat them head to head and decisively, have a better record and have only lost to quality teams. They have a bad loss to West Campus and aside from the win over Heritage, nothing impressive on their resume."

All that said, McClatchy may well be the better team, but if you're seeding on objective results as opposed to a feeling about who would win if they played tonight, it's hard to justify McClatchy ahead of Edison.

Cosumnes Oaks has a one-point loss to St. Ignatius and two relatively close losses to Whitney -- with two wins over Antelope, two wins over Roseville and one over Foothill. The committee must have discounted that win over Sierra Canyon, which looks better than any win for Cosumnes Oaks, and focusecd on the losses to West Campus and Edison.

Still, I'm guessing all of them go to NorCals ...

Clay,

Antelope beat CO in our last game.
 
I think the bigger problem in the sjs is the attempt to keep the southern part of the section relevant. Edison is way overrated and most people do not believe they should be ahead of McClatchy but the head to head matchup justifies it. Look at D2 they pushed Bear Creek down a division for the same reason, to keep the Southern side relevant. After St Mary's the southern teams just aren't that good and the sjs try's to compensate for it. Edison strength of schedule on Maxpreps is 7.6 thats horrible and Bear creeks is 9.5 not much better.

and "Yes" Clay Antelope beat CO by 30 last Wednesday.
 
Sorry about that ... it was only 27, but I stand corrected.
 
Well, basically it is what it is. Every year there are going to be a few things that the committee seem to get wrong. But it is time to get it done on the court. Let’s see how it plays out! Can’t wait to see some of these playoff match-ups! Good luck to all teams!
 
McCarthy has the easier route to Norcal playoffs this way because they will beat both Brookside and Edison with easy. The committee tried to put all the aggressive team on one side but Brookside is far from that this year compared to Pico and K teams. It's not the players it's the coach that change Brookside into a Mediocre team. As we know teams play is a reflect on their coac. If you are soft then you team will be Soft.

i think "McCarthy" got hosed and it was a communist plot
 
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I think the bigger problem in the sjs is the attempt to keep the southern part of the section relevant. Edison is way overrated and most people do not believe they should be ahead of McClatchy but the head to head matchup justifies it. Look at D2 they pushed Bear Creek down a division for the same reason, to keep the Southern side relevant. After St Mary's the southern teams just aren't that good and the sjs try's to compensate for it. Edison strength of schedule on Maxpreps is 7.6 thats horrible and Bear creeks is 9.5 not much better.

and "Yes" Clay Antelope beat CO by 30 last Wednesday.



Azanna.. lol since Edison is WAY OVERATED what seed do you think they deserved? Edison's SOS is only that low because of its league. Same as Bear Creek. Edison has ONLY LOSS to Top Tier Programs and Have some GOOD quality Wins.
 
I think the bigger problem in the sjs is the attempt to keep the southern part of the section relevant. Edison is way overrated and most people do not believe they should be ahead of McClatchy but the head to head matchup justifies it. Look at D2 they pushed Bear Creek down a division for the same reason, to keep the Southern side relevant. After St Mary's the southern teams just aren't that good and the sjs try's to compensate for it. Edison strength of schedule on Maxpreps is 7.6 thats horrible and Bear creeks is 9.5 not much better.

and "Yes" Clay Antelope beat CO by 30 last Wednesday.



Azanna.. lol since Edison is WAY OVERATED what seed do you think they deserved? Edison's SOS is only that low because of its league. Same as Bear Creek. Edison has ONLY LOSS to Top Tier Programs and Have some GOOD quality Wins.
I don’t know, I have not seen Bear creek play but I’ve seen Edison a couple times and I was just not impressed. I would fear playing MC way more than I would fear playing Edison. It is just my opinion I could be wrong.
 
It is called SJS area politics. Yes happened to McClatchy two years ago when Golden Valley of Merced was seeded higher than McClatchy. Does this mean that the SJS believes that only St. Mary's and Folsom are worthy to be Open Division teams? If McClatchy beats Brookside and Edison (big IF--since Edison beat McClatchy), they qualify for the NorCals. Since McClatchy is seeded 5th in SJS, they shouldn't be eligible for the Open Division in NorCals. Otherwise, it shows somebody in the SJS was playing politics--which they always have.
Folks, I think seeding is more complex than "politics." It's partly based on computer analytics provided by MaxPreps and other factors. This is from the Sac-Joaquin Section website:
2018 Playoff Information
The SJS basketball postseason determines playoff teams by qualifying through league (see below) as well as the top 12 teams by division at the end of the season by MaxPreps rankings (top 8 in Divisions 5-6). Divisions 1-4 are then split evenly by enrollment. Division 5 is all schools with enrollment 201-600, D6 is schools at enrollment 200-below. See the format for additional information.
http://www.cifsjs.org/sports/wbkb/playoffs
 
Folks, I think seeding is more complex than "politics." It's partly based on computer analytics provided by MaxPreps and other factors. This is from the Sac-Joaquin Section website:
2018 Playoff Information
The SJS basketball postseason determines playoff teams by qualifying through league (see below) as well as the top 12 teams by division at the end of the season by MaxPreps rankings (top 8 in Divisions 5-6). Divisions 1-4 are then split evenly by enrollment. Division 5 is all schools with enrollment 201-600, D6 is schools at enrollment 200-below. See the format for additional information.
http://www.cifsjs.org/sports/wbkb/playoffs
Mustang76:
You must not have followed the history of SJS seeding before. Many on this blog have. Did you research to find out that on MaxPreps in last weeks and this weeks rankings for Sac-Joaquin Section Division 1 that Edison is ranked #11, and McClatchy is ranked #4? Or from a California state ranking in MaxPreps, Edison is ranked #154 and McClatchy is ranked #53? Did you also know that NorCalPreps.com rankings have McClatchy #12 in Northern California, but Edison and Cosumnes Oaks are not ranked in the Top 20? Did you also know that in CalHi Sports that McClatchy is also ranked #15 in the state and Edison and Cosumnes Oaks are not ranked? Did you also know that the Sacramento Bee newspaper (Joe Davidson) has McClatchy ranked higher than Cosumnes Oaks? Did you also know that McClatchy (though in weak league) came in 1st place in its league, Edison came in 2nd in its league, and Cosumnes Oaks came in 3rd in its league.

What the SJS did was seed Edison better than McClatchy based on Edison's head-to-head win over McClatchy. That's all well and good and I think Edison can beat McClatchy again, especially if Richelle Turney is injured and doesn't play, but the flaw is that if a ranked team has a bad game or had an injured star starter who didn't play in that loss (McClatchy's Kamryn Hall), get beat by hypothetically by an unranked team, does the victorious team automatically get elevated to a higher ranking and thus seeding above the team they beat?

If Stanford women's basketball ranked #16 in the country beat #1 UCONN, does Stanford automatically become a higher/better seed than UCONN? I rest my case.

https://norcalpreps.forums.rivals.com/threads/ncp-top-20-week-of-february-12.18424/

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/high-school/article199757584.html
 
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Wow, great information you provided cptmycpa. Most likely Mustang76 didn’t know all of that...but from the looks of it, sounds like the seeding committee didn’t have all that info either. That’s what’s kinda sad about the whole process, why can’t the committee use all of that? Each year there are always questionable bracketing done, both on the girls and boys side.
 
Wow, great information you provided cptmycpa. Most likely Mustang76 didn’t know all of that...but from the looks of it, sounds like the seeding committee didn’t have all that info either. That’s what’s kinda sad about the whole process, why can’t the committee use all of that? Each year there are always questionable bracketing done, both on the girls and boys side.
It really is what I said, to keep the southern part of the section relevant they rank those teams higher than they should be. The UConn Stanford example was great.
 
It really is what I said, to keep the southern part of the section relevant they rank those teams higher than they should be. The UConn Stanford example was great.
Azanna,
I agree with you completely. Most posters here are from the CCS or NCS and don't closely follow what the SJS does each year in their seeding. Having followed SJS seeding for the past five consecutive years, I've seen some real head scratchers. The one that was the worst head scratching seeding was two years ago in D1 in 2016 when the SJS committee seeded Golden Valley of Merced #5, Lincoln of Stockton #6, and McClatchy #7.
http://www.cifsjs.org/sports/wbkb/2015-16info/bkbgirlsd1bracket_16.pdf

Even Joe Davidson of the Sac Bee was shaking his head during that 2016 SJS seeding show at SJS headquarters. McClatchy had to play at Oak Ridge in the 2nd round, with the loser not advancing to the NorCals--getting rid of the top two Sacramento area teams.

That year McClatchy (Maxpreps #85 in state) beat both Cardinal Newman and Sacred Heart Cathedral, and beat West Campus, Whitney, St. Mary's Berkeley, and Lynwood. Losses were to tough teams (Miramonte, Salesian, Brea, Oaks Christian, and split with Sac High).
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-school...a)/girls-basketball-winter-15-16/schedule.htm

Lincoln of Stockton (Maxpreps #84) didn't have that type of quality wins, but was from the "south" of SJS.
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-school...a)/girls-basketball-winter-15-16/schedule.htm

And Golden Valley of Merced (Maxpreps #128)--what can I say. Check this link out. Talk about real "south SJS."
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-school...a)/girls-basketball-winter-15-16/schedule.htm
 
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I agree that SJS has always been goofy, but part of it was their weird power formula that awarded the same numbe of points for wins over teams in a specific league regardless of the individual team's record. So a win over the 20-win league champ counted the same as a win over the 20-loss league cellar-dweller.

I'm also suspicious, though, of such things as "regional conspiracies," or that committees were "out to get" certain programs. It seems to me simple incompetence is more likely.
 
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I agree that SJS has always been goofy, but part of it was their weird power formula that awarded the same numbe of points for wins over teams in a specific league regardless of the individual team's record. So a win over the 20-win league champ counted the same as a win over the 20-loss league cellar-dweller.

I'm also suspicious, though, of such things as "regional conspiracies," or that committees were "out to get" certain programs. It seems to me simple incompetence is more likely.
I wouldn't characterize it as a "conspiracy," instead many SJS followers would call it "equal regional representation." The SJS committee wants to ensure that all regions of the section are represented, regardless what the data looks like. There's a big difference there Clay in the two.
 
Mustang76:
You must not have followed the history of SJS seeding before. Many on this blog have. Did you research to find out that on MaxPreps in last weeks and this weeks rankings for Sac-Joaquin Section Division 1 that Edison is ranked #11, and McClatchy is ranked #4? Or from a California state ranking in MaxPreps, Edison is ranked #154 and McClatchy is ranked #53? Did you also know that NorCalPreps.com rankings have McClatchy #12 in Northern California, but Edison and Cosumnes Oaks are not ranked in the Top 20? Did you also know that in CalHi Sports that McClatchy is also ranked #15 in the state and Edison and Cosumnes Oaks are not ranked? Did you also know that the Sacramento Bee newspaper (Joe Davidson) has McClatchy ranked higher than Cosumnes Oaks? Did you also know that McClatchy (though in weak league) came in 1st place in its league, Edison came in 2nd in its league, and Cosumnes Oaks came in 3rd in its league.

What the SJS did was seed Edison better than McClatchy based on Edison's head-to-head win over McClatchy. That's all well and good and I think Edison can beat McClatchy again, especially if Richelle Turney is injured and doesn't play, but the flaw is that if a ranked team has a bad game or had an injured star starter who didn't play in that loss (McClatchy's Kamryn Hall), get beat by hypothetically by an unranked team, does the victorious team automatically get elevated to a higher ranking and thus seeding above the team they beat?

If Stanford women's basketball ranked #16 in the country beat #1 UCONN, does Stanford automatically become a higher/better seed than UCONN? I rest my case.

https://norcalpreps.forums.rivals.com/threads/ncp-top-20-week-of-february-12.18424/

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/high-school/article199757584.html
Thanks for the information. I appreciate the depth of your knowledge, which in a way supports my original statement: it's more complex than politics. I'll follow all of the divisions with great interest and see how it all ends. As the saying goes: "That's why they play the game."
 
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