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West Coast Jamboree Tentative Brackets 2016

Totally agree....!

But what I don't get, and never will...how many AAU kids DON'T go to DI? Does that mean they're garbage? In your post you say "Not to mention all of the D1 kids he's helped this year..." What about ALL of the kids he's helped period? Just because you play Cal Stars, Cagers, EBX, etc. does not mean you're guaranteed a D1 scholarship or even play in college.

I hate hate hate it when parents, coaches, kids get caught up in the whole D1 conversation. I would much rather have my kids go to a d2 or d3 school and have a wonderful college experience than sit the pine at a D1 school-unless it's purely academic..then I get it. But most of the time parents/coaches want the extravagant accolades that goes along with being at a D1 school.
 
Steak One

Why is there a mute point?? You don't want people to knoa what real goes on behind the seen and how teams get ranked !!!!! The top in the ranking of players is usually true but after that it comes to who is coaching them players. I know don't be mad at me do people real look at the board and find out about all the propaganda that is sold on Ranking.

CW
All I was saying I know about all the cut throat that goes on behind these teams. I know you apart Cal Stars I know you have defend themselves but it's OK. But you know that most their best players came from other programs like the Mustangs. And if you don't know Pico when he had the lady Warrior sent all kids SMS way too that was the best players on those teams. Examples Smith that just transferred SMS was a lady Warrior at one time. Name 3 players that each one them coaches had them kids since they started.

Freedom of speech is great thing until a sight doesn't like because you struck a nerve.....
 
NorCal---I agree. I was quickly trying to post accomplishments of each coach and did not mean to be short sighted by only talking about D1. I was simply pointing out the success he's had at the highest level--much like pointing out Tom's All-Americans but in no way was I slighting his All-League and All-State kids. But I agree with your point and sorry in my rush I appeared to leave any kids off. Kids should do AAU, in my opinion, to give themselves the greatest opportunity for development in their chosen passion (basketball). The scholarships are a bonus of that development. When the scholarship becomes the sole focus, I believe the process gets tainted and much more frustration, heartache and pressure arises instead of the joy of the game, teammates, relationships and great competition in great cities. We are all competitive and it is a fine line. But kids should be doing it because they love the game. Just my opinion.

Respect--I get that some of it becomes cut throat. They all want to field the best team they can. I would hope they can all do it respectfully. That's all.

I am not a part of Cal Stars. I am a parent of a child that plays for Cal Stars. We felt it was the best fit for my daughter. That does not mean there are not other good fits as well. I am not a part of St. Mary's, nor a part of Soldiers/Brookside Christian. I believe my post clearly supports all 3 coaches/programs. That's just my personal view. I compete against all of them and have respect for all of them.

While my daughter does play for Cal Stars, I have players on multiple AAU teams. Just this last season, I had kids on Cal Stars, Cal Swish, Team Taurasi, Cal Sparks Extreme and Lady Heat. And I supported all of them and have developed relationships with each director so our kids hopefully get the best experience of what they need from Clovis West and the AAU experience. I first met Pico when he was still running Lady Warriors. I'm aware of that.

You have mentioned the Mustangs players going on to play in different programs several times on this thread. Do the Mustangs not have a high school program? Is it only a feeder program and then they have to find another one for high school? Or if they do have a high school one, then why are they leaving to play for other programs? I know they've had some outstanding younger level teams over the years. Just curious why they don't stay with Mustangs or if that is even an option?

No nerve struck here. Just giving my perspective on this all. My words aren't directed solely at you or anyone. Just in general I would like to see less hate in all of this. That's all. If you come down when Brookside plays in our tourney in December, come on over and introduce yourself and I'd love to talk hoops. You obviously are dialed in on the NorCal side and it would be fun to chat about the landscape of NorCal girls hoops. You prob know the Sac area better than I do. Let me know.
 
MKBGDNS--Agreed...but unless the child earns academics money, families are paying a lot out of pocket. NAIA is a great choice for kids to get a substantial, if not full scholarship while still having that balance as well.
 
I Think JBS is the best program in NorCal and they didn't steal anyone's players.

Just Sayin

I felt left out and just wanted to say something
 
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Respect used to coach/run Mustangs and BC and is now at CKM as the head coach with an assistant title which is the reason for all of the chest bumping and touting. He should be the last on this or any thread bragging about what the Mustangs have done for so many Northern California teams.

Since youre bragging, why dont you tell people why you were relieved of your coaching duties at BC despite being wildly successful? I know you wouldnt be coaching my kid, not even within 100 feet!
 
Hey, If their not talking bad about you, your not successful enough. But I agree having good coaches and good teams in our area is just good for everyone. The, I gotta beat you or we're better than you are crap is totally missing the goal line. As adults we have a responsibility to guide and coach as many young adults into being confident, discipline, respectable high achievers. Hats off to all who continue to make a positive difference in impacting our children.

There is more than enough success to go around. Hopefully we all enjoy a bit of success in the upcoming season/years. Obviously some will always be a little more fortunate, and a little more successful.
 
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Respect used to coach/run Mustangs and BC and is now at CKM as the head coach with an assistant title which is the reason for all of the chest bumping and touting. He should be the last on this or any thread bragging about what the Mustangs have done for so many Northern California teams.

Since youre bragging, why dont you tell people why you were relieved of your coaching duties at BC despite being wildly successful? I know you wouldnt be coaching my kid, not even within 100 feet!


geez..here we go again..

RESPECT is NOT Que!!! So can we stop with that please?

I personally know Que and RESPECT. And I consider both friends (including RESPECT...despite the BC vs CN trash talking we often do to each other...lol)

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON.....in fact they are so OPPOSITE of each other physically is laughable...you know what Im saying RESPECT:D...lol

RESPECT is legitimately giving Que and the Mustangs their props...
 
Clearly Stockton has produced a lot of talent in the past few years, for whatever reason, and high schools and club teams have benefited. The Stockton Mustangs have been the incubator but again, for whatever reasons, parents have chosen to send their players to other clubs.

First, why does this make the other clubs bad guys? And second, what's the harm? Shouldn't parents be able to place their children where they think is best?
 
Clay

It's not a bad thing that these players choose other clubs or high school. The clubs and high school the Stockton Mustangs players go to now the all don't pay a dime to play and some parents are free on the trips too. The biggest think they near give the respect to the Stockton Mustangs program for producing such Stellar athletes that have gotten a scholarship in the 8th grade.

This is my point take Alabama's coach Nick Saban. When he was in the LSU he was on top of the college world. Then he went to the NFL where the talent level even out. He had to coach and not rely on the better recruiting. He spent a short time in the NFL because it was about coach even level players. This is going to happen to MM this year and for now on unless there are a lot apartments opening in Orinda but still won't be the same. Same with SMS after next year when DeCosta graduates what then because he only has 1 freshman his team because 2018 will graduate Young and Johnson too. All I'm saying give credit where it's do to who made them teams great!!!! But the era of the Stockton Mustangs ends in 2018 with a few other down the line.
 
Steak One

Why is there a mute point?? You don't want people to knoa what real goes on behind the seen and how teams get ranked !!!!! The top in the ranking of players is usually true but after that it comes to who is coaching them players. I know don't be mad at me do people real look at the board and find out about all the propaganda that is sold on Ranking.

CW
All I was saying I know about all the cut throat that goes on behind these teams. I know you apart Cal Stars I know you have defend themselves but it's OK. But you know that most their best players came from other programs like the Mustangs. And if you don't know Pico when he had the lady Warrior sent all kids SMS way too that was the best players on those teams. Examples Smith that just transferred SMS was a lady Warrior at one time. Name 3 players that each one them coaches had them kids since they started.

Freedom of speech is great thing until a sight doesn't like because you struck a nerve.....

Same song and dance. I'm all for good discussion on rankings and the sport as a whole, but always pointing to claims of agendas and propaganda is just wrong. Just because there is disagreement doesn't mean there is an agenda.
 
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North bay, if you do know Respect can you please enlighten us as to why some of his/her posts are coherent and some and not! Is he just messing with us?
 
That is certainly a problem. It is very difficult to fathom precisely what he (or she) is trying to say. In fact, most of it is simply incomprehensible.
 
well, the rancor and put-downs somehow come through the static. what's (s)he so angry about?
 
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Streak One

I going to prove my point once and for all about the propaganda!!!! Can you show everyone on the blog the last 4 years of ranking of players. Next to ranking of the player can you out their AAU team and the college they went !!!!! The top 5 in Ranking mostly true because that's a given that nobody can deny. The years I'm looking for is class of 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016. This will tell everyone if the person who does the ranks of players knows talent, didn't go by here say for coaches or loyalty over rules all?? If you can prove that I will leave the word propaganda out and apologize for wrong doing!!!! Until then I will keep saying the same old song all day long!!!!!

The worst think I know it's in the database because technology is something else these days!!!!!!!
 
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This would assume everyone can agree on

a) what criteria to use for ranking (say, college potential or high school production, among others); and
b) how those criteria apply to specific players.

Reasonable people can disagree on talent evaluation. For example, I don't think you were as impressed with Sabrina Ionescu as many others, and you were more impressed with Aarion McDonald. I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but there's really no objective standard to measure by.

Your assumption going in seems to be that there is a grand conspiracy against certain programs and players and that other programs and players are unjustifiably promoted by a mysterious cabal of people who are influenced by politics and other non-basketball forces. This tends to make it harder to take your critique of player evaluations as seriously as we might, unless of course you can offer proof of the conspiracy and politics you believe exist.

For example, I asked you to name names of those who downgraded Pico after his two state titles at Oakland Tech, and I got no response. If you're going to make allegations, supporting them with facts rather than references to a shadowy "them" would make it easier to credit your arguments.
 
Clay

Never said people downgrading Pico. What I said was People don't want him to rise to the top again but the can't stop it. Stop trying to twist my words like usually.

McDonald and Sabrina are to great players. I only said I think McDonald was the better more complete player in my opinion. But all said and done McDonald is starting on top 20 team in the NCAA and still doing the same things she did in high school. I sure Sabrina will help her to rise too.

So I see as a group you won't post the things I'm asking for 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016. Their AAU team and the college they went to from the top 40 ranking. This easy because like I said before its in the database. The biggest thing people are looking at what it post and how do I know that??? When I post think I have the most people viewing the post.

So with you trying to discredit me!!!! What happen to Max prep and the McDonald's All American vote!!! Why was the vote taken away?? Yes I know people in high positionsl then your think I do? ? I keep telling you but you don't believe!!!! I know pushed for what and I let them know!!!!!
 
What I said was People don't want him to rise to the top again but the can't stop it.

Why don't people want Pico to rise to the top again? Who are these people? Name some names, please.

The McDonald's vote was taken away, I'm guessing (they never said), because I'm not out on the summer circuit. I can't really disagree, though I'm not sure all of the voters are on the road that much either.

I know pushed for what and I let them know!!!!!

You'll have to explain that one ...
 
Clay

OK I will be very blunt Tom and Kelly don't want Pico to rise to the top. Once Pico on top again it will be hard to knock him off the top. Very one forgets about the time Pico took time off from AAU and Kelly pickup Moore from LU. Tom knows once Pico on top of the AAU WORLD players will transfer in to Brookside that will become the best little school in Stockton. How do I knows because before SMS and Cal Stars was on top Pico in both worlds before he took a break. But he rising to the top quick again.

Yes a lot the writer will hit the circuit all summer and broaden their Horizons. There are a lot of great players out. Any player can play against players they know but it nice to see play against real competition. When that happens you see the real Player come to play or fade away. Some of these AAU TEAMS play teams that they know the caname beat so they can push kids out which is cool. But after that player has to perform once they are in college. How many kids do your came back because the can live up to the hypend?????

Ranking kids is not an easy task. Find games where the are facing equal competition see if they can score the same??? I won't rank a player unless I see them play against real competition. I know there is a young lady at Tennyson High School that no body knows about her. She is a sophomore with good handles, great IQ, about 5'10", very physical and a floor leader. But she don't play for a big club name but better then most. I notice kids like that. JBS had a very big pickup at the end of the year from Chico. Probably is one of best power forward of the class of 2018. She can handle the ball, very physical, good Court awareness, team player, can play both down low on the block to the 3pt line where she can shoot or make a move, and she is like 6'2" or 6'3".

The biggest think players need when the want to play at D1 level is being physical and mental toughness beside having talent. They are players out there that can score but don't play defense!!! College team will send you home if you can play 1on1 high level.
 
So the conspiracy is Tom Gonsalves and Kelly Sopak?

I think some people would call that competition ... Pico would like to keep them down too, and Michele Massari and Sean Chambers, and vice versa. All these people, and most coaches, are very competitive, but that doesn't make it a conspiracy against any one of them. They're competing for players, for sponsorships, for wins, for titles, and that's how things should be.

But I don't think this is the-world-against-Pico any more than it's the world-against-Tom. The narrative you seem to favor is that Brookside Christian is everyone's target, and no one else is anyone's target, and that's hard to credit.

It's just the way the game is played, in business, in girls' basketball, everywhere.
 
Clay

You always twisting things buts that ok competition and talk behind some back is another. We understand where your loyalty is too. Twist away all you want but can hide the facts with the ranking the way you keep changing the topic. Do what you do best a twist away!!!!! When will that's to prove me wrong on the ranking going to come out??? Or we going to steer away from the subject some more ?????

Brookside been at target one way or another. Why do I say this?? When they one there first State title the next year the went to the open against O'DOWD. The next they lost against Pinewood in NorCal championship with same refs they lost 3 out 4 games that same year. Next Pico went to D4 state championships and lost. The next they wasn't give a chance to go back to D4 championship. Who know what they will do next year????
 
Streak One

I'm a man of my word I apologize for my wrong clam on the girls ranking for the past 4 years. Last was the only year that was bad but that's ok because their was a drop in the high level play besides the top 20. So I can eat my words when I'm wrong!!!!!!!
 
Clay

You always twisting things buts that ok competition and talk behind some back is another. We understand where your loyalty is too. Twist away all you want but can hide the facts with the ranking the way you keep changing the topic. Do what you do best a twist away!!!!! When will that's to prove me wrong on the ranking going to come out??? Or we going to steer away from the subject some more ?????

Brookside been at target one way or another. Why do I say this?? When they one there first State title the next year the went to the open against O'DOWD. The next they lost against Pinewood in NorCal championship with same refs they lost 3 out 4 games that same year. Next Pico went to D4 state championships and lost. The next they wasn't give a chance to go back to D4 championship. Who know what they will do next year????

Ok...RESPECT...so let me see if I have this correct. BROOKSIDE is the target in a vast conspiracy by the CIF/SJS to somehow stick it to BC?

Lets look at your proof (according to your post):

1) BC wins their 1st state title...and the following year they get placed into the OPEN against O'Dowd.

That seems to me like the logical progression forward for a team coming off a state championship still loaded with talent.

2) Blaming the refs again....seems like your go-to favorite excuse when you lose. Whether its at Clovis, Miramonte or the WCJ. Its never you weren't good enough, i'ts always the refs. (or the scorekeeper)

3) and MY FAVORITE**** 2 yrs ago BC made it to the default D4 state championship game and lost despite having 3 D1 committed studs. And (by your own post on the other thread) 2 more D1 underclassmen playing on that team (5 D1 total). You had beaten NCS D4 champ and OPEN representative Salesian in the WCJ earlier that year. And yet YOU WERE NOT CHOSEN TO GO TO THE OPEN THAT YEAR. SMB went to the OPEN despite a 2nd place finish in the NCS. SMB was 23-9 while BC was 27-4.... what happened??? Did the CIF accidently forget about you that year? Did they take that year off from sticking it to BC?

4) so now that's 2 state championship games, an OPEN bid and a NORCAL final game over a 4year period. And you win the SJS D4 SECTION the next year.....did you NOT think you were going OPEN based on that 5 year run??? You sat on NCP all last season preaching the mantra of...."to be the best you have to play the best" and you get placed into the OPEN to play the best teams and all you've done since is whine about it.

MAN UP Respect.. and get over the BROOKSIDE is a target bullsh**. BC has an excellent basketball tradition/program. Be proud about that.

The importance of BC in YOUR mind is way more than their importance in the minds of the rest of us.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just trying to be real. Let the conspiracy nonsense go...its not a good
look coming from a program with the success of BROOKSIDE CHRISTIAN.
 
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A couple points:

1) I don't know what I twisted exactly, but the point is this: Brookside Christian is one school among many. Pico Wilburn has done a tremendous job building the program up and as mentioned above, the team has played at a very high level for many years.

It seems unlikely to me that there is some high level conspiracy aligned against Brookside Christian, and only Brookside Christian. (If you daughter played somewhere else, say Modesto Christian, with the conspiracy be directed against them?) Some years, teams get an advantage in the playoffs; some years they don't. To call those random fluctuations a conspiracy just doesn't make sense to me. The system is flawed, and every year some team gets the short end of the stick. Last year, that was Brookside – but that doesn't mean a bunch of people sat in a room and thought "How can we make life hard for Pico?".

This everyone-against-Brookside, everyone-against-Pico, everyone-against-Respect, narrative really doesn't hold. It's a very very competitive landscap., shaped by an arbitrary system and things change year to year.

2) Presumably, Miramonte and others are getting the benefits of this conspiracy, while Brookside is constantly the victim. But look at Miramonte the past four years. Last year, of course, they belonged in the Open. No question.

The Matadors, though, have been in the Open the last four years, but the first year of the system, they lost by 29 to Bishop O'Dowd in the Division III finals, and yet were still placed in the Open.

If Miramonte had been in Division III all four years, do you think they would have won a state title? What about if they had had one shot at a DIII title, like O'Dowd?

You can make a similar argument about Brookside Christian, but the fact remains that Miramonte has never won a state championship and Brookside Christian has one.

Other schools than Miramonte can also point to seemingly unfair treatment by various seeding committees. (St. Mary's had to play Pinewood last year at Delta, not in its home gym -- do you think that might have helped avoid the upset?) Again, this whole world-against-Brookside mindset is not only wrong, it also detracts from the achievements that Pico, his players, and parents like you justly celebrate.

Words are not being twisted here, nor are facts. Every year, some teams get the luck of the draw; every year, some teams don't. It's simply paranoid to think that people care enough about Brookside Christian and Pico Wilburn that they would go out of their way to make life any harder for them than for any other school.
 
Please start a new thread on the above disagreements / argument. This thread supposed to be on the West Coast Jamboree. It has been off-topic for the past couple weeks. Let's please move on.
 
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A couple points:

1) I don't know what I twisted exactly, but the point is this: Brookside Christian is one school among many. Pico Wilburn has done a tremendous job building the program up and as mentioned above, the team has played at a very high level for many years.

It seems unlikely to me that there is some high level conspiracy aligned against Brookside Christian, and only Brookside Christian. (If you daughter played somewhere else, say Modesto Christian, with the conspiracy be directed against them?) Some years, teams get an advantage in the playoffs; some years they don't. To call those random fluctuations a conspiracy just doesn't make sense to me. The system is flawed, and every year some team gets the short end of the stick. Last year, that was Brookside – but that doesn't mean a bunch of people sat in a room and thought "How can we make life hard for Pico?".

This everyone-against-Brookside, everyone-against-Pico, everyone-against-Respect, narrative really doesn't hold. It's a very very competitive landscap., shaped by an arbitrary system and things change year to year.

2) Presumably, Miramonte and others are getting the benefits of this conspiracy, while Brookside is constantly the victim. But look at Miramonte the past four years. Last year, of course, they belonged in the Open. No question.

The Matadors, though, have been in the Open the last four years, but the first year of the system, they lost by 29 to Bishop O'Dowd in the Division III finals, and yet were still placed in the Open.

If Miramonte had been in Division III all four years, do you think they would have won a state title? What about if they had had one shot at a DIII title, like O'Dowd?

You can make a similar argument about Brookside Christian, but the fact remains that Miramonte has never won a state championship and Brookside Christian has one.

Other schools than Miramonte can also point to seemingly unfair treatment by various seeding committees. (St. Mary's had to play Pinewood last year at Delta, not in its home gym -- do you think that might have helped avoid the upset?) Again, this whole world-against-Brookside mindset is not only wrong, it also detracts from the achievements that Pico, his players, and parents like you justly celebrate.

Words are not being twisted here, nor are facts. Every year, some teams get the luck of the draw; every year, some teams don't. It's simply paranoid to think that people care enough about Brookside Christian and Pico Wilburn that they would go out of their way to make life any harder for them than for any other school.


good post....I concur

and good idea deleting his last post......I was about to torch him.
 
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Northbay
I didn't delete my post I guess my time on the board is almost done!!! I wound if Clay delete my post lol!!!!!!!
 
We're still tweaking things -- we should have the final brackets done by the end of this week or early next week.
 
Ok...RESPECT...so let me see if I have this correct. BROOKSIDE is the target in a vast conspiracy by the CIF/SJS to somehow stick it to BC?

Lets look at your proof (according to your post):

1) BC wins their 1st state title...and the following year they get placed into the OPEN against O'Dowd.

That seems to me like the logical progression forward for a team coming off a state championship still loaded with talent.

2) Blaming the refs again....seems like your go-to favorite excuse when you lose. Whether its at Clovis, Miramonte or the WCJ. Its never you weren't good enough, i'ts always the refs. (or the scorekeeper)

3) and MY FAVORITE**** 2 yrs ago BC made it to the default D4 state championship game and lost despite having 3 D1 committed studs. And (by your own post on the other thread) 2 more D1 underclassmen playing on that team (5 D1 total). You had beaten NCS D4 champ and OPEN representative Salesian in the WCJ earlier that year. And yet YOU WERE NOT CHOSEN TO GO TO THE OPEN THAT YEAR. SMB went to the OPEN despite a 2nd place finish in the NCS. SMB was 23-9 while BC was 27-4.... what happened??? Did the CIF accidently forget about you that year? Did they take that year off from sticking it to BC?

4) so now that's 2 state championship games, an OPEN bid and a NORCAL final game over a 4year period. And you win the SJS D4 SECTION the next year.....did you NOT think you were going OPEN based on that 5 year run??? You sat on NCP all last season preaching the mantra of...."to be the best you have to play the best" and you get placed into the OPEN to play the best teams and all you've done since is whine about it.

MAN UP Respect.. and get over the BROOKSIDE is a target bullsh**. BC has an excellent basketball tradition/program. Be proud about that.

The importance of BC in YOUR mind is way more than their importance in the minds of the rest of us.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just trying to be real. Let the conspiracy nonsense go...its not a good
look coming from a program with the success of BROOKSIDE CHRISTIAN.
Do you think Respect is being this arrogant because he knows that Brookside is going to have a big drop this season?
 
Do you think Respect is being this arrogant because he knows that Brookside is going to have a big drop this season?

I don't think RESPECT is being arrogant. I think he's just a little defensive about his squad because they aren't perceived as being as good as they have been in the past. And also I think he's probably pissed they have been placed in D1 where they may have trouble making it to the NORCALS this coming year. He and the BC team need to stop being so sensitive and go out this season and prove everybody wrong. Scoreboard is always the best way to stop the chatter.
This is just a message board after all and all the chatter are just opinions.
 
That makes logical sense. It was not fair putting them in the open last year. I think they had a legitimate shot to win state but to get crushed by a dominant program like Miramonte just added salt to the wound. CIF needs to look at a way to path back some of the inferior teams that get crushed in the Open vs the big dogs and let them have a fighting chance.
 
It's always a conundrum. The bottom teams in any Open division bracket are always cannon fodder, but you can't just have the three teams that really have a chance and call that a bracket.

Cardinal Newman, for example, wona state title last year in Division IV, and could wind up in the Open this year. They could be very competitive at that level, or they could be overmatched, but there is no doubt they'd have a much better chance to win a state title in Division IV than in the Open.

At some level, teams are going to do what they can to stay out of the Open, not be the sixth through eighth seeds in that bracket, and play "down" and have a chance to put a banner on the gym wall.
 
Clay,
Are the
SMS vs East Salt Lake City
and Inderkum vs SHC games on the 27th confirmed....
The 27th sounds like some good games if that are the types of games
you are scheduling.
How about a (MM vs Brea or Nade game) or a Salesian vs Manteca game(two big kids going at it)
 
Clay,
BTW the socal guys seem to think Brea is top 5 down south...
because they are 10 deep...let mm and brea into the
Platinum ....also Nade is seen as in the socal 10-15 ranking range....
after losing those 50 pts in the starting 5
 
So Jazz, it helps if you read posts: Miramonte cannot play in the Platinum because

a: The Platinum must be at Las Positas
b: Miramonte is hosting, and a host school has to play at home

Jeff Sink, the Brea coach, did not want to play in the Platinum, and Kelli DiMuro, the Chaminade coach, did.

Kelli also said she feels Chaminade will be better than most expect because of incoming talent.
 
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