Will DeBoard and Mike Garrison need to grow some balls (McClatchy vs Lincoln)

[Cheeto]

Regarding the fiasco that happened when Lincoln (Stockton) traveled to McClatchy on Monday night ...

CIF section assistant commissioner Will DeBoard said (in the Sacramento Bee):
“When the officials declare the game is over, it’s over. There isn’t anything we can do. The officials are in charge and it’s their judgment. We can’t reverse a result. Would it be great if we could play those final seconds on a clean court? Absolutely. But we can’t. It’s unfortunate."

Will DeBoard, like everyone in charge of things throughout society these days, of course just passes the buck and uses the whole "there's nothing I can do about it". Nothing you can do about it, Will? Aren't you the section commissioner? Did you forget your title? I know you're just the assistant, but maybe you and Commissioner Mike Garrison can try actually doing your job. You guys are the SECTION COMMISSIONERS.

As Lincoln Coach Chris Roemer said (in the Sacramento Bee):
"A grown woman came on the floor in a defensive stance to guard my kid in play as she tried to tie the game."

Come on, Will. A grown woman (along with several others from the crowd), were on the court playing defense (some of them literally) for the last 8 seconds of the game. I'm not even talking about the McClatchy players. There were people from the crowd playing literal defense for 8 seconds and you say it is "unfortunate" and you "can't do anything about it"?

Lincoln standout Junae Mahan is an excellent dribbler, but she was trying to dribble past about 15 McClatchy defenders (including grown women, students, the actual 5 players who were supposed to be on the court, the McClatchy players that ran on the court off the bench, even the ref was in the way). Of course, Junae still got a shot off but you just say that situation is "unfortunate"? Come on, Will.

Will, a true leader would've said "This is completely unacceptable on all levels. I am going to make sure this situation gets rectified." But no, you said "there's nothing I can do about it".

Is "Midcourt Baby Mama" a character that you are OK with, Will? There's "nothing you can do about" a lady dancing while holding a baby at midcourt for the last 8 seconds of the game?

Mike Garrison and Will DeBoard need to step up and do their job. Saying there is "nothing they can do about it" is pathetic.

Will, if a grown woman broke into your house on Monday night and started dancing in the middle of your living room while holding a baby, would you be OK with that? If Mrs. DeBoard were to say "honey, can you please do something about Living Room Baby Mama", would you just say "sorry, honey, it's unfortunate that there is a lady dancing in the middle of our living room while holding a baby but there's nothing I can do about it"? No, you wouldn't, Will! You would do something about it. Because that's your job. Now step up and do your freakin' CIFSJS job!

 

[ankleassassin]

Regarding the fiasco that happened when Lincoln (Stockton) traveled to McClatchy on Monday night ...

CIF section assistant commissioner Will DeBoard said (in the Sacramento Bee):
“When the officials declare the game is over, it’s over. There isn’t anything we can do. The officials are in charge and it’s their judgment. We can’t reverse a result. Would it be great if we could play those final seconds on a clean court? Absolutely. But we can’t. It’s unfortunate."

Will DeBoard, like everyone in charge of things throughout society these days, of course just passes the buck and uses the whole "there's nothing I can do about it". Nothing you can do about it, Will? Aren't you the section commissioner? Did you forget your title? I know you're just the assistant, but maybe you and Commissioner Mike Garrison can try actually doing your job. You guys are the SECTION COMMISSIONERS.

As Lincoln Coach Chris Roemer said (in the Sacramento Bee):
"A grown woman came on the floor in a defensive stance to guard my kid in play as she tried to tie the game."

Come on, Will. A grown woman (along with several others from the crowd), were on the court playing defense (some of them literally) for the last 8 seconds of the game. I'm not even talking about the McClatchy players. There were people from the crowd playing literal defense for 8 seconds and you say it is "unfortunate" and you "can't do anything about it"?

Lincoln standout Junae Mahan is an excellent dribbler, but she was trying to dribble past about 15 McClatchy defenders (including grown women, students, the actual 5 players who were supposed to be on the court, the McClatchy players that ran on the court off the bench, even the ref was in the way). Of course, Junae still got a shot off but you just say that situation is "unfortunate"? Come on, Will.

Will, a true leader would've said "This is completely unacceptable on all levels. I am going to make sure this situation gets rectified." But no, you said "there's nothing I can do about it".

Is "Midcourt Baby Mama" a character that you are OK with, Will? There's "nothing you can do about" a lady dancing while holding a baby at midcourt for the last 8 seconds of the game?

Mike Garrison and Will DeBoard need to step up and do their job. Saying there is "nothing they can do about it" is pathetic.

Will, if a grown woman broke into your house on Monday night and started dancing in the middle of your living room while holding a baby, would you be OK with that? If Mrs. DeBoard were to say "honey, can you please do something about Living Room Baby Mama", would you just say "sorry, honey, it's unfortunate that there is a lady dancing in the middle of our living room while holding a baby but there's nothing I can do about it"? No, you wouldn't, Will! You would do something about it. Because that's your job. Now step up and do your freakin' CIFSJS job!

How do you know she is a baby momma? What is the definition of a baby momma?

 

[Streak One]

As bad as the situation is (and it is very bad), I think the section has their hands tied based on the rules. Is there something they could actually do?

That said, there should be some punishment for McClatchy. The end of the game wasn't the first time the crowd was an issue.

 

[Cheeto]

How do you know she is a baby momma? What is the definition of a baby momma?

Well, she had a baby in her hands. I assume she was the mother of the baby in question. I guess she could’ve been the aunt, cousin, friend, etc. But I just decided to go with mother. And Mama is short for mother. Hence, “Midcourt Baby Mama”.

 

[ankleassassin]

Well, she had a baby in her hands. I assume she was the mother of the baby in question. I guess she could’ve been the aunt, cousin, friend, etc. But I just decided to go with mother. And Mama is short for mother. Hence, “Midcourt Baby Mama”.

k

 

[ankleassassin]

Where in the rule book does it say a game can be replayed after conclusion?

 

[Cheeto]

Where in the rule book does it say a game can be replayed after conclusion?

I will answer your question with a two-part question … Where in the rule book does it say that, during the last 8 seconds of a section playoff game, defenders may include referees, bench players, and crowd members? Where in the rule book does it say that, during the last 8 seconds of a section playoff game, ladies may dance at midcourt (baby holding also permissible)?

 

[ankleassassin]

I will answer your question with a two-part question … Where in the rule book does it say that, during the last 8 seconds of a section playoff game, defenders may include referees, bench players, and crowd members? Where in the rule book does it say that, during the last 8 seconds of a section playoff game, ladies may dance at midcourt (baby holding also permissible)?

But what exactly do you want done? That is why I asked for you to cite your source on the options. We are clear on what the penalty should be, however that cannot be done retroactively. So everyone's hand tied here. Unless you can find the ruling.

 

[northbaybbguru]

this reminds me of the story about Groucho and the other Marx brothers playing golf one summer afternoon at the Beverly Hills Country Club back in the day. It was a very hot day and they decided to take their shirts off. Sure enough some time later here comes the marshal to implore them to put their shirts back on and pointing to the passage in the BHCC rule book explicitly stating shirts are to be worn at all times. The Brothers reluctantly put their shirts back on , the marshal left and they played on........ sometime later another call comes in that the Brothers are back at it again. The marshal heads back out ready to read them the riot act and comes up on the 4 some......and they are playing WITHOUT THEIR PANTS!... Groucho proceeds to ask the marshal to show them in the rule book where it says they have to play with their pants on!!! Needless to say the marshal let them play with their shirts off the rest of the round. And of course the rule was added shortly after.

 

[shcguy92]

Well, if the obstruction occured while in regulation time, WHY DID THE REFEREEES NOT STOP THE GAME until the court was cleared. Assessed the T to McClatchey and thrn finish the last 8 seconds?

 

[MC415]

The refs absolutely fricked this up but that’s life it’s not fair……nothing can be done now and refs maybe reprimanded refereeing playoff games and maybe some Mcclatchey punishment for not controlling their crowd

 

[northbaybbguru]

Well, if the obstruction occured while in regulation time, WHY DID THE REFEREEES NOT STOP THE GAME until the court was cleared. Assessed the T to McClatchey and thrn finish the last 8 seconds?

the worst part about it was the girl from Lincoln literally dribbled right into the ref (as she was trying to avoid the crowd) in that last series. How did THAT ref NOT stop the action and (at least) clear the floor?

inexcusable...

 

[ankleassassin]

the worst part about it was the girl from Lincoln literally dribbled right into the ref (as she was trying to avoid the crowd) in that last series. How did THAT ref NOT stop the action and (at least) clear the floor?

inexcusable...

he thought the game was over until he cleared the scene and noticed his partner still watching the ball

 

[Willtalk]

They should eliminate McClatchy home play off games for next years playoffs. They probably will not have any this year anyway.

 

[Cheeto]

But what exactly do you want done? That is why I asked for you to cite your source on the options. We are clear on what the penalty should be, however that cannot be done retroactively. So everyone's hand tied here. Unless you can find the ruling.

ankleassassin, I do understand your question and I think it is a very good one. I truly appreciate the dialogue.

The game was on Monday. I think that on Tuesday the section should have arranged for both teams to meet up to replay those last 8 seconds. There would have had to have been the appropriate technical(s) assessed first, of course. I was not at the game, but I was told by someone who was that McClatchy had been warned earlier in the game for a fan (or fans?) being on the court during play.

Of course, it had to happen on Tuesday since Wednesday (last night ) was the next round of playoffs. And of course, it didn't happen as we all know and probably expected. That's why I wrote the post that I did yesterday.

As far as what rule I am citing, sadly I know of no rule. But the thing is ... I don't know of a rule prohibiting it either. (There may of course be one and if there is then I am ignorant of it.)

Some may say, "you can't just force two teams to meet up last minute like that". Here's something that happened on the boys side that isn't the same exact thing but it goes to my point that the people in charge have the power to make things like this happen ... In early January, Modesto Christian boys were supposed to travel to Tokay for a league game against Tokay boys. MC called Tokay that day and said they wouldn't make it due to not having enough players available. Tokay tried to reschedule the game a couple of times but it didn't work out for MC. The game was ruled a "no contest" a couple of weeks later. At the end of league, Lincoln boys and MC boys both had just one league loss. But since the Tokay - MC game was never played, Lincoln had more wins and was given the title of "league champion" with MC given second place. MC didn't like this outcome and appealed. This happened over the weekend of Feb 12-13. The last league game was Fri, Feb 11. The people in charge (not sure who exactly made this decision, but my point is that some leaders do make decisions like this) decided that the Tokay - MC game must now be played (since MC wanted to be called league co-champs). Tokay had already handed in their uniforms by now and their season was over. But on Mon, Feb 14 Tokay got a call saying that they must host a game that evening to play MC. Tokay ultimately just said no (or quite possibly "screw you") and MC got the forfeit win and got to be called co-champs. Personally, I actually didn't think that was a good decision (since MC was fine with the "no contest" until over a month later), but that is an example of a leader (again, not sure if it was a section leader or a league leader in this case) stepping up and making a decision about something instead of just saying "there's nothing I can do about it".

 

[ankleassassin]

ankleassassin, I do understand your question and I think it is a very good one. I truly appreciate the dialogue.

The game was on Monday. I think that on Tuesday the section should have arranged for both teams to meet up to replay those last 8 seconds. There would have had to have been the appropriate technical(s) assessed first, of course. I was not at the game, but I was told by someone who was that McClatchy had been warned earlier in the game for a fan (or fans?) being on the court during play.

Of course, it had to happen on Tuesday since Wednesday (last night ) was the next round of playoffs. And of course, it didn't happen as we all know and probably expected. That's why I wrote the post that I did yesterday.

As far as what rule I am citing, sadly I know of no rule. But the thing is ... I don't know of a rule prohibiting it either. (There may of course be one and if there is then I am ignorant of it.)

Some may say, "you can't just force two teams to meet up last minute like that". Here's something that happened on the boys side that isn't the same exact thing but it goes to my point that the people in charge have the power to make things like this happen ... In early January, Modesto Christian boys were supposed to travel to Tokay for a league game against Tokay boys. MC called Tokay that day and said they wouldn't make it due to not having enough players available. Tokay tried to reschedule the game a couple of times but it didn't work out for MC. The game was ruled a "no contest" a couple of weeks later. At the end of league, Lincoln boys and MC boys both had just one league loss. But since the Tokay - MC game was never played, Lincoln had more wins and was given the title of "league champion" with MC given second place. MC didn't like this outcome and appealed. This happened over the weekend of Feb 12-13. The last league game was Fri, Feb 11. The people in charge (not sure who exactly made this decision, but my point is that some leaders do make decisions like this) decided that the Tokay - MC game must now be played (since MC wanted to be called league co-champs). Tokay had already handed in their uniforms by now and their season was over. But on Mon, Feb 14 Tokay got a call saying that they must host a game that evening to play MC. Tokay ultimately just said no (or quite possibly "screw you") and MC got the forfeit win and got to be called co-champs. Personally, I actually didn't think that was a good decision (since MC was fine with the "no contest" until over a month later), but that is an example of a leader (again, not sure if it was a section leader or a league leader in this case) stepping up and making a decision about something instead of just saying "there's nothing I can do about it".

That is a good job of coming together to fix a 'problem' but it is not the same. The issue with the Mcclatchy situation is the officials deemed the game over. They would have had to blow the whistle and stop play at the point the fans came on. That is why Will is saying there is nothing he can do about it. A better example is the 'election was stolen' crowd. They still think voting process can be changed after the result.

 

[ankleassassin]

ankleassassin, I do understand your question and I think it is a very good one. I truly appreciate the dialogue.

The game was on Monday. I think that on Tuesday the section should have arranged for both teams to meet up to replay those last 8 seconds. There would have had to have been the appropriate technical(s) assessed first, of course. I was not at the game, but I was told by someone who was that McClatchy had been warned earlier in the game for a fan (or fans?) being on the court during play.

Of course, it had to happen on Tuesday since Wednesday (last night ) was the next round of playoffs. And of course, it didn't happen as we all know and probably expected. That's why I wrote the post that I did yesterday.

As far as what rule I am citing, sadly I know of no rule. But the thing is ... I don't know of a rule prohibiting it either. (There may of course be one and if there is then I am ignorant of it.)

Some may say, "you can't just force two teams to meet up last minute like that". Here's something that happened on the boys side that isn't the same exact thing but it goes to my point that the people in charge have the power to make things like this happen ... In early January, Modesto Christian boys were supposed to travel to Tokay for a league game against Tokay boys. MC called Tokay that day and said they wouldn't make it due to not having enough players available. Tokay tried to reschedule the game a couple of times but it didn't work out for MC. The game was ruled a "no contest" a couple of weeks later. At the end of league, Lincoln boys and MC boys both had just one league loss. But since the Tokay - MC game was never played, Lincoln had more wins and was given the title of "league champion" with MC given second place. MC didn't like this outcome and appealed. This happened over the weekend of Feb 12-13. The last league game was Fri, Feb 11. The people in charge (not sure who exactly made this decision, but my point is that some leaders do make decisions like this) decided that the Tokay - MC game must now be played (since MC wanted to be called league co-champs). Tokay had already handed in their uniforms by now and their season was over. But on Mon, Feb 14 Tokay got a call saying that they must host a game that evening to play MC. Tokay ultimately just said no (or quite possibly "screw you") and MC got the forfeit win and got to be called co-champs. Personally, I actually didn't think that was a good decision (since MC was fine with the "no contest" until over a month later), but that is an example of a leader (again, not sure if it was a section leader or a league leader in this case) stepping up and making a decision about something instead of just saying "there's nothing I can do about it".

If I were the Lions coach I wouldnt agree to meet up either. Its the playoffs. I am taking my win and going to the next round.

 

[ankleassassin]

So if at the end of the 3rd quarter the referees declared the game was over and left the court and called the game would the game be over? Of course not, so what is the difference between eight minute and eight seconds?

Actually, the game would be over. If there was legit reason to end the game it would be over.

 

[Cheeto]

If I were the Lions coach I wouldnt agree to meet up either. Its the playoffs. I am taking my win and going to the next round.

But if the section said they must meet up and McClatchy refused then McClatchy would have to take a forfeit loss. Just like Tokay boys refused and took a forfeit loss to MC.

I do believe that the commissioners honestly think that there is nothing they can do about it. However, my argument is that true leaders would not think that, they would step up and figure something out instead of hiding behind the whole "there's nothing I can do" argument. (Believe it or not, despite my original post, I have nothing against Will DeBoard or Mike Garrison. I have never met them in fact. I'm sure they are probably nice guys.)

Ultimately, ankleassassin, you made some very good points. And I have no precedence off the top of my head to warrant my point. And ultimately the section agrees with you that nothing should happen in this case (at least not retroactively, but surely some sort of punishment should happen with McClatchy moving forward). Anyways, have a good day, ankleassassin. I enjoyed the back and forth.

 

[cptmycpa]

They should eliminate McClatchy home play off games for next years playoffs. They probably will not have any this year anyway.

You need to fit the punishment with the crime. The refs messed up big time. Some (half a dozen) fans went on the court, "possibly" thinking the shot clock ended the game, including the refs. Some people think that McClatchy should forfeit the playoffs. Others want to ban them from next season's home playoff games. How about McClatchy's BOYS playoff games--do they get banned too. Do you really punish the McClatchy team and players for what happened by making them forfeit--of course not. The hyperbole here is too much. McClatchy's gym is small old school. Maybe you make the spectators sit in the upper stands on the opposite side and put the team benches and scoring table on the other side of the court. This would provide more distance for the fans from the court.

 

[ankleassassin]

But if the section said they must meet up and McClatchy refused then McClatchy would have to take a forfeit loss. Just like Tokay boys refused and took a forfeit loss to MC.

I do believe that the commissioners honestly think that there is nothing they can do about it. However, my argument is that true leaders would not think that, they would step up and figure something out instead of hiding behind the whole "there's nothing I can do" argument. (Believe it or not, despite my original post, I have nothing against Will DeBoard or Mike Garrison. I have never met them in fact. I'm sure they are probably nice guys.)

Ultimately, ankleassassin, you made some very good points. And I have no precedence off the top of my head to warrant my point. And ultimately the section agrees with you that nothing should happen in this case (at least not retroactively, but surely some sort of punishment should happen with McClatchy moving forward). Anyways, have a good day, ankleassassin. I enjoyed the back and forth.

Blame is on plenty of people in the situation. But most of them were at the game that evening.

 

[NorCalRef]

I agree that the best course of action would have been for the officials to realize the error (their incorrect assumption that the shot clock was the game clock), stop play, clear the court (or clear the gym of all fans if they felt it necessary), and then replay the last 6 or so seconds from the inbound after the made basket. A technical foul isn't automatic and the NFHS rule book advises extreme caution in assessing a technical foul for fan involvement. In this case, the fans came on the court because they likely thought the game was over - the same error that the official(s) made. While I don't excuse the actions of the fans, the most important thing is to give the players an opportunity to have the game decided on the court in a fair manner.

The officials error was compounded when they left the visual confines of the court. They had the opportunity to rectify this situation up until leaving the court. Even though this is not a "correctable error" as defined in the rulebook, the rules do give the referee leeway to resolve an issue not directly covered in the rule book (such as this). However, once the officials leave the visual confines of the court, their jurisdiction over the game is terminated and the final score is deemed approved.

There is a provision in the NFHS rules that says "...state associations may intercede in the event of unusual incidents after the official's jurisdiction has ended or in the event that a contest is terminated prior to the conclusion of regulation play". This provision is intended to cover situations like a fight breaking out after the officials leave the court or officials choosing to terminate a game prior to the end of the 4th quarter (maybe in the case of unruly fans where officials deem that the contest cannot continue). This provision, however, doesn't permit a state association to set aside judgments made by the officials on the court, with the exception of possibly up/downgrading an ejection after the fact based on the game report submitted by officials.

This situation has been on my mind since I first heard about it. This is something that should be included as a case play in all official's association training meetings prior to next season as we simply can't let something like this happen again. I'm bothered enough by it that I even scanned the CIF-SJS by-laws to see if there are any provisions to protest a contest. Amazingly enough, the word "protest" does show up for several different sports, however there does not appear to be a protest provision when it comes to basketball. This is likely why the section is saying that they don't have an avenue to rectify this situation once the officials deem the game final. I surely hope that they required the officials involved and the assigning association to write a detailed game report explaining the situation, but I don't think there is any way - even if the officials admit error in their game report - for the outcome of the game to be set aside and/or play continued.

 

[Cheeto]

I agree that the best course of action would have been for the officials to realize the error (their incorrect assumption that the shot clock was the game clock), stop play, clear the court (or clear the gym of all fans if they felt it necessary), and then replay the last 6 or so seconds from the inbound after the made basket. A technical foul isn't automatic and the NFHS rule book advises extreme caution in assessing a technical foul for fan involvement. In this case, the fans came on the court because they likely thought the game was over - the same error that the official(s) made. While I don't excuse the actions of the fans, the most important thing is to give the players an opportunity to have the game decided on the court in a fair manner.

The officials error was compounded when they left the visual confines of the court. They had the opportunity to rectify this situation up until leaving the court. Even though this is not a "correctable error" as defined in the rulebook, the rules do give the referee leeway to resolve an issue not directly covered in the rule book (such as this). However, once the officials leave the visual confines of the court, their jurisdiction over the game is terminated and the final score is deemed approved.

There is a provision in the NFHS rules that says "...state associations may intercede in the event of unusual incidents after the official's jurisdiction has ended or in the event that a contest is terminated prior to the conclusion of regulation play". This provision is intended to cover situations like a fight breaking out after the officials leave the court or officials choosing to terminate a game prior to the end of the 4th quarter (maybe in the case of unruly fans where officials deem that the contest cannot continue). This provision, however, doesn't permit a state association to set aside judgments made by the officials on the court, with the exception of possibly up/downgrading an ejection after the fact based on the game report submitted by officials.

This situation has been on my mind since I first heard about it. This is something that should be included as a case play in all official's association training meetings prior to next season as we simply can't let something like this happen again. I'm bothered enough by it that I even scanned the CIF-SJS by-laws to see if there are any provisions to protest a contest. Amazingly enough, the word "protest" does show up for several different sports, however there does not appear to be a protest provision when it comes to basketball. This is likely why the section is saying that they don't have an avenue to rectify this situation once the officials deem the game final. I surely hope that they required the officials involved and the assigning association to write a detailed game report explaining the situation, but I don't think there is any way - even if the officials admit error in their game report - for the outcome of the game to be set aside and/or play continued.

Wow. Very good post. Lots of great info there. Thanks, NorCalRef.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

Bottom line, once a game is over, it's over. And that will never change, as it should be.

The refs obviously screwed up so horribly... like the worst screw up in the history of officiating. It's such an obvious course of action they should have taken. There is no explanation or excuse that they can give that would make any sense.

The huge issue now is the messaging. Will Deboard is basically throwing up his hands and saying there is no recourse.. .and he feels so sad for the kids, and it's unfortunate. This was what he said in the Sac Bee, and it looks worse when he's interviewed live on kcra.

What he SHOULD say is:
There is no recourse as far as the result, but we will investigate this to see what happens, and take the appropriate actions if we find a cause to: including sanctions and suspensions. We will look at the teams, coaches, administration, and the officials. Anytime fans enter the field of play, we take that very seriously, and will work to understand how this was allowed to happen, so that this won't happen again.


we would want him to say: the officials f'd up.... lincoln got screwed. but he can't say that without an official investigation.

 

[CW Golden Eagles]

It isn't in the officiating rule book to go back and replay the last 8 seconds of the game. There are obviously rules about fans and players on the court during live play, but those were not enforced.

But it would seem CIF could rule for them to replay the last 8 seconds.

Several years back, two teams in our league had a game where the home team had a player pick up their 5th foul but the home book didn't report it to the officials. So the girl got to remain in the game the last two possessions of a one point game with the home team winning. The visiting team had video proof of the 5 fouls being reported and the league made the two teams go back and replay the 4.2 seconds without the player on the floor.

Not sure what ruling allowed that scenario above to happen, but there seems like the CIF has the jurisdiction to do right by the game and both teams and have them replay the last 8 seconds since the officials did not enforce several rules and it led directly to an inequitable possession by Lincoln. Sadly, it's too late now.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

the league made the two teams go back and replay the 4.2 seconds without the player on the floor.

wow.... That is the only time I heard of that happening in any sport.

 

[Streak One]

It isn't in the officiating rule book to go back and replay the last 8 seconds of the game. There are obviously rules about fans and players on the court during live play, but those were not enforced.

But it would seem CIF could rule for them to replay the last 8 seconds.

Several years back, two teams in our league had a game where the home team had a player pick up their 5th foul but the home book didn't report it to the officials. So the girl got to remain in the game the last two possessions of a one point game with the home team winning. The visiting team had video proof of the 5 fouls being reported and the league made the two teams go back and replay the 4.2 seconds without the player on the floor.

Not sure what ruling allowed that scenario above to happen, but there seems like the CIF has the jurisdiction to do right by the game and both teams and have them replay the last 8 seconds since the officials did not enforce several rules and it led directly to an inequitable possession by Lincoln. Sadly, it's too late now.

Thanks for sharing. This is really interesting. Did they go back next day?

 

[ankleassassin]

It isn't in the officiating rule book to go back and replay the last 8 seconds of the game. There are obviously rules about fans and players on the court during live play, but those were not enforced.

But it would seem CIF could rule for them to replay the last 8 seconds.

Several years back, two teams in our league had a game where the home team had a player pick up their 5th foul but the home book didn't report it to the officials. So the girl got to remain in the game the last two possessions of a one point game with the home team winning. The visiting team had video proof of the 5 fouls being reported and the league made the two teams go back and replay the 4.2 seconds without the player on the floor.

Not sure what ruling allowed that scenario above to happen, but there seems like the CIF has the jurisdiction to do right by the game and both teams and have them replay the last 8 seconds since the officials did not enforce several rules and it led directly to an inequitable possession by Lincoln. Sadly, it's too late now.

so can they also call the block/charge on the 2nd to last possession?

 

[ankleassassin]

Bottom line, once a game is over, it's over. And that will never change, as it should be.

The refs obviously screwed up so horribly... like the worst screw up in the history of officiating. It's such an obvious course of action they should have taken. There is no explanation or excuse that they can give that would make any sense.

The huge issue now is the messaging. Will Deboard is basically throwing up his hands and saying there is no recourse.. .and he feels so sad for the kids, and it's unfortunate. This was what he said in the Sac Bee, and it looks worse when he's interviewed live on kcra.

What he SHOULD say is:
There is no recourse as far as the result, but we will investigate this to see what happens, and take the appropriate actions if we find a cause to: including sanctions and suspensions. We will look at the teams, coaches, administration, and the officials. Anytime fans enter the field of play, we take that very seriously, and will work to understand how this was allowed to happen, so that this won't happen again.


we would want him to say: the officials f'd up.... lincoln got screwed. but he can't say that without an official investigation.

the worse call in officiating was the non call on the tuck rule. and i aint even a raiders fan.

 

[kiddman32]

My 2 cents: It's too late to do anything about it now, especially since the next round has been played, but:

McClatchy should do whatever they can to keep such a thing from happening again, somehow... And other schools should pay attention to see what is done and see if they can apply similar actions at their own gyms if deemed needed.

Rearranging the seating would be good, but I haven't been there and the videos I've seen don't show the gym setup. No idea whether this is feasible, and I doubt the district has the money to do major renovations to the gym if that were necessary... So it's more likely that vigorous crowd control and STICKING TO IT is probably the most workable solution.

And if this or any other school can't keep their crowds under control, they should have to play home games in front of empty stands, possibly for quite awhile, like all of next season... There is precedent for this: A number of years ago, many if not all Oakland public schools had to play their games with empty stands after a number of incidents had occurred. Seems to me this condition lasted most of or all of the rest of the season.

 

[northbaybbguru]

No home games for playoffs next year seems like a fair penalty for not controlling their fans.
Also no fans in the first row/on court going forward maybe?

 

[kiddman32]

No home games for playoffs next year seems like a fair penalty for not controlling their fans.
Also no fans in the first row/on court going forward maybe?

Yup, much more concise than I said it, but yup...

 

[shcguy92]

I kay be dumb but don't most schools have a red light that goes on when the buzzer and horn go off to dignall the end of a period? I mean when I played almost EVERY venue had a red light behind the backboard whether on the backboard itself or on the wall beneath the scoreboard. So even if the crowd was loud, the red light was the indicator the period ended. Also in many places arent the numbers on the shot clock and the regulation clock different colors? Also you as an.official should know the difference between shot clock and game clock.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

My 2 cents: It's too late to do anything about it now, especially since the next round has been played, but:

McClatchy should do whatever they can to keep such a thing from happening again, somehow... And other schools should pay attention to see what is done and see if they can apply similar actions at their own gyms if deemed needed.

Rearranging the seating would be good, but I haven't been there and the videos I've seen don't show the gym setup. No idea whether this is feasible, and I doubt the district has the money to do major renovations to the gym if that were necessary... So it's more likely that vigorous crowd control and STICKING TO IT is probably the most workable solution.

And if this or any other school can't keep their crowds under control, they should have to play home games in front of empty stands, possibly for quite awhile, like all of next season... There is precedent for this: A number of years ago, many if not all Oakland public schools had to play their games with empty stands after a number of incidents had occurred. Seems to me this condition lasted most of or all of the rest of the season.

90% of gyms are set up with a front row bleacher feet away from the sideline... with zero ability to restrict anyone from stepping onto the court. And 99.9% of the games have not had this issue. So that's not the problem. And retrofitting gyms is not the solution.

Specifically, McClatchy's gym... it's an odd configuration. The far side, opposite the benches... it's only 5 or 6 rows of bleachers. Then the bench side, it's elevated above the court, so you have to go up a flight of stairs... but it's only 10 or 15 rows.... so the entire gym capacity is a pretty small number. You could close off the bleacher side... but then you'd have a pretty small crowd... for boys games, this would be a HUGE issue. But again, this is not an issue for 99% of home games. And even if it were, it's still the officials who have to regulate that if it affects play.

and empty stands only hurts the entire athletic department.. which penalizes hundreds of kids that probably don't even know what happened.

playoff sanctions make the most sense (either no home games, or a year playoff ban), along with a strong statement from the section office acknowledging the wrong and apologizing to Lincoln, and then reprimand the officials... either ban them or ban them from varsity games might be better, considering we have an official shortage. if you ban them from varsity, they might just remove themselves from officiating altogether. (of course, after an official investigation)

 

[NorCalRef]

I kay be dumb but don't most schools have a red light that goes on when the buzzer and horn go off to dignall the end of a period? I mean when I played almost EVERY venue had a red light behind the backboard whether on the backboard itself or on the wall beneath the scoreboard. So even if the crowd was loud, the red light was the indicator the period ended. Also in many places arent the numbers on the shot clock and the regulation clock different colors? Also you as an.official should know the difference between shot clock and game clock.

Unfortunately, many/most schools do not have the red lights installed on/behind the backboards. As you can see in this video, this school does not. The shot clock is above the basket and separate from the game clock. There is no confusion between which clock is which. The horns is some gyms differ between the shot and game clock which can also sometimes help. As best I can tell by listening to the videos, the horns sound the same in this gym.

Quite simply, it was an error made by the officials. No excuses. No explaining the situation. You have to mentally prepare in advance of each situation so that you are not caught by surprise when this comes up in a game. There is communication that a crew should have in game to remind each other of differentials between a shot and game clock and ensure awareness. This is something that should also be covered in a pregame. I can't speak to whether or not this communication took place in this game; I can tell you that this communication happens in every game that I officiate and it is what we train ourselves to do.

We all have opportunities to learn from our mistakes and that's something that we as high school officials need to commit to doing in this case as well. I feel terrible for the players involved and I'm not in any way associated with these schools, officials on the court, or the group that assigned them.

 

[becoolpt55]

We have video…. Ban the fans who
Ran into the court…for at least next year

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

We have video…. Ban the fans who
Ran into the court…for at least next year

the baby too????

 

[bayareagbballfan]

Forget about the fans, ban the refs from officiating any future high school games. Yeah, mistakes happen. Ok, you missed the fact that there was a shot clock/game clock differential. Ok, then you mistakenly thought the shot clock going off was the game clock going off. Ok, then you didn't you notice the 2nd horn going off 8 seconds later and the players were still playing before the 2nd horn going off? Then you ran off the court and denied any responsibility?

 

[becoolpt55]

the baby too????

Nope baby can still come to games… he or she was at mid court under duress

 

[becoolpt55]

Who were these refs … Paul C please. Don’t tell me you worked this shit show