WOW THE HAMMER GETS DROPPED ON SERRA!!
- Thread starter PAL95
- Start date
The Serra December decision was poorly thought out and poorly implemented. Logically and in all fairness, it should have been decided prior to the 2014 playoffs so another school could have taken Serra's place from the get-go. But, no, Serra took its place in the Open Division, lost its opener, played its first consolation game and then, out of the blue, vetoed the next game. Bad move. The arguments about "safety" and all of the rest rang hollow because of those first two games. CCS has every right to drop the hammer on the Padres. Still, you can almost sniff the lawyers circling.
This post was edited on 1/22 6:01 PM by colhenrylives
This post was edited on 1/22 6:01 PM by colhenrylives
Serra will appeal. I think Serra could have a basis for getting it overturned with the safety argument, but then that opens up another can of worms if it is overturned. If Serra and Milpitas couldn't agree on implementing game rules of engagement, they may have an argument of safety concerns which they brought up. Serra did forfeit the game and it shows up as a loss. Teams do have a right to forfeit a game...there is precedence for teams not having enough depth or concerning view of risk of safety. While the section may not like it, I think they could lose if it comes out that Serra and Milpitas couldn't agree on limiting the starters. The consolation playoff was only a trial as well. It is reasonable for Serra to play costs related to cancelling. If this goes to a court hearing, I think Serra would win.
@NorCalSportsFan - Ditto. Expect Serra to participate in the playoffs next year. CCS trying to be NCAA or the NFL. It's High School Sports! Move on...
"The entire athletic program,
all levels of all sports, of Junipero Serra is placed on probation
beginning immediately and concluding after the last contest involving
any." Is it that time of M...
This post was edited on 1/22 7:34 PM by HSS75
"The entire athletic program,
all levels of all sports, of Junipero Serra is placed on probation
beginning immediately and concluding after the last contest involving
any." Is it that time of M...
This post was edited on 1/22 7:34 PM by HSS75
I did get a chuckle out of this if nothing else as Nancy Lazenby Blaser lost all credibility several years ago with similar ridiculous decisions & rulings. As for Serra being ruled out of the playoffs the next 2 years that remains to be seen. I for one think the CCS needs Serra & the WCAL more than they need the CCS as without the WCAL there would be no Open Divison Period.
Perhaps its time for Nancy to move on to a hobby she actually knows something about.
Perhaps its time for Nancy to move on to a hobby she actually knows something about.
Rmbr. Agree. It's all about $$$ for the consolation. Open Hoops consolation also sucks. CCS just pay a fine to recoup Milpitas loss at the gate/concession and be done with it. Commissioner also did a poor job in the decision about Riordan's Robert Colton's hoops eligibility. It's all about the $$$ and her "power". She's lost touch because it should be about the student-athletes
This is bull plain and simple. Great job punishing high school kids for not participating in some meaningless consolation game.Sad part is if they stick to the punishment, they will be punishing some kids that weren't even on the team when this occurred, how dumb are these people! I know when I played high school football, the one thing that got me going was knowing that at the end of the year all my hard work throughout the summer and season would be reward with the opportunity to go out and compete for a section championship. Let me say that those experiences are some of my fondest, and most exciting memories about playing high school football. I remember standing on the sideline before every high school playoff game listening to the national anthem, and getting goosebump. Now your going to deny kids the opportunity to get this once in a lifetime experience because they didn't play and in some case weren't even part of the team that didn't play in some silly meaningless game such a joke.
Not to mention the fact that they even have these games is a complete joke. I would love to see whoever came up with these consolation games, stand up in front of the players, coaches, and parents and explain the reasoning for playing these games. Your essentially diluting the meaning of playoff football by having consolation games, what is next are we going to start taking away section plaques, and handing out participation trophies instead to every team that qualifies for the playoffs. Then there is the fact that we restrict summer practice times, for the reason of safety, now they come up with the great idea to add one more meaningless game at the end of the season, what hypocrites. Get a clue and get it together. These adults making these decision should be removed from their post because they are clearly not concerned about making intelligent decision when it comes to the fairness, and well being of the student athletes that they are suppose to be looking out for.
Not to mention the fact that they even have these games is a complete joke. I would love to see whoever came up with these consolation games, stand up in front of the players, coaches, and parents and explain the reasoning for playing these games. Your essentially diluting the meaning of playoff football by having consolation games, what is next are we going to start taking away section plaques, and handing out participation trophies instead to every team that qualifies for the playoffs. Then there is the fact that we restrict summer practice times, for the reason of safety, now they come up with the great idea to add one more meaningless game at the end of the season, what hypocrites. Get a clue and get it together. These adults making these decision should be removed from their post because they are clearly not concerned about making intelligent decision when it comes to the fairness, and well being of the student athletes that they are suppose to be looking out for.
Best two points made on here that should help Serra win any appeal. (1) Other teams forfeit games during the season, so what is wrong with Serra forfeiting a game. Sure their timing sucked but CCS isn't penalizing them for timing. And (2) the penalty affects the lives of the current juniors, sophomores and even freshmen. Is it fair to prevent them from being involved in future play-off games because of what the current administration did? Sure there is precedent, especially at the college level but does that make it right?
Want to penalize Serra and make all CCS members fear making a similar forfeiting a play-off game decision in the future? No penalty over future play-off participation. But Serra pays some money to Milpitas and $25,000 to CCS.
Want to penalize Serra and make all CCS members fear making a similar forfeiting a play-off game decision in the future? No penalty over future play-off participation. But Serra pays some money to Milpitas and $25,000 to CCS.
There is no precedent in football for having a consolation bracket in any section in any state. In football because of the potential for injury and just how it is done when you lose it is over. Time to go to another sport or heal injuries from the season and that last game that you just lost.
Maybe Green Bay after losing to Seattle in a heartbreaker should now play Indianapolis for 3rd place so that the owners can make money. The high school season is long enough as it is without FORCING schools and their players to play one or in fact two more meaningless games. Palma was the winner by losing for sure. The school and the coach did the right thing by considering their players first when Milpitas was going to play 300 pound starters against Freshman linemen. Maybe Milpitas should be given a suspension for wanting to get to 12 meaningless wins at the expense of JV and Frosh players?
Maybe Green Bay after losing to Seattle in a heartbreaker should now play Indianapolis for 3rd place so that the owners can make money. The high school season is long enough as it is without FORCING schools and their players to play one or in fact two more meaningless games. Palma was the winner by losing for sure. The school and the coach did the right thing by considering their players first when Milpitas was going to play 300 pound starters against Freshman linemen. Maybe Milpitas should be given a suspension for wanting to get to 12 meaningless wins at the expense of JV and Frosh players?
Does the CCS consider that Serra may have multiple football players who may also play winter sports? Imagine being the Serra basketball coach and not having a hand full of players for try-outs and first few games of the season because they are off playing in a "losers" bracket and their season is done. The CCS is a mess, just ask "D1" Sacred Heart Prep.
Good points made Spartanwhoknows. The criteria used by Commissioner "Nancy" for her decision is flawed from the start.
No one wanted the consolation bracket and to play for a 3rd place trophy in the first place which was common knowledge. Nancy believed that because Serra played the first round & 2nd round they had no basis for forfeiting the 3rd game. First of all the first round was to advance to the semi-finals to play to be in the championship game. Serra lost & played Palma in the first meaningless consolation game. Here is where the criteria changed. The game was regarded as meaningless by both the Serra & Palma coach.
They discussed the game before hand and agreed many of their starters would be in street clothes and they would be playing frosh & soph's up from the freshman & JV teams to get a look at them for next year - deal! The Milpitas game changed that concept apparently as the Milpitas coach & fans were hungry for a record setting win [season record win] & no conditions were to be agreed upon prior to the game. When that became clear at the last minute Coach Walsh opted out of the game rather than play freshmen & soph's against one of the biggest & most physical teams in CCS - is this starting to make any sense to you yet Nancy??
In the end I can see Serra being responsible to Milpitas & CCS for any damages in regards to lost income, but not some ridiculous banning from post-season play for 2 full years.
The only question you have to ask yourself is: Who was more concerned & looking out for the well being of the younger players on the Serra football team, Coach Walsh or Commissioner Nancy?
Under the circumstances there was nothing to be gained from this scrimmage game for 3rd place.
Morons. Simple, these people have no reason running the CCS. First practices are limited to protect the players, great idea, but then they want to extend the back end of the season for what, more money? Using the kids as a vehicle to generate more money, why? Where does the money go, back to the schools? No amount of money is worth an injured kid. If I were the parents, I'd sue the section, why are you forcing the kids to participate in meaningless games? It's irresponsible of the section leaders to approve of such a program, consolation games? You're reducing practices on one hand, but doing a money grab with the other.
Morons. Simple, these people have no reason running the CCS. First practices are limited to protect the players, great idea, but then they want to extend the back end of the season for what, more money? Using the kids as a vehicle to generate more money, why? Where does the money go, back to the schools? No amount of money is worth an injured kid. If I were the parents, I'd sue the section, why are you forcing the kids to participate in meaningless games? It's irresponsible of the section leaders to approve of such a program, consolation games? You're reducing practices on one hand, but doing a money grab with the other.
You hit it dead on Rmbr26. The agreement with the Palma and Serra staffs alleviated most (not all) injury concerns. There was no such agreement with the Milpitas staff as they were out for blood. The underclassman at Serra would have been demoralized. Even the biggest Milpitas homers would have quickly realized that the game was a sham once it started.
No doubt Nancy had a bone to pick with Coach Walsh. All this animosity stems from when Coach Walsh was the WCAL rep 5-6 years ago and suggested back then that the Open was a bad idea. He was promptly removed as the WCAL spokesman by Nancy.
Personal vendettas die hard. Congrats Nancy, you win!
No doubt Nancy had a bone to pick with Coach Walsh. All this animosity stems from when Coach Walsh was the WCAL rep 5-6 years ago and suggested back then that the Open was a bad idea. He was promptly removed as the WCAL spokesman by Nancy.
Personal vendettas die hard. Congrats Nancy, you win!
CAN YOU SAY TRANSFERS!!! This will only make Bellarmine, Valley Christian and other CCS programs stronger.
Nancy Blaser should be fired. It's not just this situation, but years and years of decisions that are not in the best interests of student-athletes. Her personal vendettas prevent her from making reasonable decisions. The Serra sanctions and the Riordan Australian transfer controversy are just the latest. She seems to be a rather self-absorbed person who feels the needs to show everyone how powerful she is.
This post was edited on 1/24 8:58 AM by dcpanda
This post was edited on 1/24 12:10 PM by dcpanda
This post was edited on 1/24 8:58 AM by dcpanda
This post was edited on 1/24 12:10 PM by dcpanda
Copy of 16 page letter CCS sent to Serra. CCS /Commish definitely pissed off at the Padres and WCAL with the backing off non WCAL schools.
CCS letter
CCS letter
The crazy cat lady Nancy is at it again I see.
From the letter:
"7. The WCAL representative on the Football Committee cast a vote in favor of the 2014 CCS
Football Playoff Bylaws, including consolation rounds in the Open Division. His two emails
in communication with the CCS Commissioner on the position of the WCAL coaches is
clearly stated. He asks for another day to find out how they wish to vote and then he
responds the next day stating "my league has voted in favor of this proposal." This leads to
a reasonable finding that the majority of the WCAL football coaches had been contacted and
had responded to Ed Ravenscroft in support of the Football Committee proposal including
consolation rounds in the Open Division."
Nice try negative Nancy. To vote against those bylaws would be a vote against the playoffs. This is just like Congress when you need to pass a budget bill to keep the Government from shutting down but you know in doing so that you are going to have to let the Senator from Alaska get his bridge to nowhere and what ever other pork was in the bill.
So the consolation rounds were Nancy's bridge to nowhere.
So just because the WCAL reps voted for the playoff bylaws does not mean that they were in favor of a consolation round.
Nancy claims that the consolation rounds were ratified by the board of managers of which the WCAL has 3 members. Wow, that makes 3 out of roughly 42. This is the main problem. The WCAL can get out voted at every turn by the public's.
Serra rightly makes the point that most changes made are usually to be put into place for the next season. The decision to go forward and play the consolation round was put into place during this season in October and the playoffs started in November. Nancy said that Serra had enough time to decide to enter or not enter the playoffs. But if Serra did enter the playoffs they were bound by the consolation round. Obviously Serra did not think everything through but neither did the CCS.
If you look in the bylaws does it say anything about what the penalty is for forfeiting a consolation game. No, it does not. Then if you look at the choice that Serra should have taken according to Nancy if Serra did not want to take part in a playoff system that had consolation rounds is that Serra should have chosen not to enter the playoffs all together. You cant make this stuff up. Is there even a precedent for a league champion or co-champion deciding not to enter the playoffs? And if that ever happened would Nancy have penalized the team saying by her logic "that you should not have entered league play if you never intended to enter the playoffs and therefore you are banned for x number of years.
This whole episode came from the fact that the CIF laughed at Nancy's consolation proposal and said a big "NO" to it. Then Nancy said "we will show them and we will have the meaningless consolation round anyways". Then Serra threw a wrench into her meaningless plan. This is ALL about Serra making Nancy look like a crazy cat lady in the eyes of the CIF. This is nothing more than a personal petty vendetta by Nancy to save face. The fact that this lady is the rep that the CCS has to depend on to make the case for our teams to make it to the regional play in game is scary.
Nancy is an incompetent hack and it is high time that she should be removed from having anything to do with the CCS.
This post was edited on 1/24 1:40 PM by WCAL75
From the letter:
"7. The WCAL representative on the Football Committee cast a vote in favor of the 2014 CCS
Football Playoff Bylaws, including consolation rounds in the Open Division. His two emails
in communication with the CCS Commissioner on the position of the WCAL coaches is
clearly stated. He asks for another day to find out how they wish to vote and then he
responds the next day stating "my league has voted in favor of this proposal." This leads to
a reasonable finding that the majority of the WCAL football coaches had been contacted and
had responded to Ed Ravenscroft in support of the Football Committee proposal including
consolation rounds in the Open Division."
Nice try negative Nancy. To vote against those bylaws would be a vote against the playoffs. This is just like Congress when you need to pass a budget bill to keep the Government from shutting down but you know in doing so that you are going to have to let the Senator from Alaska get his bridge to nowhere and what ever other pork was in the bill.
So the consolation rounds were Nancy's bridge to nowhere.
So just because the WCAL reps voted for the playoff bylaws does not mean that they were in favor of a consolation round.
Nancy claims that the consolation rounds were ratified by the board of managers of which the WCAL has 3 members. Wow, that makes 3 out of roughly 42. This is the main problem. The WCAL can get out voted at every turn by the public's.
Serra rightly makes the point that most changes made are usually to be put into place for the next season. The decision to go forward and play the consolation round was put into place during this season in October and the playoffs started in November. Nancy said that Serra had enough time to decide to enter or not enter the playoffs. But if Serra did enter the playoffs they were bound by the consolation round. Obviously Serra did not think everything through but neither did the CCS.
If you look in the bylaws does it say anything about what the penalty is for forfeiting a consolation game. No, it does not. Then if you look at the choice that Serra should have taken according to Nancy if Serra did not want to take part in a playoff system that had consolation rounds is that Serra should have chosen not to enter the playoffs all together. You cant make this stuff up. Is there even a precedent for a league champion or co-champion deciding not to enter the playoffs? And if that ever happened would Nancy have penalized the team saying by her logic "that you should not have entered league play if you never intended to enter the playoffs and therefore you are banned for x number of years.
This whole episode came from the fact that the CIF laughed at Nancy's consolation proposal and said a big "NO" to it. Then Nancy said "we will show them and we will have the meaningless consolation round anyways". Then Serra threw a wrench into her meaningless plan. This is ALL about Serra making Nancy look like a crazy cat lady in the eyes of the CIF. This is nothing more than a personal petty vendetta by Nancy to save face. The fact that this lady is the rep that the CCS has to depend on to make the case for our teams to make it to the regional play in game is scary.
Nancy is an incompetent hack and it is high time that she should be removed from having anything to do with the CCS.
This post was edited on 1/24 1:40 PM by WCAL75
Look what what she has created with this crazy forcing up league winners and top WCAL teams like Palma (D4) Valley Christian (D4), Sacred Heart Prep (D4). Not one team from the CCS made the Regional games. SHP got voted out over Grant due to their size of school for the most part. The main recipient of the CCS stupid rules is NCS D2 and D3 , SJS D1, D2 D3 and D4 and for sure Modesto Catholic in D4. All of the good teams from the CCS get eliminated by not winning section. In the NCS if they did the same thing as this ridiculous CCS Open, just to help Public Section win a Section title against Privates, the following would have happened this year. Clayton Valley Charter would have been moved up and they would have not played in the State D2 game as DLS would have eliminated them . Campolindo would have been moved up to Open and they would have been eliminated by DLS or another school like Pitt or Cal. They would not be the State D3 champion. I know for a fact that the CCS is the laughing stock of all other Sections. The SJS loves the CCS and so does the NCS. Let the fools kill each other no matter how big the school is.
So why the Consolation bracket? It was formed to make up for the absurd Open format and the elimination of very good D 2, D3 and D4 teams from the State Regional and State championships. Even SHP, which it Coach thinks this was a good idea did not make the Regional game. Lets see what happens next year to SHP. The thinking was if a team like SHP had lost in an early game in the playoffs and had a 11-1 record, if they could win a consolation bracket and come out 13-1 they could request to play in the D4 Regional. The CIF thought so much of this that they voted unanimously as no way for 2014 season and the only qualifiers would be Section Champions. The same will be true for many years to come. The CCS then said let's do a trial run and see if our crazy ideas could be adopted without a sanction from the CIF.
The losers here are the teams that were forced into this no win scenario by people who don't have kids playing and who risked the health of teen agers in favor of trying something that won't ever work. Basketball, Baseball , swimming, Tennis maybe even Soccer can have many games without potentially injuring kids as long as there is some time between games. Football due to violent nature of the game and the preparedness needed for every game mental and physical can never have a meaningless consolation bracket, No other Section in California did this, did the CCS ever ask why?
Coach Walsh did what none of the other coaches faced with this dilemma had the guts, brains or nerve to do. The kids come first is the code of ethics for all HS Coaches. This was upheld by Coach Walsh.
So why the Consolation bracket? It was formed to make up for the absurd Open format and the elimination of very good D 2, D3 and D4 teams from the State Regional and State championships. Even SHP, which it Coach thinks this was a good idea did not make the Regional game. Lets see what happens next year to SHP. The thinking was if a team like SHP had lost in an early game in the playoffs and had a 11-1 record, if they could win a consolation bracket and come out 13-1 they could request to play in the D4 Regional. The CIF thought so much of this that they voted unanimously as no way for 2014 season and the only qualifiers would be Section Champions. The same will be true for many years to come. The CCS then said let's do a trial run and see if our crazy ideas could be adopted without a sanction from the CIF.
The losers here are the teams that were forced into this no win scenario by people who don't have kids playing and who risked the health of teen agers in favor of trying something that won't ever work. Basketball, Baseball , swimming, Tennis maybe even Soccer can have many games without potentially injuring kids as long as there is some time between games. Football due to violent nature of the game and the preparedness needed for every game mental and physical can never have a meaningless consolation bracket, No other Section in California did this, did the CCS ever ask why?
Coach Walsh did what none of the other coaches faced with this dilemma had the guts, brains or nerve to do. The kids come first is the code of ethics for all HS Coaches. This was upheld by Coach Walsh.
how about this: instead of the 2 year probation of serra and financial restitution, i think having walsh suspended for some period of time, have serra pay any financial obligations, but let serra continue playing football including any ccs playoffs if they qualify.
2 year suspension is not fair to the kids.I believe there needs to be some type of punishment but the kids didn't make this decision not to play, the coach did.The Coach knew going into this that they could lose and once they did he used the excuse that the game didn't matter and it wasn't worth taking a chance on the kids getting hurt. I agree that the Coach and the Coach only should pay the price for his decision....just not FAIR to these football players that had nothing to do with his decision.
No coach goes into a game thinking they are going to lose- that's idiotic. The reality is the AD is where the buck stops in a deal like this. Changes need to be made or you will see the WCAL become their own section like Oakland and San Francisco. That league to the CCS is much like the power 5 conferences to the NCAA (who is caving to the conferences to stay relevant). The same thing will happen if the CCS doesn't make changes.
@NCSF...Let me re-phrase that. Your right. No Coach going into a game goes in thinking they are going to lose. But when you play football or any sport for that matter there has to be a loser. My point is, the Coach knew going into this that if he were to lose there would be a consolation round and if he wasn't prepared to fulfill his obligation if a loss should occur then why bother playing the 1st round of playoffs. Such a waste of time for all involved, and certainly not fair to other teams that could have played in there place that would have followed through, WIN OR LOSE.
I'm surprised to see the CCS commissioner, who makes 170+k a year, have that much trouble with grammar and punctuation.
Play- What Coach in their right mind would not enter a playoff due to consequences if they LOST. Coaches don't look at that. I've probably coached two dozen national tournaments in another sport and not once have I ever looked at anything but the Winner's bracket.
I'm not saying they weren't aware- I'm saying that's not in the equation and mindset. To give you an insight on the Coach we are talking about, the title of his Masters thesis was "Winning". Guys like that don't look at negative consequences. If there is anybody to blame, it goes to the Principal and AD. Coaches don't make the final decisions on things like this.
I'm not saying they weren't aware- I'm saying that's not in the equation and mindset. To give you an insight on the Coach we are talking about, the title of his Masters thesis was "Winning". Guys like that don't look at negative consequences. If there is anybody to blame, it goes to the Principal and AD. Coaches don't make the final decisions on things like this.
You wonder if the penalties levied are based on the fact that rules were broken or that money was lost. There are posts on here concerning money lost insinuating that this is the criteria to levy the judgement. This I hope is not the case. It's should always be kids first.
there will be an interesting Board of Managers meeting this weds in the morning. one action item is the Serra sanctions under staff reports. see following link:
http://www.cifccs.org/meetings/BOM/Agendas/01-28-15%20NLB.pdf
maybe Darren will be there to twitter.
This post was edited on 1/26 7:49 AM by ds1968
http://www.cifccs.org/meetings/BOM/Agendas/01-28-15%20NLB.pdf
maybe Darren will be there to twitter.
This post was edited on 1/26 7:49 AM by ds1968
I have to admit at first glance I though punishment was harsh and unfair but then I read the report. Pretty straight forward. The punishment is harsh and unfortunate, but warranted. Yes, the AD and Principal are responsible for representing the program including the kids and any decision should affect both the program and (unfortuantely) the kids. The AD, coach, principal all let emotion more than anything else dictate their ultimate decision and they got brought to task, dspite the written rule. Hence, the program (including the kids) are ultimatly affected and must suffer the consequences.
The great irony is the playoff system was set up for a school like Serra who is good enough to compete, but still be considered for coveted state playoffs even they lose in early round. The safety response doesnt hold salt.
I am sure it will eventually be reduced to one year.
Look the CCS and CIF are not smelling like roses here too. The "State" playoff system is not perfect and this brought to light a potential situation nobody hoped would materialize.
This post was edited on 1/26 9:54 AM by CityVibesII
The great irony is the playoff system was set up for a school like Serra who is good enough to compete, but still be considered for coveted state playoffs even they lose in early round. The safety response doesnt hold salt.
I am sure it will eventually be reduced to one year.
Look the CCS and CIF are not smelling like roses here too. The "State" playoff system is not perfect and this brought to light a potential situation nobody hoped would materialize.
This post was edited on 1/26 9:54 AM by CityVibesII
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