Cal High

[ThunderRam]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned DJ Williams, considering how accomplished and respected a HS player he was.

To be clear, simply becoming a standout college or pro player doesn't qualify someone as one of the best HS players. It's only about what that player accomplished in HS, while also considering such things as complimentary talent surrounding the player and the level of competition.

In short, I don't think you could ever have a clear cut answer.

While I like Najee Harris and believe he's a tremendous talent, he's done nothing to surpass the accomplishments of many greats to come before him. There have been guys that have broken National records, been named National Player of the Year, been the consensus #1 overall recruit, and/or never once lost a game.

 

[Indianpride45]

To be clear, simply becoming a standout college or pro player doesn't qualify someone as one of the best HS players. It's only about what that player accomplished in HS,

The quote as "best player state has ever seen" not best high school player ever. So that qualifies all players.

 

[ThunderRam]

The quote as "best player state has ever seen" not best high school player ever. So that qualifies all players.

You're correct. I inferred that he was speaking merely about HS ball, which I still believe to be the case. But, as it was written, you're right.

 

[observer22]

I'm pretty sure he was referring to his HS career and recruitment, not predicting he will be an NFL HOFer. I agree that best player the state has ever seen is way over the top, but the guy certainly has been recruited a highly as any other NorCal guys in recent memory. Bama isn't just looking at backs that have good stats.

Will be fun to follow his career. Hopefully, he will have better luck than the kid Mixon from Freedom has had at Oklahoma.

 

[Indianpride45]

Written or even inferred the statement is a stretch.

 

[Paloma]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned DJ Williams, considering how accomplished and respected a HS player he was.

To be clear, simply becoming a standout college or pro player doesn't qualify someone as one of the best HS players. It's only about what that player accomplished in HS, while also considering such things as complimentary talent surrounding the player and the level of competition.

In short, I don't think you could ever have a clear cut answer.

While I like Najee Harris and believe he's a tremendous talent, he's done nothing to surpass the accomplishments of many greats to come before him. There have been guys that have broken National records, been named National Player of the Year, been the consensus #1 overall recruit, and/or never once lost a game.

Najee has single handedly made a terrible program in to a top threat. You will see against DLS this year. The kid is completely one of a kind. I don't think any of us have witnessed a running back get hit by four or five guys at the line on a play, multiple times a game and still run for touchdowns, and in every game. Antioch has the worst staff in the BVAL and possibly the best player in state history. I base that comment on what I saw Pittsburg do against them. They were committing ten guys at a time it seemed and Najee still was a force and their staff never made Pitt change anything. It was great and weird at the same time.

 

[Indianpride45]

Najee has single handedly made a terrible program in to a top threat. You will see against DLS this year. The kid is completely one of a kind. I don't think any of us have witnessed a running back get hit by four or five guys at the line on a play, multiple times a game and still run for touchdowns, and in every game. Antioch has the worst staff in the BVAL and possibly the best player in state history. I base that comment on what I saw Pittsburg do against them. They were committing ten guys at a time it seemed and Najee still was a force and their staff never made Pitt change anything. It was great and weird at the same time.

The same Pitt defense that gave up 70 to DLS and lost to MV? Antioch also lost to Northgate two years ago with Harris running the rock. Look kid is a stud there is no doubt about that. California is a huge state and produces a lot of talent.

 

[Paloma]

The same Pitt defense that gave up 70 to DLS and lost to MV? Antioch also lost to Northgate two years ago with Harris running the rock. Look kid is a stud there is no doubt about that. California is a huge state and produces a lot of talent.

Yes. The same one that ran wild over Foothill and the same Foothill that battled DLS. And the Northgate game you mention is when he was a Freshman. You put him on any high school team in the country and he's the starting running back. That makes him one of the best ever in my book.

Go ahead Indian. Your next comment I'm sure will be this, "But Foothill lost so moral victories don't count. Who cares if Foothill held DLS to 14-0 at the half and lost 35-0. I don't care that Najee ran for 390 yards against Foothill and DLS ran for 349 yards as team against Foothill. They're both losers because DLS won the ball game."

 

[Indianpride45]

Yes. The same one that ran wild over Foothill and the same Foothill that battled DLS. And the Northgate game you mention is when he was a Freshman. You put him on any high school team in the country and he's the starting running back. That makes him one of the best ever in my book.

Explain how Pitts defense ran wild over foothill to me? Also Northgate year was So season, and with the all the questions about age maybe his Jr/Sr year? And just because he would start on any team in country doesn't make him best ever. Many players you could say that about. Look it's clear you hate the Antioch coaches just as much as you hate DLS. I get that, we all get that. But by calling him the best ever doesn't somehow make the Antioch coaches any worse. It just really points more to your clear biased against them here. CA has produced some stellar prep players over the years and yes Harris deserves mention when all said and done. But best ever? Not sure about that time will tell that.

 

[Paloma]

Indian I was talking about Najee running all over Foothill. And you are 100 percent wrong. The year they lost to Northgate was his Freshman year. The following year (2014) was his sophomore year and they blew Northgate out. This past season was his Junior season.

And I hate no one. Being a terrible staff doesn't equal hatred for them. It is a critique. I think you have terrible and uninformed takes, but that is my critique. I don't hate you though! ;-)

 

[1315]

Paloma- that's part of the issue with electronic communication, especially on NCP. Being critical (deserved especially) of certain behavior or character and King Keyboard knee-jerks back with "hater, whiner, jealous."
Sticks and stones bruthah. I bet if some got around a big table with some Guinness it'd be "Man, I would've never guessed you did that for a living" or "You remember so and so?" "That's YOUR son? Maaaannnn, respect" (fist bump)
But it'd have to be Hopyard, not Roccos.

 

[Bubba3000]

Paloma- that's part of the issue with electronic communication, especially on NCP. Being critical (deserved especially) of certain behavior or character and King Keyboard knee-jerks back with "hater, whiner, jealous."
Sticks and stones bruthah. I bet if some got around a big table with some Guinness it'd be "Man, I would've never guessed you did that for a living" or "You remember so and so?" "That's YOUR son? Maaaannnn, respect" (fist bump)
But it'd have to be Hopyard, not Roccos.

Is that Hopyard in Pleasanton or San Ramon? ; )

 

[Bubba3000]

I came to the conclusion that IP45 and I agree to disagree on most things DLS. On other topics I find myself agreeing with him quite often.

 

[Indianpride45]

I came to the conclusion that IP45 and I agree to disagree on most things DLS. On other topics I find myself agreeing with him quite often.

Here is the deal. I'm not a DLS fan by any stretch. I do love sport and the under dog stepping up. I'm not a NorCal product and genuinely root against DLS. Being raised out of he area I recognize how far behind NorCal football is behind other places, SoCal, Texas, Florida, etc.......I do think in the last decade they have made great strides. Coaching is usually what separates programs. It seems to be the common place to blame this and that on a simple lack of coaching. DLS has a very high standard for their athletes if programs aren't doing the same good luck closing the gap. For example corona Cenn. Started spring ball 2 months ago, who is doing that here? DLS is. Is Pitt? Foothill? CVHS? Freedom? Cal? And if some are great, are they getting the same buy in DLS is? Doubt it. That is the huge difference. DLS sets the standard and the athlete adjust to it, or they don't play. Other programs seem to look for reasons to skirt a standard and get athletes on the field. That's a recipe for failure at most things in life.

 

[Bubba3000]

Here is the deal. I'm not a DLS fan by any stretch. I do love sport and the under dog stepping up. I'm not a NorCal product and genuinely root against DLS. Being raised out of he area I recognize how far behind NorCal football is behind other places, SoCal, Texas, Florida, etc.......I do think in the last decade they have made great strides. Coaching is usually what separates programs. It seems to be the common place to blame this and that on a simple lack of coaching. DLS has a very high standard for their athletes if programs aren't doing the same good luck closing the gap. For example corona Cenn. Started spring ball 2 months ago, who is doing that here? DLS is. Is Pitt? Foothill? CVHS? Freedom? Cal? And if some are great, are they getting the same buy in DLS is? Doubt it. That is the huge difference. DLS sets the standard and the athlete adjust to it, or they don't play. Other programs seem to look for reasons to skirt a standard and get athletes on the field. That's a recipe for failure at most things in life.

I get what you're saying about coaching and players buying in. Most public high schools simply don't have enough stud players to compete with DLS even if that public has good coaching and player buy in. To me it's simple numbers game. Any coach at any level with the right sized ego will tell you no matter how well one coaches at the end of the day it's the horses on the field that win the games.

 

[Indianpride45]

I get what you're saying about coaching and players buying in. Most public high schools simply don't have enough stud players to compete with DLS even if that public has good coaching and player buy in. To me it's simple numbers game. Any coach at any level with the right sized ego will tell you no matter how well one coaches at the end of the day it's the horses on the field that win the games.

I guess I could get on board with that line of thinking if there wasn't a term called a upset. Or for that matter if there wasn't DLS period. See DLS faces teams all the time with bigger, faster, and better horses period. And DLS wins some of those SoCal teams they have run are littered with D1 talent yet still lose. Kind of makes that excuse invalid don't you think?

 

[Indianpride45]

Indian I was talking about Najee running all over Foothill. And you are 100 percent wrong. The year they lost to Northgate was his Freshman year. The following year (2014) was his sophomore year and they blew Northgate out. This past season was his Junior season.

And I hate no one. Being a terrible staff doesn't equal hatred for them. It is a critique. I think you have terrible and uninformed takes, but that is my critique. I don't hate you though! ;-)

Ok my bad on the Northgate dates time flies at my extended age. And you clearly loathe both DLS and Antioch staff.

 

[Bubba3000]

I guess I could get on board with that line of thinking if there wasn't a term called a upset. Or for that matter if there wasn't DLS period. See DLS faces teams all the time with bigger, faster, and better horses period. And DLS wins some of those SoCal teams they have run are littered with D1 talent yet still lose. Kind of makes that excuse invalid don't you think?

An upset happens on occasion, certainly more often than the 25 year long nor cal streak DLS is currently riding. I agree that DLS routinely beats more talented So Cal teams but certainly don't face bigger faster and better all the time. Truth be known they face bigger faster and better once or twice a season. The rest of the time they face far less talented nor cal teams. How else could a team go undefeated for 25 years??!!

 

[Indianpride45]

An upset happens on occasion, certainly more often than the 25 year long nor cal streak DLS is currently riding. I agree that DLS routinely beats more talented So Cal teams but certainly don't face bigger faster and better all the time. Truth be known they face bigger faster and better once or twice a season. The rest of the time they face far less talented nor cal teams. How else could a team go undefeated for 25 years??!!

Simple coaching. And the main difference between NorCal and SoCal is coaching. That may be hard to hear but its a reality.

 

[Bubba3000]

Simple coaching. And the main difference between NorCal and SoCal is coaching. That may be hard to hear but its a reality.

Disagree pure population dictates more talent down south.

 

[Indianpride45]

Disagree pure population dictates more talent down south.

Yes population plays a roll. But there is also more quality programs to choose form which dilutes from there being one power house over a two decade period. For Example if DLS competed down there do,you think they have a 25 year undefeated streak? Doubt it. Better coaching more talent etc. NorCal is gaining ground they were just late to the dance. Many programs were pop warnerish a decade ago. I do feel the clock is ticking on that undeafted NorCal streak. Once another program or two steps up it going to happen. And talent will balk at the 17k price tag and play for free, already seeing it happen a crossed town.

 

[Paloma]

DLS gets a completely different type of kid and I'm not talking about talent level. The ratio of middle and lower class families that have players at Pittsburg, Antioch, and Deer Valley far out weighs the that of DLS. Not to mention single parent households, guardian ran households and many more variables. It's apples and oranges. The same exact reason why the majority of the elite SoCal programs are privates or in well to do school districts. There are some very good coaching staffs in NorCal. That's why SoCal doesn't sweep the state championships every year.

 

[Indianpride45]

DLS gets a completely different type of kid and I'm not talking about talent level. The ratio of middle and lower class families that have players at Pittsburg, Antioch, and Deer Valley far out weighs the that of DLS. Not to mention single parent households, guardian ran households and many more variables. It's apples and oranges. The same exact reason why the majority of the elite SoCal programs are privates or in well to do school districts. There are some very good coaching staffs in NorCal. That's why SoCal doesn't sweep the state championships every year.

Cough cough they don't sweep the state games every year because their best play each other every year and they don't have a loser plays on mentality. So you end up,getting teams like Oceanside, instead of Bosco. And using the lower class families is a excuse all programs deal with that. Corona Cenn. Is public and not in affluent area, same with Poly, Narbonne,etc. and yes there are some coaching staffs in NorCal that are quality other than DLS just not as many.

 

[1315]

Cough cough they don't sweep the state games every year because their best play each other every year and they don't have a loser plays on mentality. So you end up,getting teams like Oceanside, instead of Bosco. And using the lower class families is a excuse all programs deal with that. Corona Cenn. Is public and not in affluent area, same with Poly, Narbonne,etc. and yes there are some coaching staffs in NorCal that are quality other than DLS just not as many.

http://www.maxpreps.com/user_upload...374b-e564-4aee-a01b-f5d363d642b9_original.jpg

Corona Centennial is an outlier. It is a blue collar community, and very diverse. They have an 18% Islander population; those families already know there are an abundance of opportunities if their son can get a college ride. Likewise, their AA community (at 1%) is much like Concord (0.7%), but you see a disproportionate number on the team. That's a +. My sons said about 15 kids on their roster were tough as nails, the other 35 were "soft" and half of those just wanted to put on the uniform (and spend more time distracted from FB due to affluence.) Take those stats, apply them to Centennial and of those 90 kids (and that's reg season, NOT playoff) on the roster picture and you easily have 30 who can get after it.

p.s. Doesn't seem to be a bad gig for coaches either....How many?

 

[Indianpride45]

Corona Centennial is an outlier. It is a blue collar community, and very diverse. They have an 18% Islander population; those families already know there are an abundance of opportunities if their son can get a college ride. Likewise, their AA community (at 1%) is much like Concord (0.7%), but you see a disproportionate number on the team. That's a +. My sons said about 15 kids on their roster were tough as nails, the other 35 were "soft" and half of those just wanted to put on the uniform (and spend more time distracted from FB due to affluence.) Take those stats, apply them to Centennial and of those 90 kids (and that's reg season, NOT playoff) on the roster picture and you easily have 30 who can get after it.

p.s. Doesn't seem to be a bad gig for coaches either....How many?

Race card and number of coaches now? The excuse train just rolls on and on..........and folks wonder why it's 25 years and counting.

 

[TMJA]

I've heard a bunch of rumbling at 7 on 7's about players leaving Cal High
Is there any truth? I heard Billeci is rubbing players & parents the wrong way?
They have already lost a few D1 players that went to Foothill in past years and now I am hearing more from last years team are looking to transfer? I personally am not a big fan of players transferring and trying to work the system but parents all think there kids are scholarship material when the truth of the matter is, very few of them are. Wasn't to impressed with anyone from last years team with the exception Locklear & Friedel, not sure if they have some young talent coming back or moving up but might be tough times a head for the Griz.

Belleci is a good coach. He is trying to build it the right way at Cal Hi. Unfortunately you get a bunch of 7x7 coaches/street agent the try to promise the grass is greener on the other side. Those agent like coaches are only in it for themselves & try to get influence wherever there is room to do so to make themselves relevant. Unfortunate nonsense for the kids and done parents to have to deal with these wolves. Character coaches like David Shaw and others know these guys are bad for the kids and choose to deal with the high school coaches, kids, and parents. Sometimes due to the level of talent, some coaches will deal with it but don't like to. A player has to care about his team, his coach and understand that he is a part of a community. He will have to do the same at the next level. That has to matter to college recruiters. High school coaches have to educate their players and parents.

 

[1315]

Race card and number of coaches now? The excuse train just rolls on and on..........and folks wonder why it's 25 years and counting.

I'm not even going to respond Johnnie Cochran.
You know not me nor my background.

But you can find it on NCP.

 

[Indianpride45]

New I'm not even going to respond Johnnie Cochran.
You know not me nor my background.

But you can find it on NCP.

Lol but you did respond. You just didn't make excuses this time. I don't know what you expected me to say when you cherry picked one of three schools given and gave a racial breakdown. I mean wtf does that have to do with anything? Why didn't you use Narbonne for your case or LB? You went with CC because you read it was a large sub so you thought it must be nice.

 

[ThunderRam]

I don't think any of us have witnessed a running back get hit by four or five guys at the line on a play, multiple times a game and still run for touchdowns, and in every game. .

You obviously never saw Onterrio Smith play. Najee has nothing on him in HS. Both were/are phenomenal runners.

I never saw Toby Gerhardt in HS, but I've heard stories. I can't imagine Najee has anything on him either.

Also, Kevin Willhite from Cordova was the #1 overall recruit in the Nation back in 1982. Can't really top that.

Those are just a few RB's that could be mentioned.

 

[Indianpride45]

In terms of Toby G. Najee needs like 4600 more yard to catch him from a statistical stand point. You factor in he missed like 7 games over his HS career and many games he was out by halftime, on top of the fact he played in SoCal against much better competition it's annoying brainier.

 

[Paloma]

You obviously never saw Onterrio Smith play. Najee has nothing on him in HS. Both were/are phenomenal runners.

I never saw Toby Gerhardt in HS, but I've heard stories. I can't imagine Najee has anything on him either.

Also, Kevin Willhite from Cordova was the #1 overall recruit in the Nation back in 1982. Can't really top that.

Those are just a few RB's that could be mentioned.

That's awesome! Great name references! See Indian, now there's an opinion with substance. ;-)

By the way Indian, that is a wink and a smile at the end of my sentence. Najee has been out at half time in at least as many games as Toby G. was, and he missed two games his sophomore season. Which I'm sure can be said for the majority of the great backs throughout time. We'll see against DLS this year. I think DLS is going to blast them out of the water, but Najee will be more than a handful and will have a couple big time runs. It will be great for some of you guys that watched high school ball in the late 70's and early 80's like ThunderRam to be able to compare. And it will be great for you to watch too Indian since you probably base your information on the highlights from CalHis Sports Bay Area with Robert Braunstein.

One point for you as usual ThunderRam. Zero points for your skimmed through stats and piggy backing Indian.

 

[mshNASTY]

You obviously never saw Onterrio Smith play. Najee has nothing on him in HS. Both were/are phenomenal runners.

I never saw Toby Gerhardt in HS, but I've heard stories. I can't imagine Najee has anything on him either.

Also, Kevin Willhite from Cordova was the #1 overall recruit in the Nation back in 1982. Can't really top that.

Those are just a few RB's that could be mentioned.

I've seen both Onterrio Smith and Najee Harris play live in high school. To say Najee has nothing on Onterrio is a pretty bold and optionated statement. Harris all the way IMO

 

[ThunderRam]

I've seen both Onterrio Smith and Najee Harris play live in high school. To say Najee has nothing on Onterrio is a pretty bold and optionated statement. Harris all the way IMO

It's in no way bold. The fact that you say that makes me believe you didn't see him play, as you claim. If you did, it couldn't have been very much at all.

Smith was one of the best HS RB's to ever come out of CA. There's nothing that Najee has done or is doing that Onterrio didn't do as well. That's the point and the reason for my statement.

Najee might surpass some of Onterrio's career #'s this season, but Smith also played on teams in 1996 and 1997 that threw the ball an awful lot (Chad Elliot 47 TD passes in 1996, Donte Stallworth 23 TD receptions in 1997). The only season where it was all about Onterrio was 1998 when he rushed for 3,125 yards and 48 TD's in 12 games -- feats Najee has yet to match. Conversely, Najee has played for teams that rarely throw the ball and allows him to carry it 271 and 243 times respectively the past 2 seasons.

There's no doubt, IMO, that Najee is on a similar level with Onterrio. All I'm suggesting is that Najee hasn't surpassed Onterrio in any way. I'm not really sure how that's arguable at this point. Again, there's nothing Najee has done that Onterrio didn't do in HS.

We'll see how Najee's Senior year turns out. He certainly has a chance to make his mark, especially playing against DLS. Onterrio's toughest game in 1998 was against that great Lance Briggs led Elk Grove team that many felt could have given DLS a tough time. He still managed 108 yards against that defense on a mud-soaked field.

FWIW, that's yet another thing that makes these comparisons difficult and realistically unfair. The kids today largely play on all-weather surfaces conducive to good footing whereas a lot of games 15+ years ago were played in sloppy, muddy conditions. It makes a big difference.

All in all, everything is subjective. I think we agree on that. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that Onterrio is clearly better than Najee. I think it's awfully close. I can really see arguments either way. I just believe it's laughable to claim that either is clearly better than the other or to anoint Najee as best player ever. It's just not quantifiable and, realistically, is short-sighted.

 

[mshNASTY]

It's in no way bold. The fact that you say that makes me believe you didn't see him play, as you claim. If you did, it couldn't have been very much at all.

Smith was one of the best HS RB's to ever come out of CA. There's nothing that Najee has done or is doing that Onterrio didn't do as well. That's the point and the reason for my statement.

Najee might surpass some of Onterrio's career #'s this season, but Smith also played on teams in 1996 and 1997 that threw the ball an awful lot (Chad Elliot 47 TD passes in 1996, Donte Stallworth 23 TD receptions in 1997). The only season where it was all about Onterrio was 1998 when he rushed for 3,125 yards and 48 TD's in 12 games -- feats Najee has yet to match. Conversely, Najee has played for teams that rarely throw the ball and allows him to carry it 271 and 243 times respectively the past 2 seasons.

There's no doubt, IMO, that Najee is on a similar level with Onterrio. All I'm suggesting is that Najee hasn't surpassed Onterrio in any way. I'm not really sure how that's arguable at this point. Again, there's nothing Najee has done that Onterrio didn't do in HS.

We'll see how Najee's Senior year turns out. He certainly has a chance to make his mark, especially playing against DLS. Onterrio's toughest game in 1998 was against that great Lance Briggs led Elk Grove team that many felt could have given DLS a tough time. He still managed 108 yards against that defense on a mud-soaked field.

FWIW, that's yet another thing that makes these comparisons difficult and realistically unfair. The kids today largely play on all-weather surfaces conducive to good footing whereas a lot of games 15+ years ago were played in sloppy, muddy conditions. It makes a big difference.

All in all, everything is subjective. I think we agree on that. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that Onterrio is clearly better than Najee. I think it's awfully close. I can really see arguments either way. I just believe it's laughable to claim that either is clearly better than the other or to anoint Najee as best player ever. It's just not quantifiable and, realistically, is short-sighted.

It's typical for someone who is bias and opinionated to try and discredit what somebody else has said by saying, "you didn't see him play" or you weren't there. Really? How would you know? That's another bold statement that you can't back up and frankly it sounds like you are calling me liar just because I don't agree with you. By saying that "Najee has nothing on him (Smith) in HS" is suggesting that you think "Onterrio is clearly better than Najee," that is a contradiction to what you are saying above. As somebody who has seen both play in HS, in matter of fact against the same school in Amador Valley, I think my opinion isn't bias or short-sided. Where did I say or anoint Najee as the greatest ever? I highly respected and enjoyed watching the Wizinator run the ball but even his own high school doesn't even recognize him as the absolute best RB in the schools history with Robert Dawson ('92) and Smith voted as a TIE (see link below). Smith was great, why are you making excuses for him by saying they threw the ball a lot and played on mud soaked fields, etc

http://greatestgrantpacers.blogspot.com/2008/10/greatest-grant-pacers-of-all-time.html

 

[slick58]

It's in no way bold. The fact that you say that makes me believe you didn't see him play, as you claim. If you did, it couldn't have been very much at all.

Smith was one of the best HS RB's to ever come out of CA. There's nothing that Najee has done or is doing that Onterrio didn't do as well. That's the point and the reason for my statement.

Najee might surpass some of Onterrio's career #'s this season, but Smith also played on teams in 1996 and 1997 that threw the ball an awful lot (Chad Elliot 47 TD passes in 1996, Donte Stallworth 23 TD receptions in 1997). The only season where it was all about Onterrio was 1998 when he rushed for 3,125 yards and 48 TD's in 12 games -- feats Najee has yet to match. Conversely, Najee has played for teams that rarely throw the ball and allows him to carry it 271 and 243 times respectively the past 2 seasons.

There's no doubt, IMO, that Najee is on a similar level with Onterrio. All I'm suggesting is that Najee hasn't surpassed Onterrio in any way. I'm not really sure how that's arguable at this point. Again, there's nothing Najee has done that Onterrio didn't do in HS.

We'll see how Najee's Senior year turns out. He certainly has a chance to make his mark, especially playing against DLS. Onterrio's toughest game in 1998 was against that great Lance Briggs led Elk Grove team that many felt could have given DLS a tough time. He still managed 108 yards against that defense on a mud-soaked field.

FWIW, that's yet another thing that makes these comparisons difficult and realistically unfair. The kids today largely play on all-weather surfaces conducive to good footing whereas a lot of games 15+ years ago were played in sloppy, muddy conditions. It makes a big difference.

All in all, everything is subjective. I think we agree on that. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that Onterrio is clearly better than Najee. I think it's awfully close. I can really see arguments either way. I just believe it's laughable to claim that either is clearly better than the other or to anoint Najee as best player ever. It's just not quantifiable and, realistically, is short-sighted.

Ram, your argument of a player playing alongside another elite player or players can work the other way. Meaning if you were to stack the box to stop Onterrio they could go up top to Stallworth. Antioch had some additional weapons but nothing like your talking about. You didn't even touch on line play either. I was impressed by Antiochs line, undersized, but they came to fight. Onterrio could have been running behind road graders. Sounds like Smith played on an all star team.

I saw Smith first in college and didn't see him play in high school so I'll trust your opinion. To me what makes Najee unique is his combination of size, strength, and speed. Lot's of burners in the 5'10 range. Once you get up to 6'2 and above there are less and less guys with ability to stop and and explosively start and most big guys lack lateral movement. Harris plays like a guys Smiths size sporting NFL WR frame in high school. That's truly unique.

 

[Indianpride45]

One point for you as usual ThunderRam. Zero points for your skimmed through stats and piggy backing Indian.

Points? What are you 14 or something? Again you made a ignorant statement about Najee being the best player CA has ever produced. All I did was call you on that statement, and it seems others think it's off based as well.

 

[Paloma]

Points? What are you 14 or something? Again you made a ignorant statement about Najee being the best player CA has ever produced. All I did was call you on that statement, and it seems others think it's off based as well.

I said ONE of the best ever. Scroll up. If you're talking about what I said a month ago, the post after by Thunder Ram is correct. It was over the top hyperbole. If it makes you feel better I'll take the point away from ThunderRam, even though I'm sure he understood where I was coming from. Reading tip; before reading these posts, put a smile on your face. You'll be amazed how differently you interpret things you read.

 

[ThunderRam]

It's typical for someone who is bias and opinionated to try and discredit what somebody else has said by saying, "you didn't see him play" or you weren't there. Really? How would you know? That's another bold statement that you can't back up and frankly it sounds like you are calling me liar just because I don't agree with you.

Actually, the original comment was directed at Paloma. But then you followed up and I said that your comments "make me believe" that you didn't see him play much, if at all. I didn't make an absolute statement. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. You're right that I don't know. But assuming that you saw him more than a few times and are also fully aware of the historic numbers he put up, how you can you possibly believe that it's bold to claim that Najee has nothing on him? By every measure you could look at, there's nothing to suggest that Najee is a better HS player. If Harris goes out and rushes for 3,500 yards and 50 TD's this season, then perhaps there's a valid argument to be made. Right now, there's not.

By saying that "Najee has nothing on him (Smith) in HS" is suggesting that you think "Onterrio is clearly better than Najee," that is a contradiction to what you are saying above.

No, that's not at all what it means. How on earth can you possibly interpret that sentence in that way? You are connecting dots that aren't there and making grand assumptions. Nowhere did I say that Onterrio was clearly better. Saying that Najee has nothing on him simply means that he's not clearly better, as was asserted by someone else. It doesn't in turn mean the opposite. I happen to believe that Najee is near the same level of player, but with another season to make an even greater impression.

As somebody who has seen both play in HS, in matter of fact against the same school in Amador Valley, I think my opinion isn't bias or short-sided.

So, clear the air. Please. You saw Onterrio one time against Amador Valley? That's how the above reads. Or was it a couple times over his 3 year Varsity career? Be honest and we'll see where we're really at.

I highly respected and enjoyed watching the Wizinator run the ball but even his own high school doesn't even recognize him as the absolute best RB in the schools history with Robert Dawson ('92) and Smith voted as a TIE (see link below).

You're not biased, according to you, yet can't resist taking a name calling pot shot at Smith's NFL career, which has nothing to do with discussion. That certainly doesn't help you appear unbiased.

You then follow up that tactic by digging up and pointing to a single blog expressing one person's point-of-view and try to position it as the de facto opinion of an entire high school and/or it's alumni. Are you seriously trying to make that connection? I certainly hope not.

You're really reaching hard for someone that, again, isn't biased. Allegedly. For the record, I know of many Grant Union alumni that have an altogether different opinion than the blog you pointed to --- are they any more or less credible?

It's cool that you have an opinion. What's not entirely clear is whether that opinion is totally unbiased or rooted in anything beyond a couple snapshot games you saw Onterrio play. I'm going to go out on another limb and guess that you have seen Najee play a hell of a lot more than Onterrio, which wouldn't exactly give you the most balanced opinion.

 

[ThunderRam]

Ram, your argument of a player playing alongside another elite player or players can work the other way. Meaning if you were to stack the box to stop Onterrio they could go up top to Stallworth..

I get that. It's a fair point. But, typically, when you are part of a team that has a ton of talent, the wealth is spread around so-to-speak. And you don't get near the same amount of touches in order to put up gaudy stats. That's was where I was going with it. Grant threw the ball a lot more in 1996 and 1997 than they did in 1998 (when Smith set his single season records). In 96, Elliot threw for over 3100 yards and 47 TD's, which was out of this world back then. In 97, Stallworth had 23 TD receptions. The ball just wasn't in Onterrio's hands as much. You can't produce if you don't have the ball. Conversely, Najee Harris has touched the ball at a much higher rate than Onterrio did his SOPH and JR seasons. But, to your point, his yards per touch were higher because of the talent around him. But he still didn't put up the ridiculous numbers until he was carrying it his Senior year like Najee has been the past 2 years.

1998: 3,125 yds, 48 rush TD's, 2 rec TD's, 3 ret TD's, 2 TD passes
1997: 1,960 yds, 25 rush TD's, 3 rec TD's, 1 ret TD's
1996: 1,086 yds, 10 rush TD's, 7 rec TD's

 

[ThunderRam]

To me what makes Najee unique is his combination of size, strength, and speed. Lot's of burners in the 5'10 range. Once you get up to 6'2 and above there are less and less guys with ability to stop and and explosively start and most big guys lack lateral movement. Harris plays like a guys Smiths size sporting NFL WR frame in high school. That's truly unique.

I totally agree. Najee's skill set for his size is amazing. He's Eddie George meets Chris Johnson. He might even grow a bit more. Bama got a real good one.

Can't wait to see how he does against DLS's defense.