Cal High

[ThunderRam]

Smith was great, why are you making excuses for him by saying they threw the ball a lot and played on mud soaked fields, etcl

Sorry, I neglected to reply to this and it's a good point of conversation.

I already covered the first part regarding passing in my reply to Slick.

With regard to the mud soaked fields, it's far from an excuse and it applies to ALL players that played prior to the popularity of field turf at the HS level, not specifically Smith.

There's a huge advantage playing on the fields they have today versus the grass/dirt fields of yesteryear, specifically during inclement weather. I don't think I should have to explain why. Scoring, yardage, stats, etc are easier to come by with better field conditions. It's a no brainer.

 

[Indianpride45]

Maybe Antioch is trying to duplicate last year by having way more talent than Foothill only to be completely out coached, even with the best player the state has ever seen.

That quote is pretty cut and dry. Your not saying best RB ever your claiming best player ever. The very fact posters are even keeping it to RB'S at this point is doing you a favor. As I pointed out CA has a long history of great football talent. And as for the "points" I don't care. I didn't realize this was a game and we were keeping score. If so when does it end and how do we win? What do we win? Are my points like tickets I can cash in and get a stuffed animal or something?

 

[Paloma]

That quote is pretty cut and dry. Your not saying best RB ever your claiming best player ever. The very fact posters are even keeping it to RB'S at this point is doing you a favor. As I pointed out CA has a long history of great football talent. And as for the "points" I don't care. I didn't realize this was a game and we were keeping score. If so when does it end and how do we win? What do we win? Are my points like tickets I can cash in and get a stuffed animal or something?

That's more like it. Join in on the fun. Because this topic is getting boring.

 

[mshNASTY]

Actually, the original comment was directed at Paloma. But then you followed up and I said that your comments "make me believe" that you didn't see him play much, if at all. I didn't make an absolute statement. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. You're right that I don't know. But assuming that you saw him more than a few times and are also fully aware of the historic numbers he put up, how you can you possibly believe that it's bold to claim that Najee has nothing on him? By every measure you could look at, there's nothing to suggest that Najee is a better HS player. If Harris goes out and rushes for 3,500 yards and 50 TD's this season, then perhaps there's a valid argument to be made. Right now, there's not.



No, that's not at all what it means. How on earth can you possibly interpret that sentence in that way? You are connecting dots that aren't there and making grand assumptions. Nowhere did I say that Onterrio was clearly better. Saying that Najee has nothing on him simply means that he's not clearly better, as was asserted by someone else. It doesn't in turn mean the opposite. I happen to believe that Najee is near the same level of player, but with another season to make an even greater impression.



So, clear the air. Please. You saw Onterrio one time against Amador Valley? That's how the above reads. Or was it a couple times over his 3 year Varsity career? Be honest and we'll see where we're really at.



You're not biased, according to you, yet can't resist taking a name calling pot shot at Smith's NFL career, which has nothing to do with discussion. That certainly doesn't help you appear unbiased.

You then follow up that tactic by digging up and pointing to a single blog expressing one person's point-of-view and try to position it as the de facto opinion of an entire high school and/or it's alumni. Are you seriously trying to make that connection? I certainly hope not.

You're really reaching hard for someone that, again, isn't biased. Allegedly. For the record, I know of many Grant Union alumni that have an altogether different opinion than the blog you pointed to --- are they any more or less credible?

It's cool that you have an opinion. What's not entirely clear is whether that opinion is totally unbiased or rooted in anything beyond a couple snapshot games you saw Onterrio play. I'm going to go out on another limb and guess that you have seen Najee play a hell of a lot more than Onterrio, which wouldn't exactly give you the most balanced opinion.

Your breakdown of my comments are interesting, I interpret that entire thing as your guy who's butt hurt because someone doesn't agree that his favorite valley player is the greatest ever only great. Your still questioning the fact I saw both play, have you seen both? What makes your opinion on this subject so high and mighty and that you throw shade on anybody who has a difference of opinion? If the original comment was directed to Paloma that's great, maybe someone should tell you have a public forum works. The original thread was about Cal High so excuse me for not staying in my lane. My two sentence response to what you said to Paloma didn't make you believe? I'm sorry next time I'll produce a ticket stub from 1997 and a home movie that shows I was there to validate your concerns of weather I was there or not which you already know the answer to. How else I am supposed to interpret a sentence that says, "Najee has nothing on him in HS?" Your like the old G61 on your rant here figuring that if you call someone bias or a homer enough that you will cover the fact your are exactly what you are accusing the other person of. For the record Onterrio Smith was one of my favorite players back of the day and taking a "pot shot" at him is what it is because if you ask any football fan who the Wizinator is they'll know exactly who your talking about. My one time seeing Onterrio in HS is still seeing him play along with college and in the pros. I've seen Najee play in one game as well. Don't ell me to "be honest," that's a joke and so is your pouting on here. I'm not reaching hard for facts when I found the blog on Grant HS, I was looking for the name of the other player that was just as good as Smith and Stallworth and never made it on that '97 team. Whether or not you like the blog it's still blog from a Grant alumni which probably means more than your opinion.

 

[observer22]

It's very hard to compare HS running backs that are in different systems and circumstances, especially when they played 20 years apart. Both are/were incredible at the HS level, and among the upper echelon of NorCal players we have seen and certainly worthy of being in the discussion of who might be the best NorCal player ever, but that doesn't mean someone else (mentioned above or not) might even have been better than both of them. Everyone has different perspectives and even criteria of what makes someone great, and more than one person can be right. No one really knows or will ever know as it is way too subjective. I hope Najee continues to work hard and reaches his potential and goes on to have a nice college and pro career.

 

[ThunderRam]

Your breakdown of my comments are interesting, I interpret that entire thing as your guy who's butt hurt because someone doesn't agree that his favorite valley player is the greatest ever only great. .

You've done a lot of incorrect interpreting. I don't expect that to stop now.

I've participated on this site for many years and have had many spirited debates with many different people. I have no issue with a differing opinion as long as the person has insight or a viable frame of reference into the topic. In this case, you don't -- which was obvious from the get go and why I questioned you as I did.

What makes your opinion on this subject so high and mighty and that you throw shade on anybody who has a difference of opinion?

While it unnecessarily had to go in a big circle, you finally answered the question and we got to the crux of the point. Onterrio Smith played in nearly 40 Varsity games during his HS career and you saw a grand total of one of them. ONE. Furthermore, you readily admit to only seeing Najee Harris play once too yet you somehow believe that puts in a position to have an educated and credible opinion on both of them? You're a piece of work.

While my "opinion" is still just an opinion, it certainly is much more educated and rooted in first hand observation -- which was precisely the point I made from the outset. I find it quite unlikely that anyone that saw Smith play a lot would contest the comment I made. However, you did and now we know the reasons why. Thanks for that.

How else I am supposed to interpret a sentence that says, "Najee has nothing on him in HS?"

Not the way you chose to interpret it. That's already been addressed and covered so no need to do it again. Go back and re-read.

Your still questioning the fact I saw both play, have you seen both?

I didn't feel this needed to be addressed earlier since it should have been apparent, but, since you asked -- yes, I have seen both play. Numerous times. I coached in the 90's and 2000's and not only attended a myriad of games all over NorCal, I had to scout and study film. I saw Onterrio from his frosh days on up. At least 6-7 games per season. I've seen Najee in person or via stream/HUDL at least a dozen or more times. With today's technology, most avid followers have seen Najee play quite a bit, even if unable to attend the games. There are a lot of resources out there.

With regard to all needless banter and venting you decided to include -- that I won't bother quoting -- you're clearly upset and defensive that you got called out and exposed for jumping into a conversation with little to nothing to offer all while pretending that wasn't the case.

My two sentence response to what you said to Paloma didn't make you believe? I'm sorry next time I'll produce a ticket stub from 1997 and a home movie that shows I was there to validate your concerns of weather I was there or not which you already know the answer to.

To repeat myself again, your uninformed response caused the skepticism. And, again, my suspicion was spot on. You simply don't have enough insight or first hand observation to know what you're talking about. Between the two players, around 67 games have been played to this point in time and you saw one game each.

Rather than spin wheels over the fact that you saw them play once, how about providing a reasonable explanation why you believe your extremely limited view gives you enough insight to form a credible opinion one way or the other? Once you come up with that answer, how about following up with why anybody here should take you seriously from this point on?

I know you can't possibly come up with a good answer because there simply isn't one. I'll just bow out from this point on and allow you the last words, which I'm certain will be more of the same type of posturing.

 

[ThunderRam]

It's very hard to compare HS running backs that are in different systems and circumstances, especially when they played 20 years apart. .

It's even harder when you haven't seen said players play more than one time each. But, hey, nowadays that makes you quite knowledgeable!

BTW, I'm thinking about becoming a book critic. I'll just read one random chapter which will give me the proper insight to tell you how good of a book it was and how it compares to others. Sounds like an excellent business model to me!

 

[mshNASTY]

You've done a lot of incorrect interpreting. I don't expect that to stop now.

I've participated on this site for many years and have had many spirited debates with many different people. I have no issue with a differing opinion as long as the person has insight or a viable frame of reference into the topic. In this case, you don't -- which was obvious from the get go and why I questioned you as I did.



While it unnecessarily had to go in a big circle, you finally answered the question and we got to the crux of the point. Onterrio Smith played in nearly 40 Varsity games during his HS career and you saw a grand total of one of them. ONE. Furthermore, you readily admit to only seeing Najee Harris play once too yet you somehow believe that puts in a position to have an educated and credible opinion on both of them? You're a piece of work.

While my "opinion" is still just an opinion, it certainly is much more educated and rooted in first hand observation -- which was precisely the point I made from the outset. I find it quite unlikely that anyone that saw Smith play a lot would contest the comment I made. However, you did and now we know the reasons why. Thanks for that.




Not the way you chose to interpret it. That's already been addressed and covered so no need to do it again. Go back and re-read.



I didn't feel this needed to be addressed earlier since it should have been apparent, but, since you asked -- yes, I have seen both play. Numerous times. I coached in the 90's and 2000's and not only attended a myriad of games all over NorCal, I had to scout and study film. I saw Onterrio from his frosh days on up. At least 6-7 games per season. I've seen Najee in person or via stream/HUDL at least a dozen or more times. With today's technology, most avid followers have seen Najee play quite a bit, even if unable to attend the games. There are a lot of resources out there.

With regard to all needless banter and venting you decided to include -- that I won't bother quoting -- you're clearly upset and defensive that you got called out and exposed for jumping into a conversation with little to nothing to offer all while pretending that wasn't the case.




To repeat myself again, your uninformed response caused the skepticism. And, again, my suspicion was spot on. You simply don't have enough insight or first hand observation to know what you're talking about. Between the two players, around 67 games have been played to this point in time and you saw one game each.

Rather than spin wheels over the fact that you saw them play once, how about providing a reasonable explanation why you believe your extremely limited view gives you enough insight to form a credible opinion one way or the other? Once you come up with that answer, how about following up with why anybody here should take you seriously from this point on?

I know you can't possibly come up with a good answer because there simply isn't one. I'll just bow out from this point on and allow you the last words, which I'm certain will be more of the same type of posturing.

Your writing is very eloquent but lacks any substance. It really is a special talent to read a near 1,000 essay while highlighting your points and still dodging the subject. You say you have been on here a long time and have been in many spirited debates and respect others opinions. Then why call me liar with no knowledge of what your saying just assumptions. I wonder how many people have seen Smith and Harris both play at least once in person, not many, therefore my opinion is as viable as your going to get on this board or any other. Everybody stop the presses, ThunderRam has watched film on these guys and considers it to be the same thing as being there. You are kidding me right? I question that you have seen Najee play live, you only admit to live streaming and watching HUDL. You lost all credibility on the subject here. If you saw Onterrio play 6-7 times every season you must have been coaching pop warner the next morning if you had the time on a Friday night. What are you so upset about? You called me a liar for saying you had a bold opinion, really sportsman like coach. You are a walking contradiction of yourself... Go back and read your own writing. You act like I said your boy was awful, hardly, exactly the opposite.

 

[mshNASTY]

It's even harder when you haven't seen said players play more than one time each. But, hey, nowadays that makes you quite knowledgeable!

BTW, I'm thinking about becoming a book critic. I'll just read one random chapter which will give me the proper insight to tell you how good of a book it was and how it compares to others. Sounds like an excellent business model to me!

You could always write a book called "HUDL, film so good you can pretend you were actually at the game" forwarded by Mel Kiper. Or "Muddy Gridiron, how RB's had it so hard in the '90's"

 

[Indianpride45]

ThunderRam has watched film on these guys and considers it to be the same thing as being there.

Ah, can you explain what the film would magically miss that being there live doesn't? I mean coaches film for a reason and thats because it documents everything. Film will in fact show greatness better than live action because viewer can stop, pause, rewind, film. Where with live action either you saw it or its gone forever. (Until of course you check the film)

 

[mshNASTY]

Ah, can you explain what the film would magically miss that being there live doesn't? I mean coaches film for a reason and thats because it documents everything. Film will in fact show greatness better than live action because viewer can stop, pause, rewind, film. Where with live action either you saw it or its gone forever. (Until of course you check the film)

Film is a great tool for coaches no doubt, I watch a lot as well. Consider the discussion though. The guy says I never saw these guys play live, which I have. Then criticizes the fact I only saw them play once each in person while he pats himself on the back for watching film 20 years ago. I've probably watched more Antioch film than most but it doesn't make me an expert on all things Najee. I doubt he's breaking down tape like a scout of the two players and stopping, rewinding the play 20 times over to watch every nuance on every snap. The point of the discussion is I've seen both and never professed that his opinion was wrong but only bold which set off our disgruntled friend into a frenzy. Pisses me off when some keyboard cowboy calls me liar with no proof just a difference of opinion, than goes off on some tangent about how qualified he is to make the assessment between the two players because he is anywhere and everywhere apparently on Friday nights over the past twenty years.

 

[EastBayDad]

I think someone above brought up 2 good points... Najee had some good players on his team but not amazing D1 guys. Even Joe Mixon a few years ago played with 2 other D1 players (Qb and WR a year older than him)

Antioch has had a pretty small OL. He doesnt have the luxury of any D1 guys clearing the way for him.
All in all you would have to say that he has sparked one of the biggest turn arounds in a program in Northern CA in the last decade

it is impossible to compare other players like this
you cant say Najee is the best ever from the state
you cant say he isnt even close

in reality there have been a few really special guys to make a name for themselves and tear it up for a few seasons. Najee is the latest one.
Lets just enjoy the one last year we get to watch him, and then we can all watch him on TV after that

 

[Bubba3000]

Captain Obvious says Najee is a very special player. What cracks me up is the load of crap Antioch coaches are selling kids about transferring there to get recruited.