Carondelet beat Monte Vista 61-19 on Tuesday. After playing San Ramon Valley, Carondelet will travel to St. Mary's-Stockton on Saturday.
Carondelet beats Monte Vista
- Thread starter Streak One
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They have good pieces, but have yet to put together what I consider a good team. Part of it is chemistry and that just takes time as they have 3 new starters. Another part is the development of a few players who could and should be doing more based on position, potential, and ability. Contributing on both sides of the ball not just used as one side specialist. Improving those areas, unselfish play, and better ball movement, with less forced shots, would make them a top team contender. Will they address those areas or stay the same, is the million dollar question?
They will have it once again pretty much their way in league games. I think California and now perhaps Dougherty Valley may be their biggest challenges. Not that they are to overlook anyone because their just not that good to get too full of themselves. But the league is pretty much Carondelet's to win or lose for themselves. Now Carondelet's challenge will be separating league games from tournament, elite play, and post season. And knowing they must adjust their play according to who they are playing. Because just about anything will work in league play because they have a little more depth,size, talent, and experience, than those in league. But many of the things that work in league will all of a sudden not work as easily when they face talent that is as big, experienced, and talented or more talented than they are. Not to mention the pressure and intensity gets jacked up as well under bigger lights. Being that I am close to a few on Carondelet I hope they continue to work on and improve the areas they need to improve to pull off an upset or two not just win the predictable and winnable games. Having the ability to upset teams that are better and/or more talented and experienced than you are is the mark of a good team in my book. I guess time will be the best indicator and determining factor.
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I am not close enough to the situation to determine that. Nor do I sit on the selection committee. I think Carondelet was moved up to Division 1 no longer division 2? But I could be wrong about that. I think Carondelet will get serious consideration for the Open Division because there aren't many Norcal teams this year that really look head and shoulders above the rest.The sad thing is( without upsetting a few open division teams head to head in the next month or so) they may get the 7th or 8th seed again which could draw SMS, Mitty, or CW should they get moved up to Norcal Open Division like some are rumoring could happen. And Carondelet would have to improve and make a few adjustments to better their chances of competing successfully in the Open Division. At this point I think they are better suited for Division 1 or 2 and not the Open Division. But the season is still young. And they may have no other choice.
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Carondelet is in Division I, and it's hard to imagine the Division I champion not being moved up to the Open. There are eight slots, and Central Coast will send its two finalists from its own Open division. That leaves six spots, and the default for the new committee would simply be to take the section champions in divisions I, II and III from the North Coast and Sac-Joaquin sections.
Whether they will do this, nobody knows. For example, it may be that both Bishop O'Dowd and Salesian, assuming they play in the NCS Division III final, deserve to be in the Open. And what about Cardinal Newman? And what about the Division I runner-up in the Sac-Joaquin Section?
This new committee will consist of representatives from all over the state, and must do all divisions plus the Open on a single day. Certainly the easy way out is to go with the administrative reality (as opposed to the real reality) that the champions of the larger divisions are automatically better than the champions of the lower divisions. Or they could drill down and really try to pick the best eight teams. We won't know until the meeting – and of course the placement of Clovis West is also going to be an issue.
Whether they will do this, nobody knows. For example, it may be that both Bishop O'Dowd and Salesian, assuming they play in the NCS Division III final, deserve to be in the Open. And what about Cardinal Newman? And what about the Division I runner-up in the Sac-Joaquin Section?
This new committee will consist of representatives from all over the state, and must do all divisions plus the Open on a single day. Certainly the easy way out is to go with the administrative reality (as opposed to the real reality) that the champions of the larger divisions are automatically better than the champions of the lower divisions. Or they could drill down and really try to pick the best eight teams. We won't know until the meeting – and of course the placement of Clovis West is also going to be an issue.
That again will have to be determined. We saw Dublin who were probably 20 point under dogs a couple years ago beat Carondelet in the NCS Championship game. So it's hard to pencil Carondelet in, and I certainly would'nt write them in with ink. There are a few Division 1 teams who in their minds (which is half the battle) believe they can beat Carondelet. James Logan has the Fa'aita sisters two Ex- Carondelet girls who have a pretty good team as does Heritage, Berkeley, MSJ, California, Dougherty Valley, Mt. Eden, Castro Valley, Dublin and a couple of others.
So Carondelet will have to go out and actually win the games on the court, not on paper, or in the board room. If they do that, or not, where they will be is still not in their hands. It's in the hands of the guys with the shirts and ties on sipping coffee and eating crispy cream doughnuts. Smile.
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NCS D-1 will be interesting, as Heritage, Logan and Castro Valley all look to be strong. American and California are also capable of beating folks, so you're right that Carondelet is not a lock to win D-1.
And dropping into the NorCal D-1 won't make things that much easier, as Sac-Joaquin as McClatchy, Folsom and Brookside Christian are all candidates for that bracket as well.
And dropping into the NorCal D-1 won't make things that much easier, as Sac-Joaquin as McClatchy, Folsom and Brookside Christian are all candidates for that bracket as well.
I had them on the bubble but really view them as the 3rd or 4th best team in D3. But if they are D2 then definitely a possibility but I do not think they have enough to beat Carondelet. I have not watched Miramonte this year but assumed they were way down.
jaymel911, CamAca,
In my book coaching is more significant than anything else. That's why I talk about coaching so often. They hold all the strings. They decide who makes the team, who starts, rotations, leadership, accountability, offense, defense, to press or not to press, game plans, if and how the team is prepared, if they will play loose and relaxed, or scared and timid, adjustments, attitudes, confidence, unselfishness,team culture, whether or not bullying is permitted, individual clicks or team work,outside interference, scouting, ball movement, philosophy, tenacity,time outs, tempo, shot selections, and the list goes on.
That said,
Miramonte has collectively perhaps the best coaching staff at least top 3 in Norcal IMO. I know they graduated Sabrina and she was the lightening rod of the team. But the coaching has always been the backbone. Sabrina would not have been as good, confident, and developed IMO without Kelly Sopak and his assistant coaches. I'm sure had she gone to Las Lomas and played club somewhere else she would have been good but probably less confident, over looked, and under developed.
I think of the 3 or 4 players that graduated from Miramonte Sabrina no doubt is the biggest shoes to fill, but I think Howard may be almost as hard a shoe to fill as Sabrina. The defensive plays, blocks shots coming out of nowhere, toughness on the boards, put backs, and things Howard did that didn't show up on the stat sheets are not easily replaceable.
Beating Brea Olinda and playing as well as Miramonte has so quickly after losing 3 or 4 very significant pieces further confirms the importance of good accountable coaching.
I don't see a case for Miramonte to play Carondelet unless they meet up in the Open Division which is possible but a very long shot IMO. I think Miramonte is in division 2 this season and Carondelet Division 1. I agree on paper Carondelet would perhaps have a slight edge on Miramonte. But Brea Olinda might have had a slight edge over Miramonte on paper as well. That is why coaching can make the difference when things are close or all even.
That is perhaps why certain coaches consistently win and attract good player. But many like to twist it to make it seem like it is only the players that make programs successful.
You do have to be a good judge of talent, and know what to do with the players. And set the stage so everyone knows there is strong and accountable leadership in place.
In my book coaching is more significant than anything else. That's why I talk about coaching so often. They hold all the strings. They decide who makes the team, who starts, rotations, leadership, accountability, offense, defense, to press or not to press, game plans, if and how the team is prepared, if they will play loose and relaxed, or scared and timid, adjustments, attitudes, confidence, unselfishness,team culture, whether or not bullying is permitted, individual clicks or team work,outside interference, scouting, ball movement, philosophy, tenacity,time outs, tempo, shot selections, and the list goes on.
That said,
Miramonte has collectively perhaps the best coaching staff at least top 3 in Norcal IMO. I know they graduated Sabrina and she was the lightening rod of the team. But the coaching has always been the backbone. Sabrina would not have been as good, confident, and developed IMO without Kelly Sopak and his assistant coaches. I'm sure had she gone to Las Lomas and played club somewhere else she would have been good but probably less confident, over looked, and under developed.
I think of the 3 or 4 players that graduated from Miramonte Sabrina no doubt is the biggest shoes to fill, but I think Howard may be almost as hard a shoe to fill as Sabrina. The defensive plays, blocks shots coming out of nowhere, toughness on the boards, put backs, and things Howard did that didn't show up on the stat sheets are not easily replaceable.
Beating Brea Olinda and playing as well as Miramonte has so quickly after losing 3 or 4 very significant pieces further confirms the importance of good accountable coaching.
I don't see a case for Miramonte to play Carondelet unless they meet up in the Open Division which is possible but a very long shot IMO. I think Miramonte is in division 2 this season and Carondelet Division 1. I agree on paper Carondelet would perhaps have a slight edge on Miramonte. But Brea Olinda might have had a slight edge over Miramonte on paper as well. That is why coaching can make the difference when things are close or all even.
That is perhaps why certain coaches consistently win and attract good player. But many like to twist it to make it seem like it is only the players that make programs successful.
You do have to be a good judge of talent, and know what to do with the players. And set the stage so everyone knows there is strong and accountable leadership in place.
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You are so right. Sopak is an excellent coach that has coached talented girls and not so talented girls yet they all seem to reach their potential under his guidance. They all end up having solid bball IQs and learn to play unselfishly and with a lot of heart and intensity. They will surprise people even this year despite several freshman starting and playing major roles.
Most coaches would be in rebuilding mode making excuses to under achieve or have already given up with the team he has this season. That is not to take anything away from the top 3 returners Elle, Clair, and Bryant who are all solid players. But they don't have an all star team this season. And it is pretty young. But yes he had the courage and leadership to put the freshman on the floor as starters when many others would do otherwise.
I don't think Miramonte is necessarily Open Division ready, but with the guidance they have, they will be playing at a higher and more confident level sooner than they should based on the leadership they have alone.
I do love the points you made about the effects Sopak's coaching has made on his players. Because truthfully speaking isn't the effect a coach has on their players far more important than just selfishly running your system and winning multiple championships?
I will say that is most important when my children are involved in sports. And who in the world likes to win more than I do?
The best quality that I've seen as a result of Kelly's success is that he has a system that makes his teams go. I've seen his AAU teams practice at Jam Town Many times and his teams do great shooting drills, ball handling drills, but there is NO breakdown whatsoever. Players with terrible shots (technically) don't get better because there is no breakdown for them to get better. I'll give you case and point. De Los Santos was a pretty darn good guard in high school. Kelly had her for 4 years and her shot NEVER got better and her improvement was minimal. Sabrina is and would have been a great player in ANY program she would have went to...so that doesn't count.
I know that teaching shooting is an art and it's only one facet of the game and I'll give credit where credit is due. He's done a great job with both his AAU and HS team in getting them wins. You look at the system he runs (Basically Wallberg's system) and his kids run it to perfection. But to say he's a great coach? What a lot of people misunderstand is a great coach vs. a coach that wins a lot of games. Sue Phillips hands down is one of the best coaches in Norcal. Go watch some of her practices and see how much teaching goes on there.
I know that teaching shooting is an art and it's only one facet of the game and I'll give credit where credit is due. He's done a great job with both his AAU and HS team in getting them wins. You look at the system he runs (Basically Wallberg's system) and his kids run it to perfection. But to say he's a great coach? What a lot of people misunderstand is a great coach vs. a coach that wins a lot of games. Sue Phillips hands down is one of the best coaches in Norcal. Go watch some of her practices and see how much teaching goes on there.
First off, I never called Sue phillips, Kelly Sopak, Doc scheppler, Tom Gonzales, Donovan Blythe, Malik McCord, Criag Campbell, Steven Pezzola, or any other successful girls basketball coach a "great coach" because I don't over use the word "great".
You name the coach from CYO to the NBA and we could all find faults in all of them.
And you can bet everyone who encounters every coach doesn't walk away thinking the world of them. As far as player development goes a lot of individual skill and individual development is a responsibility of the individual. Now are some coaches better than others at player development, of course. As far as De Los Santos and her shot goes, I personally witnessed her sink far too many clutch 3 pointers against our team. So I see nothing wrong with any shot that goes in. Steph Curry, perhaps the best 3 point shooter in the history of the game, once mentioned several coaches tried to change his shot, because they too were into the "one way " to do things technique. Steph said he refused to change his shot to the so call "perfect form" and we all see were that led him. Steph was smart enough to stick to the "Win Anyway " philosophy.
Comparing coaches to me is like comparing players. I don't get into the discussion and habit of specifically putting a player up against another player or a coach up against another coach. All I conclude is whether or not the player can play. And whether or not the coach has a clue about coaching. I think it's fair to say both Sue Phillips, who I have heard both good and not so good things about, and Kelly Sopak, who I have heard both good and not so good things about, can both coach.
I think the best thing to do is ask Sabrina her opinion on whether or not Kelly Sopak had a significant impact on her confidence, development, attitude, toughness, and basketball IQ.
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Doc and Sue. I've never seen a coach break down and then teach skills like Doc. And Sue's vast knowledge of the game, combined with her attention to detail and unending push for excellence make these two coaches the best that I've seen.
without ever seeing a mirarmonte/cal stars practice (so i cant speak on their specific skill development), I would lean towards agreeing with norcal_fan.. Coaches that win a lot of games and get more credit for "developing players" than deserved. They develop them to play their systems but little else. Some skills may improve, but some of these systems do not develop basketball IQ. The players are able to make the limited reads within the system, and become very good at making them, but the same players could struggle in a different system. And these points go for both offense and defense.
Coach phillips isnt the only coach to do so, but I do believe she is the best at developing well rounded players that are able to think the game and play multiple systems. Obviously some players (such as sabrina for this example) are probably smart enough and skilled enough to be plugged into any system and be successful. But I've talked to multiple college coaches who have said that systems do matter some in recruiting and they like kids to be able to know more than run and jump traps and dribble drive offenses. Of course that is in no way saying they wont recruit from those systems (obviously evident), but just some food for thought.
Coach phillips isnt the only coach to do so, but I do believe she is the best at developing well rounded players that are able to think the game and play multiple systems. Obviously some players (such as sabrina for this example) are probably smart enough and skilled enough to be plugged into any system and be successful. But I've talked to multiple college coaches who have said that systems do matter some in recruiting and they like kids to be able to know more than run and jump traps and dribble drive offenses. Of course that is in no way saying they wont recruit from those systems (obviously evident), but just some food for thought.
D2 in the NCS is ABSOLUTELY HORRENDOUS...at this point there may only be 9 or 10 teams that even qualify for section. MIRAMONTE potentially may running clock EVERY team in the section playoffs. They can potentially lose to CAMPO in league and maybe OAKRIDGE tomorrow(but I doubt it)...other than that they aren't losing any other games. After they win the D2 sections this year they will be a 4 time defending section champ, defending NORCAL OPEN champ and a gaudy record of somewhere around 28-2.
IF MIRAMONTE WINS THE D2 SECTION TITLE....THEY ARE A MORTAL LOCK TO BE PUT INTO THE OPEN.
C'mon people...don't kid yourself.... they may not be as good as last year BUT they are still an OPEN team...on par with CLET, BOD, CN and Salesian in the NCS. DONT compare this squad to last years.
IF MIRAMONTE WINS THE D2 SECTION TITLE....THEY ARE A MORTAL LOCK TO BE PUT INTO THE OPEN.
C'mon people...don't kid yourself.... they may not be as good as last year BUT they are still an OPEN team...on par with CLET, BOD, CN and Salesian in the NCS. DONT compare this squad to last years.
As far as CLET???
If they win the D1 section they are going OPEN also. In what alternate universe does the D1 section champ NOT get put into the OPEN???
so with 2 from the CCS locked
2 from the NCS locked
1 from the SJS locked...
where do the other 3 come from?
Logic suggests the NCS D3 winner between BOD and Salesian gets pulled....especially if BOD beats CN next weekend at MLK Stockton event...then Salesian and BOD would both have H2H over CN.....that leaves 2 spots...
Now when CN wins the D4 section do they get pulled and they take 4 teams from the NCS?
Do they take 3 teams from the CCS??? what if MENLO ATH was to upset MITTY in the CCS final 4???
Or would they take a 3rd place SHC or PINEWOOD squad out of the CCS?
3 teams from the CCS have been taken before. 2 yrs ago SI, Pinewood and SHC were put into the OPEN.
and if all that happens.....How does only 1 team get taken from the SJS? There HAS to be at least 2 taken from the SJS right????
and all that is not even taking into consideration if CW gets moved NORTH....which means 1 less team gets put in from the 2nd tier of OPEN potential teams.
so who the &%$# knows...lol
I guess we need to let the season play out
If they win the D1 section they are going OPEN also. In what alternate universe does the D1 section champ NOT get put into the OPEN???
so with 2 from the CCS locked
2 from the NCS locked
1 from the SJS locked...
where do the other 3 come from?
Logic suggests the NCS D3 winner between BOD and Salesian gets pulled....especially if BOD beats CN next weekend at MLK Stockton event...then Salesian and BOD would both have H2H over CN.....that leaves 2 spots...
Now when CN wins the D4 section do they get pulled and they take 4 teams from the NCS?
Do they take 3 teams from the CCS??? what if MENLO ATH was to upset MITTY in the CCS final 4???
Or would they take a 3rd place SHC or PINEWOOD squad out of the CCS?
3 teams from the CCS have been taken before. 2 yrs ago SI, Pinewood and SHC were put into the OPEN.
and if all that happens.....How does only 1 team get taken from the SJS? There HAS to be at least 2 taken from the SJS right????
and all that is not even taking into consideration if CW gets moved NORTH....which means 1 less team gets put in from the 2nd tier of OPEN potential teams.
so who the &%$# knows...lol
I guess we need to let the season play out
Jaymel, That's a good point..
now that I think about it, you're right, I don't think any has... I stand corrected....I take it back.
BUT that being said no D1 champ has been a defending section champ 4 of the last 5 yrs and been an open team every year but 1 like CLET will be if they win the NCS D1 section this year.
there are numerous games about to be played over the next 3 weeks that are going to determine who comes out of the NCS.... BOD, CLET, CN, MM, SALESIAN......I believe 3 of the 5 will go.
With my Miramonte hat on ...
To those who have seen us in person, one question: Does this team have the physical presence to play in the Open? By that I mean, look at our two freshman starters (slender and not tall) and our overall roster (no one over 5-11), and compare to SMS, Mitty and even Cardinal Newman.
At a certain point, physicality and athleticism are decisive factors, and looking at Miramonte live, I think it might be hard to justify that Mats as an Open team.
With less bias, I hope:
Mitty
SHC
SMS
all are Open teams, and can win NorCals and State.
Carondelet is close
Pinewood and Cardinal Newman are within range.
I haven't heard how serious Jordan Cruz's knee injury is, but if she's 100%, McClatchy could have a shot as well. Bishop O'Dowd's lack of size is a limitation, but all the other pieces are in place.
Of course, if Clovis West is moved north, everyone gets bumped down.
To those who have seen us in person, one question: Does this team have the physical presence to play in the Open? By that I mean, look at our two freshman starters (slender and not tall) and our overall roster (no one over 5-11), and compare to SMS, Mitty and even Cardinal Newman.
At a certain point, physicality and athleticism are decisive factors, and looking at Miramonte live, I think it might be hard to justify that Mats as an Open team.
With less bias, I hope:
Mitty
SHC
SMS
all are Open teams, and can win NorCals and State.
Carondelet is close
Pinewood and Cardinal Newman are within range.
I haven't heard how serious Jordan Cruz's knee injury is, but if she's 100%, McClatchy could have a shot as well. Bishop O'Dowd's lack of size is a limitation, but all the other pieces are in place.
Of course, if Clovis West is moved north, everyone gets bumped down.
Miramonte could beat any of the teams you mentioned regardless of how slender their guards are except for Mitty, SMS or CW. Consequently, I think that would qualify them just like several of the others you pointed out that are below the caliber of the three I just mentioned to be an Open candidate.
Based on a SacBee Joe Davidson tweet from Jordan Cruz, it didn't sound like a season-ending injury for her & McClatchy.
Joe Davidson @SaycBee_JoeD Jan 4
She says she will be OK and vows to return soon. Spirits high... @cruzer_06
For McClatchy, they play in a weak league, where the only team/school that can challenge them is Sac. High. They don't play Sac. High until January 25. I would doubt that Jordan Cruz will play in the St. Mary's MLK showcase against Modesto Christian on January 16.
I doubt that McClatchy is "Open division" material. Starting next week, McClatchy starts league play. That means even if McClatchy has blow out wins, their MaxPreps ranking will still drop significantly (get worse) each and every game until the Sac-Joaquin playoffs start, under the MaxPreps ranking formula. This has happened every year since 2013-14 (when McClatchy became post-season contenders).
Last season, McClatchy didn't even qualify and play in the NorCal playoffs. They lost in the 2nd round of the Sac-Joaquin Sections. So there is no repeat history that "should" make McClatchy an "Open" candidate. Also, using last season's Sac-Joaquin Section (SJS) selection committee seeding criteria, McClatchy may get seeded #4 or #5 in the SJS playoffs behind, SMS, Oak Ridge, Folsom, and Brookside Christian. Last year, McClatchy was seeded 6th, behind Golden Valley of Merced, even though McClatchy had neutral site wins over two eventual CIF state champions, Sacred Heart Cathedral and Cardinal Newman, and neutral site wins over Saint Mary's of Albany (who made final 8 of CIF state finals), and West Campus (who lost to Saint Mary's in the final 16 of CIF state finals) all because these great teams were D3, and the SJS selection committee either felt that McClatchy's schedule didn't meet D1 quality, or entirely relied on the MaxPreps rankings, or internal area "politics" took over.
So what the SJS does this year is anyone's guess due to the "politics" of seeding. The SJS can produce some real "head scratchers." Having an off-day and playing at Oak Ridge, Folsom, or Brookside's home court in the 2nd round will cut McClatchy's playoff run very short. And last, the SJS does not give "At-large" invitations into the NorCal.
CCS Open looks like this:
Mitty, SHC, SI, Pinewood and M-A appear to be solid. After that quintet, it gets dicey. Maybe St. Francis or Presentation. Someone from the WBAL (i.e. Menlo, Priory, Eastside Prep). Another public school. But the public side of CCS is very weak this season. Creating a legitimate, full eight-team CCS Open bracket will be tough.
Mitty, SHC, SI, Pinewood and M-A appear to be solid. After that quintet, it gets dicey. Maybe St. Francis or Presentation. Someone from the WBAL (i.e. Menlo, Priory, Eastside Prep). Another public school. But the public side of CCS is very weak this season. Creating a legitimate, full eight-team CCS Open bracket will be tough.
Valley Christian will likely finish above St Francis and Pres in the WCAL. They've played a much tougher schedule and should challenge SI for third.
