CIF and Section Playoff Proposal

[ThunderRam]

Originally posted by mshNASTY:
ThunderRam - Those are hardly NCS' best teams.... Freedom, Montgomery and CNewman, C'mon man! I guess you forgot Campo who was 2-0 against the SJS this year, Clayton Valley was 2-0, Concord was 2-0, all against SJS section playoff semi-finalist and none of those games were even close... so what's your point?

My point was to refute the comment that was made by Paloma, as there is no evidence to support what he's claiming.

I agree that some of the teams listed haven't been among the NCS's best in recent years. I simply listed the NCS games the top tier SJS have played as that's all we have to go on. Some of those games did involve the likes of Pitt, Cal and SRV.

I didn't list Campo, CVC or Concord because they didn't face top SJS teams, which was the focus of the discussion. Although I did expand to include the top 25 and those games were included in that W/L record.

Lastly, since when isn't Cardinal Newman worth mentioning as a top NCS program?

 

[ThunderRam]

Originally posted by observer22:

When you say the SJS' top 4 programs, which 4 teams are you referring to? Or are you looking at each season in review and seeing who the top teams were each season? Each year is different and subject to talent injury swings and top teams some years are not always great the next, except DLS.

The 2nd and 3rd best NCS D1 teams each year are pretty darn good teams. The year Cal played Del Oro they were 5-6, so they weren't a good team that year. Had they played them in 2010 it would have been a much different story, and Cal almost won that game in Sacramento as it was.

I made it clear earlier in the thread - Granite Bay, Del Oro, Grant and Folsom. Those have been the predominant top large school programs the past 6-7 years.

Again, I didn't jump into this thread to make any bold or blanket statements. I merely refuted Palomas statement, which cannot be backed up by actual results. The only games played between the perceived top SJS/NCS teams (which in itself is subjective) and sans DLS have largely been won by the SJS. I further expanded to the top 10 and 25 to increase the sample size as its the only info available. In the end, I believe I overwhelmingly proved his statement to be false as the limited sample size doesn't support his claim.


Regarding the Cal/Del Oro game from 2009, I already pointed out how that game isn't some kind of positive for Cal and the NCS. 4-7 Woodcreek actually beat DO that same year. Does that mean WC was better than Cal because they accomplished what the Griz couldn't? Furthermore, WC wasn't even in the top 30 in the SJS that season and they actually beat DO. What do you think Cal playing them close is supposed to prove? With regard to 2010, we have no idea how a game might have turned out. Calpreps projections are ridiculous and meaningless. There's no reason to cite them.








This post was edited on 2/4 11:50 AM by ThunderRam

 

[Paloma]

Thanks for better clarifying my point Obersver. ha!

 

[mshNASTY]

ThunderRam - It's a year to year thing as far as who's the best. I'm not trying to get snippy but if you didn't mention Campo, CV or Concord because they didn't play the best in the SJS I think peps from Sutter, Oakdale, Tracy, Napa x2 and two other SJS section teams with playoff wins would beg to differ. That's two SJS section champs and a runner up....

 

[1315]

Tram- agree and disagree. Year end record can give some basis for evaluation but absolutely not overall in NCS EBAL specifically, especially as DLS was in that league '08-'11. That 09 cal team had the new coach (those players were "Sanchez" guys) and a new offense. They faced MV who's QB went on to back up some guy named Luck on The Farm. AV had their team of the decade with Stancil an absolute stud dual threat (they LED dls by 11 at the half.) And those two Ls were against arguably Washingtons best team over 20 years. All said, that year sandwiched the 7 pt week 10 loss to Sparty when knowles ripped a 40 yarder with 4:00 to go, and the infamous onside kick game of '10, and an '11 squad that held the veer to 24 in the rain. There should be no discussion as to who Sparty
feared from 07-11....publics, in-state that is. Remind me, how did Folsom fare against Sparty?

 

[ThunderRam]

Originally posted by mshNASTY:
ThunderRam - It's a year to year thing as far as who's the best. I'm not trying to get snippy but if you didn't mention Campo, CV or Concord because they didn't play the best in the SJS I think peps from Sutter, Oakdale, Tracy, Napa x2 and two other SJS section teams with playoff wins would beg to differ. That's two SJS section champs and a runner up....

Those games were factored into the 47-16 record I listed. They weren't factored into the 17-2 record because not one of those teams would be considered top 5 of the past 6-7 years and even longer. They're not on the same level as Folsom, GB, DO and Grant. Oakdale is a top small school, no doubt, but not a top 5 program overall. Tracy hasn't been relevant except for last season and Napa isn't a top 5 program and hasn't been for some time.

Sutter isn't even in the SJS, but would be in the same boat as Oakdale if they were.

Again, I was only using evidence relevant to statement that the NCS's top teams aside from DLS have proven to be as good if not better than the SJS's top 2 teams. There's no evidence to support that claim. In fact, the only games played amongst what would widely would be considered the top teams favors the SJS by a wide margin.

As I stated before, I didn't wish to turn this thread into section debate or pissing match, but simply called out an erroneous statement that was positioned as fact.

 

[ThunderRam]

Originally posted by 1315:

Remind me, how did Folsom fare against Sparty?

Again, why is the DLS card being played? It's not relevant to the discussion, which involved the SJS's top teams vs. the NCS's 2nd place teams - as Palomar put it.

 

[1315]

"Again, why is the DLS card being played? It's not relevant to the discussion, which involved the SJS's top teams vs. the NCS's 2nd place teams - as Palomar put it."

"As you can see, there is nothing to support the premise that the NCS's top teams aside from DLS have been as good or better than the SJS's top 2 teams, let alone their top 25. Not in the past 7+ seasons anyway. The wins just aren't there."

If one doesn't think Cal's challenges/success versus the best D1 team in NorCal in history, for the last decade, belongs in the discussion that's like saying Brady's two SB losses cannot compare him to Montana. It's all relevant compadre when there are fewer head to head to draw conclusions from.

 

[LMRJONES]

Originally posted by mshNASTY:
ThunderRam - It's a year to year thing as far as who's the best. I'm not trying to get snippy but if you didn't mention Campo, CV or Concord because they didn't play the best in the SJS I think peps from Sutter, Oakdale, Tracy, Napa x2 and two other SJS section teams with playoff wins would beg to differ. That's two SJS section champs and a runner up....

CV and Campo, arguably, had their best teams EVER last year. Let's see if they can keep up that level of play in the next few years.

 

[mshNASTY]

Jones - No doubt Campo and CV had perhaps their best seasons ever last season. Over the last 5 years I'd put their records and accomplishments against any program in Nor Cal. They're not one year wonders. Let's not get to off the point, this is why we NEED a more competitive playoff system in California. Let's settle the arguments on the field not the message boards.