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Folsom Vs Oceanside (SDG)

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larry legend33

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Any thoughts on this one? Both teams come in undefeated and feature explosives offenses. Folsom really impressed me with their ability to mix it up and rack off some big running plays last night against Grant. This is one of the areas that makes this team better than in the past. Plus there O-Line is as good as there is in HS.


I just don't see Oceanside staying within 2 scores. Most likely it will be something like 49-28. Browning didn't play that well last night but give Grant a little credit because there DB's and Secondary has legit speed. They were overly physical at times but I doubt browning has seen that sort of quickness this year.
 
Looked to me like Folsom could be thrown on. There were 2 or 3 plays where Grant receivers got behind the Folsom safeties. Now I'm not saying Grant could have won. The Folsom D was very impressive, maybe better than the offense. Just that there could be a chink in the armor.
 
Folsom doesn't have the elite speed at the wideout positions or corner. I agree that Grant got behind defenders a couple times. If Oceanside has some speedsters they could challenge but I still don't see them hanging. Could you imagine if Browning had a "burner" to throw too. I mean his accuracy is incredible.

I'm of the belief now that Folsom would beat any of the SCALS powers this year. DLS at full strength is still in a different league and that is just the way it is.

Question I raise to the board now is this the best team in the history of the SJS? Figure they are going to go 16-0 and will not have had one team challenge them. I think maybe a little early to talk but assuming they handle Oceanside you can certainly make an argument. I know I would.
 
Originally posted by larry legend33:
Folsom doesn't have the elite speed at the wideout positions or corner. I agree that Grant got behind defenders a couple times. If Oceanside has some speedsters they could challenge but I still don't see them hanging. Could you imagine if Browning had a "burner" to throw too. I mean his accuracy is incredible.

I'm of the belief now that Folsom would beat any of the SCALS powers this year. DLS at full strength is still in a different league and that is just the way it is.

Question I raise to the board now is this the best team in the history of the SJS? Figure they are going to go 16-0 and will not have had one team challenge them. I think maybe a little early to talk but assuming they handle Oceanside you can certainly make an argument. I know I would.
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Let's let the next game happen before jumping to that conversation. Selfishly I wish Folsom was playing someone other than a SDS power. If they roll Oside then everyone will say "it's just a SD team". This is the Folsom team I want playing a PAC 5 team or DLS. I just want to see how they'd do.
 
It won't be close Folsom will roll them 49-7! Oceansides offense isn't high powered as noted its average at best. They can't keep up with Folsom. Oh and there's nothing wrong with SD football compared to Orange County get off that garbage! Folsom would destroy any team in this state except for DLS and no I am not a Folsom fan!
 
Despite the fact that they dominated Grant, I wasn't overly impressed with Folsom. Browning has a great O-Line but fell apart with any pressure. Grant's defense committed multiple times (players were flailing all over the place) and their discipline was nothing short of pathetic. Folsom, this year, is very good at capitalizing on other team's mistakes. The ,literally, handful of teams in the entire country that have extreme discipline would beat this Folsom team. Athleticism alone can't beat them.
That being said, from what I have seen this year, I actually like last year's team better.
I can't recall a better SJS team in the past but it would be a very close matchup if last years Folsom played this years. (extremely hypothetical).
 
Huh, wasn't impressed? They were up 46-0 against a 14-0 team. Sure they didn't score on every down an 80yd bomb but this is a legit national top 5 team with loads of D1 players. I still think Josiah Degoura is under recruited. I could see him being 6"3 225-230 in college. Again just a gamer. Also the RB can play at UC Davis/SAC State no problem. He needs to get an offer.

I agree that DLS is the only team in the state that I see posing any problems.


Wait until Browning throws to guys running 4.4-4.5 40 times. Chris Peterson is licking his chops.
 
I just thought the play was sloppy. Grant's fat linemen wore out fast and became nothing more than cones. Browning threw 2 picks early from the little pressure that was created. There is a reason Browning isn't going to a top football program next year. He collapses under pressure. Don't get me wrong, he is an outstanding QB, but the two early picks showed a huge weakness. It takes big and fast linemen, that don't get tired, to take advantage. Only a handful of teams in the country that can do that.
 
Browning is going to Washington where Shaq Thompson plays along with a number of other former and future pro's. Shaq Thompson could have gone to any school in the country and will be making lots of money on Sunday very soon. Washington is an outstanding school both in Football and the classroom. Browning had Nick Saban from Alabama on campus offering him. Last I checked Alabama was decent. That was just not a very intelligent statement.

Folsom might not have been as "Crisp" as in the past last night, but give credit to where its due.
 
Originally posted by Golfpilot:
There is a reason Browning isn't going to a top football program next year.
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Yup, this is why the IGNORE button was created!
rolleye0003.r191677.gif
 
McQueen's great coach Ken Dalton is gone and since 2008 the program has fallen on hard times but I still follow California HS football and watch the games this time of year on TV. Bishop Gorman runs over, around and through all other Nevada HS teams and probably will for years to come. I have watched them, including in their State Championship game against Reed (who is now the best program in Northern Nevada, by far). Gorman is really good (duh) but Folsom super impresses me and I don't know if Gorman could handle them. I did not realize how good Folsom's defense is and how well they can run the ball. This reflects the talent and coaching of their O and D lines who dominated the touted Grant lines from what I saw. With the QB's skill and those lines I think that they can play with anybody...Centennial, DLS, Allen (Texas), Ohio parochial teams, Florida teams and without question SoCal Pac5 teams (including anybody from the Trinity League). Oceanside is a very very good team (I watched their last 2 games online) but I think that they get their butts kicked in the State Bowl game.
 
A Gorman-Folsom (or Gorman-DLS or even a Folsom-DLS) game this year would have been nice to see, but we'll have to be content with what we have. Gorman passed all of their tests and Sanchez is leaving on the highest note possible. Folsom looks as impressive as any time outside of DLS from NorCal in some time. I see them winning by at least 2 TDs next week. DLS will also roll next week.
 
I've seen Folsom play twice this year....and twice last year. This team looks superior to last years team in every faucet. I d love to hear one of the Folsom supporters thoughts on this. The only thing I see missing is high end team speed on the outside..both sides of the ball. I'm not saying they'd beat DLS....but I think you'd get a completely different game than past two years. I hope they roll Oside
 
MRBIG- Same exact thoughts. I've watched them about 8x in person the last 2 years and team speed on the outside is the only thing I see lacking. No real burner but they spread it out so well it doesn't matter that much. There line and D is superior to any that I've seen come out of Folsom.
 
Seen O-Side play four times this year.Against Mission Viejo,Mission Hills,Helix and Edison.They are a solid team.They do everything very good but nothing great.Not a big team or have any blazing speed just solid like Oceanside is known to be.I have only seen highlights of Folsom so I will take your fellas word that they are an elite top ten team in the country.If they are that they will beat Oceanside by 3 TD's because thats what an elite team should do to the Pirates.
 
I've been impressed with Folsom's defense from the start of this year since seeing them against a decent Cathedral team. Browning has also continued to improve and looks to be among the elite QBs. He still makes some bad throws but when you throw the ball that many times in a game it will happen. His accuracy has really been great at the intermediate routes and he throws with excellent timing and accuracy deep. Folsom is a well tuned offense and fun to watch.

As far as the matchup with Grant. I think Grant is a very good team, but they are limited in offense, mistake prone and a little undisciplined (i.e., penalties). Folsom stuffed the running attack in the first half and penalties and mistakes and the game was out of reach at half. A lot had to do with Folsom on both sides of the ball, but the game actually could have been closer in the first half than it was and it also could have been more lopsided. Folsom was clearly the better team and against a better team you cannot make mistakes.

Folsom is an elite team in this state this year and their are probably less than a handful of teams in the state this year that could beat them - DLS, SJB, CC, MD... They could beat these teams as well. DLS first and foremost plays great defense and that showed in the first two wins against Folsom. This Folsom defense does look better than those teams so I would expect it to be a better game this year. You would have to take the Spartans as favorites, but this Folsom team is formidable. Most likely would be a better game at the least. Grant on the other hand has some great athletes and play at a high level, but are way to undisciplined on defense and one dimensional on offense. Yes the QB can wing it, but the offense is not geared to pass. They are geared to run the able and Folsom stopped it.

I think Grant is more in line with the best CCS and SJS teams. They were marginally better than St Mary's and probablt the same with the best in CCS. Folsom and DLS are at another level.

Oceanside is probably better than Grant for the reasons I mention are Grants weaknesses. Oceanside will be a formidable team, but I think Folsom adds the defense dimension this year and also has balance on offense. I think the game could be close for a half and Oceanside may have more success on offense than Grant did in the first half. Still see Folsom ahead, but probably within reach. Folsom offense is relentless and I don't think Oceanside's offense can score enough against to win this game. I don't see them shutting down the Folsom offense the whole game and Folsom can strike fast. I think at some point Folsom will blow the game open and probably will win by 3 TDs and maybe more.
 
Golfpilot u must be on autopilot upstairs if u know what I mean! The 2 picks he threw weren't based on pressure! One he didn't see the safety over the top and was rolling to his right and didn't set his feet. The 2nd was a throwback pass to the TE on a drag and he threw off one foot instead of setting his feet. Seems he got sloppy on a couple throws but to say he can't handle pressure over 2 INT's is absurd! Lets see he broke the NATIONAL record for TD passes and has thrown 7 INT's all year. Which is pretty low for as much as they throw. Oh wait and he broke the NATIONAL record playing in one of the toughest leagues in CA and a tough section. Show some respect for an unbelievable accomplishment by a HS kid and get out of here with your nonsense! I am not a Folsom homer BTW so I am not biased just a HS fan that can appreciate the talents of young men that work their butt off to be successful! While u were eating burgers every weekend, I am guessing Jake Browning was busting his behind to get where he's at! Try some respect and class instead of putting him down and babbling your BS about him having no major offers! You're clueless!
 
Ararar you're dead on with your description of Oceanside! I see it exactly the same way Folsom is just too good for a team that doesn't do anything great! It will take a great team to beat Folsom and Oceanside is good not great!
 
First off -- anybody that believes that this current Folsom team is somehow comparable to last season's team simply hasn't been paying attention and didn't see much of either team. It isn't even close. The offensive and defensive lines are much better. They have a physical rush attack they haven't had before. And their defense is worlds better than it ever has been.

Last season's team would have been in trouble last night against the Pacers because they wouldn't have been able to run the ball the way they did to counter Grant's coverage. They also wouldn't have been as successful at protecting Browning against that speed. Their defense would have been hard pressed to matchup on the line and slow the Pacers rush attack. Last night, they did all of those things because their lines are top notch.

With regard to facing Oceanside next week, I think they will smash the Pirates similarly to Grant Union and Cathedral Catholic. I know score comparisons are typically a flawed way to judge teams, but I think it's fairly clear that their isn't a huge difference between Cathedral Catholic, Helix and Oceanside. Helix and CC split their games while the Oceanside was only 7 points better than the Highlanders. We all remember what Folsom did to CC. Sure, it's 16 weeks later and things can change, but I don't think any of those teams improved any more than Folsom did. Folsom faced a team last night that presented different challenges than they had faced all season and they adapted and overcame quite well. I expect to see the same next week. However, if they do end up in a tight game, who knows how they will respond.
 
In response to the question posed about where Folsom ranks all time in the SJS, I think that's difficult to judge. It's easy to look at it and say they are #1 now because they will have gone 16-0 with, possibly, 16 running clocks and nobody has accomplished that before. Well, there are many things that need to be considered.

First, teams like Cordova (76/85), Grant Union (96/06), Nevada Union (93), Elk Grove (97/98), etc. didn't the opportunity to play more than 14 games and go to Regionals or State.

Secondly, you have to consider the depth in the section at the time. IMO, there weren't many really good teams in the Section this season. For example, Grant Union came into last night's game as undefeated section champs. They had only accomplished that feat twice before, which would indicate that this is one of their best teams ever. However, that is not the case. It is easily argued that -- of their 7 section title winning teams -- this team ranks 4th at best (behind 1996, 2006, 2008). And then there were non-section winners in 1997, 1998, 2009, and 2010 that had far more blue chip talent (Donte Stallworth, Onterrio Smith, Shaq Thompson, Vili Moala, James Sample, etc). Those teams happened to play in a year where the section had more great teams.

While I do think this current Folsom team is among the all-time greats, I think it's debatable that it's even Folsom's best team. Their 2010 team played in a year where the section was deeper and they were more battle tested. Their 2009 team was essentially the same roster as 2010, but they lost in the semi finals to another truly good team. IMO, the 2009 season was the deepest and best I've seen - specifically in the D2 bracket. Had that 2009 team played this year in place of the current team, I think they would have won the section too.

Having said all that, I definitely place this Folsom team in the top 5 best SJS teams from 1976 to current. I never saw Cordova '76 (who is the only area team to win a National title), but I did see all the other teams mentioned and I couldn't rank this Bulldogs team above them.











This post was edited on 12/13 7:44 PM by ThunderRam
 
Originally posted by larry legend33:


Question I raise to the board now is this the best team in the history of the SJS?
Click to expand...
Yes, and in my opinion you don't have to wait for what happens next week. I'm using Elk Grove '98 as the measuring stick and that Elk Grove team came before the SBGs. Folsom has dominated the SJS this year like EG did then, and did it with a better overall defense (though it's interesting that one weakness of both teams IMO was/is pass defense).

Of course there are all kinds of variables to consider, like FieldTurf in the 21st century all but eliminating muddy fields. And if you want to compare player to player, I'm not saying this Folsom team is more talented than some of the section's best teams from the past. I'm just looking at domination.
 
Thunder Ram- I think they are better than the 2010 team because the D is much better and OL is much bigger. They also have balance. That said, I would take the 2010 QB for the high school level because he was such a great two-way threat and their receivers were better then as well. Let's face it- in no way is this Grant team close to the ones with Shaq, Moale, et al.
 
Originally posted by ThunderRam:
In response to the question posed about where Folsom ranks all time in the SJS, I think that's difficult to judge. It's easy to look at it and say they are #1 now because they will have gone 16-0 with, possibly, 16 running clocks and nobody has accomplished that before. Well, there are many things that need to be considered.

First, teams like Cordova (76/85), Grant Union (96/06), Nevada Union (93), Elk Grove (97/98), etc. didn't the opportunity to play more than 14 games and go to Regionals or State.

Secondly, you have to consider the depth in the section at the time. IMO, there weren't many really good teams in the Section this season. For example, Grant Union came into last night's game as undefeated section champs. They had only accomplished that feat twice before, which would indicate that this is one of their best teams ever. However, that is not the case. It is easily argued that -- of their 7 section title winning teams -- this team ranks 4th at best (behind 1996, 2006, 2008). And then there were non-section winners in 1997, 1998, 2009, and 2010 that had far more blue chip talent (Donte Stallworth, Onterrio Smith, Shaq Thompson, Vili Moala, James Sample, etc). Those teams happened to play in a year where the section had more great teams.

While I do think this current Folsom team is among the all-time greats, I think it's debatable that it's even Folsom's best team. Their 2010 team played in a year where the section was deeper and they were more battle tested. Their 2009 team was essentially the same roster as 2010, but they lost in the semi finals to another truly good team. IMO, the 2009 season was the deepest and best I've seen - specifically in the D2 bracket. Had that 2009 team played this year in place of the current team, I think they would have won the section too.

Having said all that, I definitely place this Folsom team in the top 5 best SJS teams from 1976 to current. I never saw Cordova '76 (who is the only area team to win a National title), but I did see all the other teams mentioned and I couldn't rank this Bulldogs team above them.











This post was edited on 12/13 7:44 PM by ThunderRam
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I saw this post after I left my other one. A lot of the points you make here could be filed under the variables to consider that I was talking about.

The reason I'd take this Folsom team over the 2010 one is the the O-Line/D-Line play. This Grant team wouldn't have beaten 2010 Folsom but it would have been able to run the ball on them.
 
NCSF/Mugpush -

I agree regarding the offensive and defensive lines. However, the 2010 team had better skill position players, speed and their ST's play was much better.

I don't think this Folsom team could have beaten that 2010 Grant team. Nobody ran on that defense - other than a mobile QB - and Browning would have been pressured just like he was against DLS. He didn't play exceptionally well last night despite not being overly pressured. The 2010 Grant team set a State sack record and had 6 or 7 D1 players starting on defense. Injuries to Shaq and Ferrence Lang aside, the 2010 Folsom team was able to overcome the Pacers defense due to their skill position players and the legs of Dano Graves. The same factors helped them topple a loaded Serra team a week later.

While the 2010 Bulldogs lines weren't as good as this current team, they were solid enough to allow the skill players to dominate. People really underestimate the 09/10 teams, IMO.

Lastly, that 2010 played 3 games against teams ranked quite high Nationally. They won 2 of the 3. This team hasn't been equally tested. This Grant team nor Oceanside were on the same level as the teams 2010 Folsom faced.
 
Originally posted by PGownsWHITNEY:
Folsom will overwhelm Oside. Take that to the bank...
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While I haven't seen O-Side play, I agree just based on their performance against Helix. I might be wrong, but the Pirates seem fairly comparable to Cathedral Catholic and Helix. They might be slightly better, but is slightly better going to be able to makeup the 45 points CC lost by?

I give O-Side a chance IF they are able to pressure Browning and IF they can do a much better job against the run than Grant did. It's hard to do both. The Pacers did what I thought they should do by playing press bump and run coverage, while throwing a myriad of blitzes at Browning. While it worked to a degree, their run defense suffered as a result. Perhaps the Pirates have better personnel up front to compensate. If they don't, they won't fare any better.

Something tells me, though, they don't have the ability to cover like Grant did and will play zone - trying to keep everything in front of them. Browning will pick that apart.

This post was edited on 12/13 8:38 PM by ThunderRam
 
Thunder- Good analysis and great point regarding facing a healthy Grant 2010 team. I will relent to you.
 
IMO this year's Folsom team ranks near the top because of the OL and DL's. I thought the 2010 Dano Graves with these lines would've been up there near the top because of the dual threat. I went to Cordova and graduated in 1979. The Cordova teams in the late 70's were very good running teams and I followed them for several years after until they closed Mather AFB. The 98 Elk Grove IMO was the best ever to come out of this Section and think they would've rivaled DLS that year. They had just about everything you'd want in a team. Briggs would drag 3-4 defenders 8-9 yards a carry. In their championship game with Atwater Briggs something like 330 yards rushing. The 96 and 2008 Grant teams were also great and I was out of state in 2006 so I cannot comment on that team. Unfortunately we will never know the best but I would put Elk Grove at the top with Grant and the Folsom teams mixed in.
 
Good info Jimmy. Those Cordova teams were special. The Wilhites were amazing.
 
I honestly would rank the Cordova teams maybe behind the best Grant and Folsom teams only because they mainly ran the ball and Folsom does both and Grant at its best I think would've beat the Cordova teams. They weren't the best against stout defenses that could cover sideline to sideline. They had lots of speed around end. If they could beat you to the sidelines they ran for tds all day long. I think this Folsom team would limit them up the middle but Folsom's passing game would pick apart Cordova. Folsom would have to find a way to cover the sidelines or do it just well enough to out score Cordova. Grant would need to play well disciplined and cut down their mistakes.
 
I remember watching an undefeated Cordova team one year with my dad play a Section championship game against a Stockton area school, and the other school shut Cordova down up the middle and ended up beating Cordova that year.
 
Either you guys are all on crack, or I am a Pac 5 elitist. We will find out on Sat.

49-7 Folsom = I have no idea what I am talking about

35-28 = Pac 5 has 7 teams that could have beat both teams.
This post was edited on 12/13 10:40 PM by sammyswordsman
 
i believe Briggs ran for 315 yds and 6 td's vs. Atwater. a man amongst boys indeed.

But yea i think the 98 Herd is tops in the section..... lots of talent and weapons on that squad.... briggs, dinwiddie, cottengim, lundin etc ..... Their Wing-T was relentless... and they had a very scary and efficient passing game.... not to mention a swarming defense
 
Sammy are u saying I have no idea what I am talking about cause I predicted 49-7? Yeah we shall see! There's no way on earth Oceanside puts up 28 on Folsom! Lets see they were getting shutout by Helix for a half and Helix isn't Folsom my friend! I know a little about the SD section and u can take it to the bank this game will NOT be close!
 
You may be right. I just believe Oceanside is coached to well, to let 49-7 happen. I also am of the opinion that Helix is better than Tracy or Grant.


If Folsom puts a running clock on Oceanside, then even I have to give them their credit. From the looks of things, the biggest area of improvement for Folsom is their defense. This could be what is taking them up a notch from last year.
 
Originally posted by sammyswordsman:

I also am of the opinion that Helix is better than Tracy or Grant.
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I'm not. I believe they are all fairly equal. Helix might be a tad better, but the difference is negligible.
 
Folsom has the best team in section history except maybe Cordova in 1970s, and would give them a run. Cant believe Grant was 14-0, They never ran any traps, counters, or misdirections just straight ahead. Dogs by 20+ over Oceanside.
 
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