It ain't this hard

[FanNorth]

The people running most of these sections are making this too hard. It ain't this hard. Whether it's the computer or humans making the rankings or decisions, most of the decisions this year have been wrong. This "2 up and 2 down" system does not lead to equality.

A D1 school can schedule a tough preseason and lose all their games, then go into a weak conference, win enough to be .500, get dropped down to D3, and we think that's okay... Meanwhile, a D3 school can play no one, win, then get moved up to D1. I'm sorry, but this makes zero sense. This system promotes losing.

Another thing that sickens me—no way should Piedmont have been a #1 seed in any division. They were 2-8 in league play (only beating San Leandro by 1 and 10), but most teams blew San Leandro out this year. San Leandro was 3-23 overall and 0-10 in league play. And don't tell me their league was great. This is just one example—there are many more.

What's the point of having divisions if you're going to move teams up or down? Just let teams stay in their divisions, and the best D1, D2, D3, and D4 teams at each level win. If they want to petition up or have multiple years of dominance, then they get moved. It’s not this hard.

 

[ankleassassin]

Attendance doesn't work like that. The private schools would all be D4.

 

[FanNorth]

Actually they wouldn't. Schools like Salesian, Riordan, etc just petition up ( and once you up you stay there) so they can compete for the Open or D1 Champion. They would be sprinkled in many different divisions.

 

[ankleassassin]

Actually they wouldn't. Schools like Salesian, Riordan, etc just petition up ( and once you up you stay there) so they can compete for the Open or D1 Champion. They would be sprinkled in many different divisions.

But if winning is the goal. Why would anyone petition up? Why make my job harder if the system says I am supposed to be where my enrollment is.
And this year we are open, but next season we aren't? When do you decide you are open material? Beginning end during the season?
And stay up? You won't ALWAYS been great.

 

[northbaybbguru]

The OPEN was supposed to take care of the "inequities " of each division as far as a few teams dominating. But of course that wasn't good enough because even if the big dawg is taken out for the Open there's always a next man up for that mantle. It's sports and there is ALWAYS someone bigger, stronger and better...its how it works and that's OK.

 

[northbaybbguru]

The OPEN was supposed to take care of the "inequities " of each division as far as a few teams dominating. But of course that wasn't good enough because even if the big dawg is taken out for the Open there's always a next man up for that mantle. It's sports and there is ALWAYS someone bigger, stronger and better...its how it works and that's OK.

Suffice to say I completely agree the 2 up/2down crap is stupid. When the system is set up where losing a game actually BENEFITS a team then the system sucks.

 

[bones40]

One easy fix would be to get the privates back into a league of there own and this 2 up 2 down crap would not be an issue just put put the privates school league back together

 

[FanNorth]

But if winning is the goal. Why would anyone petition up? Why make my job harder if the system says I am supposed to be where my enrollment is.
And this year we are open, but next season we aren't? When do you decide you are open material? Beginning end during the season?
And stay up? You won't ALWAYS been great.

I said you can petition up to a division Open would still be based on the committee. Example Salesian is a D4 but to petition up to D1 in Basketball. They can not go back down. Competing for an open or D1 is different than competing for the lower levels.

 

[ankleassassin]

Not all private schools are equal. De la salle vs college prep. Salesian vs quarry lane?
Nobody wants that.

 

[FanNorth]

Suffice to say I completely agree the 2 up/2down crap is stupid. When the system is set up where losing a game actually BENEFITS a team then the system sucks.

yup I agree with you. My point you are promoting losing, terrible

 

[FanNorth]

The OPEN was supposed to take care of the "inequities " of each division as far as a few teams dominating. But of course that wasn't good enough because even if the big dawg is taken out for the Open there's always a next man up for that mantle. It's sports and there is ALWAYS someone bigger, stronger and better...its how it works and that's OK.

I think most of the time they get open right, I'm not disagreeing with that. but there is no way a D1 school should be in D3 or a D2 in D4. or there is no way a 2-8 team in any division is a number 1 seed. NO one in this forum can tell me they would put a 15-14, 2-8 at a number one seed. (and once again there are other examples I just use this one because its easy).

 

[kiddman32]

Promoting teams up by the CIF committee for the playoffs, being moved up 1 or 2 divisions isn't that bad.

The problem is letting teams play at a lower division. NO below-average D1 teams ending up in D3, for example.

How about... If your school doesn't win enough to make your division's playoffs, TOUGH. If that leaves some 1st-round byes in the tourney, FINE. If your school wants to make the appropriate playoffs, PLAY BETTER.

The system would (probably) work pretty well if this clause (or maybe a more-kindly worded one that says the same thing) were added.

 

[FanNorth]

Promoting teams up by the CIF committee for the playoffs, being moved up 1 or 2 divisions isn't that bad.

The problem is letting teams play at a lower division. NO below-average D1 teams ending up in D3, for example.

How about... If your school doesn't win enough to make your division's playoffs, TOUGH. If that leaves some 1st-round byes in the tourney, FINE. If your school wants to make the appropriate playoffs, PLAY BETTER.

The system would (probably) work pretty well if this clause (or maybe a more-kindly worded one that says the same thing) were added.

i can agree with moving up 1 or to open isnt bad, and agree with what you say the problem is. Yes I would rather see a bye then whats happening now. PLAY BETTER ... Its one of the worst systems i have seen and the people in that committee room need to stop making decisions that make no sense. There is a reason that don't allow coaches in those meetings. There is ZERO transparency and I'm calling them out.

 

[Streak One]

If you look at the old enrollment based divisions, how many teams were really poory aligned from a competitive standpoint? I don't think it is many for each sport. So move those teams around (Salesian to Division I/Open for boys basketball) and then keep the enrollment divisions. With that format, there was more context to the tournament. Now it is teams going up and down without much reason.

 

[observer22]

The 2 & 2 is really arbitrary and questionable if the goal is competitive equity. Moreau is the largest school in D4 at 809, with almost twice as many students as Salesian at 425. They could just as easily be D3. But we take all good D3 teams up to D1, and allow 2 really good D4 privates to stay in D2? CN has 566.

 

[FanNorth]

If you look at the old enrollment based divisions, how many teams were really poory aligned from a competitive standpoint? I don't think it is many for each sport. So move those teams around (Salesian to Division I/Open for boys basketball) and then keep the enrollment divisions. With that format, there was more context to the tournament. Now it is teams going up and down without much reason.

Right, someone just decided to come make drastic changes for no reason or their own agenda.

 

[ankleassassin]

Moreau is the smallest school in their league and have been dominant for years now.
Logan has 4 times the students and they are terrible after Easley left.