Lynbrook on the slab
- Thread starter colhenrylives
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Lynbrook did belong in the open because of their quality wins and quality close loss to American #1 seed in a good Division 1 NCS. When you have a season like they have you should be proud of it no matter what. They had some injuries to key kids to end the season which has made it impossible to compete against 2 WCAL teams. They definitely got a small 2 game taste of what it would be like to play in the WCAL for any good public school team.
The bottom line is they should be proud of their accomplishments. You can't get too addicted to winning because then reality becomes harsh. They have to take their medicine, they earned it.
The bottom line is they should be proud of their accomplishments. You can't get too addicted to winning because then reality becomes harsh. They have to take their medicine, they earned it.
The bottom line, in many ways, is that only eight girls' teams in California that qualify for postseason will end the season with a win. That's out of about 1,300 schools.
Lynbrook may drop down to the D-2 NorCal bracket, and they might win it -- but they could easily lose. There are a lot of pretty good teams out there, and only a very few are smiling after their last game.
Lynbrook may drop down to the D-2 NorCal bracket, and they might win it -- but they could easily lose. There are a lot of pretty good teams out there, and only a very few are smiling after their last game.
Lynbrook was drilled on a neutral court by a Sequoia team that finished third in the PAL South. They were far from being a dominant team.
That was in december... and they went on to win like 15 in a row including a win over a WCAL team. Thats pretty damn dominant for a public school in the south bay, and you've been around long enough to know that
I was at that game and it looked like Valley could have won by 28-30 if they really wanted to. Not sure if the coach was trying to get them ready for state playoffs but he started rotating young players early. Lynbrook had some injuries early in the game but nonetheless there are levels to this. If I'm Lynbrook I'm still excited I made Open division but maybe not excited about missing an opportunity to win the CCS D1 section
Lynbrook would have played D2 in CCS had they not gone open. There they would have faced Aragon, and either Pres or St. Francis (one of those would have taken Lynbrook's place in the open.) It was not guaranteed they would have won the CCS D2 title. On the other hand, I've heard that CCS is sending all four D2 semi-finalists to Nor Cals. Has anyone else heard the same?
Without a physical, inside presence, Lynbrook is not a dominant outfit. They are small, smart, quick, savvy and very well-coached. But they are limited. Which is OK. There's nothing wrong with that. They can do severe damage vs. suspect CCS public schools which cannot handle their pressure. The argument in this corner is simple: They didn't deserve to be a CCS sacrificial lamb in the playoffs. They did deserve a shot at a CCS Division II title. Now, with NorCals looming, where will Lynbrook be placed? Probably Division I or II. Neither will be an easy road for them. Division III would be better for them. But the CCS Open designation will plague them at the seeding meeting. They may be shoved too high in the pecking order because of that. Then again, perhaps their unfortunate scores in the Open will open some eyes on the seeding committee. We shall see. We wish Lynbrook (or any CCS public) well in the apples vs. oranges (publics vs. private/parochials) NorCal playoffs. By the way, please note that American was not considered strong enough to be one of the NCS Open teams this year. NCS did it right with just six teams selected for the Open. CCS might learn something. Or not.
Col. you are absolutely right in that if Lynbrook gets placed in D1 that would be a crying shame and we should revolt against the CCS committee. But if they do they do right by Lynbrook and fight for them to be in D3 where they should be then the system could work. Lets remember they were a 14 seed in D3 last year and lost in the first round so jumping into a higher div is a huge jump for one year. Being rewarded with an automatic bid with a nice high seed in D3 would be something we could celebrate about the CCS open and public schools. Again, if they botch this, then your argument that publics should never be in the open gains some steam. I hope thats not the case...
What other bad losses do they have? One can't anticipate injuries. And you earn your spot or seed. Lynbrook earned an open seed. The cif seeding committee doesn't have time to look at scores or injuries. They will seed how each team appeared in their section playoff. The wildcards are the oal and city and northern sections. They got favorable seeds last year.
I don't think Lynbrook beats Oakland Tech who will probably be placed in D3 this year I'm thinking. So D3 should be a good place for them in the State Playoffs. If they place them better than D3 then I think the victories they had over Presentation and Sacred Heart Prep are being over valued.
...again, just hoping Lynbrook does not get hosed by the NorCal seeding committee because CCS declared them to be an Open Division team...that would wind up becoming a double-penalty for them...
Lynbrook will not be put in D1 in Norcals. They will be a mid/low seed D2. If the committee is feeling generous they could catch a break and get a high seed in D3 (which is a possibility). But if I was a betting man I'd bet they are headed to D2.
Obviously an 8 team open and 16 seed D1 will have ramifications over say a 6team Open and 12 team D1. That would be an extra 6 teams needed for D1.
Obviously an 8 team open and 16 seed D1 will have ramifications over say a 6team Open and 12 team D1. That would be an extra 6 teams needed for D1.
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Yea tell that to all the other D2 public schools in CCS... not a single close game as the 2 worst teams in the WCAL meet in the finals...
True. Last year they put Menlo in D2 in State, so it's possible Lynbrook could get dumped in D2 and Bounced first game. Unlike Menlo I don't think D2 would be good for Lynbrook. I hope they do well where ever they are placed.
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So what does that mean for WCAL in NorCal? One and done for every school? What must WCAL schools or any league schools do to be considered good and not over rated?
So here's the thing: By designating Lynbrook as an Open team, they are no worse, in CCS's mind, than the eighth best team in the section. It would be very hard to justify placing the D-1 winner ahead of Lynbrook because CCS has already decided Lynbrook is better and would have won D-1.
On to the mechanics of NorCals: Each section presents an ordered list to the committee, and Lynbrook is No. 8 in CCS. The job of the committee is to meld those lists.
Let's say the top eight go to the Open. Now the committee is presumably down to the third spot in CCS. The only way Lynbrook winds up in D-2 is if only five CCS teams are among the 16 in D-1. Let's say Oakland Tech is D-1, which they want and should be.
Oakland Tech: 1
NCS: 5
SJS: 5
CCS: 5
In that scenario, Lynbrook would be one of the top three seeds in D-2. But let's say four NCS teams are in the Open -- then NCS would be starting at No. 5, so for the committee to drop Lynbrook to D-2, they would have to say that No. 9 on the NCS list is better than No. 7 on the CCS list. And note that No. 9 in NCS is probably the D-2 champion (6 to Open, D-1 winner and runner-up). So does an Open team drop below a D-2 team, meaning a D-2 team winds up in NorCal D-1 while a Section Open team drops to D-2?
I know that's convoluted, but I think Lynbrook is more likely to be D-1 than D-2 because the committee would have to say that Alameda or Montgomery were better than Lynbrook. That's fine-tuning, really, and it's just easier to put the Open team in D-1.
On to the mechanics of NorCals: Each section presents an ordered list to the committee, and Lynbrook is No. 8 in CCS. The job of the committee is to meld those lists.
Let's say the top eight go to the Open. Now the committee is presumably down to the third spot in CCS. The only way Lynbrook winds up in D-2 is if only five CCS teams are among the 16 in D-1. Let's say Oakland Tech is D-1, which they want and should be.
Oakland Tech: 1
NCS: 5
SJS: 5
CCS: 5
In that scenario, Lynbrook would be one of the top three seeds in D-2. But let's say four NCS teams are in the Open -- then NCS would be starting at No. 5, so for the committee to drop Lynbrook to D-2, they would have to say that No. 9 on the NCS list is better than No. 7 on the CCS list. And note that No. 9 in NCS is probably the D-2 champion (6 to Open, D-1 winner and runner-up). So does an Open team drop below a D-2 team, meaning a D-2 team winds up in NorCal D-1 while a Section Open team drops to D-2?
I know that's convoluted, but I think Lynbrook is more likely to be D-1 than D-2 because the committee would have to say that Alameda or Montgomery were better than Lynbrook. That's fine-tuning, really, and it's just easier to put the Open team in D-1.
I rest my case. It's entirely possible that Lynbrook will be stabbed not once but twice. Thanks a bunch. Have a nice day.
They beat the potential D1 winner and won that league! Jeez why do they even play the games then???!
Third place wbal team not placed in open just won CCS crown by 30. Still think lynbrook should have been in open? A CCS debacle. Do these schools offer CCS free gym time to stay out of open?
So are you saying Lynbrook should have been in that same bracket in order win by more than 30?
It's interesting that Woodside Priory which "attracts" basketball players from other programs and places (and has boarding facilities to help with this attraction) plays much inferior teams every year in CCS div 5. For at least the past 4 years they have been the number 1 seed in this division and their margin of victory has been:
2020: 49, 40 and 30 points.
2019: 41, 21 and 23 points
2018: 40, 13 and 39 points
2017: 50, 43 and 21 points
2020: 49, 40 and 30 points.
2019: 41, 21 and 23 points
2018: 40, 13 and 39 points
2017: 50, 43 and 21 points
Am saying schools worked it hard to NOT be in open that should have been and so they made lynbrook the sacrifice lamb. People have said lynbrook may not have won div 2. What kind of logic is that ? So they should be put in open over third place WBAL team? This was CCS malfeasance
No such luck Colonel. Lynbrook was able to parlay their CCS Open debacle into a 12 seed in D2, and a road trip to Fresno.
Thank you. Hose job Number 2. What the heck. It is what it is. Play the hand you're dealt. Just don't bet the house on a W in the Central Valley.
By the way, if the CIF can limit its NorCal Open Division to just five units and SoCal to seven, CCS can limit its Open participants to fewer than eight without people going into hysterics.
I think one issue is filling its NorCal slots -- so the sections have to designate how many teams from the Open and each division advance to NorCals in advance.
I'm not familiar with the CCS rules, but presumably the eight spots for the Open work with the number of CCS slots for NorCals overall. And remember CCS finally agreed to fill all the slots this year, after leaving some blank in the past.
And to change the structure of the Open would require a formal section process culminating in a vote by the Board of Governors.
I'm not familiar with the CCS rules, but presumably the eight spots for the Open work with the number of CCS slots for NorCals overall. And remember CCS finally agreed to fill all the slots this year, after leaving some blank in the past.
And to change the structure of the Open would require a formal section process culminating in a vote by the Board of Governors.
Lynbrook down 53-28 in the 3rd based on MaxPreps. CCS is having a tough run tonight.
terrible.. SI and VC should have been d2 and Lynbrook should have been d3.. the Col. called it.. CCS screwed em
I agree. VC looked very undisciplined on the court. Some of the players mannerisms were very unmotivating from what I saw watching that game. SI game seemed more competitive but they still took the loss. Lynbrook got their head beat in as I expected against a long athletic San Joaquin Memorial. But there are 16 seeds and you gotta fill them out.
One more time: Lynbrook's previously fine public school season concluded with three one-sided defeats, all developed and nourished by the wonderful folks who forced them into the CCS Open Division, then utterly hosed them again by granting them a terrible bracket/seed in NorCals and sending them to Fresno for an absolute pasting. Thanks a lot. Lynbrook got no benefit whatsoever for being shunted into the private/parochial CCS Open. In fact, they wound up being penalized. What a charade, what a disservice to the Lynbrook players, coaches, families and fans.
I now completely agree with you. You were right. I was really hoping they would have done right by them in NorCal.. they had the chance and instead they completely screwed them like you said they would.
By forcing Lynbrook into the CCS Open, it provided the NorCal seeding people with a false indication of the team's actual strength. Lynbrook should have been a top 4 seed in NorCal Division III. But no. That bogus Open designation killed them at the seeding meeting, forcing them up into Division II with a horrible seed and a road trip from hell. Your unhappy colonel is heading now for 40 winks, Good night and good luck. Just shoot me.
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