Interesting, I heard Seaside was staying up, but I hope what you’re saying is right. Also heard Carmel is staying in the Mission. Monterey to the Mission (don’t know who they are replacing). Gonzales and Soquel up replacing PG and St. Francis.
PCAL Shuffle
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Interesting, I heard Seaside was staying up, but I hope what you’re saying is right. Also heard Carmel is staying in the Mission. Monterey to the Mission (don’t know who they are replacing). Gonzales and Soquel up replacing PG and St. Francis.
L...M....A....O. So now Carmel is suddenly on Marina’s level in terms of roster size?
I bet no one can guess the team being moved up from the mission division either as of right now
On a random note, Imagine what would happen to the area if Blankenship left Aptos or retired and another high school opened in Hollister. Instead of a big 4 we would have a big 2.
They need to open another school in hollister. Salinas and hollister have the 4th and 5th highest cbeds in ccs.
It’s funny though... they’re opening another school in Salinas, partially to alleviate the current overcrowding situation... but it’s located way the hell north. How is that supposed to impact Salinas High?
It doesn’t lol it pulls from Alvarez and north high. Which maybe their student-teacher ratio is worse than Salinas high.
Rumor is they are going to try and crack down on inter district transfers. Salinas is basically an open district currently. They also added more housing off of San Juan Grade rd and there was area to build a new school so while it might not have been ideal it was the best possible scenario. If they crack down on boundaries within the district Salinas will have its enrollment drop. There aren’t any developments happening in South Salinas so no point in adding a school around there.
That was going to be my guess too. I wonder what criteria they use? It must have been a pretty contentious meeting I'd guess?
Although I don’t believe that they should, their my next bet to move up due to their enrollment. Their offensive system has been gaining steam over the last few years. Would be a shame if they end up going to the Gab, because we all know what SHOULD happen.
Finally can post this, but Carmel is not moving up to the Gabilan. Turns out Seaside May be moved down afterall with no team replacing them. Apparently Gilroy is staying in the Gabilan despite finishing 0-7 in league?
Not old news to the general public, which is why I posted it here now and not a couple weeks ago when I heard that Carmel was not being moved up.
While I think going to 7 teams in the Gabilan is a step in the right direction, it’s hard to reconcile who stays up and who didn’t get forced up. There must be a lot of weight placed on enrollment and maybe the size of JV squads, though that isn’t a great indicator of Varsity strength in all cases.
Reported by John Devine in the last hour - Board of Governors set football leagues for next season with Carmel moved up to Gabilan and Seaside moved down.
Realignment for the Pacific Coast Athletic League Divisions
Gabilan Division
Alvarez
Aptos
Carmel
Christopher
Gilroy
Palma
Salinas
San Benito
Mission Division
Alisal
Monterey
Monte Vista
North Salinas
Scotts Valley
Seaside
Soledad
Cypress Division
Gonzales
King City
North County
San Lorenzo Valley
Soquel
Watsonville
Santa Lucia Division
Greenfield
Harbor
Marina
Pacific Grove
Pajaro Valley
St. Francis, Watsonville
Stevenson
Realignment for the Pacific Coast Athletic League Divisions
Gabilan Division
Alvarez
Aptos
Carmel
Christopher
Gilroy
Palma
Salinas
San Benito
Mission Division
Alisal
Monterey
Monte Vista
North Salinas
Scotts Valley
Seaside
Soledad
Cypress Division
Gonzales
King City
North County
San Lorenzo Valley
Soquel
Watsonville
Santa Lucia Division
Greenfield
Harbor
Marina
Pacific Grove
Pajaro Valley
St. Francis, Watsonville
Stevenson
I could see Gilroy moving to the Mission and Scotts Valley dropping to the Cypress, but otherwise, I'm happy. Very happy that Carmel did not get to skirt the rules of an equity league.
Carmel being moved up was a late development. There were a couple proposals they decided between initially; neither had Carmel in the Gabilan.
https://www.montereyherald.com/2018...-to-the-gabilan-seaside-drops-to-the-mission/
Here is an article on the move. Sounds like Carmel was caught by surprise being moved up. They may not field a JV team next year and only a Varsity and Freshman team. Problem is I do not think they will get enough kids, I would say a minimum of 20, to field a Freshmen only team. Plus there are about 10 or so Freshman on this years squad that are not ready for varsity, and could really use the extra year of getting reps on a JV squad.
Carmel will be competitive next year, probably more so than Seaside this year. But they will be lucky to compete for 4th or 5th place. I can see them upsetting one of the "big 4" and also losing to a Christoper or Gilroy.
What I don't understand is with the new CIF mandate of no Runner Ups allowed into the Regional's, why have equity for football? Switch to a geographic/enrollment based leagues (like before) and pre-populate the 5 playoff divisions based on enrollment and equity. Similar to NCS and to Southern section.
I know Carmel Has been a very successful program over the past 10 years, But putting them into this league is not the right thing to do.
Here is an article on the move. Sounds like Carmel was caught by surprise being moved up. They may not field a JV team next year and only a Varsity and Freshman team. Problem is I do not think they will get enough kids, I would say a minimum of 20, to field a Freshmen only team. Plus there are about 10 or so Freshman on this years squad that are not ready for varsity, and could really use the extra year of getting reps on a JV squad.
Carmel will be competitive next year, probably more so than Seaside this year. But they will be lucky to compete for 4th or 5th place. I can see them upsetting one of the "big 4" and also losing to a Christoper or Gilroy.
What I don't understand is with the new CIF mandate of no Runner Ups allowed into the Regional's, why have equity for football? Switch to a geographic/enrollment based leagues (like before) and pre-populate the 5 playoff divisions based on enrollment and equity. Similar to NCS and to Southern section.
I know Carmel Has been a very successful program over the past 10 years, But putting them into this league is not the right thing to do.
I think people North of us here in Monterey County could laugh a little bit as we deem a very successful team as being unfairly placed up.. Carmel is no different than some of the other DIII teams that compete in A Leagues.. Stop with this pity party.. They are a GREAT program. Great coaches, resources, athletes you name it.. And they were 10-0! They beat Salinas High School; go check how some of those weak Gab teams fared in that game..
Aside from that.. Carmel will have one of the best athletes in the league at RB, a 3 year starter at QB who will be one of the top QB's in that league and a number of returners (like everyone else) to fill in with. I don't feel sorry for them one bit.. CANT WAIT!
Aside from that.. Carmel will have one of the best athletes in the league at RB, a 3 year starter at QB who will be one of the top QB's in that league and a number of returners (like everyone else) to fill in with. I don't feel sorry for them one bit.. CANT WAIT!
Just a side-note, any body else find the complaining about finding an extra non league game by the Gabilan schools as a reason not to cut the league down to 7 schools funny? As if it would be THAT hard to find another game. Take Aptos for example. They bigtime their decades old rivals Watsonville and stop scheduling them but now act like they can’t find another game on short notice? GTFOH.
I do agree with you and it shows how powerful the Gabilan top 4 teams are in decided the fates of all the other programs in PCAL. The vote for Carmel has practically uniamous. However, I find the choice to keep Gilroy up in Gabilan and move Watsonville down inconsistent. Gilroy stays up because of their CBED. Watsonville also has a high CBED but moves down.
I think the arguement of numbers in JV are a valid but I think the solution is to have JV programs have their own league alignments separate of their varsity teams. Successful JV programs don’t make for successful varsity teams and vice versa.
Also Carmel had 6 sophomores and 1 freshmen on varsity. If they valued their JV program that much and are using declining numbers on JV as an arguement not to be bumped up maybe stop pulling so many kids up.
831 I agree and was thinking the same thing. I believe the logistics of having 2-3 separate football teams needing access to stadiums and refs would prove to be daunting and maybe even cost prohibitive. Thursday night Freshmen team is traveling to Aptos, Friday night Varsity is at King City while trying to host a JV game vs Pacific Grove. Maybe smarter people than me can figure it out.
And a lot has to do with the priorities of the individual programs. Carmel moves it's best sophomores up in order to maintain a roster of at least 40 on varsity and to be competitive. That means JV is at around 25-30, with more than half being Freshmen. Carmel will have +/- 70 kids next year for 2 programs. Most other schools in the Gabilan will have upwards of 120+ kids.
True, 7 underclassmen, 3 started (at various times this season) and 1 other contributed a lot. The argument could be made the other 3 could of helped the JV team. To maybe a 4 win instead of 3 win season? That does not change anything.
Should they not of moved any of them up and had a strong JV team and not as good as varsity. Without them the argument could be made they loose another game or 2.
Gabilan should be no more than a 6 team league, with a minimum of 100 players in all levels of football, unless a smaller school/program wants a chance to compete at the A league level. The scheduling thing is ludicrous, the Cypress division will only have 6 teams.
I know the logistics would be a nightmare lol in a perfect world though. I don’t think anyone likes these league alignments besides the big 4 in Gabilan and perhaps the consistently bad C Santa Lucia teams. Wish we could go back to some version MBL TCAL, SCAL, and MTAL. No realignments but make leagues fair based on proximity and program strength.
Carmel, Seaside, Monterey all should be in the same league all the time. They are right next to each other for one. Two all three teams are consistently competitive.
Same can be said for Soledad, Gonzales (recently) and King City.
As well as Alvarez, North Salinas, Alisal.
If they lost another game or two they wouldn’t be in the Gabilan. Now they will be stuck there. They will beat Gilroy and they will beat Alvarez. Possibly can beat Christopher.
When you look to make a mutual fund investment you will always find a statement like this in the fine print:
"Past performance is no guarantee of future results".
Equity league decisions should be made based on a discussion of both past results and also future projections. Just because Carmel has been good for the past 10 years is not a reason to force them up. Look at PG's record over the same period...on top of the MTAL for years and then down in the dumps.
Carmel loses virtually all their defense to graduation. Admittedly the offense should be good. But can they score 56 points every game and hope to hold their opponents to 55?
More importantly, the pipeline coming up is nearly empty. Their JV team fielded just 26 players (17 of them freshmen) and was 3 and 7...forfeiting the Salinas game over concerns about player safety.
And it is doubtful the pipeline will get better. 22 freshmen in 2017...17 this past season. Which makes me ask. How many Gabilan schools had just 17 freshmen suit up this year? For that matter, how many area programs in all the Divisions had just 17 freshmen come out to play football?
Plus the Carmel Youth Football program was shuttered this year because not enough kids signed up. So that early pipeline no longer exists.
And put yourself in a parent's position and suppose you are even the slightest bit concerned about concussions. What do you say to your son when you see the Padres will be playing Palma, Aptos, Salinas, San Benito and other large schools? Maybe most varsity parents will say ok, but the concern has to be about the incoming freshmen. Every school knows there is a substantial drop-off in participation between playing as freshmen and remaining on the team for four years. Not so much of a problem for large enrollment schools or football factory private schools, but you only have to look one town over to PG to see a proud school with a winning tradition that petitioned to be in the C league this year so they could try to get back on their feet.
Hate to sound like the sky is falling but this could be an SMU death penalty like decision. Just because a large number of administrators are tired of seeing Carmel be successful. And a number of Gabilan coaches are too lazy to have to find another non-league opponent to play against.
"Past performance is no guarantee of future results".
Equity league decisions should be made based on a discussion of both past results and also future projections. Just because Carmel has been good for the past 10 years is not a reason to force them up. Look at PG's record over the same period...on top of the MTAL for years and then down in the dumps.
Carmel loses virtually all their defense to graduation. Admittedly the offense should be good. But can they score 56 points every game and hope to hold their opponents to 55?
More importantly, the pipeline coming up is nearly empty. Their JV team fielded just 26 players (17 of them freshmen) and was 3 and 7...forfeiting the Salinas game over concerns about player safety.
And it is doubtful the pipeline will get better. 22 freshmen in 2017...17 this past season. Which makes me ask. How many Gabilan schools had just 17 freshmen suit up this year? For that matter, how many area programs in all the Divisions had just 17 freshmen come out to play football?
Plus the Carmel Youth Football program was shuttered this year because not enough kids signed up. So that early pipeline no longer exists.
And put yourself in a parent's position and suppose you are even the slightest bit concerned about concussions. What do you say to your son when you see the Padres will be playing Palma, Aptos, Salinas, San Benito and other large schools? Maybe most varsity parents will say ok, but the concern has to be about the incoming freshmen. Every school knows there is a substantial drop-off in participation between playing as freshmen and remaining on the team for four years. Not so much of a problem for large enrollment schools or football factory private schools, but you only have to look one town over to PG to see a proud school with a winning tradition that petitioned to be in the C league this year so they could try to get back on their feet.
Hate to sound like the sky is falling but this could be an SMU death penalty like decision. Just because a large number of administrators are tired of seeing Carmel be successful. And a number of Gabilan coaches are too lazy to have to find another non-league opponent to play against.
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Schools being smart about how they develop their lower levels is not a bad thing.. The schools that put together teams of 20 or so and wing it is backwards and part of the issue when you see programs decline overall. Forgive me but lumping Carmel into this is a joke! I believe the rules for frosh are technically frosh/soph so there is nothing saying you can't put your freshman and sophs that aren't quite ready for Varsity at that level. This is a shift that would help your smaller schools facing a number crunch that still have talent. If Carmel has only 2 teams than it is what it is.. So what. The fact that the AD's let Carmel threaten no JV team (and it worked) was the real joke! Props to the Board of Managers for fixing this and with 25-2 vote it wasn't the sign of collusion, its a sign that WTF are we doing! Carmelkyd you mention dips in lower levels, although Carmel historically brings up a ton of sophomores (a good thing).. Number dips are going on everywhere and you have to address it with something other than just complaining (Coach Avila).. If you notice Golden is bringing the next level flag football to the Peninsula, that's a perfect example. In the end, everyone is going to be split on this one but none of the arguments presented should be justification for staying down in the Mission.. North High had to go up even when having a senior loaded team (and got thrashed afterwards) so why are the Carmel kids more important? Going way back but I around the meetings when Marina was wanting to go 11 man and join the MTAL.. Carmel was apart of the league that despite a super young team, said Varsity level or nothing.. 0-26 to start, and an example of scheduling headaches trumping safety and what was probably best for kids.
[QUOTE "831footballblitz, ...around the meetings when Marina was wanting to go 11 man and join the MTAL.. Carmel was apart of the league that despite a super young team, said Varsity level or nothing.. 0-26 to start, and an example of scheduling headaches trumping safety and what was probably best for kids. QUOTE]
So maybe I am missing something here. Your point here is boo on you guys who "made" Marina play a Varsity schedule leading to an 0-26 start and was an example of scheduling headaches trumping safety and what was best for the kids.
But you are good with Carmel playing a 75% frosh/25% sophomore "JV" team against Gabilan JV teams which are all sophomore and even 90%soph/10%junior JV teams. Carmel doesn't have enough freshmen to make up a freshmen team. So they have a JV team that is mostly freshmen. And your opinion is that it is good to see Carmel's JV team playing against much more experienced (and bigger) Gabilan JV teams? Aren't you advocating the same scheduling headaches for Carmel's JV team which trumps safety and what is best for the kids?
So maybe I am missing something here. Your point here is boo on you guys who "made" Marina play a Varsity schedule leading to an 0-26 start and was an example of scheduling headaches trumping safety and what was best for the kids.
But you are good with Carmel playing a 75% frosh/25% sophomore "JV" team against Gabilan JV teams which are all sophomore and even 90%soph/10%junior JV teams. Carmel doesn't have enough freshmen to make up a freshmen team. So they have a JV team that is mostly freshmen. And your opinion is that it is good to see Carmel's JV team playing against much more experienced (and bigger) Gabilan JV teams? Aren't you advocating the same scheduling headaches for Carmel's JV team which trumps safety and what is best for the kids?
The PCAL is flawed, but Carmel should have been moved up. Period.
My point is you only cry about safety when it suits you and what you want.. You’re an A league school flat out. Personally, my guess is 3rd place with a split with the traditional top 4 teams. That probably means 7-3 depending on non league.. We should be going on and on and on with Norcalsportsfan about how they’ll stack up with Palma (also has seen #’s dip) and who’s developing better talent at their 7v7 league.
Honestly no more than 1-2% of Football Players will aquire CTE do to concussions, I’ve even contemplated naming my next child Tao.
Would you be up in arms the way you are right now if seaside would have stayed in Gabilan? I doubt it. While I think your points are valid. The system is flawed. You’re focusing your concern with Carmel. You should be pointing out that really the only A teams in this area year in and year out are Palma, Aptos, Salinas, Hollister. Anyone else despite enrollment or jv size really doesn’t belong in the same league. Carmel just happens to be the best team outside of that four and their consistency is proof. They will beat Alvarez, Gilroy and compete strong and probably beat Christopher. So based on the current structure their varsity program should be in Gabilan. If you want a jv program stop pulling so many freshmen and sophmores. If they did that from the start and cared about the jv program as much as being claimed right now Carmel most likely wouldn’t be in this position right now. They depleted their own jv roster and are now crying about it.
