PCAL Shuffle

[SpeedCity51]

They went 114-7 during the 90s. Went 36-0 and won 3 straight section titles from 90-92 (in 89 they tied north county in the section finals). Anyways very good teams in the early 2000s not trying to take away anything from them. Those were certainly some of the most talented teams they have had. Great defenses were the primary reason they were able to compete in D1.

06-07 was the one year when they implemented a pass first offense with Reader. I wouldn’t exactly say they weren’t successful in doing so. Peter Goodson was their OC at the time (he’s coached up majority of the top QBs this area has produced as of late including Mikey Turner from that 2012 seaside team). They ran Goodsons offense and the fly with the Fales brothers. Then Dalman came back and they went to a single back run game. Dalman had just come back from his coaching jobs with the Falcons and Stanford so no shocker they went with what he wanted to run.

I can understand your view point of ditching the fly offense being the reason they dropped off but I think there is way more to it than that. Costa stepping down in 99 was the first step (ask TKAs Coach Lovorato where he learned the fly from). It took a passing game to win those section titles in the early 2000s.

That 2012 Palma team was way overhyped especially by a certain poster lol. That was one of seasides best teams in a long time with the Turner brothers transferring over.

Yea, I mean it definitely seemed from an outsiders perspective that the two went hand in hand (getting away from, and later dropping the fly and their slight decline), but as with anything I’m sure there were other factors at play. Probably a little of my personal bias involved as well, as I thought the offense was pretty cool and was just in awe of how well they ran that thing. So when they got away from it I couldn’t help but think “that’s not Palma!”

And yea, that Seaside team was effing GOOD; The Turner bros were exactly what they needed to take them to another level that year. Still bummed that they lost in the CCS semifinals and missed out on a potential SBG. Think the Mason foster-Mike Avila team was better, but the 12 one was damn good.

 

[831ccschamp]

09 and 12 teams weren’t even close to 06 though.

I agree

Yea, I mean it definitely seemed from an outsiders perspective that the two went hand in hand (getting away from, and later dropping the fly and their slight decline), but as with anything I’m sure there were other factors at play. Probably a little of my personal bias involved as well, as I thought the offense was pretty cool and was just in awe of how well they ran that thing. So when they got away from it I couldn’t help but think “that’s not Palma!”

And yea, that Seaside team was effing GOOD; The Turner bros were exactly what they needed to take them to another level that year. Still bummed that they lost in the CCS semifinals and missed out on a potential SBG. Think the Mason foster-Mike Avila team was better, but the 12 one was damn good.

I think Saxton was the best QB seaside has had though.

 

[thehookup55]

I agree


I think Saxton was the best QB seaside has had though.

Seaside hasn’t really put out a strong list of QBs. Him and Turner were pretty close but I’d give the edge to Saxton. Guys like Carter and Foster were far better athletes than QBs.

 

[831ccschamp]

Seaside hasn’t really put out a strong list of QBs. Him and Turner were pretty close but I’d give the edge to Saxton. Guys like Carter and Foster were far better athletes than QBs.

Agreed, Saxton was strong going through his reads. Turner I think had a better arm and of course a legit deep threat in Ronnie his brother and a dangerous slot in Joseph jakubowski.

 

[thehookup55]

Agreed, Saxton was strong going through his reads. Turner I think had a better arm and of course a legit deep threat in Ronnie his brother and a dangerous slot in Joseph jakubowski.

Saxton was a far more efficient passer. He played with Jakubowski when he was a soph. Also had jovahn lualemana at RB. It’s too bad he broke his leg his senior year.

 

[831ccschamp]

Saxton was a far more efficient passer. He played with Jakubowski when he was a soph. Also had jovahn lualemana at RB. It’s too bad he broke his leg his senior year.

Yeah he was a huge lost I think they could have beat Sacred Heart Prep with him. Their defense wasn’t strong that year losing him at safety really hurt them.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

This reminds me of when Palma went away from the Fly after their best 4 year run in program history from 00-03 so they could “take the program to the next level”, or whatever the reasoning was. Well the opposite happened and they noticeably dropped off once they switched from the Fly to what they run now.

And yes Nor Cal, I know the enrollent dropped recently. But they fell off pretty much immediately after they switched the offense, before the enrollment declined significantly. And I’m not saying they don’t still have a good program, because they definitely do. It’s just not what it was from like 97-03

Not winning a championship is not immediately falling off. They were good enough to defeat teams like Cardinal Newman. I think the WCAL got a lot better was a big factor with the rest of the CCS pretty much dropped off competitively against the WCAL. Oak Grove (VC move impacted them alot), Los Gatos, Palo Alto also used to compete against the top WCAL teams. Palma success has been due to line play and defense and while the conservative offense (ball control) keep them in games or close, the rushing offense couldn't get them in a position to defeat DLS after some relatively close games. Defense is what kept them in those games or close. They were very competitive after they changed the offense up with exception of a special Oak Grove, Gilroy (Jensen years), and Hollister (always was a tough game) and Salinas team (maybe best with exception of team last year) and oif course Seaside with the Turner brothers. Palma lost many games because they didn't have the horses. Palma really dropped off when the numbers declined due to the recession and more recently when they increased tuition. They may have hit their lowest a year ago. I think the level of play dropped more due to enrollment and impact in depth and they have more cycles in talent, and add the better play of WCAL teams and you have more mismatches in games. This year, Palma is still a top 10 CCS team. Their league is pretty strong this year. Aptos has emerged as a very good program and Salinas has been getting a draw from many athletes that would normally play at Palma (Salinas is the 5th largest school in CCS). Hollister's issues the last few years its inability to defend the pass. Offensive change may have had some impact but look at Bellarmine...same offense and coaches and are down and dropped off pretty quickly. Much has to do with talent depth and that has been the culpret with Palma. Lack of depth in talent.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

They went 114-7 during the 90s. Went 36-0 and won 3 straight section titles from 90-92 (in 89 they tied north county in the section finals). Anyways very good teams in the early 2000s not trying to take away anything from them. Those were certainly some of the most talented teams they have had. Great defenses were the primary reason they were able to compete in D1.

06-07 was the one year when they implemented a pass first offense with Reader. I wouldn’t exactly say they weren’t successful in doing so. Peter Goodson was their OC at the time (he’s coached up majority of the top QBs this area has produced as of late including Mikey Turner from that 2012 seaside team). They ran Goodsons offense and the fly with the Fales brothers. Then Dalman came back and they went to a single back run game. Dalman had just come back from his coaching jobs with the Falcons and Stanford so no shocker they went with what he wanted to run.

I can understand your view point of ditching the fly offense being the reason they dropped off but I think there is way more to it than that. Costa stepping down in 99 was the first step (ask TKAs Coach Lovorato where he learned the fly from). It took a passing game to win those section titles in the early 2000s.

That 2012 Palma team was way overhyped especially by a certain poster lol. That was one of seasides best teams in a long time with the Turner brothers transferring over.

The 2012 team had a lot of talent. There were some issues going on with that team , but again you were right about a great Seaside team and that was one of SI's best teams in many years that ended up winning the CCS Open division. Remember when I told you QB Mitch Kidd had a shot at playing in college (D1). He had a tough year but did end up playing in college (not D1) and in the arena football league. I think on that team kicker Michael Carizosa, eventually ended up breaking all of San Jose State's punting records and was a Ray Guy award finalist, and signed with the Cleveland Browns as a place kicker. That Palma team had a lot of talent (their backup RB Marcus Washington was very good and a top sprinter in the section). They underperformed. They also had a couple linemen that played in college. The years that Dalman coached the lines were very good, but in fairness to the program (as much as I question the offensive play calling at times), you are correct in that the defense was what brought them championships. The three out of 4 years of D1 championships (2001-2004) were special years and now days they don't have enough headcount to develop the depth of talent needed to do it again given the level of play of the WCAL elite unless they get a few special classes and that is becoming fewer and fewer. If the current Salinas QB stayed at Palma after attending in junior high, I think next year might have had a shot at being a pretty special team, but even so they should be pretty good.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

I’m just gonna throw this out there I hate their offense or at least their stubbornness not to run any spread stuff. They have 60 kids on the roster. They have to have enough athletes to where at least when they are down a significant amount they have a chance to throw the ball and get athletes in space.

I agree about offense they run needs more variation and passing. They have a lot of speed at skill positions including QB and a couple underclassmen. Hollister's biggest problem is defense this year. They have flaw in pass defense and they have to stack things up to stop rushing attacks. Even Aptos has threat of pass and when they use it they gain huge yards. Hollister needs to be more like Aptos in that regard.

 

[SpeedCity51]

Not winning a championship is not immediately falling off. They were good enough to defeat teams like Cardinal Newman. I think the WCAL got a lot better was a big factor with the rest of the CCS pretty much dropped off competitively against the WCAL. Oak Grove (VC move impacted them alot), Los Gatos, Palo Alto also used to compete against the top WCAL teams. Palma success has been due to line play and defense and while the conservative offense (ball control) keep them in games or close, the rushing offense couldn't get them in a position to defeat DLS after some relatively close games. Defense is what kept them in those games or close. They were very competitive after they changed the offense up with exception of a special Oak Grove, Gilroy (Jensen years), and Hollister (always was a tough game) and Salinas team (maybe best with exception of team last year) and oif course Seaside with the Turner brothers. Palma lost many games because they didn't have the horses. Palma really dropped off when the numbers declined due to the recession and more recently when they increased tuition. They may have hit their lowest a year ago. I think the level of play dropped more due to enrollment and impact in depth and they have more cycles in talent, and add the better play of WCAL teams and you have more mismatches in games. This year, Palma is still a top 10 CCS team. Their league is pretty strong this year. Aptos has emerged as a very good program and Salinas has been getting a draw from many athletes that would normally play at Palma (Salinas is the 5th largest school in CCS). Hollister's issues the last few years its inability to defend the pass. Offensive change may have had some impact but look at Bellarmine...same offense and coaches and are down and dropped off pretty quickly. Much has to do with talent depth and that has been the culpret with Palma. Lack of depth in talent.

According to Hookup they opened up the offense in 2006. In the 10 years prior to that (96-05) they played for seven CCS championships (3 in D4, 3 in D1, and one open), winning 5 (2 D4 and 3 D1), and finishing the consensus number one team in CCS twice in 2001 and 2003. In the 12 years since opening up the offense they have played for two CCS titles, winning one.

I guess it’s just a coincidence.

 

[thehookup55]

According to Hookup they opened up the offense in 2006. In the 10 years prior to that (96-05) they played for seven CCS championships (3 in D4, 3 in D1, and one open), winning 5 (2 D4 and 3 D1), and finishing the consensus number one team in CCS twice in 2001 and 2003. In the 12 years since opening up the offense they have played for two CCS titles, winning one.

I guess it’s just a coincidence.

There is just wayyyyy more to it.

I will say this the fly offense you could pretty much run with any talent. It was less about skill and more about timing and precision. Of course they had their fair share of talented players with the fly which helped. When they started to implement other elements into their offense they had certain skill sets that allowed for it to be successful. They went multiple years with D1 QBs and had several skill position players that went on to be successful in JC/college. Once those guys left there was a major drop off in talent and they just couldn’t run the offense as well. They honestly should have gone back to the fly offense instead of being one dimensional with the single back run game. Richardson and Sargent are the only QBs since 09 that have been capable of producing a consistent passing game.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

There is just wayyyyy more to it.

I will say this the fly offense you could pretty much run with any talent. It was less about skill and more about timing and precision. Of course they had their fair share of talented players with the fly which helped. When they started to implement other elements into their offense they had certain skill sets that allowed for it to be successful. They went multiple years with D1 QBs and had several skill position players that went on to be successful in JC/college. Once those guys left there was a major drop off in talent and they just couldn’t run the offense as well. They honestly should have gone back to the fly offense instead of being one dimensional with the single back run game. Richardson and Sargent are the only QBs since 09 that have been capable of producing a consistent passing game.

Agree. 2006 they had Reader a college prospect (U of Idaho and later Arena league) who had the skill. 2007 Farrotte started and was more of the earlier Palma QB prototype...athletic, mobile and above average passer but not D1 player, and they went more conservative on offense, although backup David Fales (best Palma QB skill wise ever although I always liked Louis Amaral (safety at Davis) and Chad Bozo (who started at SJSU as a freshman until basically career ending injury although Chad probably would have been the best RB in the section speed, strength and skill wise) took over after Farrote season ending concussion. He ran a more conservative offense until they opened it up again but more conservative than the spread single back formation they run now. Palma has a ciouple other really good QBs in history but they opened it up more with Reader, Richardson and Sargent (even more so than when they had D. Fales now Miami Dolphins in his first season). There was a period of time they ran Fly and also passed the ball well. Unlike the single back they had deception with multiple potential runners. Makes one admire Emilio Martinez at RB more because 90 percent of the time defenses knew he was getting the ball. After D. Fales, as you mention Richardson came and they had another D1 QB .(although Austin Fales was a pretty good high school QB but they went back more conservative). I think going to single back hurt and this year with Sargent they are having more success with both run and pass, and seems they run a little Fly/Wing T. This year they have some very good skill players in a QB that could play on and has high upside but probably more in baseball, real speed at slot (Bering) and WR (Olivas) and RB (Villegas). I expect they will get back to more run next year and run more. Hopefully they will go back to more Fly or Wing T with deception and pass (like Granite Bay used to). Potential starters QB Amaral (yes same family- nephew of Louis) will have a few running threats and junior Brigantino has looked pretty good when I have seen him (however they lose a lot in passing with Sargent graduating). Line should be pretty good next year. They will have to run more. Next year the talent should be high with some depth. Only concern is reload at QB which is big. Again, I think the WCAL has gotten much more stronger and there were some very good years for some publics than Palma being not as good. Now definately there is a depth issue. Depth is becoming a greater issue when you are only fielding 40 players when you used to field 60+. It has been declining although I hear the school is starting to get back to being a little bigger.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

According to Hookup they opened up the offense in 2006. In the 10 years prior to that (96-05) they played for seven CCS championships (3 in D4, 3 in D1, and one open), winning 5 (2 D4 and 3 D1), and finishing the consensus number one team in CCS twice in 2001 and 2003. In the 12 years since opening up the offense they have played for two CCS titles, winning one.

I guess it’s just a coincidence.

As he mentioned it is more complex than that. I do agree that I liked the running game more as far as they used more options, but they have had some stud RBs in the single set. This year they are doing a little more, and expect them to change a little next year to more rushing offense as QB will not be the D1 passers or prolific passers that current one Sargent is or Reader in 2006 (Idaho), Fales (SJSU, Chicago Bears, Miami Dolphins), Richardson (Stanford) a couple years later. They elvove the offense some to fit the QBs. However next year they will pass as well since they have excellent skill players coming back but different type QB they have this year.

 

[SpeedCity51]

As he mentioned it is more complex than that. I do agree that I liked the running game more as far as they used more options, but they have had some stud RBs in the single set. This year they are doing a little more, and expect them to change a little next year to more rushing offense as QB will not be the D1 passers or prolific passers that current one Sargent is or Reader in 2006 (Idaho), Fales (SJSU, Chicago Bears, Miami Dolphins), Richardson (Stanford) a couple years later. They elvove the offense some to fit the QBs. However next year they will pass as well since they have excellent skill players coming back but different type QB they have this year.

I agree with you that the reason for the decline is more complex then just switching the offense. But I do feel that is one of, if not the biggest factor. Just my opinion though, of course.

And while I get opening the offense up to accommodate a good QB, I wonder how much it truly helps when you don’t have dynamic weapons for that QB to throw to. Does the offense really produce much more?

 

[SpeedCity51]

My sources are telling me there will be some angry people after the new Gabilan/Mission leagues are announced.

*watching eyes emoji*

 

[thehookup55]

My sources are telling me there will be some angry people after the new Gabilan/Mission leagues are announced.

*watching eyes emoji*

If Carmel doesn’t get moved up this will be the worst equity league around.

 

[Slamburger408]

If Carmel doesn’t get moved up this will be the worst equity league around.

It appears that this is the worst equity league around

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

It appears that this is the worst equity league around

The Gab as a league at the top at least is pretty strong. Arguably second top league in the section after the WCAL. It has fared well at the top against the PAL Bay, DeAnza and MHAL.

 

[Cal 14]

The Gab as a league at the top at least is pretty strong. Arguably second top league in the section after the WCAL. It has fared well at the top against the PAL Bay, DeAnza and MHAL.

I believe the sentiment was not in regards to the strength, but rather its functionality as an equity league. If the champion of the second division is not moved up to the top division the following year, then it's not functioning as an equity league.

Seriously, if Carmel is not moved up, they might as well disband this thing. Put Small School Folsom in with their baby seals and let the clubbing take place in their own league.

 

[SpeedCity51]

The Gab as a league at the top at least is pretty strong. Arguably second top league in the section after the WCAL. It has fared well at the top against the PAL Bay, DeAnza and MHAL.

I think He was taking about how a certain team is going to stay in the Mission despite clearly being the best team there while another Small school is stuck in the Gabilan despite struggling. Worst equity league as in it doesn’t seem to be based on equity.

 

[FormerD1Backer]

I believe the sentiment was not in regards to the strength, but rather its functionality as an equity league. If the champion of the second division is not moved up to the top division the following year, then it's not functioning as an equity league.

Seriously, if Carmel is not moved up, they might as well disband this thing. Put Small School Folsom in with their baby seals and let the clubbing take place in their own league.

Call it a Club instead of "League"??

 

[Slamburger408]

I think He was taking about how a certain team is going to stay in the Mission despite clearly being the best team there while another Small school is stuck in the Gabilan despite struggling. Worst equity league as in it doesn’t seem to be based on equity.

That was my point. I don’t disagree that the Gabilan is one of the toughest A Leagues. (Don’t get me started on the MHAL) But the equity amoung teams is out of whack Seaside going down is a good move but Gilroy will drown once again along with Alvarez. Both of which Carmel will be significantly better than. If Carmel is not moved up this year then there will never be a case to move up a Mission champion. They have their QB and mohrninweg returning. Who was responsible for a majority of the points scored. Not sure what the reasoning is behind all this but I think there are some good ol boy handshakes taking place behind closed doors.

 

[TheGoldenShower]

That was my point. I don’t disagree that the Gabilan is one of the toughest A Leagues. (Don’t get me started on the MHAL) But the equity amoung teams is out of whack Seaside going down is a good move but Gilroy will drown once again along with Alvarez. Both of which Carmel will be significantly better than. If Carmel is not moved up this year then there will never be a case to move up a Mission champion. They have their QB and mohrninweg returning. Who was responsible for a majority of the points scored. Not sure what the reasoning is behind all this but I think there are some good ol boy handshakes taking place behind closed doors.

Gilroy is going to get fed to the lions again. I wonder if they are keeping their pre-season game with Liberty.

 

[RLS13]

I believe the sentiment was not in regards to the strength, but rather its functionality as an equity league. If the champion of the second division is not moved up to the top division the following year, then it's not functioning as an equity league.

Seriously, if Carmel is not moved up, they might as well disband this thing. Put Small School Folsom in with their baby seals and let the clubbing take place in their own league.

Being a completely unofficial spokesman for RLS and the rest of the PCAL Santa Lucia Division, we would welcome Folsom in with open arms. I know they are no longer wanted in their league. With RLS, Marina, Harbor and Soquel/Santa Cruz (one of those will be in there) there is plenty of Seashore access to "baby seals"..

 

[SpeedCity51]

Gilroy is going to get fed to the lions again. I wonder if they are keeping their pre-season game with Liberty.

Gilroy? I have heard Seaside is staying up in the Gabilan. Is this incorrect?

 

[FormerD1Backer]

Gilroy? I have heard Seaside is staying up in the Gabilan. Is this incorrect?

Have next year's PCAL alignments been announced somewhere already, or is this just insider information?

 

[FormerD1Backer]

Being a completely unofficial spokesman for RLS and the rest of the PCAL Santa Lucia Division, we would welcome Folsom in with open arms. I know they are no longer wanted in their league. With RLS, Marina, Harbor and Soquel/Santa Cruz (one of those will be in there) there is plenty of Seashore access to "baby seals"..

And the winner of the "New & Improved" Santa Lucia Division gets an automatic bid to the Norcal Open Bowl Game against DLS each year! There... we solved one problem anyway.

 

[thehookup55]

Gilroy? I have heard Seaside is staying up in the Gabilan. Is this incorrect?

I heard Seaside as well. I didn’t hear any mention of Gilroy moving up.

 

[thehookup55]

I believe the sentiment was not in regards to the strength, but rather its functionality as an equity league. If the champion of the second division is not moved up to the top division the following year, then it's not functioning as an equity league.

Seriously, if Carmel is not moved up, they might as well disband this thing. Put Small School Folsom in with their baby seals and let the clubbing take place in their own league.

Exactly. I don’t think you can even call it an equity league anymore. My only guess which has been mentioned is it has something to do with Carmel not fielding freshman or large enough JV team to move up.

 

[colhenrylives]

The Gab as a league at the top at least is pretty strong. Arguably second top league in the section after the WCAL. It has fared well at the top against the PAL Bay, DeAnza and MHAL.

Hard to argue. Palma beat M-A. With the PAL Bay down a bit from 2018 (Aragon in particular), the PCAL-Gabilan is probably better in 2018.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

I believe the sentiment was not in regards to the strength, but rather its functionality as an equity league. If the champion of the second division is not moved up to the top division the following year, then it's not functioning as an equity league.

Seriously, if Carmel is not moved up, they might as well disband this thing. Put Small School Folsom in with their baby seals and let the clubbing take place in their own league.

Agree with you and others that Carmel should be forced to play in Gab especially with results this year and what they return. No reason to have equity league otherwise.

 

[SpeedCity51]

Exactly. I don’t think you can even call it an equity league anymore. My only guess which has been mentioned is it has something to do with Carmel not fielding freshman or large enough JV team to move up.

I think it is a 3 division equity league (Mission, Cypress, Santa Lucia) with a top league where they use a bunch of subjective nonsense to decide who gets fed to the wolves. Ridiculous IMO. It should be cut and dry; win your league, move up, finish last, move down.

 

[Slamburger408]

Bottom line is, over the years there has constantly been a fluctuation between Seaside being a Gabilan and Pacific team. The year they are pitted to go down, no one goes up? Even if it is a team that is worthy of playing in the Gab? If there was a Mission team even close to Carmel’s stature I would suggest them, but there isn’t. Golden Anderson has done a deal with the devil and some day it will catch up to him.

 

[FormerD1Backer]

Bottom line is, over the years there has constantly been a fluctuation between Seaside being a Gabilan and Pacific team. The year they are pitted to go down, no one goes up? Even if it is a team that is worthy of playing in the Gab? If there was a Mission team even close to Carmel’s stature I would suggest them, but there isn’t. Golden Anderson has done a deal with the devil and some day it will catch up to him.

Deal with the Devil? Wow... a bit over the top maybe?

I agree that if anyone should be bumped up it’s Carmel. But where is everyone getting their information here? Has there been some announcement somewhere or is this just conjecture?

And who exactly is the devil we’re talking about here? Didn’t know he was a HS football fan!

 

[FormerD1Backer]

One minute somebody is clubbing baby seals and the next they are cutting deals with Satan. Serious stuff

 

[Slamburger408]

Deal with the devil meaning, somehow Carmel got away with going undeafeated (and a possible DV championship) in a B league and not go up to the Gab. What is the difference between Seaside and them? You tell me. My point is something fishy is going on in the peninsula and that is not a coastal pun.

 

[SpeedCity51]

Deal with the Devil? Wow... a bit over the top maybe?

I agree that if anyone should be bumped up it’s Carmel. But where is everyone getting their information here? Has there been some announcement somewhere or is this just conjecture?

And who exactly is the devil we’re talking about here? Didn’t know he was a HS football fan!

I believe the leagues have been set, just not announced publicly.

 

[FormerD1Backer]

I believe the leagues have been set, just not announced publicly.

Sounds like everyone knows the result if that meeting but me...

 

[Slamburger408]

This is what I’ve heard. Seaside down. Monterey up. Gonzales and Soquel up.

 

[thehookup55]

Deal with the Devil? Wow... a bit over the top maybe?

I agree that if anyone should be bumped up it’s Carmel. But where is everyone getting their information here? Has there been some announcement somewhere or is this just conjecture?

And who exactly is the devil we’re talking about here? Didn’t know he was a HS football fan!

I think we found the person that is mad about it.