Pinewood

[mkbgdns]

just watched Pinewood/Salesian Jamboree Final. very evenly matched, 1-point margin at 1:00 mark, 9-0 Pinewood finish, mostly free throws, created misleading final score.

since my daughter played AAU ball with Daniela Roark in 2001, Pinewood's been on my radar. We are fortunate that they've had several intrepid videographers who've produced and published on YouTube lots of their games. they don't just shoot the 3, but run a clinic on fundamentals of defense and rebounding, often against bigger foes. thanks to those Pinewood camera people.

 

[becoolpt55]

100% wrong.... the core of the program is 3 pt shooting...you are who you are...
Pinewood needs to shoot at least 30 pt shots to win against teams like Mitty
and Winward...don't let anything else fool you...keep shooting threes...and you just might win state...now they might have an off day any then they will lose against Mitty

 

[LBJ6]

100% wrong.... the core of the program is 3 pt shooting...you are who you are...
Pinewood needs to shoot at least 30 pt shots to win against teams like Mitty
and Winward...don't let anything else fool you...keep shooting threes...and you just might win state...now they might have an off day any then they will lose against Mitty

What is he wrong about? Every thing he said was 100 % accurate.

 

[Pbacoach]

Absolutely love Doc! But his offense is predicated off the 3. That’s ok it works!!

 

[colhenrylives]

But sometimes it doesn't. And then there are problems if the opposition is quality.

 

[Sjbasket]

Absolutely love Doc! But his offense is predicated off the 3. That’s ok it works!!

Let’s keep this in perspective. I think Doc is a great developer of shooters and solid ball movement to create open looks for an array of shooters. It is true that there are many teams that are bigger and more athletic than Pinewood. The difference is most of the teams aren’t as fundamentally sound and disciplined as Pinewood and can be beat. The only team in the last three years that has had the athletes and fundamental capability to shut down pinewood has been Mitty. It took 3 overtimes, Jones fouling out and Mitty starting center torn ACL for pinewood to win. Not meaning to take away anything from Pinewood young ladies. They play a great game and deserve tons accolades. I think Mitty had the right formula in the past, not so sure they have it now. We will see come late Feb or early March

 

[Paytc]

Absolutely love Doc! But his offense is predicated off the 3. That’s ok it works!!

I agree for the most part. But I was very impressed how gutsy the small Pinewood guards were attacking the basket against Salesian. And I think the fact that they find a way to win is often lost in the shine of their often suburb 3 point shooting. As sjbasket just mentioned, Pinewood simply put is a fundamentally sound and discipline team on both sides of the ball. And like Mitty always fun teams to watch for those who like good sound fundamental unselfish basketball. I think both brands make the two programs hard to beat. Especially if your not playing similar sound and unselfish basketball.

 

[mkbgdns]

funny, my point was about their over performing defense and rebounding. as a MM fan, you don't have to sell me on an offense that features the 3 with its ups and downs. for me, their defense and rebounding feature their fundamental soundness and discipline. it's hard, blue collar work, particularly if you're smaller. the 3 is Silicon Valley. D&R is, well, the custodial staff at Google.

 

[Winning Is Fun]

Without Jovanovic this season Pinewood has NO chance against Mitty. You need a great ball handler to get through that Mitty press. Claros won the game for them last season. She killed mitty with her quickness and skill set.

 

[CityBoy415]

Without Jovanovic this season Pinewood has NO chance against Mitty. You need a great ball handler to get through that Mitty press. Claros won the game for them last season. She killed mitty with her quickness and skill set.

No chance? Why do we play the game then lol. Pinewood had no chance last year against Mitty or the year before against SMS. If it's one thing I learned against the top tier coaches and teams is that nobody should be counted out.

 

[Winning Is Fun]

No chance? Why do we play the game then lol. Pinewood had no chance last year against Mitty or the year before against SMS. If it's one thing I learned against the top tier coaches and teams is that nobody should be counted out.

Last year they definitely had a chance with Mitty's center being out for the year and with Claros. Jovanovic is Pinewood's best ball handler.

Mitty will win easily. But you are right, there's always a chance.

 

[CityBoy415]

Last year they definitely had a chance with Mitty's center being out for the year and with Claros. Jovanovic is Pinewood's best ball handler.

Mitty will win easily. But you are right, there's always a chance.

Easily? Man that's a bold statement. Ever since Pinewood went on the road and beat SMS when they were #1 in the nation and Mitty #1 in the nation I can't count them out. It's not like Pinewood isn't winning games. If they were losing I can see your argument. What ever they are doing with the guards they have has been working so far. It's going to be a great game. Mitty's supporting cast will have to show up and play well for them to win.

 

[Winning Is Fun]

Easily? Man that's a bold statement. Ever since Pinewood went on the road and beat SMS when they were #1 in the nation and Mitty #1 in the nation I can't count them out. It's not like Pinewood isn't winning games. If they were losing I can see your argument. What ever they are doing with the guards they have has been working so far. It's going to be a great game. Mitty's supporting cast will have to show up and play well for them to win.

What can I say. I like putting myself out there! The way Pinewood shoots they can beat anyone at anytime, except for mitty this year without Jovanovic.

 

[CityBoy415]

What can I say. I like putting myself out there! The way Pinewood shoots they can beat anyone at anytime, except for mitty this year without Jovanovic.

lmao aight I get it now. logic is out the window when it comes to your team.

 

[straightline50]

lmao aight I get it now. logic is out the window when it comes to your team.

Always does.

 

[Paytc]

Easily? Man that's a bold statement. Ever since Pinewood went on the road and beat SMS when they were #1 in the nation and Mitty #1 in the nation I can't count them out. It's not like Pinewood isn't winning games. If they were losing I can see your argument. What ever they are doing with the guards they have has been working so far. It's going to be a great game. Mitty's supporting cast will have to show up and play well for them to win.

Didn't the two teams Mitty and Pinewood go to triple over time that last game they played? Obviously we all could be wrong and we all have been wrong before. But I'll go out on a limb and say whoever wins it won't be easy. And most likely it will be close.

 

[OnBall8]

Didn't the two teams Mitty and Pinewood go to triple over time that last game they played? Obviously we all could be wrong and we all have been wrong before. But I'll go out on a limb and say whoever wins it won't be easy. And most likely it will be close.

Last one was triple OT but the 3 before were 19, 8 and 14 pt wins by mitty. And the 8 wasn't a close 8 down the stretch. So I would have to agree with sjbasket, they have the formula to win. Now does that guarantee you are going to win? of course not, we all know that. If mitty happens to win convincingly this year (not my prediction...yet) then it makes the 3OT game seem even flukier..

 

[Paytc]

Last one was triple OT but the 3 before were 19, 8 and 14 pt wins by mitty. And the 8 wasn't a close 8 down the stretch. So I would have to agree with sjbasket, they have the formula to win. Now does that guarantee you are going to win? of course not, we all know that. If mitty happens to win convincingly this year (not my prediction...yet) then it makes the 3OT game seem even flukier..

Good points.....

I also agreed with sjbasket's comment. It was Winning is Fun's prediction that "Mitty would win easily" that I agreed with cityboy415 that we don't think either team will win the game easily. But hey, you never know. And I don't think it's a bad thing to be optimistic in rooting for your team. But I will say Mitty has been propped up the past 3 or 4 (possibly more years) and never seems to get the chance to kind of sneak up on teams without carrying the pressure and expectations that they're the top team in the Bay if not the country. Great to set a high bar and have lofty standards. But some times carrying the chip as the under dog can add less pressure and more motivation. This year Mitty is in the eyes of many a sort of under dog. Pinewood is ranked higher and has more pressure to stay there. So who knows which Stanford bound star player will win head to head. And who knows who will host the Norcal championship trophy? Pinewood and Mitty at this point are probably the favorites. Both are in excellent programs and are well coached. But then of course teams like Salesian, Clet, MM, Heritage, Sacramento, Folsom, SMS, SHC,Bear Creek, SJND, Mc Clatchy, Odowd, Antelope, SRV, Cal, etc.... could all have great endings in their last game of the season. It looks like the makings for a fun March.Hopefully all stay and/or get healthy.

 

[Paytc]

Without Jovanovic this season Pinewood has NO chance against Mitty. You need a great ball handler to get through that Mitty press. Claros won the game for them last season. She killed mitty with her quickness and skill set.

Winning is Fun,

I am unaware who Jovanovic is. But it sounds like she is supposed to be Bri Claros's replacement at point for Pinewood? If so it sounds like she either transferred out or is out injured. Please help me get up to speed on the significance this player has with regard to Pinewood's ball handling. Did she play in the Pinewood vs Salesian game? Let me know your thoughts so I can better consider them. Thanks

 

[OnBall8]

If so it sounds like she either transferred out or is out injured

Injured. I believe its another blown knee for that program. Happened a week or so ago, not sure of the game it happened in.

 

[Paytc]

Injured. I believe its another blown knee for that program. Happened a week or so ago, not sure of the game it happened in.

Thanks OnBall8 for the reply.

Injuries absolutely suck ! If she didn't play in the Pinewood vs Salesian game I think Pinewood still has a player or two capable of handling the ball. But no doubt losing Bri Claros wasn't a small deal for Pinewood. But they didn't miss much of a beat in the Salesian and Sacramento games I watched. That is why if she was gone before those games it isn't as significant as if she actually played in that tournament. Because that tournament Pinewood team is pretty good if still healthy.

If the Pinewood team that won the WCJ Platinum level is still healthy, I think they will be alright. If not then Winning is Fun's prediction may make a little more sense. But even so a Pinewood blowout seems a bit of a stretch. Tonight Pinewood will get a test from Clet. We will see what they have in several hours.

Is Pinewood's pg out for the season?
Is Nia Chinn out for the season?
SMS has a player out for the season and others injured. Hopefully Oliver returns soon and is at full or close to full strength when she does.
I noticed SJND had a double digit loss to Mater Dei. Is their key player(s) out for the season?
Is Holland back for Odowd? Who else is dealing with injuries?

Injuries can have a larger impact on a team especially when they happen kind of late in a season ( as in Mitty's case last season) because it takes time to re-gel.

 

[OnBall8]

Looks like it happened in the St Francis game which was before the WCJ. This is based off a post to this forum, no inside information or anything, so take it for what it's worth. I do not know the actual prognosis, I just heard rumors of an ACL.

 

[Paytc]

Looks like it happened in the St Francis game which was before the WCJ. This is based off a post to this forum, no inside information or anything, so take it for what it's worth. I do not know the actual prognosis, I just heard rumors of an ACL.

OnBall8,

Thanks again for the research and reply. Hopefully all injured players have fast and full recoveries. If that is true Pinewood is still plugging in capable players and has time ( and test like Clet and Salesian coming up) to get players and the team ready. They're probably not as solid at PG this season as last. But Mitty loss a lot of size and experience which kind of offsets one another. I'm sure Ortiz's absence this season among a few others will be gladly welcomed by Pinewood, Clet, Salesian and everyone else. Good teams just find a way to still play well as a unit. That's why it's hard for folks that really know basketball to watch bad basketball. And why it is such a pleasure to watch good sound fundamental unselfish team basketball. Both Pinewood and Mitty often display it best.

 

[stepslide]

Mitty lost to Pinewood last year because of Blakes injury and some phantom calls against Jones. BUT, also because Mitty's coaching staff failed to take advantage of their advantages, which was their superior size and athleticism as well as game plan. Not sure Pinewood can beat any of the top teams if Jump is face guarded at all times. Mitty has the depth and personnel to do that. I don't think they have enough consistent scoring options other than Astrom if you limit Jump's touches. Also as a side strategy, you have to make Jump defend not only to get her in foul trouble, but also to wear on her offensively. With Mitty's 2 transfers who are 6 footers with mobility they have the depth to make that happen with someone other than Jones. No one on Pinewood can stop Jones 1 on 1 in the post or mid post. This leaves Hernandez and McNicholas as well as new transfer from Eastside Prep who can score inside and out. I would think if Mitty does what they should and that is attack inside out and pound the O and D boards that it will be very difficult for Pinewood to sustain for 4 qtrs. UNLESS they hit 15 threes which they are capable of doing. I think everyone is looking forward to seeing another Pinewood v Mitty matchup. I believe Mitty now has six kids 6 feet or taller, the x factor for both teams is their lack of a true Point Guard. It might matter more for Mitty in their system than in Pinewood's dribble drive system where a true PG is less important.

 

[OnBall8]

But Mitty loss a lot of size and experience which kind of offsets one another

Experience? yes, without a doubt.

Size? No. They are bigger than last year for sure. Lost one big to grad, gained 2 from transfer, one from JV and a couple seniors that will probably see more time this year (presumably)

 

[Paytc]

Experience? yes, without a doubt.

Size? No. They are bigger than last year for sure. Lost one big to grad, gained 2 from transfer, one from JV and a couple seniors that will probably see more time this year (presumably)

Ortiz offered that big point guard option and a very sound decision making ball handler. When Sue used Jones and Ortiz to bring the ball up together that was impressive.

Another key will be both teams staying healthy. Injuries can happen unfortunately. Thanks goes out to both you and step slide for your insight and perspectives. They help me re-consider my thoughts with better insight. I had heard Mitty had transfers. And they do all seem to be playing well together. Yet it's hard to simulate an opponent like Mitty or Pinewood without actually playing them. So both teams will have to adjust to playing in a game of the season probably for both teams. And how the game is called will have an impact. Because both teams are only allowed to put 5 players on the floor at a time. Depth matters more when key players get into foul trouble or inured. Not as much when they all get to play. Both Mitty and Pinewood stars are young and healthy enough to play just about the whole game. Especially with strategic times outs called for rest. Best case is for both teams to win and lose with their best combination of players on the floor. When the players, not the refs or the coaches, decide which team is better. It should be a good game. Foul shots especially down the stretch may also be big.

Mitty has Clet, Salesian,SHC twice, SJND and a few others that won't be easy to help them better prepare. Pinewood has Clet, Salesian and ESCP to help get them ready.

 

[TheHillZ]

Looks like it happened in the St Francis game which was before the WCJ. This is based off a post to this forum, no inside information or anything, so take it for what it's worth. I do not know the actual prognosis, I just heard rumors of an ACL.

Jovanovic was not Pinewood's starting PG, but was/is a fierce athletic defender with a solid handle, and was on the floor at the end of many games. She hurt her knee landing awkwardly during the St. Francis game and hasn't played since. I don't want to speculate about the extent of the injury, but I would be surprised to see her play again this year.

 

[Winning Is Fun]

Jovanovic was not Pinewood's starting PG, but was/is a fierce athletic defender with a solid handle, and was on the floor at the end of many games. She hurt her knee landing awkwardly during the St. Francis game and hasn't played since. I don't want to speculate about the extent of the injury, but I would be surprised to see her play again this year.

Sorry for late response. Torn acl. Will go under the knife in a few weeks. Out for a good 9 months. Good kid. Feel for her. Anybody know how many torn acl's happen at pinewood? The Doc bunny hop must have some sort of correlation. I know of 4: claros, poindexter-mchan, kruep, and jovanovic.

 

[observer22]

Sorry for late response. Torn acl. Will go under the knife in a few weeks. Out for a good 9 months. Good kid. Feel for her. Anybody know how many torn acl's happen at pinewood? The Doc bunny hop must have some sort of correlation. I know of 4: claros, poindexter-mchan, kruep, and jovanovic.

It’s a problem throughout all of girls basketball. Other than Doc’s teams playing hard, I highly doubt there’s any correlation.

 

[OnBall8]

It’s a problem throughout all of girls basketball. Other than Doc’s teams playing hard, I highly doubt there’s any correlation.

It's gone down fairly drastically with the advancements in biomechanics and increased knowledge of strength training. I've said it for years now, if you aren't doing things to specifically guard against ACL's in the weight room, you are doing a disservice to the kids. As of the last time I heard, PW is one of the major programs with no strength and conditioning programs but they are not the only ones. And that info could be outdated at that.

 

[northbaybbguru]

PW returns 4 starters off last yrs team....Mitty not nearly as good as they have been over the last 2 yrs. Mitty does have the best player though but they are relying on youngsters against a battle hardened veteran PW squad...PW absolutely has a chance and will go in as the top seed in the CCS OPEN...to say NO chance is ridiculous

 

[Paytc]

PW returns 4 starters off last yrs team....Mitty not nearly as good as they have been over the last 2 yrs. Mitty does have the best player though but they are relying on youngsters against a battle hardened veteran PW squad...PW absolutely has a chance and will go in as the top seed in the CCS OPEN...to say NO chance is ridiculous

northbaybbguru,

Many good points. However even though I agree Mitty may not be as good as last year they are still good enough to beat any team in Norcal. Not because they are so great. Because even the (at the moment) best Pinewood is not unbeatable. All the top 3 or 4 IMO can beat one another. Probably Pinewood and Mitty have slight edge over the field. When you add up coaching, big game experience, and players. So it should be interesting. Tip off for Pinewood and Clet is less than an hour away.

 

[Winning Is Fun]

PW returns 4 starters off last yrs team....Mitty not nearly as good as they have been over the last 2 yrs. Mitty does have the best player though but they are relying on youngsters against a battle hardened veteran PW squad...PW absolutely has a chance and will go in as the top seed in the CCS OPEN...to say NO chance is ridiculous

I am taking any and all bets. Mitty will beat them. Twice. Once in open and in norcal if they both get there. GUARANTEED.

You can talk about strategy, experience, and 3 point shooting till your blue in the face. Mitty has bigger horses and the no. 1 player in the country. They will have their way with them this year.

 

[Paytc]

I am taking any and all bets. Mitty will beat them. Twice. Once in open and in norcal if they both get there. GUARANTEED.

You can talk about strategy, experience, and 3 point shooting till your blue in the face. Mitty has bigger horses and the no. 1 player in the country. They will have their way with them this year.

Well Im not sure how Mitty and Pinewood will turn out. But Clet proved ( what many already knew) Pinewood and any other good team can be beat by another good team. So Winning is Fun your guarantee sounds a lot better than it did 5 hours ago. But based on the schedule of games each of the top 3 or 4 teams play Mitty, Clet, Pinewood , and Salesian, we'll have to wait to see the outcomes. Because Clet upset Pinewood. Proving that any good and well coached team can beat any other good team. Kind of as we said just before tip off. Pinewood was not unbeatable. No team in high school basketball is unbeatable.

 

[stepslide]

Agree with winning is fun 100%. Go watch both teams play. Unless Jones doesn't play no one is beating mitty in the Bay Area this season. Too big, too deep, inside and out.
Jones plays like the #1 player in the country. The hype is real.

 

[ClayK]

I think there are a lot of good teams in Northern California, but no great one. In that case, the default mode is that the team with the best player should be the favorite -- and Haley Jones is clearly the best player. Thus, Mitty is the favorite ...

Oddly, though, Mitty has played a weak schedule, and has a 24-point loss to Grandview, which is 9-3 and might be the third-best team in Colorado. The loss to Southridge, which lost to an ordinary Oregon team (Tigard), is also an indication that Mitty isn't at the same level as in the past.

And of course, the problem with relying on one player as the key factor is that it makes a team vulnerable to injury or shaky officiating.

 

[becoolpt55]

3 for 21...Jump didn't make a three until the 4th....Morris spent 3 days
drilling on how you defend the spaces on the court PW...aka Jump shoots her 3s... interesting last t comment by Morris...on the drives to the basket he wasn't going to help....he was willing to give up a layup rather than gamble that PW was going to shoot a 3...It worked last night...obviously

From the Merc...this morning...

Pinewood coach Doc Scheppler said his team got the shots it wanted but could not hit them, a trend that started before Wednesday.

“Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want,” Scheppler said. “We want to win. We didn’t get it. What experience did you gain by playing in that situation? You’re going to get it by realizing you’re not going to win games when you shoot 3 of 21. We’re such a great shooting team, and we’re not showing that.”

Carondelet coach Michael Morris, in his first season, said his team spent three days putting together a scheme for Pinewood and the players followed it perfectly.

“We kind of went against what our natural principles are — help defense,” he said. “You saw tonight there were a lot of straight drives. We weren’t going to help because if you help and they kick, that’s how they kill you. We were like, ‘We’ll trade 2s for 3s.’ They didn’t make too many 3s tonight.”

 

[OnBall8]

I think there are a lot of good teams in Northern California, but no great one. In that case, the default mode is that the team with the best player should be the favorite -- and Haley Jones is clearly the best player. Thus, Mitty is the favorite ...

Oddly, though, Mitty has played a weak schedule, and has a 24-point loss to Grandview, which is 9-3 and might be the third-best team in Colorado. The loss to Southridge, which lost to an ordinary Oregon team (Tigard), is also an indication that Mitty isn't at the same level as in the past.

And of course, the problem with relying on one player as the key factor is that it makes a team vulnerable to injury or shaky officiating.

Clay.. they lost to grandview by 4... how can you mess up facts that badly?

While I am not on the level of making any guarantees... I have to say they are a lot more than just haley jones. I don't know that you have seen them play this year. I just got out to my first game recently and while HJ was definitely the star, there are pieces around her. For those that said this was AM's last chance at an open title and the cupboard was going to be a little more empty are very mistaken.

 

[OnBall8]

3 for 21...Jump didn't make a three until the 4th....Morris spent 3 days
drilling on how you defend the spaces on the court PW...aka Jump shoots her 3s... end of that story

From the Merc...this morning...

Pinewood coach Doc Scheppler said his team got the shots it wanted but could not hit them, a trend that started before Wednesday.

“Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want,” Scheppler said. “We want to win. We didn’t get it. What experience did you gain by playing in that situation? You’re going to get it by realizing you’re not going to win games when you shoot 3 of 21. We’re such a great shooting team, and we’re not showing that.”

Carondelet coach Michael Morris, in his first season, said his team spent three days putting together a scheme for Pinewood and the players followed it perfectly.

Like others posted, its not rocket science to create a defensive scheme. Its a gimmick offense that they are very good at running. The trouble is they are very good at running it.

 

[personalogic]

3 for 21...Jump didn't make a three until the 4th....Morris spent 3 days
drilling on how you defend the spaces on the court PW...aka Jump shoots her 3s... end of that story

From the Merc...this morning...

Pinewood coach Doc Scheppler said his team got the shots it wanted but could not hit them, a trend that started before Wednesday.

“Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want,” Scheppler said. “We want to win. We didn’t get it. What experience did you gain by playing in that situation? You’re going to get it by realizing you’re not going to win games when you shoot 3 of 21. We’re such a great shooting team, and we’re not showing that.”

Carondelet coach Michael Morris, in his first season, said his team spent three days putting together a scheme for Pinewood and the players followed it perfectly.

3 for 21...Jump didn't make a three until the 4th....Morris spent 3 days
drilling on how you defend the spaces on the court PW...aka Jump shoots her 3s... end of that story

From the Merc...this morning...

Pinewood coach Doc Scheppler said his team got the shots it wanted but could not hit them, a trend that started before Wednesday.

“Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want,” Scheppler said. “We want to win. We didn’t get it. What experience did you gain by playing in that situation? You’re going to get it by realizing you’re not going to win games when you shoot 3 of 21. We’re such a great shooting team, and we’re not showing that.”

Carondelet coach Michael Morris, in his first season, said his team spent three days putting together a scheme for Pinewood and the players followed it perfectly.

I have always thought the C-let gym is tough on outside shooting teams who aren't used to it. The stage/curtain background may have stymied PW in the first half.

Whatever the reason, once a bunch of shots had been missed it seemed like PW kind of lost their composure. Took some bad shots, missed some easy ones. No plan B.

I was thinking during the first half that PW should commit to full court pressure. C-let is not overloaded with ball handlers. PW waited too long before making the adjustment. Understandable maybe - you always hope your shooters are going to shake it off.

Live by the three, die by the three.