Recruiting?

[Peninsula Pete]

In the thread on Competitive Equity, the term “recruiting” was thrown around rather loosely. Maybe worth defining terms.

First to register two givens; (1) some degree of recruiting occurs in both private and public school settings, and (2) private schools have a built in advantage of being able to enroll kids from anywhere geographically.

To the point: Below is a range of what I think happens at the high school level that people define as recruiting. The scale of 1 to 5 begins with extremely passive behavior and runs on up through what are extreme cases of obvious unscrupulous recruiting.

1: A program is either in a desired area or perhaps has been successful with a respected good coach and so, with no communication between the program and a middle schooler or transfer, the player decides to enroll and play in that program.

2. The HS coach runs an AAU program that exposes players to their HS system. They do not persuade individuals, but rather simply advertises open tryouts.

3. Coach communicates through an intermediary (or directly) to a middle school player or family that they hope the player will attend their high school.

4. Coach communicates through an intermediary (or directly) to a high school player enrolled elsewhere that they would like the player to transfer to their high school.

5-10: Coach bad talks rival programs, promises things at their program, incentivizes players to attend their school, waives tuition, provides transportation, provides living arrangements.

In my opinion, numbers 1 and 2 are not recruiting. Number 3 gets close. Numbers 4 and 5+ are recruiting. The term recruiting is often thrown around when a certain program has a period of long term success. “Oh, their success makes sense because they recruit”. But the term can mean a variety of things; some innocent, some nefarious. Thoughts?

 

[ClayK]

A good summary. I think that a high school coach saying to a middle school player or parent "We'd love to have you play for us" shouldn't be a violation.

I feel differently about a player already at a school, but then again, if a family decides a different school is a better situation for a player on my team -- even if the player was reached out to -- I'm not going to stand in their way, or really, even be that upset. If somebody doesn't want to play for me, then it's probably best that they move on.

And again, a college scholarship is worth a quarter of a million dollars, and it's hard for me to say to any family "No, you shouldn't optimize your chances to get a scholarship." And by the same token, if a child is in a bad school district and gets a chance to attend a private school with better education for free, who am I to say no?

In the end, I think it's about the relative advantage of the opportunity versus the present situation, and I think that's up to the family to decide. I don't think some people sitting behind desks in a section office who have a nice salary and benefits' package should be telling a family, directly or indirectly, you can't get free tuition or give your child the best chance to get a full or partial scholarship.

 

[Peninsula Pete]

Thanks for that summary Clay. Most people probably agree that when a program recruits a player already enrolled elsewhere, that is for sure dirty pool. But is it more than that? Is there a set of rules about high school recruiting somewhere that such "poaching" violates and can be punishable? Or do you simply suffer social scorn?

 

[ClayK]

There are a lot of rules, all of them randomly enforced. Section commissioners will decide if there's "undue influence" based on well, not much.

For example, I had a player who played for another high school's head coach who coached her club team, and knew the players at the school. She transferred as a sophomore to the new school without penalty.

Another player played on a club team that was run by but not coached by the head coach. She had originally enrolled at the new school as a freshman but COVID made her wait a year. She was forced to sit out an entire season.

And of course if you lawyer up, the sections will fold immediately.

Bottom line: If you're rich enough and understand the system well enough, you can go where you want at any point in your career. If you're not, then it's a toss of the coin.

The rules, such as they are, exist, but their enforcement varies so much that they might as well not be there.

 

[Peninsula Pete]

The rules in place all seem to focus on potentially punishing the kid who opted to transfer. I was asking about any rules set up that may punish the coach. As far as I can tell, there is nothing other than their moral compass or public perception that keeps a coach from the more egregious forms of recruiting such as pursuing a player enrolled in another program. Good programs and coaches don't need a rule book to make a conscious decision to not do that. Bad ones do it and need a set of do and don't rules about recruiting and I don't know if that exists.

 

[ankleassassin]

texas has a rule


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP84RNsPjlo

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/f...basketball-coach-heads-to-uil-hearing/217184/

washington does too

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ead-coach-suspended-over-improper-recruiting/

couldnt find anything in california but i did see that if you throw a shoe you will be suspended

https://usatodayhss.com/2024/califo...-suspended-6-games-for-shoe-throwing-incident

 

[iamgearyblvd]

texas has a rule


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP84RNsPjlo

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/f...basketball-coach-heads-to-uil-hearing/217184/

washington does too

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ead-coach-suspended-over-improper-recruiting/

couldnt find anything in california but i did see that if you throw a shoe you will be suspended

https://usatodayhss.com/2024/califo...-suspended-6-games-for-shoe-throwing-incident

Say it aint so!!! You mean there are dudes out there trying to form super teams? I thought that only happens in the pros!

 

[Moist and Plump]

Recruiting is against the rules and 510 violations are met with very harsh penalties. Contrary to popular belief, high schools in NorCal don't recruit. Full stop.

 

[ClayK]

As always, athletic organizations punish the athletes first and only occasionally the coaches.

It is ridiculous that a young person should be denied the opportunity to play while the coach and athletic director who made it happen continue in their roles. But of course if adults were punished in the erratic fashion that students are, the sections would be in court on a regular basis.

 

[ClayK]

Recruiting is against the rules and 510 violations are met with very harsh penalties. Contrary to popular belief, high schools in NorCal don't recruit. Full stop.

Humor is always appreciated.

 

[carsonjrt]

1: A program is either in a desired area or perhaps has been successful with a respected good coach and so, with no communication between the program and a middle schooler or transfer, the player decides to enroll and play in that program.

2. The HS coach runs an AAU program that exposes players to their HS system. They do not persuade individuals, but rather simply advertises open tryouts.

3. Coach communicates through an intermediary (or directly) to a middle school player or family that they hope the player will attend their high school.

4. Coach communicates through an intermediary (or directly) to a high school player enrolled elsewhere that they would like the player to transfer to their high school.

5-10: Coach bad talks rival programs, promises things at their program, incentivizes players to attend their school, waives tuition, provides transportation, provides living arrangements.

I definitely agree that #1-#3 is not "illegal" recruiting. #3 to me is 100% fair game, no different than private schools placing an ad in the local paper promoting their school's success in STEM or the arts to get families to consider enrolling.

 

[510sportsfan]

If a private school (or public, but thats not happening) incentivizes a student monetarily in any way, whether they are coming from 8th grade or another high school, I would consider that to be illegal recruiting. Other than that, anyone should get one shot to transfer during high school and should be able to attend whatever school they want beginning in 9th grade.

Personally, I find it hard to believe parents are willing to pay 100k or more to send their kid to school for 4 years while chasing a scholarship that is likely to be a fraction of that (pretty likely zero for most of the population) , but I think we all know as a society we are not very good at math and financial responsibility

 

[ClayK]

There are other advantages to private schools, especially in areas where the public schools are average or below educationally.

 

[510sportsfan]

I think that is the sales pitch private schools love to sell. I think the question parents have to answer is if the investment of 100k+ is worth the return. Personally, I believe 99 times out of 100 its not and that one would get to the same place in life whether attending public school or private school. Especially in the Bay Area, public schools are typically more diverse (resulting in better social skills) and most of them provide comparable or better education than any private school in the area. And if my kid were lined up to attend a horrible public school, then I would find a decent public school in the area they could attend, but I am frugal and don't like wasting 100k. Clearly, private schools are great at recruiting kids to attend, whatever their methods may be

 

[ankleassassin]

I think that is the sales pitch private schools love to sell. I think the question parents have to answer is if the investment of 100k+ is worth the return. Personally, I believe 99 times out of 100 its not and that one would get to the same place in life whether attending public school or private school. Especially in the Bay Area, public schools are typically more diverse (resulting in better social skills) and most of them provide comparable or better education than any private school in the area. And if my kid were lined up to attend a horrible public school, then I would find a decent public school in the area they could attend, but I am frugal and don't like wasting 100k. Clearly, private schools are great at recruiting kids to attend, whatever their methods may be

as a public school kid in an absolutely terrible neighborhood i could see why parents did not want to send their kids there. but there were no private schools around and no way to get the kids to school that were close enough.
when it was time to go to high school my family had sports on the brain, and although the public schools of option were bad, the athletics were superior and we took the good with the bad. i am only speaking about the non academic things being bad. the mater deis, bishop amants, boscos, alemanys, and montgomerys were not a real option due to logistics.
now as a grown up and living in the bay and seeing kids i know go to moreau, redwood, odowd, salesian but not only that. they went to all the private schools from K-6th i laugh when i say... i cant believe you spent all that money on school for a 7 year old when you can go for free across the street. then all that private schooling just for your kid to go to Laney, Chabot, Los Positas or East Bay. Play sports on all them private high schools just to go to junior college or get a job at 19 at tesla.