Riordan vs Roosevelt CIF Open Championship Saturday

[ankleassassin]

There are some rumors out there.

Some say the rotation/lineup changed right before that beautiful gym was completed. Read between the lines on that one. I doubt it’s that.

I believe it’s a combination of a few things.

Mellis is a Bay Area legend and Knight has built a great program at Moreau. This pulls players from both sides of BOD. St. Mary’s quick turnaround is another option now.

Tuition continues to rise at all private schools and perhaps admissions is playing a part as well. Oakland Tech is free with good academics.

Talent thinning out as folks continue to move to Sac, Stockton, Fairfield, and out of state.

It’s just a cycle and BOD will be back. St. Joe’s is down too (not to mention the WCAL outside of Riordan).

Another school that just went to back-to-back D1 ‘ships a few years ago and down is Logan (more than a few Oakland kids on that BART train getting off at Union City station in the mornings for years). San Leandro High was decent a few years ago too. Might just be an odd slump in the Bay?

Nothing wrong at all with Lou Ritchie BTW. Gets everything out of his players and is loved by the students/BOD community.

Do the athletes pay tuition? Thats wild.
BOD - i cant read the lines. help me out. what changed? My thoughts, they just didnt have anyone that great this year. undersized 1, non athletic 2, and nothing inside at the 4 or 5. The fact is, the parents with kids who can play and still live in oakland BOD is their choice. But there are far less of those parents around.

St. Joes, Logan, Newark all had coaches who were successful, who left and the new guy cant get the players to play. Also, talent is lacking at Logan and Newark. Those teams now look WAYYYY different than they did 7 years ago.

 

[kiddman32]

St. Joe's is getting at least somewhat better... went 21-9 this year, got to NCS in D3, won a first-round game.

Not saying they're on the fast-track to glory, but their outlook is a lot better than what it looked like a couple years ago.

 

[dlew66]

The thing that always impressed me the most about Kidd was the energy that he played with. He never got fatigued that you could tell. Played at 100% full speed all the time.. Offensively he didn’t particularly do any one thing exceptionally, but he did everything well. He was a demon on defense,was just relentless

Couldn’t have said it better. One of the highest motors I’ve seen in HS. Best passer I’ve seen live too.

 

[dlew66]

Do the athletes pay tuition? Thats wild.
BOD - i cant read the lines. help me out. what changed? My thoughts, they just didnt have anyone that great this year. undersized 1, non athletic 2, and nothing inside at the 4 or 5. The fact is, the parents with kids who can play and still live in oakland BOD is their choice. But there are far less of those parents around.

St. Joes, Logan, Newark all had coaches who were successful, who left and the new guy cant get the players to play. Also, talent is lacking at Logan and Newark. Those teams now look WAYYYY different than they did 7 years ago.

Maybe it’s better for you in a haiku:

Benched stars watch in vain,
Donor’s child dribbles slowly—
Gold buys court time lost.

Again, I don’t think this applies to them.

I might be shorting St. Joe’s as Kiddman just pointed out.

There was some coaching turnover, but the players weren’t coming either or just not available. So it’s not the coaching IMO at the schools mentioned.

I agree with you re the parents are moving out. That’s the trend in all sports in the Bay Area on top of MD and others in So Cal getting some Nor Cal players to transfer—especially in football.

And yes, the tuition is too high (even if there is a little assistance) for many.

Different up here (expect for Riordan to some degree now) versus So Cal schools where kids are getting full rides and housing. Bellarmine used to have dorms until sometime in the 80s and they were a football powerhouse until several years ago. Not sure if their athletes were getting tuition assistance back in the day. Doubt it.

 

[dlew66]

St. Joe's is getting at least somewhat better... went 21-9 this year, got to NCS in D3, won a first-round game.

Not saying they're on the fast-track to glory, but their outlook is a lot better than what it looked like a couple years ago.

Yes, I take back the statement regarding the Pilots. Paying too much attention to Open/D1.

 

[HSWIZARD73]

The sample size isn't enough to go all the way back to Gary Payton.
But since gordon... I'd say prolific has definitely outdone Mitty.

But again my comments relate to the Bay Area. So when we talk shift Bay Area kids, if I am not mistaken some have went back to high school and from I am a Bay Area kid, I think AG wins the argument. If cal brings in a stud from Georgia and he is a top 5 pick in the draft what relationship to the bay area does that kid have.

Maybe it’s better for you in a haiku:

Benched stars watch in vain,
Donor’s child dribbles slowly—
Gold buys court time lost.

Again, I don’t think this applies to them.

I might be shorting St. Joe’s as Kiddman just pointed out.

There was some coaching turnover, but the players weren’t coming either or just not available. So it’s not the coaching IMO at the schools mentioned.

I agree with you re the parents are moving out. That’s the trend in all sports in the Bay Area on top of MD and others in So Cal getting some Nor Cal players to transfer—especially in football.

And yes, the tuition is too high (even if there is a little assistance) for many.

Different up here (expect for Riordan to some degree now) versus So Cal schools where kids are getting full rides and housing. Bellarmine used to have dorms until sometime in the 80s and they were a football powerhouse until several years ago. Not sure if their athletes were getting tuition assistance back in the day. Doubt it.

foreign tuition for some can add up to 2 to 1 tuitions. So if one pays the foreign tuition then break it down and it covers one other. Kudos to Riordan for taking advantage of this. But a few schools will follow. There is a building in Berkeley that is close to empty. And the closer you get to Randy at St Mary’s, the possibilities could be endless

 

[remc]

Do the athletes pay tuition? Thats wild.
BOD - i cant read the lines. help me out. what changed? My thoughts, they just didnt have anyone that great this year. undersized 1, non athletic 2, and nothing inside at the 4 or 5. The fact is, the parents with kids who can play and still live in oakland BOD is their choice. But there are far less of those parents around.

St. Joes, Logan, Newark all had coaches who were successful, who left and the new guy cant get the players to play. Also, talent is lacking at Logan and Newark. Those teams now look WAYYYY different than they did 7 years ago.

Agree with you on O’Dowd. In fact, the OAL is a SHADOW of what it once was as well. Their decline has been going on for quite a few years

 

[remc]

Best HS passer I've ever seen, very far from 'not exceptional"...

Agree on the energy and defense part... He'd shut down the opponent's best player, and his help defense was phenomenal. And he could jump into passing lanes for steals that way, or just straight-out take his man's dribble away.

Also, he always was three steps ahead of everybody mentally, seemingly knew what everyone else was going to do before they knew it themselves. Uncanny and magical.

I was referring to the shooting part of his game, should have specified that.

 

[kiddman32]

Yeah, outside shooting was his weakness.

But then, he could take it to the rack just about any time he wanted. Averaged 30 ppg his senior year, also something like 9 assists and 7 rebounds.

Well, my recall was close... Wiki has 25 points, 10 assists, 7 rebounds and 7 steals for his senior year.

 

[observer22]

As far as ball handling guards, yeah, Gene Ransom was the best. Electric in the open court in a fast break. He was must see HS basketball. Gym was electric when he played. Berkeley had some nice teams in that era

Gene is up there for sure!
Kidd vs Ransom would have been one hell of a matchup. They were both terrors!

 

[Smallveteran]

I was referring to the shooting part of his game, should have specified that.

Burries like Kidd . From defensive rebound to the basket. You know what he’s doing and you still can’t stop him. Offensive transition game is next level and the highest we have seen . That changes the dynamic of everything. Which equals huge opportunity for strategy to work and ultimately WIN!

 

[ArmchairGOAT]

The one trait all of the great players seem to possess is the ability/appearance that the game is slowed down for them even though the game is actually going full speed in front of them.

 

[iamgearyblvd]

Burries like Kidd . From defensive rebound to the basket. You know what he’s doing and you still can’t stop him. Offensive transition game is next level and the highest we have seen . That changes the dynamic of everything. Which equals huge opportunity for strategy to work and ultimately WIN!

This has always been NoCal's achilles heel in the Open and D1 finals. They always go up against a player who is 6'4-6'6, ball-dominant, gets the rebound and goes straight down the floor and gets a bucket at the rim or gets fouled. They just know no one is stopping them. And when NoCal actually has a player like that they dont put the ball in his hands and opt to have their traditional PG run the offense (see Aaron Gordon in state finals games).

 

[dlew66]

Agree with you on O’Dowd. In fact, the OAL is a SHADOW of what it once was as well. Their decline has been going on for quite a few years

With housing prices continuing to rise, inflation, and other high costs of living in the Bay Area, more families may have no choice but to move out.

Yes, the OAL is not what it used to be in hoops. Seemed like yesterday when Fremont High and Mack won CIF state ‘ships.

The old RBAL (Richmond Berkeley Athletic League) was the big school (3A) powerhouse in the 80s when DLS was still in 2A. Pinole High dominated in the early 70s and Richmond High before that. Berkeley High was always competitive too. Especially in hoops.

In ‘84 (two Richmond schools) Kennedy High upset El Cerrito in the 3A football ‘ship at the Coliseum. We, Salesian, beat DLS the year before and was ranked high in 2A. De Anza High won the ‘ship a few years later and Kennedy won another after them.

Most of these players came from the same Richmond Steelers and San Pablo Renegades Pop Warner programs and were all teammates as youngsters. One of the stars from that era and from Kennedy High was DT Demarco Farr (Washington State/Rams). Many others too.

A lot of these families moved away including me. Only EC is playing at the same level in the area today in football.

Was good to see BOD back with their football program last year though.

But like football, we’re now starting to see a decline in hoops overall. But, again, maybe it’s something in the water too as I can’t explain what’s going on with the WCAL in hoops outside of the R and SI.

 

[remc]

With housing prices continuing to rise, inflation, and other high costs of living in the Bay Area, more families may have no choice but to move out.

Yes, the OAL is not what it used to be in hoops. Seemed like yesterday when Fremont High and Mack won CIF state ‘ships.

The old RBAL (Richmond Berkeley Athletic League) was the big school (3A) powerhouse in the 80s when DLS was still in 2A. Pinole High dominated in the early 70s and Richmond High before that. Berkeley High was always competitive too. Especially in hoops.

In ‘84 (two Richmond schools) Kennedy High upset El Cerrito in the 3A football ‘ship at the Coliseum. We, Salesian, beat DLS the year before and was ranked high in 2A. De Anza High won the ‘ship a few years later and Kennedy won another after them.

Most of these players came from the same Richmond Steelers and San Pablo Renegades Pop Warner programs and were all teammates as youngsters. One of the stars from that era and from Kennedy High was DT Demarco Farr (Washington State/Rams). Many others too.

A lot of these families moved away including me. Only EC is playing at the same level in the area today in football.

Was good to see BOD back with their football program last year though.

But like football, we’re now starting to see a decline in hoops overall. But, again, maybe it’s something in the water too as I can’t explain what’s going on with the WCAL in hoops outside of the R and SI.

I grew up until my sophomore year in HS on Overend Ave, one block off of Cutting Blvd. A lot of guys who grew up in the neighborhood and were part of some great Kennedy football teams, their sons all went to EC instead of JFK

 

[Elstokes]

With housing prices continuing to rise, inflation, and other high costs of living in the Bay Area, more families may have no choice but to move out.

Yes, the OAL is not what it used to be in hoops. Seemed like yesterday when Fremont High and Mack won CIF state ‘ships.

The old RBAL (Richmond Berkeley Athletic League) was the big school (3A) powerhouse in the 80s when DLS was still in 2A. Pinole High dominated in the early 70s and Richmond High before that. Berkeley High was always competitive too. Especially in hoops.

In ‘84 (two Richmond schools) Kennedy High upset El Cerrito in the 3A football ‘ship at the Coliseum. We, Salesian, beat DLS the year before and was ranked high in 2A. De Anza High won the ‘ship a few years later and Kennedy won another after them.

Most of these players came from the same Richmond Steelers and San Pablo Renegades Pop Warner programs and were all teammates as youngsters. One of the stars from that era and from Kennedy High was DT Demarco Farr (Washington State/Rams). Many others too.

A lot of these families moved away including me. Only EC is playing at the same level in the area today in football.

Was good to see BOD back with their football program last year though.

But like football, we’re now starting to see a decline in hoops overall. But, again, maybe it’s something in the water too as I can’t explain what’s going on with the WCAL in hoops outside of the R and SI.

The EBAL is attracting some of the talent. Arguably the premier league for both football and basketball in the Bay. Kids want to play against quality competition night in and night out.

 

[HSWIZARD73]

The EBAL is attracting some of the talent. Arguably the premier league for both football and basketball in the Bay. Kids want to play against quality competition night in and night out.

I love this comment. I want kids to want to be the man. To many these days want to join forces and then dominate. I am all about individual domination.

Kidd, Gooden, Gordon, to start with. They didn’t have to team up to make millions playing basketball. Nor did any of them have to or even think of going prep.

 

[kitty3]

The EBAL is attracting some of the talent. Arguably the premier league for both football and basketball in the Bay. Kids want to play against quality competition night in and night out.

EBAL schools are all over 2000 students. Long tenured coaches who invest time year round to build successful programs. Great surrounding resources (Lakeshow AAU, Ultimate Fieldhouse, Nor Cal Elite AAU). I would say the 680 corridor from Dublin to Concord (De Salle) is the best hoops hotbed in Nor Cal. All started with Allocco turning De La Salle into a powerhouse, and rise of St Mary's under Bennett. God Father influencers in this region

 

[HSWIZARD73]

EBAL schools are all over 2000 students. Long tenured coaches who invest time year round to build successful programs. Great surrounding resources (Lakeshow AAU, Ultimate Fieldhouse, Nor Cal Elite AAU). I would say the 680 corridor from Dublin to Concord (De Salle) is the best hoops hotbed in Nor Cal. All started with Allocco turning De La Salle into a powerhouse, and rise of St Mary's under Bennett. God Father influencers in this region

The best thing that can happen per your comment is that an east bay school power opens up dorms as well. It’s going to happen in my opinion. Imagine St Mary’s saying hey we got an Australian kid who wants to play high school at your school. The pipe line would be unreal.

 

[kitty3]

The best thing that can happen per your comment is that an east bay school power opens up dorms as well. It’s going to happen in my opinion. Imagine St Mary’s saying hey we got an Australian kid who wants to play high school at your school. The pipe line would be unreal.

East Bay school power like De La Salle open Dorms? Not sure they would follow the model of Riordan. As my understanding the dorms were put in place to attract international students to help increase revenue... and yes if can open up a few bunk-beds for the hoops program by all means. Im not familiar with how Publics get I-9 international student cleared to played.

 

[ankleassassin]

EBAL schools are all over 2000 students. Long tenured coaches who invest time year round to build successful programs. Great surrounding resources (Lakeshow AAU, Ultimate Fieldhouse, Nor Cal Elite AAU). I would say the 680 corridor from Dublin to Concord (De Salle) is the best hoops hotbed in Nor Cal. All started with Allocco turning De La Salle into a powerhouse, and rise of St Mary's under Bennett. God Father influencers in this region

Aau doesn't get you much better.
But what EBAL schools have versus Oakland is resources and families with the ability to pay for elite training.