Salesian 49 Pinewood 39

[GBBall4L]

Based on Pinewood's Twitter, Salesian won today's game between Pinewood and Salesian 49-39. Pinewood avenged the loss to Menlo yesterday 43-36 so in the toughest stretch of the season for them they go 1-2. Not bad considering how tough Salesian is this year.

https://twitter.com/pinewood_gbb?lang=en

 

[TheHillZ]

Based on Pinewood's Twitter, Salesian won today's game between Pinewood and Salesian 49-39. Pinewood avenged the loss to Menlo yesterday 43-36 so in the toughest stretch of the season for them they go 1-2. Not bad considering how tough Salesian is this year.

https://twitter.com/pinewood_gbb?lang=en

Long, athletic Salesian defense forced Pinewood to hurry on the offensive end. They missed lots of rushed three-pointers (just 17% for game) and those creative layups that usually find the mark. Didn't help that Pinewood's star, Courtni Thompson missed most of the game with concussion symptoms.

Even still, it was a three-point game going into the fourth quarter. I'd like Pinewood's chances in a rematch.

Credit to Salesian's foul shooting down the stretch. Super impressed with junior Amira Brown who had a bunch of boards and blocks to go along with a strong floor game.

 

[GBBall4L]

Long, athletic Salesian defense forced Pinewood to hurry on the offensive end. They missed lots of rushed three-pointers (just 17% for game) and those creative layups that usually find the mark. Didn't help that Pinewood's star, Courtni Thompson missed most of the game with concussion symptoms.

Even still, it was a three-point game going into the fourth quarter. I'd like Pinewood's chances in a rematch.

Credit to Salesian's foul shooting down the stretch. Super impressed with junior Amira Brown who had a bunch of boards and blocks to go along with a strong floor game.

That says a lot about what Doc is doing with young and/or new talent for Pinewood to have been tight in this game. Salesian has a lot of young talent also and for them to be one of the best teams in NorCal says a lot about what coach Pezzola is doing at Salesian as well.

 

[hoopsfan4321]

https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news...ls-hit-a-cold-spell-in-hoops-loss-to-salesian

 

[Winning Is Fun]

Doc is one of the top coaches in the area. I'm impressed with the job he has done with his team this year. Losing Jump and Alstrom and still one of the best teams in CCS, if not norcal.

 

[GBBall4L]

Doc is one of the top coaches in the area. I'm impressed with the job he has done with his team this year. Losing Jump and Alstrom and still one of the best teams in CCS, if not norcal.

Losing Jump, Alstrom, Copeland for the Defense and Leung at the ball handling spot. Doc is doing a good job in reloading this year.

 

[OnBall8]

with menlo's recent loss to woodside priory making pinewoods loss to menlo look worse.. if pinewood loses to MM by say, double digits, and gets blown out by Mitty in the ccs open final.. is Pinewood a norcal open team?

They would have no wins over potential open teams. Does beating the likes of Oakland Tech, C-let, California, and SRV carry enough weight to count as signature wins?

 

[OnBall8]

and my discussion point was not made to diminish what doc and pw have done this year. They are not as good as last year, but better than many expected.

 

[bayareagbballfan]

with menlo's recent loss to woodside priory making pinewoods loss to menlo look worse.. if pinewood loses to MM by say, double digits, and gets blown out by Mitty in the ccs open final.. is Pinewood a norcal open team?

They would have no wins over potential open teams. Does beating the likes of Oakland Tech, C-let, California, and SRV carry enough weight to count as signature wins?

I think given Pinewood's schedule, they need to do really well against MM to get into Norcal Open. They are in the top 6-12 range in Norcal IMHO. If they beat or stay close in the MM game, the might make it. If those lose big, I think they are in the high end of that range rather than the low end and hsould not be in Norcal Open.

 

[basketba11]

with menlo's recent loss to woodside priory making pinewoods loss to menlo look worse.. if pinewood loses to MM by say, double digits, and gets blown out by Mitty in the ccs open final.. is Pinewood a norcal open team?

They would have no wins over potential open teams. Does beating the likes of Oakland Tech, C-let, California, and SRV carry enough weight to count as signature wins?

Very good question. IMO, the top 2 teams from CCS should be in Open. So if Pinewood loses to MM and loses to Mitty in CCS Open final, they will still be selected as NorCal Open Team. As far as SJS, I think only St Marys is the only team that really warrants a NorCal Open Selection. Pinewood probably has more quality wins that any of the SJS possible 2nd selections (Antelope/Laguna Creek/McClatchy).

 

[OnBall8]

IMO, the top 2 teams from CCS should be in Open. So if Pinewood loses to MM and loses to Mitty in CCS Open final, they will still be selected as NorCal Open Team.

Even if those losses are 15+ point spreads?

 

[observer22]

Even if those losses are 15+ point spreads?

And if after losing to MM by 15+, would they then be selected over MM for the final spot, just so the CCS gets 2 spots?

 

[OnBall8]

^^exactly my point

 

[basketba11]

Good points, I see what you are saying. I agree that if MM beats Pinewood, then Pinewood shouldn't get the 6th NorCal Open spot over MM. So are you saying 4 from NCS, 1 from SJS and CCS? This could be the case. And probably even good possibility as between Salesian, MM, BOD, CN, and SJND, I would definitely say at this time that these 5 teams are Open worthy. Whoever gets left out of Open is the top seed and favorite for D1.

 

[observer22]

Whoever gets left out of Open is the top seed and favorite for D1.

Agreed. But there will be some good competition still in D1 with the likes of SRV, Cal, Carondelet, Antelope, McClatchy, Pinewood, Menlo and a few others.

 

[ClayK]

As always, it will come down to a committee, and in a committee there are strong voices, agendas and plenty of data points to compare.

Sure, it could be five NCS teams and one CCS team, but what if Pat Cruikshank, the NCS commissioner, wants his section to have a shot at a NorCal title. If he does, in any division, he can't let five NCS teams go into the Open.

But maybe he doesn't see it that way, and would see five Open teams as an honor, even if all were heavy underdogs to Mitty.

Or maybe the CCS commissioner will battle to get two; or SJS is hoping for only one so it has a better chance in the lower divisions.

And then there's the boys' side -- maybe I trade my Open vote for your boys' team for your Open vote for my girls' team (it can be done with a wink and a nod, or even less).

 

[northbaybbguru]

Why even have an Open section if the top 2 dont go?

The top 2 in the CCS should be AUTOMATIC...period!

 

[hoopsfan4321]

can’t just take top 2 in ccs. What if Mitty loses before getting to ccs championship game ? I mean their history says they lose when things get tight. Best player in county isn’t there to clean things up for them any more .So then second wcal team valley christian or St ignatius makes it to CCS championship? Do they go open? WCAL is real weak this year.

 

[ClayK]

I would think that the top two Open teams from CCS and NCS are a lock, regardless of who they are. After all, you've just proved on the court who the best two teams are right now (supposedly). And if the results on the court don't matter, then why have playoffs at all?

 

[OnBall8]

I would think that the top two Open teams from CCS and NCS are a lock, regardless of who they are. After all, you've just proved on the court who the best two teams are right now (supposedly). And if the results on the court don't matter, then why have playoffs at all?

So even if SHC sneaks into CCS open as say a 7 seed and gets to the finals (which is plausible) then they are a NorCal open team?

 

[ClayK]

That's a tough one ...

If it's the best team right now, it has to be Sacred Heart.

If it's the team that's played the best all year, then it isn't.

The problem with number one is you can get a team like SHC that gets healthy and hot and comes out of nowhere. Their resume doesn't say Open but recency bias says it pretty loudly.

The problem with number two is that you're now saying the score doesn't matter -- result nullification. And so Mitty loses in the first round of the CCS Open but you put them in NorCal Open anyway -- that makes sense. But what if Salesian loses in the first game of the NCS Open? Should Salesian get in, just like Mitty?

 

[Norcal_Fan]

if they barely qualified, how can a team with 6-7 wins make the open playoffs. I understand that there are circumstances but the open division is the entire body of work for up until that playoffs started. It would only be fair if they went to their respective divisional playoffs. Being a part of the WCAL isn't automatically a qualifier into the open division, is it?

 

[OnBall8]

if they barely qualified, how can a team with 6-7 wins make the open playoffs. I understand that there are circumstances but the open division is the entire body of work for up until that playoffs started. It would only be fair if they went to their respective divisional playoffs. Being a part of the WCAL isn't automatically a qualifier into the open division, is it?

Not officially. But if they qualify by being +.500 in the WCAL they could presumably finish in 3rd or 4th (ahead of pres and sf, and possibly SI depending on how things go). There is no way in hell that the ccs drops HALF of the WCAL back into their divisions. Never been done before, and who would you place in the open to replace those 3 teams? I'll wait...

 

[Streak One]

So even if SHC sneaks into CCS open as say a 7 seed and gets to the finals (which is plausible) then they are a NorCal open team?

If they are consistent, there is an example on boys side from last year. 8 seed SHC won the Open title, went D1 and Mitty, the 1 seed, got sent to Open. Based on that, not a guarantee they automatically take final two.

Again, if they are consistent

 

[OnBall8]

If they are consistent, there is an example on boys side from last year. 8 seed SHC won the Open title, went D1 and Mitty, the 1 seed, got sent to Open. Based on that, not a guarantee they automatically take final two.

Again, if they are consistent

And that's how I look at it. I do not think that the CCS is strong enough this year to say that the 2 finalists are automatically in NorCal open.

If pinewood or menlo make the finals against mitty then you have a strong argument based on overall record, but no real signature wins out side of the section (again presuming PW loses to MM).. if neither of those teams make the finals you will have an uphill battle trying to get the runner up into NorCal open

 

[Streak One]

And that's how I look at it. I do not think that the CCS is strong enough this year to say that the 2 finalists are automatically in NorCal open.

If pinewood or menlo make the finals against mitty then you have a strong argument based on overall record, but no real signature wins out side of the section (again presuming PW loses to MM).. if neither of those teams make the finals you will have an uphill battle trying to get the runner up into NorCal open

I agree. Based on their teams this year and pedigree (Pinewood’s continued success in Open and Menlo winning a lower state title last year), I think either are good candidates to move on.

If only 6 go, I could see Mitty, St Mary’s and four from the NCS so it might be moot

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Not officially. But if they qualify by being +.500 in the WCAL they could presumably finish in 3rd or 4th (ahead of pres and sf, and possibly SI depending on how things go). There is no way in hell that the ccs drops HALF of the WCAL back into their divisions. Never been done before, and who would you place in the open to replace those 3 teams? I'll wait...

+500 in ONLY the WCAL...with an overall losing record? How can they possibly make it to the open division?? It just doesn't seem right that a team with a losing record EXCEPT in league play would get the honor of going to the open division. you can stop holding your breath....

Mitty
Presentation
Pinewood
Valley Christian
Menlo
SHP
Woodside
Aptos

Im just throwing poop on the wall to make it stick, but the teams listed have an OVERALL better body of work than SHC (even though they beat Pres twice). could this just be the anomaly year where maybe WCAL maybe doesn't get all their teams in?

 

[OnBall8]

Woodside? really? They are 4-4 in league, but you would reward them for playing the likes of washington, terra nova, dixon, and sequioa in preseason?? I'm not totally convinced.

And you put pres in over SI? Makes zero sense.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong in your thinking this way. But the CCS has never left a top 4 finisher of the WCAL out of the open. And in fact the last 3 years it has been 5 WCAL teams in the Open. And funny enough.. a WCAL team has won in either D2 or D3 every single year since the open started with the obvious exception being last year when SHC did not qualify. So if the CCS wants SHC to win D3 and either SF or Pres to win D2 then sure just take the top 3... makes sense.. but goes against what they have done in the past, and why they set up the open in the first place (aka let publics win titles)

 

[hoopsfan4321]

Onball isnt taking into account how weak the WCAL is this year. The third place WBAL team( menlo) beat the second place WCAL ( VC) by 24. SHP starting lineup has 3 legit d1 girls.The woodside team has a couple( 3 transfers).

 

[OnBall8]

Onball isnt taking into account how weak the WCAL is this year. The third place WBAL team( menlo) beat the second place WCAL ( VC) by 24. SHP starting lineup has 3 legit d1 girls.The woodside team has a couple( 3 transfers).

Pinewood and Menlo are locks. I am not arguing that at all. And I absolutely agree the WCAL is weak compared to past years. But who has SHP or Woodside beaten?

And even if I concede that SHP and Woodside are open caliber.. which I think at least one will probably get in.. thats still 4 spots available. There have been years that it was 5 WCAL and 3 WBAL teams so a 4-4 split is definitely in the realm of possibilities. But if that's not 4 WCAL teams when who is it?? THAT'S my point, so don't twist my words hoopsfan.

Top 3 in the WCAL are in for sure (I think we can all agree). Then, if you want to throw your 4 WBAL teams in, great. Now one spot left, SHC has qualified, and they are 4th in the WCAL. Do you think the committee takes Aptos over SHC? Whether its right or wrong I just do not see it happening.

 

[hoopsfan4321]

If SHP( very good front line and well coached team) beats menlo tonight which is very possible .then based on tie breaker think menlo goes to 4th place in WBAL. With them beating VC( second place WCAL) by 24 on the road how would open be seeded? I think SHP schedule set by previous coach and almost entire team injured in preseason. They are a sleeper team in CCS open for sure. No one will want to play them.

 

[bayareagbballfan]

Onball isnt taking into account how weak the WCAL is this year. The third place WBAL team( menlo) beat the second place WCAL ( VC) by 24. SHP starting lineup has 3 legit d1 girls.The woodside team has a couple( 3 transfers).

VC beat SHP. THere's not that much difference between #2/3/4 in WCAL and WBAL. So the argument 2nd place was beaten by 3rd place doens't mean anything,

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Woodside? really? They are 4-4 in league, but you would reward them for playing the likes of washington, terra nova, dixon, and sequioa in preseason?? I'm not totally convinced.

And you put pres in over SI? Makes zero sense.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong in your thinking this way. But the CCS has never left a top 4 finisher of the WCAL out of the open. And in fact the last 3 years it has been 5 WCAL teams in the Open. And funny enough.. a WCAL team has won in either D2 or D3 every single year since the open started with the obvious exception being last year when SHC did not qualify. So if the CCS wants SHC to win D3 and either SF or Pres to win D2 then sure just take the top 3... makes sense.. but goes against what they have done in the past, and why they set up the open in the first place (aka let publics win titles)

Woodside is (again, according to MaxPreps) almost 30 teams ahead of SHC. So based on the rankings alone, they deserve to go ahead of them. like I said, I was just throwing teams out there to show the entire body of work. I wasn't dogging SI and in fact, haven't seen them play at all this year.

Presentation is ranked 66 in the state and SI is ranked 82. What they've done in the past compared to what they can do this year is apples to oranges. It's not the same situation...all I'm saying is that a team w/o double digit wins and no quality wins does NOT deserve to be placed in the open just because of past history. you have to look at the entire body of work THIS year and this year only.

 

[OnBall8]

Well if we are going to go off MaxPreps rankings then Lynbrook is in and Woodside is out... discussion over I guess

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Well if we are going to go off MaxPreps rankings then Lynbrook is in and Woodside is out... discussion over I guess

and so is sacred heart. I really don't think you understand what I'm saying...oh well...lol

 

[OnBall8]

and so is sacred heart!

yup you're right. If SHC can qualify for the playoffs it will be SF D2 champs and SHC D3 champs.

 

[ClayK]

One point raised in this thread that I fully agree with: Seedings should be based on the current season, not past achievements, coaching awards or recruited players. What happens on the court in the 2019-20 season should determine the 2019-20 postseason brackets.

 

[OnBall8]

One point raised in this thread that I fully agree with: Seedings should be based on the current season, not past achievements, coaching awards or recruited players. What happens on the court in the 2019-20 season should determine the 2019-20 postseason brackets.

Just to clarify, when I was talking about the past, it was about the tendencies of the CCS seeding committee. Not the teams being considered.