SHP coach Lavorato is one of the best around... The dude knows his deal and if he had the same talent level as most teams left in the playoffs SHP would be favorite to face Folsom in the Regional game. I was the first on these boards last year to say SHP will upset El Cerrito because of Lavorato. Didn't expect a boat race but from watching the game live and direct it was clear that Lavorato was on his "A" game. El Cerrito didn't have a clue on how stop that offense. El Cerrito bit on the fake to the fly back early an often while BBK was taking a counter back the other way... Just good sound football by a under size team. Don't sleep on SHP are you might get bitten..
SHP
- Thread starter CCSman1
- Start date
Some food for thought regarding how the selection committee worked in 2010.
In D3 Marin Catholic was the favorite all year, followed by Encinal, Escalon, and a few others (don't remember exact order).
In D3 playoffs, semi-finals, Encinal upset MC and became ranked #1 for bowl. The week after, in the finals, Cardinal Newman throttled Encinal 35-7, winning D3. And D3 that year had like five of the top six contenders playing in one section.
So the big arguments were, do you take a one-loss Escalon (with a schedule that was very weak until playoffs), or a three-loss CN who just knocked off the #1 favorite, by a good margin.
The majority of posters on this board stated emphatically, "there's no way a 3 loss team is going to state, regardless of schedule strength, and regardless of who they think is actually the better team."
And they were right. Escalon was chosen to go ( and ended up winning sbg against a Madison team, and totally making norcal proud). I believe CN could've beat that Madison team too.
The point being, overall record, even against weaker opponents seemed to override SOS. The other comparison was CN and Escalon both played Central Catholic and won, but Escalon beat them better. So despite the committee saying they don't look at score differential (just wins or losses vs. common opponent), they did in this case, and so did many posters and admins from ncp and calhi. So that also set a precedent of sorts, like "I guess we better start running up the score now. of course 2010 was also just before the regional games were instituted.
In D3 Marin Catholic was the favorite all year, followed by Encinal, Escalon, and a few others (don't remember exact order).
In D3 playoffs, semi-finals, Encinal upset MC and became ranked #1 for bowl. The week after, in the finals, Cardinal Newman throttled Encinal 35-7, winning D3. And D3 that year had like five of the top six contenders playing in one section.
So the big arguments were, do you take a one-loss Escalon (with a schedule that was very weak until playoffs), or a three-loss CN who just knocked off the #1 favorite, by a good margin.
The majority of posters on this board stated emphatically, "there's no way a 3 loss team is going to state, regardless of schedule strength, and regardless of who they think is actually the better team."
And they were right. Escalon was chosen to go ( and ended up winning sbg against a Madison team, and totally making norcal proud). I believe CN could've beat that Madison team too.
The point being, overall record, even against weaker opponents seemed to override SOS. The other comparison was CN and Escalon both played Central Catholic and won, but Escalon beat them better. So despite the committee saying they don't look at score differential (just wins or losses vs. common opponent), they did in this case, and so did many posters and admins from ncp and calhi. So that also set a precedent of sorts, like "I guess we better start running up the score now. of course 2010 was also just before the regional games were instituted.
That was the year I did a very throrough week-by-week analysis posting of the SBG potential bids based on the body of historical evidence the CIF SBG committee used for thier previous selections. I was right on all the CIF selections - although the CN / Escalon decision was truly the only difficult one. There were only a few that posted Escalon would get the bid. I can assure you, the point differencial was NOT a factor in my analysis. It was the win/loss record and Escalon's opponents went deeper into playoffs than did CN opponents. And the CIF committee stayed consistant with their historical perameters to picked Escalon over CN. I, too, thought CN was the better team, but according to historical CIF SBG committee parameters, Escalon got the bid.
This year is a much tougher decision if both Grant and SHP win out based on CIF historical parameters. But using the same historical picks, I think SHP might end up with it if all games ends as predicted. Still, I got to say, I don't think SHP will get past BCP.
I agree, the Grant /SHP choice will leave one deserving team in the cold. The way I see it, Grant has the liability of being in the same section as Folsom, and maybe the fact that CCS Open can be viewed, in general, as a higher section than SJS D2. Both teams will be undefeated, so I think the choice will hinge on an intersectional matchup, favoring SHP, even though Grant has the stronger SOS, and is likely the better team.
Regarding your 2010 post above:
Every team Escalon played that made it to playoffs lost in 1st round, except CC, who lost in 2nd round to Escalon, and Patterson (defeated Escalon in regular season), who made to SJS D3 finals, losing to Del Oro.
CN opponents made it to NCS D2 Final (Rancho vs. Concord), and two advanced to CCS open semifinals (Valley Christian and Palma).
So I wouldn't say Escalon opponents advanced farther in playoffs. CN opponents actually did. The average SOS of Escalon opponents, including playoffs, was a minus calpreps rating. CN's avg opponent rating was like 15.29. So CN clearly had the stronger SOS, and the toughest D3 playoff section by far. So, if like you said, score differential against common opponent didn't count (CC game), then overall record must've been the defining criteria, and schedule strength was just thrown out the window. BTW, I was involved in many posts and threads, personally, regarding these arguments in 2010, so I know there were more than 2 or 3 people pushing for Escalon on the boards (or against CN).
If selection committee is still historically giving overall record more weight than SOS, I see SHP going over Grant just by virtue of being in a different section.
Regarding your 2010 post above:
Every team Escalon played that made it to playoffs lost in 1st round, except CC, who lost in 2nd round to Escalon, and Patterson (defeated Escalon in regular season), who made to SJS D3 finals, losing to Del Oro.
CN opponents made it to NCS D2 Final (Rancho vs. Concord), and two advanced to CCS open semifinals (Valley Christian and Palma).
So I wouldn't say Escalon opponents advanced farther in playoffs. CN opponents actually did. The average SOS of Escalon opponents, including playoffs, was a minus calpreps rating. CN's avg opponent rating was like 15.29. So CN clearly had the stronger SOS, and the toughest D3 playoff section by far. So, if like you said, score differential against common opponent didn't count (CC game), then overall record must've been the defining criteria, and schedule strength was just thrown out the window. BTW, I was involved in many posts and threads, personally, regarding these arguments in 2010, so I know there were more than 2 or 3 people pushing for Escalon on the boards (or against CN).
If selection committee is still historically giving overall record more weight than SOS, I see SHP going over Grant just by virtue of being in a different section.
Curious, why do you believe that?
For a majority of the past 5-6 years, SJS D2 has been deeper and more difficult than SJS D1 - this season included. And many would argue that the SJS has been and continues to be the toughest section in NorCal.
No doubt that the CCS Open is difficult. And I can buy into the idea that the CCS Open is on par with SJS D2. But stating that it is generally viewed as the more difficult playoff bracket is a bit off the mark, I believe. Sure, some CCS homers might believe that, but I don't think that is a widely popular view.
Anybody that's been paying attention the past 5+ years would know that SJS D2 has been as good, if not better, than any other NorCal playoff bracket.
I hear what you're saying. I'm only trying to see thru a committee member's eyes here. CCS Open is the highest playoff section in CCS, taking the pool of all the best teams in CCS and placing them in one playoff bracket. SJS D2 seems, in general ,a step below that, even though that doesn't mean the teams in SJS 2 couldn't beat the teams in CCS Open. SI, the 6th place team in WCAL beat SMarys. SM is in the finals of SJS D2 nd SI didn't even make the open.
This post was edited on 12/3 4:21 PM by 1tunz1
This post was edited on 12/3 4:21 PM by 1tunz1
Tunz - I stand corrected on this matter. I went back to look at my records to see that the subject team had to win the opponent games who later made it into playoffs for it to count as a benefit. So in that case neither CN or Esc had any opponent playoff credit. And I also noted in my records that even though CN had more merit (and Terra Nova had the most merit) that the CIF Commiittee would default to Escalon because of win/loss record. Up to that point (if memory serves), the CIF committee had never selected a team with 3 or more losses. Therefore TN and CN were ruled out.
Sad thing here is that the SJS D2 gets the shaft on this. It has been the deepest division in Nor Cal for some time. Grant and SMS should have been put in D1 if there was no way for them to advance. And not to be picking on DLS but it seems unfair to give them a free pass. Folsom on the same level as DLS this year and has to win on the field. All four section winners should get a fair shake at the state.
1tunz1 -- compare the 8 CCS Open participants this season with the top 8 seeds from the SJS D2 field of 16 and tell me if you see an obvious difference:
Sacred Heart Prep --- Grant UnionMilpitas --- Elk GrovePalma --- St. Mary'sSerra --- Del OroLos Gatos --- VacavilleValley Christian --- RocklinBellarmine --- BurbankOak Grove --- Downey
Sacred Heart Prep --- Grant UnionMilpitas --- Elk GrovePalma --- St. Mary'sSerra --- Del OroLos Gatos --- VacavilleValley Christian --- RocklinBellarmine --- BurbankOak Grove --- Downey
If both SHP and Grant win their section championship games there needs to be some type of add-on game that Monday. Even if these two teams play in an overtime format whereas both teams get an opportunity to score. Put the ball on the 15 yard line and see who wins. The teams can get a first down at the five... You cannot just send one of this teams to play Folsom without seeing them go against each other on the field of play. At least this way both teams can say we blew it or they were better than us... Any other way is just down right terrible and very unfair to both of these groups of kids, coaches, parents and fans of football.
and to think the commissioners could not see this possibility developing ...... what were they smoking.
While I don't disagree with it being terrible and unfair, it's not like this hasn't been going on since the inception of the SBG's in 2006. They sent DLS over Grant in 2006 without lining them up. Undefeated Casa Roble lost their only shot at a SBG in 2008 to a 2-loss St. Mary's team without lining them up. The examples can go on and on. The Regionals have the same problem.
As for the potential SHP-Grant controversy this season, you can thank the CCS for placing SHP in the Open game where they are no longer eligible for the lower division bowl game and the CIF for eliminating the Regional Open game thus squeezing 1 team out. Had they not done that, SHP and Grant would likely be playing one another.
Thunder:
I am personally in favor of Grant in this situation. I'm a firm believer in strong schedule strength. I wasn't attempting to take sides with CCS, only trying to predict how the committee might think on this issue. I could be very wrong. And I am an NCS supporter, primarily.
Here's some other thoughts: SJS is larger than CCS, meaning more competition. More competition means all the playoff sections are always strong and tough. That should equalize with the CCS Open format.
If overall records of Grant and SHP are the same (both undefeated), the next fair consideration should be SOS, not which section a team is from. In that case, Grant gets selected. Reward the team for the greater risks (tougher opponents). This differs from the CN/Escalon situation above, in that these teams didn't have identical records, and the 3 losses by CN were just too much for SOS to overcome (to the committee).
I wouldn't think twice about selecting Grant, personally. Unfortunately, that doesn't give SHP any opportunity to prove me wrong on the field, like SHP did last year in the regional game emphatically.
(Maybe committee should put Folsom in the Open and let DLS play Grant
I am personally in favor of Grant in this situation. I'm a firm believer in strong schedule strength. I wasn't attempting to take sides with CCS, only trying to predict how the committee might think on this issue. I could be very wrong. And I am an NCS supporter, primarily.
Here's some other thoughts: SJS is larger than CCS, meaning more competition. More competition means all the playoff sections are always strong and tough. That should equalize with the CCS Open format.
If overall records of Grant and SHP are the same (both undefeated), the next fair consideration should be SOS, not which section a team is from. In that case, Grant gets selected. Reward the team for the greater risks (tougher opponents). This differs from the CN/Escalon situation above, in that these teams didn't have identical records, and the 3 losses by CN were just too much for SOS to overcome (to the committee).
I wouldn't think twice about selecting Grant, personally. Unfortunately, that doesn't give SHP any opportunity to prove me wrong on the field, like SHP did last year in the regional game emphatically.
(Maybe committee should put Folsom in the Open and let DLS play Grant
Sacred Heart Prep --- Grant UnionMilpitas --- Elk GrovePalma --- St. Mary'sSerra --- Del OroLos Gatos --- VacavilleValley Christian --- RocklinBellarmine --- BurbankOak Grove --- Downey
I think Thunder just invented the initial concept for the beginning of a nor cal playoff. Of coarse you would have to turn it upside down
Grant v Oak Grove
Sacred Heart V Downey
Milpitas v Burbank
Elk Grove v Bellarmine
St Mary's v Valley Christian
Palma v Rocklin
Serra v Vacaville
Los Gatos v Del Oro
I think Thunder just invented the initial concept for the beginning of a nor cal playoff. Of coarse you would have to turn it upside down
Grant v Oak Grove
Sacred Heart V Downey
Milpitas v Burbank
Elk Grove v Bellarmine
St Mary's v Valley Christian
Palma v Rocklin
Serra v Vacaville
Los Gatos v Del Oro
My only problem with this is that it is not SHP's fault that their league had such a down year besides Burlingame, who has not done very well. SHP had 5 pretty easy games because their division had such a terrible year and Terra Nova was not its usual self. SHP's non-conference schedule was not that bad if you look at it, some decent-solid teams they played. SHP wants to prove themselves in the playoffs and have done that. I think depending on the scores SHP will and should be picked. If SHP wins by 14+ what do you think should be the case. If Grant wins in OT by 3 or 7 do you think SHP deserves the spot. I think that the way these teams win these championship games is very important to the overall evaluation of the team.
It's funny you mention a NorCal playoff because I was thinking the same thing earlier today and actually put together a 16-team NorCal Open Regional bracket. I suppose it's the same concept as what the PAC-5 is, except that it involved all NorCal Sections (Enterprise and Sutter from the NS made it in). I just took the top 16 "rated" teams according to Calpreps and placed them in a bracket to see how it would look. The problem is, I was using the ratings as they are today .. not how they were at the end of the regular season.
I like the idea -- even though it will never happen.
Bulldogmagic
Attn cappyjohnson: ... you said MT would not come withing 50 points of Folsom. Guess what? The score was 56-14. That equates to a 42 point difference. Nice try! Keep it coming. We have our scopes in place, trigger pulled back, and ready to fire. LOL!
Bulldogmagic, Folsom was winning 56-0 early in the third. Folsom pulled their starters because all the sensitive fans/parents don't like to see little Johnny get embarrassed 70-0. If Folsom left their starters in it would have been 80-0....Any MT fans want to dispute me? It's Ok I like MT no disrespect, Folsom has done it to everyone all year long. I know get to see another one of my predictions come true, now that the Sections are almost over we can watch and read about the CCS fans complain because they didn't get any representation in the CIF Norcal games. So awesome....I'm just waiting for that lawyer dad from SHP or Bellermine to file suit against the CIF for not giving their team a shot. I would love to see Folsom play SHP or Bellermine, are you kidding me. Grant is a good team, but I would rather see the CCS Privates go down in flames!
Attn cappyjohnson: ... you said MT would not come withing 50 points of Folsom. Guess what? The score was 56-14. That equates to a 42 point difference. Nice try! Keep it coming. We have our scopes in place, trigger pulled back, and ready to fire. LOL!
Bulldogmagic, Folsom was winning 56-0 early in the third. Folsom pulled their starters because all the sensitive fans/parents don't like to see little Johnny get embarrassed 70-0. If Folsom left their starters in it would have been 80-0....Any MT fans want to dispute me? It's Ok I like MT no disrespect, Folsom has done it to everyone all year long. I know get to see another one of my predictions come true, now that the Sections are almost over we can watch and read about the CCS fans complain because they didn't get any representation in the CIF Norcal games. So awesome....I'm just waiting for that lawyer dad from SHP or Bellermine to file suit against the CIF for not giving their team a shot. I would love to see Folsom play SHP or Bellermine, are you kidding me. Grant is a good team, but I would rather see the CCS Privates go down in flames!
Cappy why are you taking shots at Bellarmine and SHP by basically saying they are spoiled rich kids who get whatever they want. I think Folsom is going to blowout (21+ pts) anyone they play either Grant, Bellarmine, SHP, or St. Mary's. There is no reason to talk bad about other teams fans when Folsom does the right thing and pull their starters to rest their players and they know the game is over. It is not nice to run up the score and put them down and embarrass another team. Folsom does the respectable thing and pulls their starters to ensure safety and respect the other team
Guys!!! PLEASE do not lump the rest of us on here with teams outside the Bay Area with this arrogant and insensitive CAPPY!!!!!!!! He is one dude that just does not get that he is attacking the integrity and hard work of hundreds of young men playing a game. His words are becoming hateful and disparaging. You all know that I am a Sutter homer but I will not beat down a team or program to spite my allegiance. I totally get that Aptos is a team that is just as deserving as Sutter should they win and will not sit here and beat them down to make myself feel better. Don't get me wrong I WANT SUTTER TO BE PICKED but I will not disrespect another program that has the same goals as we do. Cappy!!! Get a grip. Its ok. We all know Folsom is good. What are you trying to accomplish here????? Chill out
Just for the record, I think it will be very difficult for the CCS to be left out at some capacity. We will all know on Sunday
Just for the record, I think it will be very difficult for the CCS to be left out at some capacity. We will all know on Sunday
Cappy-still waiting for you to take me up on my offer of a few beers...I am heading up towards Sacramento in a few weeks. Let me know your name and where you live and the beers are on me. We can talk football all day and night (I can give you some insight on the issues facing the CCS schools...I promise that you will be shocked at some of the numbers). Until then, get off your high horse...other than Folsom ( who is still not as good as DLS) the top Sac schools and top Bay Area schools are pretty even.
Point spreads in wins will have nothing to do with how the CIF will make their decsion. At least that is what has been repeatedly stated and I can find no evidence to suggest otherwise. So a Grant win in OT and SHP win 14+ will not change anything. I have argued that SHP may have a shot over Grant simply because they have two opponents with sectional titles (assuming Grant, SHP, Salinas and TN win). But even with a CCS Open title, I still personally think Grant is the better team over SHP. It will be interesting to see how the CIF Committee decides between two undefeated teams. Will it be political, will it be opponent success or will it be reputation. Top to bottom, Grant's SOS is better. But top to top, Grant and SHP's SOS will be similar. So I don't think its the SOS slam-dunk as others have suggested.
IMO, all this talk is mute because I don't think SHP gets by BCP. And if SHP doesn't win, CIF will not have to even listen to rationale - it will Grant and Folsom for RBG DI.
This post was edited on 12/2 2:06 PM by FBAddict
Interestingly, like me, you did not give SHP much of a chance against Los Gatos, either. I am guessing you did not think St. Mary's would get this far, either, in their respective SJS D2 playoffs. Why even discuss an opponent for Folsom? Isn't it a mute issue, as well? lol
If the powers that be had any sense at all they would put Grant in there to make the money. Neither one of these teams are equipped to knock Folsom off this year so why not make the money. No Grant vs Folsom would be a lot of loot passed up. That type of money would make a great Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!
This post was edited on 12/2 7:31 PM by PGownsWHITNEY
This post was edited on 12/2 7:31 PM by PGownsWHITNEY
Ok thanks for clearing that up for me
I was a little unsure if it matter. I have been saying the same thing. Why are people already predicting to play Folsom. Two reasons I don't like it. SHP or Grant could very easily lose this week. 2 Folsom is gonna 95% of the time against SHP or Grant, so its not that big of a deal who makes it. Im not even sure if the players want to play another week because they have finals coming up and would rather be studying. They have an extra week of practice and film for a game they probably will get destroyed.
Fact of the matter, while unlikely, the selection committee could place Folsom in the Open Division and the Spartans in D1 (assuming they both win). The committee has made selections in the past that not all the experts agree. Whoever gets picked, any team that wins a section title deserves a shot. There will always be a deserving team that doesn't get in. In any event, I will be rooting for the north in the state bowl games.
"politics will be the key factor and fair representation as best can be formulated will be the only factor for deciding who plays in the NorCal D1 Regional game."
Bulldogmgc-I have to agree with you. CIF has to choose who goes in and who is out but leaving CCS entirely from RBG is an issue they will try to avoid. Especially when CCS grouped all their top teams in the Open. I think they are praying that Aptos defeats SI so they are off the hook. If Aptos lose and Bells win, they will have to pick the bells and face Folsom. If SHP wins, then SHP moves forward and face Folsom. My thoughts.
Bulldogmgc-I have to agree with you. CIF has to choose who goes in and who is out but leaving CCS entirely from RBG is an issue they will try to avoid. Especially when CCS grouped all their top teams in the Open. I think they are praying that Aptos defeats SI so they are off the hook. If Aptos lose and Bells win, they will have to pick the bells and face Folsom. If SHP wins, then SHP moves forward and face Folsom. My thoughts.
I brought up the point of $$ being the #1 factor early in this thread. The CIF won't be concerned about fairness or making sure every section is represented. They'll go with what they believe will produce the most $$. SHP v. Folsom is a horrible draw. Grant v. Folsom will draw at least 15K with the potential to draw up to the 22K that attended the game in 2010.Originally posted by PGownsWHITNEY:
If the powers that be had any sense at all they would put Grant in there to make the money. No Grant vs Folsom would be a lot of loot passed up. That type of money would make a great Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!
It's a non-issue anyway as SHP and Grant still have games to win this weekend against pretty good opponents.
Yup, I know that Folsom vs. DLS has been "pretty good" $ for the CIF, but 2010 type #'s they were not. Just to clarify what we are talking about consider 22,000 tickets cold at $15/each = $330,000. That's about $2k in security, officials, transportation reimbursement, throw in $5k facility rental (very high estimate) and the fellas at the CIF are driving the BRINKS truck home with $320k+.Originally posted by ThunderRam:
I brought up the point of $$ being the #1 factor early in this thread. The CIF won't be concerned about fairness or making sure every section is represented. They'll go with what they believe will produce the most $$. SHP v. Folsom is a horrible draw. Grant v. Folsom will draw at least 15K with the potential to draw up to the 22K that attended the game in 2010.Originally posted by PGownsWHITNEY:
If the powers that be had any sense at all they would put Grant in there to make the money. No Grant vs Folsom would be a lot of loot passed up. That type of money would make a great Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!
It's a non-issue anyway as SHP and Grant still have games to win this weekend against pretty good opponents.
In the Folsom vs. "anyone else" you get the Folsom crowd (5k+/-) + "anyone else"s fans (say another 5k) and that's it.
You put Folsom's 5k on the field with Grant's 5k at Sac State and you get every other SFL, Delta, Tri County and Metro coach, player and fan who doesn't have a basketball or wrestling meet that day (another 10k+)
Ooops, sorry I forgot the $1.79 felt banner.....the kids are left to pay for the $300 rings themselves.
Re: Sounds Familiar...
...
This post was edited on 12/6 11:18 AM by Irish_Cheers
This post was edited on 12/18 10:11 AM by Irish_Cheers
Right. Replace "Cappy" with "FUBO" and you know what we have to put up with.
...
This post was edited on 12/6 11:18 AM by Irish_Cheers
This post was edited on 12/18 10:11 AM by Irish_Cheers
It seems to me that it would be hard to justify placing SHP over Grant just on the basis of # of wins and SOS.
Grant has beat 5 top 100 Ca. teams
SHP has only beat 2 top 100 Ca. teams
Grant has beat 9 top 200 Ca. teams
SHP has only beat 3 top 200 Ca. teams
The average final rank of all opponents for Grant is 190 in state
The average final rank of all opponents for SHP is 320 in state
Grant has won 4 post season games
SHP has only won 3 post season games
Grant record 14-0
SHP record 13-0
Final win loss record of all Grant opponents 97-66
Final win loss record of all SHP opponents 81-68
Grant has beat 3 teams ranked above SHP (Elk Grove, Vacaville, and St. Mary's)
Grant should not be penalized by CCS adding open division in the thoughts that CCS should not be left out.
I believe if anything leaves Grant out it will be their sportsmanship, people have stated it was poor during both the St Mary's game and the Vacaville game.
All selection points aside it is hard to dispute the above facts. If SHP had scheduled better teams one of two things would have happened, A: they would have possibly lost a game or B: they would have the SOS to move on to play.
It will be unfortunate if the decision is made either because of Money (gate draw) or Pity by CIF for the CCS being left out.
I guess we will see soon.
Grant has beat 5 top 100 Ca. teams
SHP has only beat 2 top 100 Ca. teams
Grant has beat 9 top 200 Ca. teams
SHP has only beat 3 top 200 Ca. teams
The average final rank of all opponents for Grant is 190 in state
The average final rank of all opponents for SHP is 320 in state
Grant has won 4 post season games
SHP has only won 3 post season games
Grant record 14-0
SHP record 13-0
Final win loss record of all Grant opponents 97-66
Final win loss record of all SHP opponents 81-68
Grant has beat 3 teams ranked above SHP (Elk Grove, Vacaville, and St. Mary's)
Grant should not be penalized by CCS adding open division in the thoughts that CCS should not be left out.
I believe if anything leaves Grant out it will be their sportsmanship, people have stated it was poor during both the St Mary's game and the Vacaville game.
All selection points aside it is hard to dispute the above facts. If SHP had scheduled better teams one of two things would have happened, A: they would have possibly lost a game or B: they would have the SOS to move on to play.
It will be unfortunate if the decision is made either because of Money (gate draw) or Pity by CIF for the CCS being left out.
I guess we will see soon.
awood1 posted on 12/3/2014...
In the Folsom vs. "anyone else" you get the Folsom crowd (5k+/-) + "anyone else"s fans (say another 5k) and that's it.
You put Folsom's 5k on the field with Grant's 5k at Sac State and you get every other SFL, Delta, Tri County and Metro coach, player and fan who doesn't have a basketball or wrestling meet that day (another 10k+)
Ooops, sorry I forgot the $1.79 felt banner.....the kids are left to pay for the $300 rings themselves.
____________________________________________________________________________
You forgot Parking and Concessions. Parking at $5 a car times 2,000 cars equals another $10k dollars. Add at least another $12k for concessions. The grand total of approximately $20k more.
Yup, I know that Folsom vs. DLS has been "pretty good" $ for the CIF, but 2010 type #'s they were not. Just to clarify what we are talking about consider 22,000 tickets cold at $15/each = $330,000. That's about $2k in security, officials, transportation reimbursement, throw in $5k facility rental (very high estimate) and the fellas at the CIF are driving the BRINKS truck home with $320k+.Originally posted by ThunderRam:
I brought up the point of $$ being the #1 factor early in this thread. The CIF won't be concerned about fairness or making sure every section is represented. They'll go with what they believe will produce the most $$. SHP v. Folsom is a horrible draw. Grant v. Folsom will draw at least 15K with the potential to draw up to the 22K that attended the game in 2010.Originally posted by PGownsWHITNEY:
If the powers that be had any sense at all they would put Grant in there to make the money. No Grant vs Folsom would be a lot of loot passed up. That type of money would make a great Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!
It's a non-issue anyway as SHP and Grant still have games to win this weekend against pretty good opponents.
In the Folsom vs. "anyone else" you get the Folsom crowd (5k+/-) + "anyone else"s fans (say another 5k) and that's it.
You put Folsom's 5k on the field with Grant's 5k at Sac State and you get every other SFL, Delta, Tri County and Metro coach, player and fan who doesn't have a basketball or wrestling meet that day (another 10k+)
Ooops, sorry I forgot the $1.79 felt banner.....the kids are left to pay for the $300 rings themselves.
____________________________________________________________________________
You forgot Parking and Concessions. Parking at $5 a car times 2,000 cars equals another $10k dollars. Add at least another $12k for concessions. The grand total of approximately $20k more.
Maybe they should just put SHP in the Open and let DLS play FolsomOriginally posted by 1tunz1:
Thunder:
I am personally in favor of Grant in this situation. I'm a firm believer in strong schedule strength. I wasn't attempting to take sides with CCS, only trying to predict how the committee might think on this issue. I could be very wrong. And I am an NCS supporter, primarily.
Here's some other thoughts: SJS is larger than CCS, meaning more competition. More competition means all the playoff sections are always strong and tough. That should equalize with the CCS Open format.
If overall records of Grant and SHP are the same (both undefeated), the next fair consideration should be SOS, not which section a team is from. In that case, Grant gets selected. Reward the team for the greater risks (tougher opponents). This differs from the CN/Escalon situation above, in that these teams didn't have identical records, and the 3 losses by CN were just too much for SOS to overcome (to the committee).
I wouldn't think twice about selecting Grant, personally. Unfortunately, that doesn't give SHP any opportunity to prove me wrong on the field, like SHP did last year in the regional game emphatically.
(Maybe committee should put Folsom in the Open and let DLS play Grant
I figure this comment fits this thread best. It'd be nice, with the disbandment of the open regional, if the ccs open winner could actually rep their division instead of being forced d1. We no longer need 4 d1 eligible teams; and, while it may muddy up the d3 regional selection at least they'd be compared to schools their size.
