SJS realignment
- Thread starter OtherBrotha
- Start date
I don’t like 8 teams in a league. That means teams only have 3 non-league games or don’t play everyone every year. Not good. For basketball that adds 4 league games which essentially means you play one less tournament, which I think is the funnest part of the season besides playoffs. Some real team bonding happens when teams travel to tournaments
The Delta League looks right to me. Putting all the large Elk Grove schools in one league has been talked about for years, but something has always tripped it up. Let's hope that it sticks this time. Being able to crown a "City Champ" in every sport would be pretty cool.
Overall, this looks pretty good. But I agree that an 8 team league is too big. Shorter league schedules allow teams to better schedule to their level.
I have mixed feelings about league size(regarding football-only).
I think a six team league is too small with only five league games. It's still the best option, though.
I think that six leagues games is the best number, but that requires an odd-numbered seven team league. Not the worst thing, but it makes the league schedule asymmetrical. Call this a close 2nd place idea.
The eight team league has it's place, but not in the "better" leagues. Top-level teams in each division should be playing a significant number of non-league games (four or five). This gives them a chance to get wins which will be difficult in league while also allowing them to schedule above their level against very good opponents. Pre-league play against quality opponents from other leagues and sections would be great for football in general.
For teams with struggling programs, the eight team league is actually really good. It lets them schedule a few warm-up games in accordance with their coaching philosophy, but it also guarantees them a significant amount of games against opponents of similar situation.
If the SJS went to football-only power leagues, it could look like this:
A Leagues would have 6-7 teams.
B leagues would have 6-8 teams.
C leagues would have 8 teams, possibly even 10 teams as has been done a handful of times before.
The metro has to be fixed. Every team but Grant and Indy should be in lower divisions. Those schools are not getting better at fb, your giving them the death penalty by subjecting them to the physical beatings they will take on Friday nights. How long before Cordova, Kennedy, McClatchy and River City's best players just transfer to Grant or Indy? Shoot they're probably already there anyways.
Good point. We need to go to football-only leagues. Football creates unique competitive problems.
FB only leagues will not be approved by the board. I do think there are some ways to make fb only ammendments but I'm not sure they want that either. End of the day we have some big schools that are poor at fb and those admin or districts don't seem to care or can't get them better for some reason, this screws up a better alternative allingment.
Pretty tough to argue with anything you have said.
There's this reality and my post was wishful thinking.
Man the Metro needs major work. The schools that you mentioned (Cordova, CkM, RC, and Kenn. should be playing D4/5 football.
We are about 10 days away from the next realignment meeting where we may see suggestions to significantly change the first proposal.
Things are pretty quiet in Elk Grove. I haven't heard of anyone complaining about the proposal for the Delta.
Has anyone heard anything about what might come up?
Things are pretty quiet in Elk Grove. I haven't heard of anyone complaining about the proposal for the Delta.
Has anyone heard anything about what might come up?
Haven’t heard anything but that sounds like a good idea. Maybe the SJS should consider an 8 team D1 football league:
New SJS league could consist of a North and South Division. This league would be just as good, if not better than the current SFL. It would also give teams like St. Mary’s, Monterey Trails, and Manteca an opportunity to compete against better competition. North teams would play everyone in their division including 2 others from the South. Vice versa. (Or just play all 7 teams).
North Divsion
1) Folsom
2) Oak Ridge
3) Granite Bay
4) Jesuit
South Division
1) St. Mary’s
2) Manteca
3) Elk Grove
4) Monterey Trails
……………………………………………….
Other D1 football leagues
North
Sheldon
Laguna
PG
Franklin
CO
Davis
TCAL
Tracy
Lodi
Lincoln
Edison
Tokay
West
Division 2
I-80 league
Del Oro
Rocklin
Grant
Inderkum
Whitney
Roseville
Woodcreek
Antelope
Division 3 League
Christian Brothers
Capital Christian
Vanden
Vacaville
Yuba City
River Valley
New SJS league could consist of a North and South Division. This league would be just as good, if not better than the current SFL. It would also give teams like St. Mary’s, Monterey Trails, and Manteca an opportunity to compete against better competition. North teams would play everyone in their division including 2 others from the South. Vice versa. (Or just play all 7 teams).
North Divsion
1) Folsom
2) Oak Ridge
3) Granite Bay
4) Jesuit
South Division
1) St. Mary’s
2) Manteca
3) Elk Grove
4) Monterey Trails
……………………………………………….
Other D1 football leagues
North
Sheldon
Laguna
PG
Franklin
CO
Davis
TCAL
Tracy
Lodi
Lincoln
Edison
Tokay
West
Division 2
I-80 league
Del Oro
Rocklin
Grant
Inderkum
Whitney
Roseville
Woodcreek
Antelope
Division 3 League
Christian Brothers
Capital Christian
Vanden
Vacaville
Yuba City
River Valley
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From what I am hearing, you are not going to get too much buy-in from the EGUSD schools about mixing up the current Delta proposal. I have talked to people at four of the seven schools, and they are all okay with it. I personally, have not heard of anyone in EGUSD against it. There seems to be the idea that if anyone tweaks that part of realignment, it will be from outside of Elk Grove.
We'll all know more by tomorrow. This 2nd meeting is when any behind-the-scenes maneuvering or ideas come to light.
Word is Inderkum wants out of the Metro and in on the delta.. havent heard from the new SFL schools tho.. there might be some harsh feelings there as well..
Yes, you are right. The problem is football. It will always be football. It is THE outlier that makes it hard to properly align schools. Until the Section finally admits that, they will always have this problem.
And yes, I am 100% aware that they may never admit that in my lifetime. I'm just venting.
Recently returned from a jaunt in the CCS, specifically the PCAL. They do realignment every year by sport and gender. Top teams in top division (Gabilan), next most competitive in 2nd division, etc. As a long time SJS guy, I was immediately put off by it…. What about rivalries? Too much work to do every year. How do you determine next year’s divisions: past success? Lower level success? How many returners? All are legit concerns. It’s an inexact science prone to lots of lobbying by member schools.
That being said, the PCAL acknowledges that different schools are successful in different sports and boys and girls teams often enjoy different levels of success. They try to honor competitive equity. I always appreciated the efforts of the PCAL commissioner and lead ADs/principals.
Of course, we’re talking 35 PCAL schools compared to 200+ schools in the SJS. If, however, the SJS split into say 3 conferences, it might be doable. As my good friend often says, “I don’t know if I like words coming out of my mouth “, but the SJS, as it’s currently configured, is unwieldy. It needs more local control and to recognize schools are not necessarily strong across the board.
That being said, the PCAL acknowledges that different schools are successful in different sports and boys and girls teams often enjoy different levels of success. They try to honor competitive equity. I always appreciated the efforts of the PCAL commissioner and lead ADs/principals.
Of course, we’re talking 35 PCAL schools compared to 200+ schools in the SJS. If, however, the SJS split into say 3 conferences, it might be doable. As my good friend often says, “I don’t know if I like words coming out of my mouth “, but the SJS, as it’s currently configured, is unwieldy. It needs more local control and to recognize schools are not necessarily strong across the board.
It makes geographical sense to have all of the EGUSD schools in one league. Would also be fairly formidable with Elk Grove, MT, and possibly Sheldon in football…
I still like @mistark idea to form a league with:
Jesuit
Capital
Christian Brothers
Indy
Grant
(Would need to add one team)
This would give Sacramento a strong football and basketball league…
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Looking at this most recent proposal from yesterday Proposal 3-A. What stands out the most is the Metro and GSL being 6 team scapegoats, Sac High being in a D-5 league with not a single school in their region. Only thing that seems to be right are the Delta, SFL, and maybe CVC with CB taking Rosevilles spot since the last proposal. Transfer Portal getting ready to get even busier
I'm not a big fan of the proposed FVL.
YC has been in the playoffs each year in the CVC (2nd round twice) and are getting dropped a league division. It will make competing in the playoffs harder for YC/RV and better for Sutter. The Sutter folks I talk to don't seem to be thrilled either (and they are leass tha 1/2 the size of the other schools). I'd like to see pondo and Vista replace the YC schools in the FVL and YC stay in the CVC.
But, looking on the bright side, if FVL remains as proposed the gates and snack bar incomes.will be huge.
YC has been in the playoffs each year in the CVC (2nd round twice) and are getting dropped a league division. It will make competing in the playoffs harder for YC/RV and better for Sutter. The Sutter folks I talk to don't seem to be thrilled either (and they are leass tha 1/2 the size of the other schools). I'd like to see pondo and Vista replace the YC schools in the FVL and YC stay in the CVC.
But, looking on the bright side, if FVL remains as proposed the gates and snack bar incomes.will be huge.
I read from another source that the CCAL coaches want to preserve the league the way it is (which is in line with the current realignment proposal). When the CCAL was first formed it was predicted that Turlock and Pitman would dominate and while Pitman has totally gone in the tank Turlock did not lose any league games for the first few years. In the last two seasons Downey has come on but the reality is that the league is weak after the top two. I have no insight into why the other teams don't improve, especially Pitman as they used to have good teams. I would surmise that a winning culture has a lot to do with it, and Turlock for a number of years has had it. They expect to excel, their JV and Freshman teams always are winners , feeding the varsity, and they're not afraid to schedule difficult OOC games even knowing that they could lose the majority of them. Now, all of these observations are about football, and that is by far the driving force in high school athletics (and college). But in the other sports the CCAL is much better balanced so that is a consideration. Adding Manteca and Oakdale would immediately increase the football stature. Is that what they want?
Kind of a significant shift in the latest proposal (4A):
Inderkum moves to the Delta full time and makes it an 8-team league with the seven big EGUSD schools.
Antelope moves to the Metro full time.
Capital Christian and Sac Hi move to the Metro for football and basketball.
Inderkum moves to the Delta full time and makes it an 8-team league with the seven big EGUSD schools.
Antelope moves to the Metro full time.
Capital Christian and Sac Hi move to the Metro for football and basketball.
Totally disappointed in the southern end. The CCAL not making a move to get Oakdale and Manteca, and Central hiding out in a D3 league is embarrassing. Modesto City Schools is not doing any justice wanting to keep Modesto High and Enochs High tied in with Downey and Gregori. Put them in a league with Davis, Beyer and Johanson. Oakdale, Manteca and Central would all be big gate games against Downey, Turlock and Gregori. Who would rather watch Central play Mountain House over a Oakdale/Turlock game?
I get that Manteca isn't a great fit overall, but I'm struggling to see how Kimball is better.
A lot of these choices are being driven by the AD’s requests. All the documents and minutes are up on the section site. I personally like the adjustments to the metro and especially the delta.
Probably because Kimball doesn't have anybody fighting for them. The more you fight, the more things go your way...the less you fight, the more you get whatever is leftover.
Of course you are right.
But HOW did anybody think jumping Kimball from D4 and 1621 students to D1 with Lincoln at 2900+ makes any sense? It is head-scratching. They just seem like one of the least likely candidates. They're going to get mollywhopped.
well... the way I see it.. they need to put somebody there in the tcal. Seems like they are committed to moving tokay and west, rightfully so.... they got edison for 5, they need one more. and manteca made a compelling case why it shouldn't be them... so they are just throwing stuff up against the wall to see what sticks.. .and kimball got blindsided. they didn't need anyone fighting for them because there was zero talk of them moving out of the vol.
so I expect the next meeting to have a lot of Kimball pushing back.
But the question remains: WHO do they put in the TCAL? Is there a good option from a competitive equity standpoint? And not just FB, but all sports. If you are committed to moving west and tokay, one school is going to get bullied into the tcal. I say the only thing that would make sense is one of the Stockton schools... whichever has the highest competitive equity number across athletics.
so I expect the next meeting to have a lot of Kimball pushing back.
But the question remains: WHO do they put in the TCAL? Is there a good option from a competitive equity standpoint? And not just FB, but all sports. If you are committed to moving west and tokay, one school is going to get bullied into the tcal. I say the only thing that would make sense is one of the Stockton schools... whichever has the highest competitive equity number across athletics.
to be clear, kimball is D3 in pretty much every sport except football. And the smallest (non St Marys) school in the TCAL is tracy at 1800. Still rough, but a more accurate picture.
It's still a head scratcher. To go from D3 to competing with the largest school in the section seems a stretch. There are other schools in between who might make more sense.
Yes. That's right.
Rumor has it there is a possibility that some type of tiered structure with a 2 year cycle of promotion and relegation could finally be implemented. Proposals 2F and 2H are trying to address that:
I'm ever the eternal optimist, so I am still holding out hope for a system like this. It won't be perfect either, but it could more favorably address the discrepancy between football and other sports that causes so many re-alignment problems.
I think it allows schools to accurately place teams within a geographical grouping at their correct tier for individual athletic programs regardless of enrollments.
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