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SLV Forfiets 5 games

They were communicating from the press box/booth directly to the QB in the huddle. Claimed they have seen other teams use technology in this manner and assumed it was ok. Wonder who " the other teams " are? The mind can only wander and contemplate how much of an advantage this arrangement could produce.
 
Doesn't surprise me at all. These coaches see what goes on Saturday's and Sunday's and competing in an era where it's becoming easier and easier to emulate college and pros -- they try to do just that.

Many HS coaches out there are stepping on and over the line in an attempt to gain an advantage. I remember just a few seasons ago starting to see more and more teams reviewing video on their sidelines while the opposition didn't have the same technology at their disposal. That surely doesn't seem fair. And we didn't really see those types of things happening 10 years ago.

Since the sideline video has become more the norm, communication directly to the QB a la the NFL is the next logical step. They're already emulating the crazy sideline poster board images the NCAA uses.
 
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Doesn't surprise me at all. These coaches see what goes on Saturday's and Sunday's and competing in an era where it's becoming easier and easier to emulate college and pros -- they try to do just that.

Many HS coaches out there are stepping on and over the line in an attempt to gain an advantage. I remember just a few seasons ago starting to see more and more teams reviewing video on their sidelines while the opposition didn't have the same technology at their disposal. That surely doesn't seem fair. And we didn't really see those types of things happening 10 years ago.

Since the sideline video has become more the norm, communication directly to the QB a la the NFL is the next logical step. They're already emulating the crazy sideline poster board images the NCAA uses.

1. Using communication technology to communicate with the QB from the SL or PB is not legal in college (NCAA rules) or high schools (NCAA and NFHS).

2. The comment about "MANY" high school coaches stepping over the line is an opinion until backed by evidence. I know many, many coaches. And I have only seen a few cheaters. So, maybe don't slander an entire group of men who dedicate themselves to helping kids without evidence.

3. Video replay is allowed by NFHS rules. Any team that uses it is following the rules. The same as any other inherent advantage that is available to use (but may cost $$) such as having endzone video, or nice uniforms, or good coach headsets, or turf shoes, or gloves, or being able to afford good transportation, or good team meals, or anything else. Teams choose how to fund raise and how to spend. I get that not all communities are financially equal, but real life is not always fair. I guess your definition of fair is that every team is limited to the resources of the lowest common denominator? How far does that extend? So if one team in America does not have video replay, none should? Not a great argument.

4. We did see these disparities in football teams for many decades. They may not have been obvious to people sitting in the stands, but they were there. Just start with quality coaching. Then look at uniforms. And the gear (which you don't see under the uniforms, but the kids know the difference between good shoulder pads and old shoulder pads). Some teams even have multiple helmets per player (different colors of course). And weight lifting equipment. And booster club involvement. And the youth program. And the field. I am old enough to remember when football was played on grass. The first thing we always checked coming off the bus was the quality of the field. The point is that there has always been an imbalance between resources available to schools and sideline video replay is just one example. A team can get sideline video cheaper than they can buy a decent endzone camera setup

5. There is no 'logical next step' until it is allowed by the rules. I don't see QB communication in HS becoming a thing any time soon. In the NFL it is one-way communication (coach to QB), used between plays only, and the league cuts it off before the play starts. The NFL usage is not scale-able to high school. Posters used on the sideline is not analogous to in-helmet communication with the QB in any way.
 
Coaches know this is not allowed by rule. They screwed up and their players are now paying the price. Just like some area coaches who bent the rules and cried innocence, but were let go, they too need to go.

PS: "Many HS coaches out there are stepping on and over the line in an attempt to gain an advantage." Is this an assumption or fact? What is the evidence?
 
1. Using communication technology to communicate with the QB from the SL or PB is not legal in college (NCAA rules) or high schools (NCAA and NFHS).

2. The comment about "MANY" high school coaches stepping over the line is an opinion until backed by evidence. I know many, many coaches. And I have only seen a few cheaters. So, maybe don't slander an entire group of men who dedicate themselves to helping kids without evidence.

3. Video replay is allowed by NFHS rules. Any team that uses it is following the rules. The same as any other inherent advantage that is available to use (but may cost $$) such as having endzone video, or nice uniforms, or good coach headsets, or turf shoes, or gloves, or being able to afford good transportation, or good team meals, or anything else. Teams choose how to fund raise and how to spend. I get that not all communities are financially equal, but real life is not always fair. I guess your definition of fair is that every team is limited to the resources of the lowest common denominator? How far does that extend? So if one team in America does not have video replay, none should? Not a great argument.

4. We did see these disparities in football teams for many decades. They may not have been obvious to people sitting in the stands, but they were there. Just start with quality coaching. Then look at uniforms. And the gear (which you don't see under the uniforms, but the kids know the difference between good shoulder pads and old shoulder pads). Some teams even have multiple helmets per player (different colors of course). And weight lifting equipment. And booster club involvement. And the youth program. And the field. I am old enough to remember when football was played on grass. The first thing we always checked coming off the bus was the quality of the field. The point is that there has always been an imbalance between resources available to schools and sideline video replay is just one example. A team can get sideline video cheaper than they can buy a decent endzone camera setup

5. There is no 'logical next step' until it is allowed by the rules. I don't see QB communication in HS becoming a thing any time soon. In the NFL it is one-way communication (coach to QB), used between plays only, and the league cuts it off before the play starts. The NFL usage is not scale-able to high school. Posters used on the sideline is not analogous to in-helmet communication with the QB in any way.

High sports just aren’t fair; they never have been and they never will be. Some schools have more money and have nicer equipment, while others have to share equipment and don’t have a practice field. Some schools have so many kids try out that they can field a varsity, JV, and Frosh team and almost have “too many” kids at the varsity level, meanwhile my best friend was a HC at school that had such low turnout they had to fold their frosh AND JV teams and just field a varsity. And it’s not just money that causes unfair advantages; what about schools like Long Beach Poly or Grant that have huge black and Polynesian populations and just routinely field stacked teams as far as athletes go? Is it “fair” that they may have a backup defensive tackle that is a D1 caliber player while a school a few miles away has no D1 players at all?

This isn’t the NFL where everybody plays by the same rules and faces the same challenges. Some teams will almost always be good and while others have to have the stars perfectly align just to make the playoffs once every few years.
 
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I'm thinking a drone flying above the Defense, with multi-colored lights signaling the QB what audible he should call. Seriously SLV coaching staff, to be this desperate for an edge is just embarrassing.
 
I'm thinking a drone flying above the Defense, with multi-colored lights signaling the QB what audible he should call. Seriously SLV coaching staff, to be this desperate for an edge is just embarrassing.
I heard(2nd hand) that one of the opposing teams could hear the OC communicating with the QB through his headset. Problem is you can’t say anything but possibly this is how it came out. DLS headsets were tapped, I read it in their book. Either way the SLV coaches are about as smart as a 2 peckered Billygoat.......uh they knew.
 
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1. Using communication technology to communicate with the QB from the SL or PB is not legal in college (NCAA rules) or high schools (NCAA and NFHS).

I never stated that it was legal in the NCAA. I said that these HS coaches tend to try to emulate what they see at the levels above them.

2. The comment about "MANY" high school coaches stepping over the line is an opinion until backed by evidence. I know many, many coaches. And I have only seen a few cheaters. So, maybe don't slander an entire group of men who dedicate themselves to helping kids without evidence.

First of all, isn't most everything we say here -- unless explicitly stated as a fact -- an opinion?

Secondly, I purposely used the word 'many' and not 'most' or 'all'. If you don't believe 'many' is accurate or appropriate then we'll have to agree to disagree. But I'll also say that I feel you are naive on the subject.

IIRC, there are upwards of over 10,000 HS football programs across the country. You don't have to look any further than the recruiting/transferring that's been occurring for many years down in SoCal to know that the word 'many' isn't a big stretch.

Lastly, I've coached HS and youth off and on since 1990 and have witnessed or become aware of numerous instances of stepping over the line to gain an edge. Forgive me for not outing anybody and sharing my evidence. And having belonged to the fraternity of men and women dedicated to helping kids, forgive me if I feel entitled to speak on the subject and for not feeling bad for stating truth as I see it.

3. Video replay is allowed by NFHS rules. Any team that uses it is following the rules. The same as any other inherent advantage that is available to use (but may cost $$) such as having endzone video, or nice uniforms, or good coach headsets, or turf shoes, or gloves, or being able to afford good transportation, or good team meals, or anything else.

Agreed. I never said it was against the rules. That, to me, would be an example of stepping on the line, not over it. I personally wouldn't feel the need to use it since most of the competition wouldn't have it and wouldn't feel pressed to use it until it became more the norm. But obviously other coaches feel the need to take advantage of every advantage they can get. More power to them. While I don't consider it fair, it's certainly not illegal at this time.

So if one team in America does not have video replay, none should? Not a great argument.

Well, first of all, I didn't make that argument. But if I had, I don't think you can prove that it's a poor argument. But I'm not going to bother going down that road.

4. We did see these disparities in football teams for many decades. They may not have been obvious to people sitting in the stands, but they were there. Just start with quality coaching. Then look at uniforms. And the gear (which you don't see under the uniforms, but the kids know the difference between good shoulder pads and old shoulder pads). Some teams even have multiple helmets per player (different colors of course).

Not one of these things beyond coaching give a team a distinct competitive advantage over another. Better, newer gear would be marginal at best, and the alternate unis are purely aesthetic. So who cares? Grant Union never lost to a rich private/public school because that team had newer and fancier gear.

Quality coaching falls under the same category as superior talent/athletes. Personal skill and talent level are acceptable advantages in any competition. However, typically speaking, things that are deemed to provide a distinct or even unmeasured competitive advantage beyond ones own skill/talent level tend to not be permitted unless all parties involved have access equally.

For example, in the NFL, when one teams communication system goes down, the opposition is no longer permitted to use it because it provides a distinct competitive advantage. I'd argue the use of video on sidelines is no different, but I digress.

5. There is no 'logical next step' until it is allowed by the rules. I don't see QB communication in HS becoming a thing any time soon.

I don't either. The phrasing was an attempt at sarcasm.

Posters used on the sideline is not analogous to in-helmet communication with the QB in any way.

Yes, it most certainly is in the way that I used it. They are both examples of a tactics that HS staffs are emulating -- as evidenced by the article that was posted.
 
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I never stated that it was legal in the NCAA. I said that these HS coaches tend to try to emulate what they see at the levels above them.
And feedback1 was pointing out that nobody in the NCAA does it, so was simply clarifying only "level above" is the NFL.

First of all, isn't most everything we say here -- unless explicitly stated as a fact -- an opinion?
Exactly, just an opinion. And some opinions are not agreed upon by self-anointed experts and considered pure speculation.

Lastly, I've coached HS and youth off and on since 1990 and have witnessed or become aware of numerous instances of stepping over the line to gain an edge. Forgive me for not outing anybody and sharing my evidence.
Perhaps you should not accuse if you are not willing to provide evidence? Otherwise, this is pure speculation. Unless you did the right thing and reported the offenders, that is how things should work. Just my opinion.

Not one of these things beyond coaching give a team a distinct competitive advantage over another. Better, newer gear would be marginal at best, and the alternate unis are purely aesthetic. So who cares? Grant Union never lost to a rich private/public school because that team had newer and fancier gear.
In the age of transfers and out of district attendance, everything matters in attracting talent. Facilities are also a large draw. Just an opinion, well actually speculation.
 
And feedback1 was pointing out that nobody in the NCAA does it, so was simply clarifying only "level above" is the NFL.

Exactly. High Schools do not emulate what they see in the NFL. One coaching staff cheating is not a sign of things to come. But maybe I am missing something. I am waiting for examples - care to share any? Or do you just want to say #$%^ without anything to back it up?

Secondly, I purposely used the word 'many' and not 'most' or 'all'. If you don't believe 'many' is accurate or appropriate then we'll have to agree to disagree. But I'll also say that I feel you are naive on the subject.

Or maybe you don't have any evidence to back-up your slander? But isn't that our culture today? Accusation = Truth. This crap about "I know I am making an outrageous accusation, but I won't provide any evidence, and you should just believe me" is GARBAGE.

IYou don't have to look any further than the recruiting/transferring that's been occurring for many years down in SoCal to know that the word 'many' isn't a big stretch.

Take the most recent and egregious example of 'legal' transfers and then insinuate that it is illegal (or immoral) and use it as a brush to paint to the entire high school coaching community is dishonest and ugly.

I personally wouldn't feel the need to use it since most of the competition wouldn't have it and wouldn't feel pressed to use it until it became more the norm. But obviously other coaches feel the need to take advantage of every advantage they can get. More power to them. While I don't consider it fair, it's certainly not illegal at this time.

Claim the moral high-ground. Another great tactic. IT IS LEGAL. Your take is just social justice posturing and would put your team at a competitive disadvantage vs. teams that do have it. High school football is COMPETITIVE. It is not youth sports.

Well, first of all, I didn't make that argument. But if I had, I don't think you can prove that it's a poor argument. But I'm not going to bother going down that road.

It's easy. Extend this argument and see where you land. "No one can use _______ because EVERYONE has to have it." Fill in the blank with whatever and you will find that there is ALWAYS a team at a disadvantage. But if you like communist arguments, to each his own.

Yes, it most certainly is in the way that I used it. They are both examples of a tactics that HS staffs are emulating -- as evidenced by the article that was posted.

NO. A poster board with a static image can convey one piece of information. For example, most teams that use poster boards use them for formations. A formation can easily be a hand-signal. I have heard of teams that use posters for snap counts, and some for play calling. Both can be easily duplicated with hand signals. In-helmet communication is something else entirely. If you can talk 'at' the QB, you can say things like "run formation/play. Remember to look the FS to the field, then look X to U to F. And if the Mike is to boundary, you have the TE on the seam alert." Try that with a poster. But maybe you are using different poster boards.

The best innovation in football is not happening at the NFL. It happens at the college level. And there is a community of coaches that readily share their information. Of course, high schools emulate what they see in college. That is called 'getting better'. But to be fair, going to visit a college coaching staff or attending a coaching clinic is not available to every coaching staff. So maybe no one should do it.
 
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