SRV/C-let

[personalogic]

Last night's SRV/C-let game was more interesting than the final score (89-65 C-let) would suggest. More for the preview of next year than for the game itself.

SRV actually had a small lead after the first quarter. Strong outside shooting, plus junior point guard Paige Gerhart getting to the rim at will. Both those factors continued throughout the game.

However, the continuous feeds to C-let post, Ali Bamberger, were too debilitating. SRV had no answer for her size and strength. And when C-let guards Miller and Howie started to heat up, there was no stopping the spread in point differential.

But here's the thing. C-let has 6 seniors, who provided virtually all the size and all the minutes last night. Coach Morris kept them on the floor, even with a 20 point lead in the fourth, only pulling them when Coach Cristiano cleared his bench with less than two minutes to go. Kind of an indication that C-let doesn't place much faith in its underclassmen.

Not to say there's not talent there. I would have liked to see junior guards Holloway and Blackard get more floor time. But where's the size and outside shooting for next year? The C-let junior varsity team barely pulled out a 2 point win over SRV in the earlier match, and I didn't see anything there that looked ready for prime time.

SRV, Dublin, and Cal have a lot of underclassmen, even frosh, making significant contributions this season. Might be some long awaited wins on their horizons. Unless C-let has a miracle incoming class and/or a couple of big transfers lined up, I think this may be their last elite season for awhile.

 

[JumphookK]

I was at the game too and disregard the score, it was a close game until the 4th. A couple of observations.

1 It wasn’t Carondelets size that made the difference, it was 1 player whose size made the difference. Other than Bamberger, SRV shut down the other Carondelet bigs. Bamberger has 1 move, 1 skill. Post/catch/lay in. And she has perfected it., she cannot shoot, she cannot drive but she can post. SRV didn’t have the muscle to stop it.
2. Without the guards on Carondelet catching fire from 3 after a really slow start, I’m not sure Carondelet wins this game. The shots were created from the help in the post which left shooters open. Well executed Carondelet.
3. SRV can play. I was really impressed and their bench is deep with freshman. I counted 6. . I haven’t seen SRV until last night And I was very impressed with what I did see. I understand their top scorer was out with the flu most of the game too.
4. An opinion.. As has become common with Carondelet teams for the past years, the elbows and shoving were out in force last night. It can’t be tolerated and it needs to be called . My teams have experienced it in our games and I watched SRV get hit repeatedly with flying elbows that were dangerous to the girls. If coaches and parents don’t stop this nonsense by Carondelet, and any team for that matter, a serious injury will be the result.

Prediction ( drum roll please) Carondelet and Heritage will meet in the NCS finals. Carondelet is the favorite and for good reason, they are really good. But, if you don’t have to help off much and can guard shooters , It will not be a surprise or an upset if Heritage wins.

 

[dsm405]

No doubt SRV plays an exciting style of basketball similar to other guard driven teams in the area. If they want to make some noise next year would advise they play a more challenging schedule and risk some losses rather than playing a SOS of 10, being somewhat shocked there are other teams that can shoot the three, and not being ready for the physicality in big girl basketball.

 

[personalogic]

I was at the game too and disregard the score, it was a close game until the 4th. A couple of observations.

1 It wasn’t Carondelets size that made the difference, it was 1 player whose size made the difference. Other than Bamberger, SRV shut down the other Carondelet bigs. Bamberger has 1 move, 1 skill. Post/catch/lay in. And she has perfected it., she cannot shoot, she cannot drive but she can post. SRV didn’t have the muscle to stop it.
2. Without the guards on Carondelet catching fire from 3 after a really slow start, I’m not sure Carondelet wins this game. The shots were created from the help in the post which left shooters open. Well executed Carondelet.
3. SRV can play. I was really impressed and their bench is deep with freshman. I counted 6. . I haven’t seen SRV until last night And I was very impressed with what I did see. I understand their top scorer was out with the flu most of the game too.
4. An opinion.. As has become common with Carondelet teams for the past years, the elbows and shoving were out in force last night. It can’t be tolerated and it needs to be called . My teams have experienced it in our games and I watched SRV get hit repeatedly with flying elbows that were dangerous to the girls. If coaches and parents don’t stop this nonsense by Carondelet, and any team for that matter, a serious injury will be the result.

Prediction ( drum roll please) Carondelet and Heritage will meet in the NCS finals. Carondelet is the favorite and for good reason, they are really good. But, if you don’t have to help off much and can guard shooters , It will not be a surprise or an upset if Heritage wins.

Agree with all your amendments to my review. Except there are only 5 frosh. To supplement your supplement ..

Yeah, Bayston could barely move. Took only three shots and made none. Zero points from your top scorer is tough.

Yeah, C-let got a little out of hand, possibly as a result of losing the first quarter. One intentional foul call, one elbow bloodying a nose, an admonition to the C-let parents at half time by the SRV AD (at the request of the referees) to cool their jets (they didn't).

 

[Girlsbballfan7]

I took my Daughter to this game. We have gone to a few games this year (Cal High, Miramonte, Monte Vista) but this was the first Carondelet or SR game.

This was an amazing game and the score does not reflect the level of competition. San Ramon was right there for the majority of the contest and plays a very fun style of basketball. Their point guard is awesome and makes everything go. She can score anytime she wants around the rim. I was incredibly impressed with carondelet and their offensive balance. SR threw the kitchen sink at their big girl and had no answer. Constantly stepping through double teams of smaller girls and their shooters made almost everything.

I really enjoyed this game and the heart of the SR girls fighting against a team twice their size. Im shocked to hear the girls off the bench are all freshman. Highly recommend watching these girls play.
It was nice to see a girls basketball game have that much support. I hope this site is still operating in a few years as it is a great way to connect girls basketball.

 

[straightline50]

I was at the game too and disregard the score, it was a close game until the 4th. A couple of observations.

1 It wasn’t Carondelets size that made the difference, it was 1 player whose size made the difference. Other than Bamberger, SRV shut down the other Carondelet bigs. Bamberger has 1 move, 1 skill. Post/catch/lay in. And she has perfected it., she cannot shoot, she cannot drive but she can post. SRV didn’t have the muscle to stop it.
2. Without the guards on Carondelet catching fire from 3 after a really slow start, I’m not sure Carondelet wins this game. The shots were created from the help in the post which left shooters open. Well executed Carondelet.
3. SRV can play. I was really impressed and their bench is deep with freshman. I counted 6. . I haven’t seen SRV until last night And I was very impressed with what I did see. I understand their top scorer was out with the flu most of the game too.
4. An opinion.. As has become common with Carondelet teams for the past years, the elbows and shoving were out in force last night. It can’t be tolerated and it needs to be called . My teams have experienced it in our games and I watched SRV get hit repeatedly with flying elbows that were dangerous to the girls. If coaches and parents don’t stop this nonsense by Carondelet, and any team for that matter, a serious injury will be the result.

Prediction ( drum roll please) Carondelet and Heritage will meet in the NCS finals. Carondelet is the favorite and for good reason, they are really good. But, if you don’t have to help off much and can guard shooters , It will not be a surprise or an upset if Heritage wins.

So you don't like Carondelet. I was reading everything and buying in until the "Too physical" "Elbow throwing" You only get hit in the mouth with an elbow when your mouth is too close to the elbow. Don't want an elbow get away and go play defense.

My own commentary aside, you are correct Carondelet is in trouble and SRV is the team on the rise. But let's not start with the flu excuse. Every team has a kid with the flue or cold right now.

 

[straightline50]

Agree with all your amendments to my review. Except there are only 5 frosh. To supplement your supplement ..

Yeah, Bayston could barely move. Took only three shots and made none. Zero points from your top scorer is tough.

Yeah, C-let got a little out of hand, possibly as a result of losing the first quarter. One intentional foul call, one elbow bloodying a nose, an admonition to the C-let parents at half time by the SRV AD (at the request of the referees) to cool their jets (they didn't).

Toughen up buttercup!

 

[Paytc]

I was at the game too and disregard the score, it was a close game until the 4th. A couple of observations.

1 It wasn’t Carondelets size that made the difference, it was 1 player whose size made the difference. Other than Bamberger, SRV shut down the other Carondelet bigs. Bamberger has 1 move, 1 skill. Post/catch/lay in. And she has perfected it., she cannot shoot, she cannot drive but she can post. SRV didn’t have the muscle to stop it.
2. Without the guards on Carondelet catching fire from 3 after a really slow start, I’m not sure Carondelet wins this game. The shots were created from the help in the post which left shooters open. Well executed Carondelet.
3. SRV can play. I was really impressed and their bench is deep with freshman. I counted 6. . I haven’t seen SRV until last night And I was very impressed with what I did see. I understand their top scorer was out with the flu most of the game too.
4. An opinion.. As has become common with Carondelet teams for the past years, the elbows and shoving were out in force last night. It can’t be tolerated and it needs to be called . My teams have experienced it in our games and I watched SRV get hit repeatedly with flying elbows that were dangerous to the girls. If coaches and parents don’t stop this nonsense by Carondelet, and any team for that matter, a serious injury will be the result.

Prediction ( drum roll please) Carondelet and Heritage will meet in the NCS finals. Carondelet is the favorite and for good reason, they are really good. But, if you don’t have to help off much and can guard shooters , It will not be a surprise or an upset if Heritage wins.

"Without the guards on Carondelet catching fire from 3 after a really slow start, I’m not sure Carondelet wins this game.
The shots were created from the help in the post which left shooters open. Well executed Carondelet.", JumphookK

That is what i've been wanting to see from Clet the past 3 or 4 seasons. Because if you look at the teams that have been winning Norcal championships and state championships a key denominator has been unselfish team play and good ball movement. That's what Clovis west used, Pinewood has always used, Mitty, and just about every other successful team in the state. I really can't recall one team that relied almost exclusively on 1 or 2 players and were able to win a championship. Even Kobe and Jordan needed help to win a championship, not a scoring title. What has been/ is the goal? Perhaps Clet has finally figured out what they can do when teams have to pick their poison and not pick predictability as the weapon other teams build their game play around to stop them in tough games and or the post season.

If Clet and Heritage both meet again for the 3rd time straight in the NCS championship it won't be easy for either team to win. They are both good teams. And it is not easy to beat a good team 3 times straight. Heritage has size inside to match with Clet, and Sweeney won't be as easy to slow down in her final season. So smart "team" play and a balanced attack IMO is the only way Clet will beat them for the 3rd time (if they both make it to the championship).

As far as next season if Clet was smart they would focus on one season at a time. And worry about next season (beating Cal, Dublin, SRV or not, next season) and the seasons after when they come closer into play. That said I think the 5 or 6 return players they have returning and the young class under neath them and/ or any transfers will be aiming for the same thing next season as they are this season. And that is win 20 + games, hopefully return to NCS championship, and play well in the post season's final tournament. Whether that is the Open or Division 1. Many thought Clet was finished when Natalie Romeo, Hanna Huffman, and their WNBA player Jayne Appel graduated. But they have managed to still reload with enough talent and size to stay in the conversation. And my guess is they will continue to stay relevant. Congratulations Clet !

 

[personalogic]

"Without the guards on Carondelet catching fire from 3 after a really slow start, I’m not sure Carondelet wins this game.
The shots were created from the help in the post which left shooters open. Well executed Carondelet.", JumphookK

That is what i've been wanting to see from Clet the past 3 or 4 seasons. Because if you look at the teams that have been winning Norcal championships and state championships a key denominator has been unselfish team play and good ball movement. That's what Clovis west used, Pinewood has always used, Mitty, and just about every other successful team in the state. I really can't recall one team that relied almost exclusively on 1 or 2 players and were able to win a championship. Even Kobe and Jordan needed help to win a championship, not a scoring title. What has been/ is the goal? Perhaps Clet has finally figured out what they can do when teams have to pick their poison and not pick predictability as the weapon other teams build their game play around to stop them in tough games and or the post season.

If Clet and Heritage both meet again for the 3rd time straight in the NCS championship it won't be easy for either team to win. They are both good teams. And it is not easy to beat a good team 3 times straight. Heritage has size inside to match with Clet, and Sweeney won't be as easy to slow down in her final season. So smart "team" play and a balanced attack IMO is the only way Clet will beat them for the 3rd time (if they both make it to the championship).

As far as next season if Clet was smart they would focus on one season at a time. And worry about next season (beating Cal, Dublin, SRV or not, next season) and the seasons after when they come closer into play. That said I think the 5 or 6 return players they have returning and the young class under neath them and/ or any transfers will be aiming for the same thing next season as they are this season. And that is win 20 + games, hopefully return to NCS championship, and play well in the post season's final tournament. Whether that is the Open or Division 1. Many thought Clet was finished when Natalie Romeo, Hanna Huffman, and their WNBA player Jayne Appel graduated. But they have managed to still reload with enough talent and size to stay in the conversation. And my guess is they will continue to stay relevant. Congratulations Clet !

 

[personalogic]

I am not sure C-let has the potential to re-load, at least to elite (Open Division) status. It takes D1 talent to draw D1 talent. In other words, the top players want to go where they will play with their peers, compete at a high level, and be seen by college coaches in the stands.

Right now there are no non-seniors who you'd consider D1 magnets. Heck, the coach doesn't even want to play them any more than he has to. So why would a current blue chip 8th grader even consider paying the money and adding some commute time?

Another factor is the increasingly lax rules and enforcement of rules regarding transfers and recruitment. When was the last time NCS denied a high profile transfer? Private schools being able to draw from an unlimited geographical area is nowhere near as important as it used to be.

Finally, when you have quality public school programs to choose from, why not do so? Miramonte is the key example right now. Several players on their current roster considered C-let but decided against it. With other nearby schools like SRV, Dublin and Cal playing pretty good ball, the argument for C-let is just going to get harder.

I do hear talk about C-let building a new gym and the new coach and new AD being committed to ramping up the program. Maybe they will succeed in building another Mitty machine. Not sure why they would want to, but that's another discussion.

We'll see.

 

[Paytc]

I am not sure C-let has the potential to re-load, at least to elite (Open Division) status. It takes D1 talent to draw D1 talent. In other words, the top players want to go where they will play with their peers, compete at a high level, and be seen by college coaches in the stands.

Right now there are no non-seniors who you'd consider D1 magnets. Heck, the coach doesn't even want to play them any more than he has to. So why would a current blue chip 8th grader even consider paying the money and adding some commute time?

Another factor is the increasingly lax rules and enforcement of rules regarding transfers and recruitment. When was the last time NCS denied a high profile transfer? Private schools being able to draw from an unlimited geographical area is nowhere near as important as it used to be.

Finally, when you have quality public school programs to choose from, why not do so? Miramonte is the key example right now. Several players on their current roster considered C-let but decided against it. With other nearby schools like SRV, Dublin and Cal playing pretty good ball, the argument for C-let is just going to get harder.

I do hear talk about C-let building a new gym and the new coach and new AD being committed to ramping up the program. Maybe they will succeed in building another Mitty machine. Not sure why they would want to, but that's another discussion.

We'll see.

It's hard to argue many of your points. But with regard to what players the current coaching staff will play I think there has been a game or so ( I was at one in particular) where they reached deep into the bench and had return players like (Holloway who was still rounding back into shape) Annie and Jayme on the floor during crunch time. While starters Brown, Howie, and Miller sat. They even played their 6ft freshman off and on. I think they are willing to roll with the hot hands or best matchups.

Going back to what Clet will have as I pointed out regardless to whether or not they will or will not have or attact so call D1 players, their aim shouldn't change in the process of obtaining them. They should still aim for winning 20 games and doing well in the NCS and post season tournament whether its the Open or Division 1 or 2.

I agree MM and a few others grabbed a few players that considered Clet and that most likely will continue to happen. But they still have De La Salle next door. Many of the De La Salle boys have sisters who will come in to Carondelet with them. And Clet will still be able to pull from a far reaching radius. Sure they will need to win and show a commitment to winning at a high level to attract many of the elite players you're thinking of. My main point is it's not like they have been winning multiple Nike TOC's or multiple state championships. No they haven't even set the bar high enough to aim at those things. But winning league, winning 20 games, and going to the NCS championship will IMO continue to be enough within a reasonable reach that they may continue to be relevant enough to attract so call D1 players and enough size to remain one of the East Bay and Norcal worthy contenders. Since I've been watching girls hoops in Norcal closely, I really have only seen one team that was really all that head and shoulders over everyone else. And they got upset in the post season. Maybe two teams as BOD was pretty good several years back when they had A.T. her freshman season. But regardless to what other teams have or Clet doesn't have with good to fair coaching the level of competition won't be all that much higher than Clet will be able to reach is another of my points.

And Annie B. is as good an outside shooter as anyone on the team this season and she returns. I'm sure they will find a couple more outside shooters, as the school has a history of want to be leading the league scorers.

 

[colhenrylives]

Regarding the issue of high-quality girls' public school programs in NorCal: There are very, very few. In CCS, there isn't a single public program that's worthy of the section's Open Division bracket this year. None is even close if you look at the situation objectively. There is no West Bay version of Miramonte, a year-in, year-out, year-round public program that mimics the best private/parochials. CCS private/parochials have captured 30 state titles; CCS publics have one (Burlingame 1988). In fact, no CCS public has even played for a CIF crown over the last 30 years; CCS is a public school desert on the female hoops side when you consider regional or state playoff success. The relentless competition for players coming from the WBAL (Menlo School, Woodside Priory, Eastside Prep, Pinewood, SHP, etc.) and WCAL (SHC, St. Ignatius, Valley Christian, Presentation, St. Francis and, oops, almost forgot, Mitty) is overwhelming. Just shoot me.

 

[mkbgdns]

Just shoot me.

Colonel, I'm concerned. have you considered Catholicism as an alternative?

 

[ClayK]

Regarding the issue of high-quality girls' public school programs in NorCal: There are very, very few. In CCS, there isn't a single public program that's worthy of the section's Open Division bracket this year. None is even close if you look at the situation objectively. There is no West Bay version of Miramonte, a year-in, year-out, year-round public program that mimics the best private/parochials. CCS private/parochials have captured 30 state titles; CCS publics have one (Burlingame 1988). In fact, no CCS public has even played for a CIF crown over the last 30 years; CCS is a public school desert on the female hoops side when you consider regional or state playoff success. The relentless competition for players coming from the WBAL (Menlo School, Woodside Priory, Eastside Prep, Pinewood, SHP, etc.) and WCAL (SHC, St. Ignatius, Valley Christian, Presentation, St. Francis and, oops, almost forgot, Mitty) is overwhelming. Just shoot me.

One of the issues in the East Bay is that the privates/parochials do well in areas where the public schools aren't that good academically. Is that an issue in CCS?

 

[straightline50]

It's hard to argue many of your points. But with regard to what players the current coaching staff will play I think there has been a game or so ( I was at one in particular) where they reached deep into the bench and had return players like (Holloway who was still rounding back into shape) Annie and Jayme on the floor during crunch time. While starters Brown, Howie, and Miller sat. They even played their 6ft freshman off and on. I think they are willing to roll with the hot hands or best matchups.

Going back to what Clet will have as I pointed out regardless to whether or not they will or will not have or attact so call D1 players, their aim shouldn't change in the process of obtaining them. They should still aim for winning 20 games and doing well in the NCS and post season tournament whether its the Open or Division 1 or 2.

I agree MM and a few others grabbed a few players that considered Clet and that most likely will continue to happen. But they still have De La Salle next door. Many of the De La Salle boys have sisters who will come in to Carondelet with them. And Clet will still be able to pull from a far reaching radius. Sure they will need to win and show a commitment to winning at a high level to attract many of the elite players you're thinking of. My main point is it's not like they have been winning multiple Nike TOC's or multiple state championships. No they haven't even set the bar high enough to aim at those things. But winning league, winning 20 games, and going to the NCS championship will IMO continue to be enough within a reasonable reach that they may continue to be relevant enough to attract so call D1 players and enough size to remain one of the East Bay and Norcal worthy contenders. Since I've been watching girls hoops in Norcal closely, I really have only seen one team that was really all that head and shoulders over everyone else. And they got upset in the post season. Maybe two teams as BOD was pretty good several years back when they had A.T. her freshman season. But regardless to what other teams have or Clet doesn't have with good to fair coaching the level of competition won't be all that much higher than Clet will be able to reach is another of my points.

And Annie B. is as good an outside shooter as anyone on the team this season and she returns. I'm sure they will find a couple more outside shooters, as the school has a history of want to be leading the league scorers.

False. As Bill Parcels you can't just go down to Texaco and pick up a couple shooters. Carondelet is in big trouble moving forward. Think of it this way, remove Bamberger and they are likely losing to Cal, SRV and Dublin today. Now, take five more seasoned veterans with her and how far is the tumble? I don't know Annie B but there is not a shooter on the team like Erica Miller.

 

[straightline50]

Colonel, I'm concerned. have you considered Catholicism as an alternative?

He should. MM and Clovis West are really the only public schools (outside of so cal) that have sustained success of a decade plus. Private schools is where the power is and where it will continue to be for the long term.

 

[colhenrylives]

One of the issues in the East Bay is that the privates/parochials do well in areas where the public schools aren't that good academically. Is that an issue in CCS?

No. Many of the Bay Area's best academic publics are located in Silicon Valley, from Mills/Burlingame/Aragon in the north to Palo Alto/Gunn/Cupertino in the south. There are scads of outstanding public schools in CCS.

 

[colhenrylives]

Colonel, I'm concerned. have you considered Catholicism as an alternative?

I remain agnostic in all matters involving hoops.

 

[mkbgdns]

I realize that on this board the sun rises and sets on girls basketball, but if your local public has its' academics in order, your daughter can play there and still play basketball. there's a reason why CCS has divisions other than Open. if you send your daughter to high school to play ball, and she buys it, you're doing her a great disservice. in a full high school experience, one team sport will be peanuts. and the quality of that small slice may be unrelated to the team's win/loss record.

 

[straightline50]

I realize that on this board the sun rises and sets on girls basketball, but if your local public has its' academics in order, your daughter can play there and still play basketball. there's a reason why CCS has divisions other than Open. if you send your daughter to high school to play ball, and she buys it, you're doing her a great disservice. in a full high school experience, one team sport will be peanuts. and the quality of that small slice may be unrelated to the team's win/loss record.

You can also get to experience two or three coaches during your 4 year public school tenure

 

[Paytc]

False. As Bill Parcels you can't just go down to Texaco and pick up a couple shooters. Carondelet is in big trouble moving forward. Think of it this way, remove Bamberger and they are likely losing to Cal, SRV and Dublin today. Now, take five more seasoned veterans with her and how far is the tumble? I don't know Annie B but there is not a shooter on the team like Erica Miller.

They said the same thing when Jayne Appel graduated. We will see if the boat completely sinks or stays afloat. They will have to reload and re focus just as they had to do in the past. And there is no reason to think they can't continue to aim for 20 game win seasons, a strong run at the NCS, and success in the post season tournament. So the name on the front of the jersey(s) will still read Carondelet regardless to the name(s) that might be temporarily written on the back. I am a Erica Miller fan. But Annie Bonderer can spot up and shoot the ball just as well in my opinion. Just as in the pros the 3 point shots will average what they average. And it's about 20-40% in high school regardless to whose shooting. Teams will have to find players willing and able to step up when players before them graduate. And based on the past Clet must continue to do the same regardless of how big the individual names are. They might be forced to play better "team" ball. Much continued success to them.

 

[colhenrylives]

You can also get to experience two or three coaches during your 4 year public school tenure

And a complete lack of interest on the part of the administration, student body, alumni and donors, if any.

 

[straightline50]

They said the same thing when Jayne Appel graduated. We will see if the boat completely sinks or stays afloat. They will have to reload and re focus just as they had to do in the past. And there is no reason to think they can't continue to aim for 20 game win seasons, a strong run at the NCS, and success in the post season tournament. So the name on the front of the jersey(s) will still read Carondelet regardless to the name(s) that might be temporarily written on the back. I am a Erica Miller fan. But Annie can spot up and shoot the ball just as well in my opinion. Just as in the pros the 3 point shots will average what they average. And it's about 20-40% in high school regardless to whose shooting. Teams will have to find players willing and able to step up when players before them graduate. And based on the past Clet must continue to do the same regardless of how big the individual names are. Much continued success to them.

Where was it written that they would drop off?

 

[ClayK]

So I checked ...

In Jayne Appel's senior year, 2006, Carondelet went 29-4 and lost in the state title game. Four other seniors graduated along with Appel, and my vague recollection of those names suggests Ashlee Ford was the best other player.

In the next year, Carondelet went 22-7, going 8-5 outside of their league and losing to Pinole Valley 58-18 in what appears to be the NCS final.

Appel, of course, was a transcendent high school player who went on to play in the WNBA and make the U.S. National team, but it seems to me her supporting cast wasn't quite as strong as Ali Bamberger's. So let's say the dropoff is similar.

Obviously, 22-7 is not a bad season at all, but remember, Carondelet is no longer in a league, and so finding those 14 wins that came from league play will be a bit harder. Carondelet does play every EBAL team at least once (and presumably could play the teams again if it wanted to) but as noted, Cal High and San Ramon are going to be tough outs.

At the same time, not a lot of mediocre schools will want to schedule Carondelet because of the reputation, so finding games that are as winnable as those 2007 league games against Ygnacio Valley will be hard to find.

Assuming the coach and AD return, with good scheduling and some continuity, a 20-win season would seem to be in reach, and of course some quality recruiting could upgrade the roster quickly. Still, 20 wins and a win at NorCals would seem to qualify as a successful 2019-2020 season at Carondelet, which is pretty clearly a step back. And of course, it's possible that a couple injuries and some bad luck could drop that to 15 wins and an early exit in NCS.

It's going to be an interesting season on Winton Avenue, no doubt, starting when we see the schedule.

 

[Paytc]

Where was it written that they would drop off?

Where was it written.... where should I begin.....

I could be wrong but it came off like the whole purpose of this thread was to point out the fact that Clet would suffer as a program next season and the years that follow it. Here are just a few of the comments.....

"Unless C-let has a miracle incoming class and/or a couple of big transfers lined up, I think this may be their last elite season for awhile.", personalogic

"you are correct Carondelet is in trouble and SRV is the team on the rise.", straightline50

"I am not sure C-let has the potential to re-load, at least to elite (Open Division) status. It takes D1 talent to draw D1 talent. In other words, the top players want to go where they will play with their peers, compete at a high level, and be seen by college coaches in the stands.", personalogic

"Carondelet is in big trouble moving forward.Think of it this way, remove Bamberger and they are likely losing to Cal, SRV and Dublin today. Now, take five more seasoned veterans with her and how far is the tumble?", straightline50


And that is just a few of the comments on this particlear thread. I've noticed others also who have made comments that suggest there would be a significant drop off at Clet after this group of 6 seniors graduate.

Will they go thru a few ups and downs in years to follow? Yes I am sure they will. But I think they will still aim at winning 20 games, a good showing in the NCS. Based on the past history Clet has typically had trouble winning in the post season beyond the NCS. Hopefully eventually they find a way to continue to improve and push the bar.

 

[Paytc]

So I checked ...

In Jayne Appel's senior year, 2006, Carondelet went 29-4 and lost in the state title game. Four other seniors graduated along with Appel, and my vague recollection of those names suggests Ashlee Ford was the best other player.

In the next year, Carondelet went 22-7, going 8-5 outside of their league and losing to Pinole Valley 58-18 in what appears to be the NCS final.

Appel, of course, was a transcendent high school player who went on to play in the WNBA and make the U.S. National team, but it seems to me her supporting cast wasn't quite as strong as Ali Bamberger's. So let's say the dropoff is similar.

Obviously, 22-7 is not a bad season at all, but remember, Carondelet is no longer in a league, and so finding those 14 wins that came from league play will be a bit harder. Carondelet does play every EBAL team at least once (and presumably could play the teams again if it wanted to) but as noted, Cal High and San Ramon are going to be tough outs.

At the same time, not a lot of mediocre schools will want to schedule Carondelet because of the reputation, so finding games that are as winnable as those 2007 league games against Ygnacio Valley will be hard to find.

Assuming the coach and AD return, with good scheduling and some continuity, a 20-win season would seem to be in reach, and of course some quality recruiting could upgrade the roster quickly. Still, 20 wins and a win at NorCals would seem to qualify as a successful 2019-2020 season at Carondelet, which is pretty clearly a step back. And of course, it's possible that a couple injuries and some bad luck could drop that to 15 wins and an early exit in NCS.

It's going to be an interesting season on Winton Avenue, no doubt, starting when we see the schedule.

I have never said Clet would definitely win 20 games every season. That IMO is just a target they should aim for. Along with continuing to play well in the NCS. But like every other team/program they will have to deal with the ebb and flows. I just have never been one to just write people off, especially children. Best wishes to the players who return next season at all schools to include Carondelet.

We have to wait and see what type of schedule the team has next season and just what the final roster turns out to be to really have a better idea of what the team will be able to accomplish. I personally think it is fair to say some coaches find a way to do more with less than some other coaches are able to. We don't know what the present coaches will be able to do based on a set of tougher challenges. They may exceed expectations, live up to them, or under achieve in the years to come.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

I have never said Clet would definitely win 20 games every season. That IMO is just a target they should aim for. Along with continuing to play well in the NCS. But like every other team/program they will have to deal with the ebb and flows. I just have never been one to just write people off especially children. Best wishes to the players who return next season at all schools to include Carondelet.

I could have sworn that you previously said Carondelet should set their goals higher than just winning 20 games and doing well in NCS playoffs. You said the program should be setting its sites on competing for state championships. Wasn't that what you said?

 

[Paytc]

I could have sworn that you previously said Carondelet should set their goals higher than just winning 20 games and doing well in NCS playoffs. You said the program should be setting its sites on competing for state championships. Wasn't that what you said?

When they have a realistic chance to do that (which they have had for the past 10-30 years) then that is "exactly" what I said.

You don't always hit what you aim at, but should aim high regardless within reason.

You make goals and set standards of expectation as any other good program does. And you adjust the goals and standards at times year to year. I'm sure Mitty, Pinewood, SMS, and Mater Dei don't just stumble into winning as often as they do by accident. Mitty may have thought this season with Haley Jones as a senior was their best season to win state and a national #1 ranking. They may have scheduled and tweeked their goals and expectations accordingly. Even over achievers like MM and ESCP I'm sure are aiming at some type of goal each season. And they don't have as large a pooling base to work from as Clet has had the past 30 or so seasons.

 

[personalogic]

Where was it written.... where should I begin.....

I could be wrong but it came off like the whole purpose of this thread was to point out the fact that Clet would suffer as a program next season and the years that follow it. Here are just a few of the comments.....

"Unless C-let has a miracle incoming class and/or a couple of big transfers lined up, I think this may be their last elite season for awhile.", personalogic

"you are correct Carondelet is in trouble and SRV is the team on the rise.", straightline50

"I am not sure C-let has the potential to re-load, at least to elite (Open Division) status. It takes D1 talent to draw D1 talent. In other words, the top players want to go where they will play with their peers, compete at a high level, and be seen by college coaches in the stands.", personalogic

"Carondelet is in big trouble moving forward.Think of it this way, remove Bamberger and they are likely losing to Cal, SRV and Dublin today. Now, take five more seasoned veterans with her and how far is the tumble?", straightline50


And that is just a few of the comments on this particlear thread. I've noticed others also who have made comments that suggest there would be a significant drop off at Clet after this group of 6 seniors graduate.

Will they go thru a few ups and downs in years to follow? Yes I am sure they will. But I think they will still aim at winning 20 games, a good showing in the NCS. Based on the past history Clet has typically had trouble winning in the post season beyond the NCS. Hopefully eventually they find a way to continue to improve and push the bar.

I am pretty sure he meant where was it written (argued) that C-let would drop off in 2006 after Appel left.

While Jayne had a strong senior crew, C-let did return 3 six footers the next season and added 6-3" frosh Erin Boettcher. Not to mention frosh Rikki Radanovich.

I suppose it's possible, but I don't recall anyone being worried that the C-let train was leaving the station at that point.

If anyone knows of any blue chip straight to varsity frosh heading to C-let next season, I would love to hear about it. My radar is showing very little interest.

 

[Paytc]

I am pretty sure he meant where was it written (argued) that C-let would drop off in 2006 after Appel left.

While Jayne had a strong senior crew, C-let did return 3 six footers the next season and added 6-3" frosh Erin Boettcher. Not to mention frosh Rikki Radanovich.

I suppose it's possible, but I don't recall anyone being worried that the C-let train was leaving the station at that point.

If anyone knows of any blue chip straight to varsity frosh heading to C-let next season, I would love to hear about it. My radar is showing very little interest.

Let me make myself a bit clearer for the speculators and those who aren't good mind readers. I am very aware of the fact this is the last of the pipeline Margaret's influence had on the recruits coming to Clet. IMO the last coaching staff didn't do a good job with nurturing and continuing to feed and fuel the pipeline. So of course I overstand the fact that next season (which hasn't arrived yet) based on the final roster and the way the schedule is put together could result in the team being able to maintain 20 wins and a decent post season showing or they may indeed start going thru a tough season or two. But I never said stick a fork in them they are done after this season. That was one of my points. I also have said (IMO) I haven't seen but about two seasons (two teams) that I thought was head and shoulders over all the rest. So IMO good programs like Clet that have a good base of talent to pull from are never all that far away from being contenders even in down seasons. IMO girls basketball is just not that lopsided when you compare the programs (especially private schools) who are typically good year in and year out because of their ability to attract and recruit over and above what public schools for the most part are able to do. And again who knows Clet might have a coaching staff that often gets more out of less like MM, ESCP, Clovis West, SJND, Bear Creek, and a few others.

Again my main point was I wasn't as quik to say stick a fork in them they are done.

I'm sure neither was Bill Bellichick and Tom Brady who won the super Bowl without necessarily having their best and most talented team ever.

 

[Paytc]

I am pretty sure he meant where was it written (argued) that C-let would drop off in 2006 after Appel left.

While Jayne had a strong senior crew, C-let did return 3 six footers the next season and added 6-3" frosh Erin Boettcher. Not to mention frosh Rikki Radanovich.

I suppose it's possible, but I don't recall anyone being worried that the C-let train was leaving the station at that point.

If anyone knows of any blue chip straight to varsity frosh heading to C-let next season, I would love to hear about it. My radar is showing very little interest.

personalogic,

I know of one young player in middle school in the Eastbay right now who IMO is talented, big, strong, has the basketball IQ, and mature enough to start on any varsity program in the state. At the moment she might be up for grabs in terms of which high school she will end up attending. I know what school she and her parents are at this time planning on having her attend. I got a heads up that at the moment it won't be MM, or Clet.

I also know another young stud who's not even reached middle school yet but plays with varsity age kids already in pickup games and in AAU. Don't be surprised when a few players in the near future come in young and far more ready to play than most might expect. The parents and kids are starting earlier and putting in more money and hours to be better prepared. It's borderline crazy where things are going. Hopefully kids bodies and young minds can withstand the demands placed on some of them.

 

[straightline50]

Where was it written.... where should I begin.....

I could be wrong but it came off like the whole purpose of this thread was to point out the fact that Clet would suffer as a program next season and the years that follow it. Here are just a few of the comments.....

"Unless C-let has a miracle incoming class and/or a couple of big transfers lined up, I think this may be their last elite season for awhile.", personalogic

"you are correct Carondelet is in trouble and SRV is the team on the rise.", straightline50

"I am not sure C-let has the potential to re-load, at least to elite (Open Division) status. It takes D1 talent to draw D1 talent. In other words, the top players want to go where they will play with their peers, compete at a high level, and be seen by college coaches in the stands.", personalogic

"Carondelet is in big trouble moving forward.Think of it this way, remove Bamberger and they are likely losing to Cal, SRV and Dublin today. Now, take five more seasoned veterans with her and how far is the tumble?", straightline50


And that is just a few of the comments on this particlear thread. I've noticed others also who have made comments that suggest there would be a significant drop off at Clet after this group of 6 seniors graduate.

Will they go thru a few ups and downs in years to follow? Yes I am sure they will. But I think they will still aim at winning 20 games, a good showing in the NCS. Based on the past history Clet has typically had trouble winning in the post season beyond the NCS. Hopefully eventually they find a way to continue to improve and push the bar.

Where was it written they would drop when they lost Jayne Appel? I know they are going to drop next year. If they played the same schedule is this year they would lose 20+ games. That is a huge drop. When Appel left the Cougars continued to play a tough schedule and lost to Pinole Valley in the semi-finals.

Typically had trouble winning past NCS? That is like saying the Patriots lose in the Super Bowl, which is true they have lost four just like the Bills and Vikings but there is also some success.

Carondelet will be behind Dublin, SRV and Cal. That is a drop.

 

[Paytc]

Where was it written they would drop when they lost Jayne Appel? I know they are going to drop next year. If they played the same schedule is this year they would lose 20+ games. That is a huge drop. When Appel left the Cougars continued to play a tough schedule and lost to Pinole Valley in the semi-finals.

Typically had trouble winning past NCS? That is like saying the Patriots lose in the Super Bowl, which is true they have lost four just like the Bills and Vikings but there is also some success.

Carondelet will be behind Dublin, SRV and Cal. That is a drop.

I'm sure there were a few Jayne appel fans who thought once she left the team was doomed even if it wasn't written anywhere.

While I can agree there may or may not be a drop in overall success. It's fair to say there may indeed be a drop in depth of talent. But it's hard to say the team next season will do worse when the final team and/ or the schedule hasn't been put together yet. Another thing is fair to say is I may be more optimistic than most. Sometimes teams with less talent play better and go further as a "team".

I'm also not sure Carondelet will automatically lose to SRV, Cal, and Dublin next season. But I'm sure all three will be looking forward to facing Carondelet just as Campolindo was when they were finally able to beat MM a time or two after Sabrina graduated.

Patriots won because they understand coaching, preparation, unity, execution, and confidence can make up for lack of talent.

 

[CIF2019]

It's hard to argue many of your points. But with regard to what players the current coaching staff will play I think there has been a game or so ( I was at one in particular) where they reached deep into the bench and had return players like (Holloway who was still rounding back into shape) Annie and Jayme on the floor during crunch time. While starters Brown, Howie, and Miller sat. They even played their 6ft freshman off and on. I think they are willing to roll with the hot hands or best matchups.

Going back to what Clet will have as I pointed out regardless to whether or not they will or will not have or attact so call D1 players, their aim shouldn't change in the process of obtaining them. They should still aim for winning 20 games and doing well in the NCS and post season tournament whether its the Open or Division 1 or 2.

I agree MM and a few others grabbed a few players that considered Clet and that most likely will continue to happen. But they still have De La Salle next door. Many of the De La Salle boys have sisters who will come in to Carondelet with them. And Clet will still be able to pull from a far reaching radius. Sure they will need to win and show a commitment to winning at a high level to attract many of the elite players you're thinking of. My main point is it's not like they have been winning multiple Nike TOC's or multiple state championships. No they haven't even set the bar high enough to aim at those things. But winning league, winning 20 games, and going to the NCS championship will IMO continue to be enough within a reasonable reach that they may continue to be relevant enough to attract so call D1 players and enough size to remain one of the East Bay and Norcal worthy contenders. Since I've been watching girls hoops in Norcal closely, I really have only seen one team that was really all that head and shoulders over everyone else. And they got upset in the post season. Maybe two teams as BOD was pretty good several years back when they had A.T. her freshman season. But regardless to what other teams have or Clet doesn't have with good to fair coaching the level of competition won't be all that much higher than Clet will be able to reach is another of my points.

And Annie B. is as good an outside shooter as anyone on the team this season and she returns. I'm sure they will find a couple more outside shooters, as the school has a history of want to be leading the league scorers.

If Clet was smart they would have brought Margaret back. She has an in with much of the current 8th grade talent. The two guys at the helm are currently in figuring it out mode. They will be a day late and dollar short.

 

[OnBall8]

If Clet was smart they would have brought Margaret back. She has an in with much of the current 8th grade talent. The two guys at the helm are currently in figuring it out mode. They will be a day late and dollar short.

I thought this too. But I have a feeling if she wanted to be back she would have been. She is still around both at c-let games (at least the one I was at) and involved in the cal stars as you alluded to

 

[CIF2019]

personalogic,

I know of one young player in middle school in the Eastbay right now who IMO is talented, big, strong, has the basketball IQ, and mature enough to start on any varsity program in the state. At the moment she might be up for grabs in terms of which high school she will end up attending. I know what school she and her parents are at this time planning on having her attend. I got a heads up that at the moment it won't be MM, or Clet.

I also know another young stud who's not even reached middle school yet but plays with varsity age kids already in pickup games and in AAU. Don't be surprised when a few players in the near future come in young and far more ready to play than most might expect. The parents and kids are starting earlier and putting in more money and hours to be better prepared. It's borderline crazy where things are going. Hopefully kids bodies and young minds can withstand the demands placed on some of them.

You picked my interest. I have a daughter who plays 8th grade AAU. For XBA. I have seen all the girls. Which middle schooler are you talking about which can start on any varsity school in the state? That's a bold statement. I believe the best middle school guard lives in Concord and plays for Cal Stars 8th. Are we talking about the same girl? First name start with an "S"....

 

[Paytc]

If Clet was smart they would have brought Margaret back. She has an in with much of the current 8th grade talent. The two guys at the helm are currently in figuring it out mode. They will be a day late and dollar short.

I will pass on that response other than to say Margaret put her run in with the team and it appears to be over. I agree she does have an in with many of the young kids because she's been working with quite a few. And Margaret is a very good coach. I sure wish my daughter would have had an opportunity to play under her. I will have to hold out on what the new staff will or will not be able to do. It starts with caring about the children you are coaching and the program as a whole. I think the new staff thus far has shown they care about the kids and the program. We will just have to see where it goes from here. Even Margaret had to start her first day/season coaching at Clet in the beginning before she was able to take the program where she did. It typically takes a bit of time. I don't think coaching or players end with any one coach or one player. Basketball is not rocket science, other coaches and other players can figure it out.

As far as the one amazing young talent I am speaking about let me clarify a few things. First off it is just IMO that she has the overall package to start on any school in the state. That doesn't mean any and every coach would see the same thing I see in her. And even if they did some coaches prefer to slowly work players into the lineup and/ or prefer not to bench returning starters who may already have a good fit on the team.

I don't want to say who she is other than no her name doesn't start with an "s." And she doesn't play for Cal stars or any AAU team I'm aware of. That is what makes her situation so amazing. I am not even sure she's had any coaches or skill development trainers work with her yet. When they do sky is the limit. And hopefully she gets into the right situation(s).

 

[LBJ6]

You picked my interest. I have a daughter who plays 8th grade AAU. For XBA. I have seen all the girls. Which middle schooler are you talking about which can start on any varsity school in the state? That's a bold statement. I believe the best middle school guard lives in Concord and plays for Cal Stars 8th. Are we talking about the same girl? First name start with an "S"....

This girl can play with anyone. She is Miramonte bound and will contribute right away. The miramonte machine will keep rolling. Sopak never sleeps.

 

[Paytc]

This girl can play with anyone. She is Miramonte bound and will contribute right away. The miramonte machine will keep rolling. Sopak never sleeps.

I trust you're right. And hooking up with Cal Stars and Kelly Sopak IMO can help a young promising player. Of course there are other coaches and other clubs and programs that may help just as much. The girl I am talking about by no means am I saying she is definitely the best player at her age in the state. What I am saying is she has all it takes right now to start (if each coach is willing to allow her to) on any team out there. Perhaps the girl you're talking about could do the same. But it generally takes more than just talent to be able to make such a large leap. The girl has to be physically, emotionally, and mentally strong enough. And mature enough so other girls(even team mates) who are older don't eat her alive. IMO this kid is mature beyond her young age. I see her being able to have an immediate impact wherever she goes.

 

[CIF2019]

I will pass on that response other than to say Margaret put her run in with the team and it appears to be over. I agree she does have an in with many of the young kids because she's been working with quite a few. And Margaret is a very good coach. I sure wish my daughter would have had an opportunity to play under her. I will have to hold out on what the new staff will or will not be able to do. It starts with caring about the children you are coaching and the program as a whole. I think the new staff thus far has shown they care about the kids and the program. We will just have to see where it goes from here. Even Margaret had to start her first day/season coaching at Clet in the beginning before she was able to take the program where she did. It typically takes a bit of time. I don't think coaching or players end with any one coach or one player. Basketball is not rocket science, other coaches and other players can figure it out.

As far as the one amazing young talent I am speaking about let me clarify a few things. First off it is just IMO that she has the overall package to start on any school in the state. That doesn't mean any and every coach would see the same thing I see in her. And even if they did some coaches prefer to slowly work players into the lineup and/ or prefer not to bench returning starters who may already have a good fit on the team.

I don't want to say who she is other than no her name doesn't start with an "s." And she doesn't play for Cal stars or any AAU team I'm aware of. That is what makes her situation so amazing. I am not even sure she's had any coaches or skill development trainers work with her yet. When they do sky is the limit. And hopefully she gets into the right situation(s).

Call me skeptical that an 8th grader who has never proven herself in AAU could start for any varsity team in the state. Maybe you are right, but that would be one hell of a hidden gem nobody knows about. I'm not buying what you are selling.