Too many post-season games?

[personalogic]

I have questioned the value of such an extended post-season for high school basketball. Too many teams and meaningless early round mismatches. Give the kids a break, or at least an opportunity to transition earlier to their Spring sports, AAU, or whatever they have planned next.

So I looked at last night's NCS scores, for both boys and girls. Just D1, D2 and D3 so far. Focused on the games between the top 4 seeds against the bottom 4 seeds. Many blowouts. 4 "close" games (decided by less than 10 points). One upset by a 13 seed over a 4 seed.

Could be worse, I suppose. But if I had a vote, I would still reduce the NCS pools from 16 to 8 teams, and send only 2 teams, not 4, on to Norcals.

 

[ClayK]

The logic is that they'd rather let some teams in that don't belong rather than keep a team that does belong out,

I know our girls are pumped about being in NCS, even as the 14th seed.

 

[Streak One]

I think it is too many games and I would shrink it down by a round. I know every team who gets to play is excited and that is a good thing, but it is just another example of "everybody gets a ribbon."

On a different topic, the EBAL has a rough first night.

 

[Mo Green]

Originally posted by Streak One:
I think it is too many games and I would shrink it down by a round. I know every team who gets to play is excited and that is a good thing, but it is just another example of "everybody gets a ribbon."

On a different topic, the EBAL has a rough first night.

That is a terrible analogy.

If anything is watered down it is NorCals where teams can go one-and-done in sectionals and still qualify.
This post was edited on 2/25 10:30 AM by Mo Green

 

[Streak One]

It is the same idea for sections and NorCal. One isn't worse than the other. Both are watered down by teams that probably don't belong.

And there isn't a way that you can be one and done and get a bid to NorCals.

 

[personalogic]

Re the EBAL: I saw every team in the league at least once this season, and still coach CYO and AAU based in San Ramon. Other than C-let of course, the EBAL may be in for a rough decade.

 

[observer22]

Originally posted by Streak One:
It is the same idea for sections and NorCal. One isn't worse than the other. Both are watered down by teams that probably don't belong.

And there isn't a way that you can be one and done and get a bid to NorCals.

In the Northern Section D2 bracket, there are only 2 teams, Pleasant Valley and Chico. Do both get to move on to NorCals or just the winner?

NS D2 Bracket

 

[northbaybbguru]

I couldn't disagree more with the too many postseason game question.....


1) they are only allowed to play 26 games max in the regular season...as I look across the national landscape, there are teams from other states who have already played 30, 35 and 40 games at this point of the season....why is 1 extra game a big deal?

2) I agree with Clay.....so maybe a team or 2 that doesn't belong gets in....that's WAY better than a team that DOES belong not getting in.

3) in a 16 team bracket (rather than 8) then 8 teams get to play ONE extra game...big deal......I disagree with the "it is giving everyone a ribbon " analogy....not true, those teams aren't getting any awards or ribbons or medals....they get to play ONE extra game....again, what's the big deal????

too many postseason games is a very elitist way of looking at it......the big boys/girls would be the ones in the playoffs every year....and the lower level 2nd tier programs/schools would be left out, never getting a chance to compete.

You think the bitching about private schools is bad now? go to 8 team brackets and see how that works when its 80% private schools in the playoffs.


This post was edited on 2/25 12:25 PM by northbaybbguru

 

[ballersdreams]

Just think if there wasn't 16 teams in SJS D2 sections 6 seed Sac High would still be playing instead of 11 seed Ponderosa who beat them by 74-81. Also in SJS D2 7seed Golden Valley lost to 10 seed Elk Grove 47-51 That's why the 16 seeds are always good never know who will beat who any give game.


Also D! SJS section 7 seed Napa lost to 10 seed River City by the score of 43 -52.

SJS D4 SJS 9 Livingston beat 8 seed San Juan.64-47

 

[ClayK]

"Everybody gets a ribbon" ...

OK, to a point. But it's not as if you just get handed a berth in NCS. We had to come from 10 down in the second half against College Prep to win in order to qualify ... and maybe that doesn't count for much for anyone else, but it counts for us.

There are teams in our league that lost games and didn't get in, and they're not happy, College Prep being one of them.

One issue I do have, though, is having a 16-team bracket when there are fewer than 32 teams in a particular division. It would seem to be that a larger division, like Division V, can justify that 16-team bracket, but if there are only 25 teams, maybe it should be 12.

 

[Streak One]

I don't question the excitement of playing in the playoffs for any team. And you are right Clay, you have to do some good things throughout the year to get invited. If I was a part of a team that was playing first round games this week as a low seed, I would be thrilled.

From an observer point of view, I just don't think it is the best thing for the sport. I think playoffs should be a privilege for the top teams in each division. It is the time of year to highlight the top teams playing the best competition possible.

And yes, there will always be "seed upsets" and that is great. However, results shouldn't change an overall position.

 

[Streak One]

Originally posted by observer22:

Originally posted by Streak One:
It is the same idea for sections and NorCal. One isn't worse than the other. Both are watered down by teams that probably don't belong.

And there isn't a way that you can be one and done and get a bid to NorCals.

In the Northern Section D2 bracket, there are only 2 teams, Pleasant Valley and Chico. Do both get to move on to NorCals or just the winner?

Good find. I think they would both get one, which is pretty silly

 

[personalogic]

I guess it depends on your objectives and how you balance them.

If you want to find out which team is the best in your section, 8 candidates per division seems like enough.

If you want to find out which team is the best in Norcal, 2 candidates per section seems like enough.

If your goal is to give more teams opportunities to play more games, change the limit for everyone.

If you think that kids should have a reasonable opportunity to put aside basketball in time to play Spring sports or enjoy other non-basketball activities, give some consideration to finding ways to crown your basketball champions more quickly and efficiently.

Competition is by its nature non-egalitarian. You're not trying to give everyone the same thing, you're trying to honor someone for being the best. That should be the focus, not whether players are thrilled to make NCS, or whether mostly private schools will be in the hunt, or whether you can use the process to squeeze in a few more games.

 

[girlsbasketball1616]

To answer the question on whether or not D2 Chico or PV get in. I am from that area and they made a rule last year that only the winner gets in. The problem is this is a very intense rivalry and last year Pleasant Valley beat them 3 times handily and had a bad game the fourth time. Should both teams get automatic berths, absolutely not!! But if there is a huge upset you need to look at if the other team deserves to get in. I think PV deserve to get in by record and rankings but because of the "rule" they were not even considered. The result: They have an 11 team bracket (which is stupid) and Chico High actually won their first game.(so even with their bad record I guess they deserved to be in?) In this case,why not run a 12 team bracket and put a team like PV or another team maybe that got upset in their bracket in that 12th spot. My problem is there is no rhyme or reason for bracket sizes in Nor Cals. Who would have an 11 team bracket? I understand the north section only has two D2 teams so the playoffs are a joke, but what can they do, making a bunch more D2 schools isn't going to happen because it is a small city.

It is hard to say if we need to cut back on brackets but if you look at Chico High who had a terrible record they still won a game and all the upsets that happened(stated in previous message) how can you cut back. You never know where that next Hoosiers might come from? This is not a perfect system and I am glad I am not in charge of making the rules or picks for Nor Cals. No matter what you do somebody does not agree....if we all did message boards like this wouldn't be needed.LOL

 

[Mo Green]

Originally posted by Streak One:
It is the same idea for sections and NorCal. One isn't worse than the other. Both are watered down by teams that probably don't belong.

And there isn't a way that you can be one and done and get a bid to NorCals.

It happened a few years ago. I don't recall the team but it was a 12 team NCS bracket where the seeded team got upset in the quarters. If a team gets pulled to open they just go down the line to highes seeded team to not make the semis.

And yes, NorCals is much more watered down than sectionals.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

Whichever team loses their first two games in the CCS Open tournament still goes to the NorCal playoffs.

 

[Mo Green]

Originally posted by SouthBayHoopFan:
Whichever team loses their first two games in the CCS Open tournament still goes to the NorCal playoffs.

I'm ok with a team getting bounced in The Open getting a shot at their natural division. San Marin getting upset in their D3 opener last year and still advancing to NorCals was a joke.