End the public drought

[colhenrylives]

It's time. It's past time. It's been a long and unfulfilling 35 years since a Central Coast Section public school girls' basketball team won (or even played for) a California state title. Ronald Reagen was in the White House back in 1988 when Burlingame won the CCS publics' sole state championship. By all rights, the state's equity-based seeding arrangement should give CCS publics a big boost in that direction. But, so far, it hasn't happened. Is this the year? Finally? We can only wait, wonder and, well, hope. Let the games begin.

 

[cptmycpa]

It's time. It's past time. It's been a long and unfulfilling 35 years since a Central Coast Section public school girls' basketball team won (or even played for) a California state title. Ronald Reagen was in the White House back in 1988 when Burlingame won the CCS publics' sole state championship. By all rights, the state's equity-based seeding arrangement should give CCS publics a big boost in that direction. But, so far, it hasn't happened. Is this the year? Finally? We can only wait, wonder and, well, hope. Let the games begin.

I don't follow the CCS publics. Just curious. Which team(s) have a chance to win a state title this season?

 

[TheHillZ]

I think the only conceivable shot is Santa Cruz. With an enrollment of 1100, they somehow got the #2 seed in D5 (after losing in the D3 CCS Final).

 

[ankleassassin]

I think the only conceivable shot is Santa Cruz. With an enrollment of 1100, they somehow got the #2 seed in D5 (after losing in the D3 CCS Final).

it is based of power rankings and nothing to do with enrollment. isnt it?

 

[kiddman32]

yup, enrollment has nothing to do with it past section tourneys.

 

[colhenrylives]

The collapse of CCS public school girls' hoops began at about the same time Burlingame was pulling off its 1988 title. Here are several factors that have since doomed the CCS publics:

1. Several key private/parochial schools went coed, including S.I., SHC, Menlo and, lately, Riordan, as a means to boost marketing and solidify enrollment.
2. The WCAL created a female arrangement that engendered intense competition for players.
3. The old Girls Private School League was changed and expanded into what is now the WBAL. Again, competition for players increased.
4. Volleyball, especially AAU club volleyball played during the winter months, cut into the supply of athletic girls who, back in the day, would have played basketball too.
5. Demographics. The ethnic makeup of CCS has changed dramatically over the past many decades to the detriment of girls' basketball.

In the end, all of the above combined has reduced the available public school supply of female athletes for the sport. Since 1988, CCS private/parochials have captured 30 state basketball crowns. The publics have zero. There are no signs that the situation is improving. The only hope for now is the CIF's focus on equity-based state tournament brackets.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

The collapse of CCS public school girls' hoops began at about the same time Burlingame was pulling off its 1988 title. Here are several factors that have since doomed the CCS publics:

1. Several key private/parochial schools went coed, including S.I., SHC, Menlo and, lately, Riordan, as a means to boost marketing and solidify enrollment.
2. The WCAL created a female arrangement that engendered intense competition for players.
3. The old Girls Private School League was changed and expanded into what is now the WBAL. Again, competition for players increased.
4. Volleyball, especially AAU club volleyball played during the winter months, cut into the supply of athletic girls who, back in the day, would have played basketball too.
5. Demographics. The ethnic makeup of CCS has changed dramatically over the past many decades to the detriment of girls' basketball.

In the end, all of the above combined has reduced the available public school supply of female athletes for the sport. Since 1988, CCS private/parochials have captured 30 state basketball crowns. The publics have zero. There are no signs that the situation is improving. The only hope for now is the CIF's focus on equity-based state tournament brackets.

I know Socal has way more kids to pull from, but why are public schools more in CCS not as good as other areas (socal and norcal)? They have a lot of kids to pull from, more than other regions.

 

[letsski]

The collapse of CCS public school girls' hoops began at about the same time Burlingame was pulling off its 1988 title. Here are several factors that have since doomed the CCS publics:

1. Several key private/parochial schools went coed, including S.I., SHC, Menlo and, lately, Riordan, as a means to boost marketing and solidify enrollment.
2. The WCAL created a female arrangement that engendered intense competition for players.
3. The old Girls Private School League was changed and expanded into what is now the WBAL. Again, competition for players increased.
4. Volleyball, especially AAU club volleyball played during the winter months, cut into the supply of athletic girls who, back in the day, would have played basketball too.
5. Demographics. The ethnic makeup of CCS has changed dramatically over the past many decades to the detriment of girls' basketball.

In the end, all of the above combined has reduced the available public school supply of female athletes for the sport. Since 1988, CCS private/parochials have captured 30 state basketball crowns. The publics have zero. There are no signs that the situation is improving. The only hope for now is the CIF's focus on equity-based state tournament brackets.

While I agree with most of your post, I would say that this year in particular showed that many of the public's can compete and even defeat some of the traditionally strong privates. Paly and Crystal in particular earned wins in the OPEN division.

OTOH, if I have a daughter that was committed to basketball, I'd want her playing with a group of kids, supported by their parents, that are going to show up and be there for their teammates. 3 public''s playing in CCS had their best player take off during CCS playoffs. Sequoia, Los Gatos and Carlmont all had leading scorers leave for either club volleyball or vacation. That just doesn't happened at a SHC or Mitty.

 

[ClayK]

ColHenry's post raises lots of interesting questions, but for me, the first one is this: How good are the public schools in San Jose and on the Peninsula?

From the outside, it seems like the Peninsula and San Francisco publics must not be that good, given the large number of private schools. Regardless, since private schools compete for students, quality extracurricular programs are important for enrollment, so investment in athletics makes sense, When there were local newspapers, athletic teams were free marketing, and to an extent, still are today.

It's also been my impression that the San Jose area is more focused on volleyball than the East Bay. Basketball players appear to go to Mitty or Pinewood, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of talent left over for other schools. (The shift to volleyball is beginning to have a major impact on the East Bay as well.)

Thoughts?

 

[GetOnTheBoards]

For many reasons, I don't think the public schools in San Jose and on the Peninsula are particularly strong in girls basketball. Primarily, there just aren't that many girls who prioritize the sport. I've seen the turnout numbers as a youth and middle school coach in San Jose -- it's tough to assemble competitive teams and get many girls playing even in big schools. Many high schools barely have enough for JV, and forget about a freshman team. The handful of kids that do prioritize basketball often come to the conclusion that to play with other competitive girls, receive good coaching and advance as players they have to go to Mitty or Pinewood. There's an element of modern/Silicon Valley nothing-but-the-best-will-do thinking. Like academic powerhouses that attract families, Mitty and Pinewood run like college basketball programs with full-time coaching staffs and trainers working with kids year-around (not saying in any ways that violate rules). Consolidate the very top talent in a large metro and beyond, combine it with great coaching (now deemed the only gurus capable of coaching their daughters by the local population), continually win and promote your success, and the cycle continues and deepens...

There are 2 or 3 public schools surrounding San Jose I can think of that have been solid recently, but would have been extremely good if 2-4 local kids hadn't gone to Mitty, Pinewood or other privates. If they'd stayed public, those teams would have been extremely good at a public school competing against a bunch of not-so-strong opponents. I imagine kids/parents wanted to play at a higher level.

As someone who loves basketball, it's discouraging to see all the attention and energy in such a large area sucked into two programs. It's a strange dynamic, and I think it's been one factor in dampening girls interest in the game at an early age. If you don't get on that high-achieving basketball track, better find something else... And there are lots of options in California with volleyball, soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, rowing.

The only way I can imagine it changing is if more girls play basketball and continue playing basketball. Maybe it requires better organization of youth programs to rival volleyball and soccer, more outreach to families who have cultural backgrounds that lead them to other sports, finding ways to better cooperate with other sports and clubs. It's not a simple problem, but raising the overall level of play in the area (not just at two premier programs) will require more girls excited about and committed to the game.

 

[ankleassassin]

I know Socal has way more kids to pull from, but why are public schools more in CCS not as good as other areas (socal and norcal)? They have a lot of kids to pull from, more than other regions.

a ton of kids and a ton of kids that hoop are 2 completely different things.

 

[GetOnTheBoards]

Clay -- If I misread your question and you were asking how good are the public schools academically? Many of them are excellent and highly ranked. I'd guess the majority of kids don't need to go private to get a great education in the San Jose/Peninsula geography. That doesn't mean parents with more ambition and money than almost anywhere in the world don't want something even better for their kids. So yeah, lots of private schools, too.

 

[ClayK]

USA Basketball has sat by quietly and allowed other sports to eat away at basketball participation for years with no attempt to reverse that trend. That organization is really the only one with enough resources to attempt to turn the tide, but it has shown no interest in doing so.

Sad.

 

[OnBall8]

@GetOnTheBoards Please enlighten us as to who these "full time" coaches are. I've met many coaches in the area and I don't know if any of them are making a living off of it.

I can agree with you on the part about the silicon valley mentality possibly having an impact. Alpha personality CEOs and other c-level executives are bound to carry that same mentality as parents. No different than the pressure some kids get to go to certain colleges or get certain jobs. Money is not an object in the equation for some of these parents/students, and that matters. So when they think they have found an avenue for their kids to succeed, they shoot for the moon. Now, personally I think this is a fairly small percentage overall.

I think a bigger percentage of kids at the youth level are suffering from a lack of quality coaching. NJB is dead because of parent coaching. Middle schools have less and less teacher-coaches or consistency with coaches, causing them to rely on parents as well. Don't get me started on every dad who thinks they can coach making an AAU team now. You have to remember that at the high school level, being able to coach a few seasons and being successful is very very different than building a program of continued success. At the youth level there are less and less coaches that are in it for the long haul AND great at what they do. It's tough, the job doesnt pay, the hours suck, the parents are the worst, teaching is hard. I get why folks call it quits or move to greener pastures (aka private schools or higher paying AAU gigs). Cream rises to the top and that doesn't just go for players.

 

[ankleassassin]

@GetOnTheBoards Please enlighten us as to who these "full time" coaches are. I've met many coaches in the area and I don't know if any of them are making a living off of it.

I can agree with you on the part about the silicon valley mentality possibly having an impact. Alpha personality CEOs and other c-level executives are bound to carry that same mentality as parents. No different than the pressure some kids get to go to certain colleges or get certain jobs. Money is not an object in the equation for some of these parents/students, and that matters. So when they think they have found an avenue for their kids to succeed, they shoot for the moon. Now, personally I think this is a fairly small percentage overall.

I think a bigger percentage of kids at the youth level are suffering from a lack of quality coaching. NJB is dead because of parent coaching. Middle schools have less and less teacher-coaches or consistency with coaches, causing them to rely on parents as well. Don't get me started on every dad who thinks they can coach making an AAU team now. You have to remember that at the high school level, being able to coach a few seasons and being successful is very very different than building a program of continued success. At the youth level there are less and less coaches that are in it for the long haul AND great at what they do. It's tough, the job doesnt pay, the hours suck, the parents are the worst, teaching is hard. I get why folks call it quits or move to greener pastures (aka private schools or higher paying AAU gigs). Cream rises to the top and that doesn't just go for players.

full time meaning they coach year round. not that they are paid handsomely for it. they just do it.

 

[OnBall8]

full time meaning they coach year round. not that they are paid handsomely for it. they just do it.

makes sense. Year round and full time are very different terms in my mind I guess.

 

[BigMann08]

I know Socal has way more kids to pull from, but why are public schools more in CCS not as good as other areas (socal and norcal)? They have a lot of kids to pull from, more than other regions.

Private schools have the ability to recruit…

California sports is on the decline. SoCal is pretty much the last stronghold for sports. Much of that can be attributed to South LA, which is being gentrified as we speak.

If (or once) South LA is gentrified, California Prep Sports will be an afterthought. A lot of families have moved to Texas, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada…

 

[OnBall8]

Private schools have the ability to recruit…

California sports is on the decline. SoCal is pretty much the last stronghold for sports. Much of that can be attributed to South LA, which is being gentrified as we speak.

If (or once) South LA is gentrified, California Prep Sports will be an afterthought. A lot of families have moved to Texas, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada…

I don't know what numbers you are looking at, but maybe you can share them. In women's sports CA is still very much a hotbed of talent pretty much across the board. In basketball (this is a womens basketball forum afterall) I would argue that CA is close to the top. And norcal specifically has seen a huge jump in the amount of talent playing (and succeeding) at the next level. Again, if you have evidence of the contrary I would love to see it

 

[GetOnTheBoards]

@GetOnTheBoards Please enlighten us as to who these "full time" coaches are. I've met many coaches in the area and I don't know if any of them are making a living off of it.

I can agree with you on the part about the silicon valley mentality possibly having an impact. Alpha personality CEOs and other c-level executives are bound to carry that same mentality as parents. No different than the pressure some kids get to go to certain colleges or get certain jobs. Money is not an object in the equation for some of these parents/students, and that matters. So when they think they have found an avenue for their kids to succeed, they shoot for the moon. Now, personally I think this is a fairly small percentage overall.

I think a bigger percentage of kids at the youth level are suffering from a lack of quality coaching. NJB is dead because of parent coaching. Middle schools have less and less teacher-coaches or consistency with coaches, causing them to rely on parents as well. Don't get me started on every dad who thinks they can coach making an AAU team now. You have to remember that at the high school level, being able to coach a few seasons and being successful is very very different than building a program of continued success. At the youth level there are less and less coaches that are in it for the long haul AND great at what they do. It's tough, the job doesnt pay, the hours suck, the parents are the worst, teaching is hard. I get why folks call it quits or move to greener pastures (aka private schools or higher paying AAU gigs). Cream rises to the top and that doesn't just go for players.

makes sense. Year round and full time are very different terms in my mind I guess.

I agree with you generally regarding coaching. It's a very mixed bag. And that kind of goes to Clay's point about USA Basketball's shortfalls in growing and supporting the game. I believe soccer and volleyball have much more organized systems to train and certify coaches, organize competition, etc. Basketball is kind of a free-for-all and it shows in a lot of ways. Probably not super appealing to many kids and families.

 

[ankleassassin]

Private schools have the ability to recruit…

California sports is on the decline. SoCal is pretty much the last stronghold for sports. Much of that can be attributed to South LA, which is being gentrified as we speak.

If (or once) South LA is gentrified, California Prep Sports will be an afterthought. A lot of families have moved to Texas, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada…

* South Central LA. they starting calling it South LA to trick the gentrification people.

 

[colhenrylives]

I know Socal has way more kids to pull from, but why are public schools more in CCS not as good as other areas (socal and norcal)? They have a lot of kids to pull from, more than other regions.

The collapse of CCS public school girls' hoops began at about the same time Burlingame was pulling off its 1988 title. Here are several factors that have since doomed the CCS publics:

1. Several key private/parochial schools went coed, including S.I., SHC, Menlo and, lately, Riordan, as a means to boost marketing and solidify enrollment.
2. The WCAL created a female arrangement that engendered intense competition for players.
3. The old Girls Private School League was changed and expanded into what is now the WBAL. Again, competition for players increased.
4. Volleyball, especially AAU club volleyball played during the winter months, cut into the supply of athletic girls who, back in the day, would have played basketball too.
5. Demographics. The ethnic makeup of CCS has changed dramatically over the past many decades to the detriment of girls' basketball.

In the end, all of the above combined has reduced the available public school supply of female athletes for the sport. Since 1988, CCS private/parochials have captured 30 state basketball crowns. The publics have zero. There are no signs that the situation is improving. The only hope for now is the CIF's focus on equity-based state tournament brackets.

An addendum: As the 1980s came to a close and the 1990s commenced, it was becoming clear that the girls' side of the coaching equation in CCS was changing at places like Menlo (John Paye), Mitty (Sue Phillips), SHC (Brian Harrigan) and SHP (Mike Ciardella). By the mid-1990s, Doc Scheppler had moved over to Pinewood. All five of those coaches were top of the line. Those five programs began accumulating gobs of CIF titles _ and talented players who, at one time, would have stayed at their local public schools. No more. Those days are long-gone. Prior to 1988, probably the best early CCS public hoops program was at Los Gatos under Coach John Mackey. They were a CIF title threat but couldn't quite get to the top of the mountain, losing in the Division I finals in 1982 and 1984. Lynbrook of San Jose lost in Division I in 1981. Adding extra playoff divisions was helpful later for Burlingame, a Division III team. So, in total, a CCS public team has played for a CIF crown four times, winning once, all in the 1980s. As we speak, there appear to be three CCS publics with at least a glimmer of hope for a 2023 CIF championship: Summit Shasta of Daly City, Hillsdale of San Mateo and Santa Cruz. Only Summit Shasta is a Central Coast Section champion (in Divisiion V). Again, the new equity formula should be extremely helpful for all three. Fingers crossed.

 

[sfpreps]

I don't follow the CCS publics. Just curious. Which team(s) have a chance to win a state title this season?

Summit Shasta in D4 could make some noise.

 

[colhenrylives]

Summit Shasta in D4 could make some noise.

That was noted above. Getting past Menlo will not be a walk in the park, however.

 

[blex20]

That was noted above. Getting past Menlo will not be a walk in the park, however.

I'm heading to this game Thursday. I was there when Shasta beat Crystal Springs and CS handled Menlo twice. But those games between Shasta and CS were always entertaining and two teams who know each other very well. If Menlo has a glaring advantage, it would be in the post game, where Shasta is not very big. Shasta relies on their full court pressure to create turnovers and fast breaks. They can also live and die by the 3 ball. If they're on top of those two parts of their game, they can pull the upset, for sure. They don't want to get into a half court game vs Menlo. And they're lucky enough to be deep with guards, so they'll rotate through often to stay fresh and keep that pressure. But they must stay out of foul trouble too.

 

[CaliHoops23]

I'm heading to this game Thursday. I was there when Shasta beat Crystal Springs and CS handled Menlo twice. But those games between Shasta and CS were always entertaining and two teams who know each other very well. If Menlo has a glaring advantage, it would be in the post game, where Shasta is not very big. Shasta relies on their full court pressure to create turnovers and fast breaks. They can also live and die by the 3 ball. If they're on top of those two parts of their game, they can pull the upset, for sure. They don't want to get into a half court game vs Menlo. And they're lucky enough to be deep with guards, so they'll rotate through often to stay fresh and keep that pressure. But they must stay out of foul trouble too.

Shasta is a charter school correct? If they are, good for them. Charter schools have the potential of competing with private schools when it comes to grabbing kids from anywhere in the area. However, most do not have a home gym and that hurts their chances.

 

[blex20]

Shasta is a charter school correct? If they are, good for them. Charter schools have the potential of competing with private schools when it comes to grabbing kids from anywhere in the area. However, most do not have a home gym and that hurts their chances.

Yes, they are a charter school. But I will say, athletics is not on the list of things they look for when reviewing applicants. They've been very fortunate the last few years to accept some great players from the Daly City area. But it was all coincidental. I can tell you my daughter was 400+ on the wait list just 4 years ago and we stood no chance of getting in because their freshman class was only going to be about 140 kids that year. So we needed triple that number to turn down the opportunity to attend before we had a chance. They're graduating several quality players this year and I'm not sure what is awaiting on the JV squad so next year could start the decline if they don't have the players waiting to take that next step.

 

[CaliHoops23]

Yes, they are a charter school. But I will say, athletics is not on the list of things they look for when reviewing applicants. They've been very fortunate the last few years to accept some great players from the Daly City area. But it was all coincidental. I can tell you my daughter was 400+ on the wait list just 4 years ago and we stood no chance of getting in because their freshman class was only going to be about 140 kids that year. So we needed triple that number to turn down the opportunity to attend before we had a chance. They're graduating several quality players this year and I'm not sure what is awaiting on the JV squad so next year could start the decline if they don't have the players waiting to take that next step.

Sounds about right, pretty familiar as one of my kids also graduated from a charter school. I agree sports do not factor much and then there is the lottery aspect.

I assume the right coach in the right place, could probably make some things happen. I believe there is a similar situation already in place, surprised more coaches are not following that blueprint.

 

[pines6969]

It's time. It's past time. It's been a long and unfulfilling 35 years since a Central Coast Section public school girls' basketball team won (or even played for) a California state title. Ronald Reagen was in the White House back in 1988 when Burlingame won the CCS publics' sole state championship. By all rights, the state's equity-based seeding arrangement should give CCS publics a big boost in that direction. But, so far, it hasn't happened. Is this the year? Finally? We can only wait, wonder and, well, hope. Let the games begin.

 

[pines6969]

Thanks Colhenry for opening up this discussion, some good thoughts here.

I'll add my 2 cents. From my own limited experience with my own daughter who played bb and vb in middle school on the peninsula, it simply comes down to Volleyball is currently the cooler sport to play, and most of the popular girls would rather play VB than BB. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Unless you introduce basketball to your daughter at a very young age, volleyball is simply an easier sport to pickup and become decent at/even excel at than bb, imho. Especially if you are not particularly tall or very athletic. Add in variables such as:

1. having to run up and down the court all the while sweating (not to mention some girls play with makeup on).
2. the skill it takes to dribble, shoot the 3 pointer, get physical under the basket, play hard man to man defense, all adds up. And don't forget about getting hit in the face by the bb, or getting a jammed finger. not very fun for a teenage girl.
3. don't underestimate the uniforms the girls wear. bb uni's tend to be baggy and not very flattering, while vb uni's are the opposite. I've personally witnessed many male football/bb players come to watch the indoor girls vb games, simply to watch the girls.
4. beach volleyball is also becoming a more popular sport and was recently approved as an official CIF sport. There are more and more colleges offering scholarships for beach vb, and this will only heighten volleyball's popularity.
5. The AAU volleyball scene is probably similar to the AAU basketball scene for boys. It is big business, and very popular for teen girls. If you don't believe me, go check out some AAU indoor volleyball tournaments on the peninsula. They pack in the SJ convention center/San Mateo event center every spring.

Interesting dynamics from a societal/parental point of view for sure. Great topic.

 

[dnambisan]

Thanks Colhenry for opening up this discussion, some good thoughts here.

I'll add my 2 cents. From my own limited experience with my own daughter who played bb and vb in middle school on the peninsula, it simply comes down to Volleyball is currently the cooler sport to play, and most of the popular girls would rather play VB than BB. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Unless you introduce basketball to your daughter at a very young age, volleyball is simply an easier sport to pickup and become decent at/even excel at than bb, imho. Especially if you are not particularly tall or very athletic. Add in variables such as:

1. having to run up and down the court all the while sweating (not to mention some girls play with makeup on).
2. the skill it takes to dribble, shoot the 3 pointer, get physical under the basket, play hard man to man defense, all adds up. And don't forget about getting hit in the face by the bb, or getting a jammed finger. not very fun for a teenage girl.
3. don't underestimate the uniforms the girls wear. bb uni's tend to be baggy and not very flattering, while vb uni's are the opposite. I've personally witnessed many male football/bb players come to watch the indoor girls vb games, simply to watch the girls.
4. beach volleyball is also becoming a more popular sport and was recently approved as an official CIF sport. There are more and more colleges offering scholarships for beach vb, and this will only heighten volleyball's popularity.
5. The AAU volleyball scene is probably similar to the AAU basketball scene for boys. It is big business, and very popular for teen girls. If you don't believe me, go check out some AAU indoor volleyball tournaments on the peninsula. They pack in the SJ convention center/San Mateo event center every spring.

Interesting dynamics from a societal/parental point of view for sure. Great topic.

Very interesting info, thanks for sharing! And what you say here totally adds up for me.

On a different note, as a parent of two girls who decided to exclusively focus on playing basketball from their elementary school days (wasn't my call), with one of them playing for her high school team and the other one playing college ball, my biggest regret is not having them play volleyball **too** along with basketball from an early age.

Why, you ask?

In the past ten+ years of following girls hoops, I've noticed that whenever a girls basketball player stood out in my eyes when I watched any HS/AAU games, more often than not, I discover that either they grew up playing with their male siblings at an early age, or happened to be volleyball players too , or both. Unless they won the genetic lottery; one rarely, if ever, sees an actual "jump" shot from any girls basketball player who did not play against boys growing up or play volleyball. There is definitely something of value in playing different sports for sure. Thanks for listening, I will get off my soapbox now

 

[ankleassassin]

Thanks Colhenry for opening up this discussion, some good thoughts here.

I'll add my 2 cents. From my own limited experience with my own daughter who played bb and vb in middle school on the peninsula, it simply comes down to Volleyball is currently the cooler sport to play, and most of the popular girls would rather play VB than BB. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Unless you introduce basketball to your daughter at a very young age, volleyball is simply an easier sport to pickup and become decent at/even excel at than bb, imho. Especially if you are not particularly tall or very athletic. Add in variables such as:

1. having to run up and down the court all the while sweating (not to mention some girls play with makeup on).
2. the skill it takes to dribble, shoot the 3 pointer, get physical under the basket, play hard man to man defense, all adds up. And don't forget about getting hit in the face by the bb, or getting a jammed finger. not very fun for a teenage girl.
3. don't underestimate the uniforms the girls wear. bb uni's tend to be baggy and not very flattering, while vb uni's are the opposite. I've personally witnessed many male football/bb players come to watch the indoor girls vb games, simply to watch the girls.
4. beach volleyball is also becoming a more popular sport and was recently approved as an official CIF sport. There are more and more colleges offering scholarships for beach vb, and this will only heighten volleyball's popularity.
5. The AAU volleyball scene is probably similar to the AAU basketball scene for boys. It is big business, and very popular for teen girls. If you don't believe me, go check out some AAU indoor volleyball tournaments on the peninsula. They pack in the SJ convention center/San Mateo event center every spring.

Interesting dynamics from a societal/parental point of view for sure. Great topic.

this is gold. man post this on every social media you have. even #3 is hilarious and factual.

 

[ankleassassin]

Thanks Colhenry for opening up this discussion, some good thoughts here.

I'll add my 2 cents. From my own limited experience with my own daughter who played bb and vb in middle school on the peninsula, it simply comes down to Volleyball is currently the cooler sport to play, and most of the popular girls would rather play VB than BB. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Unless you introduce basketball to your daughter at a very young age, volleyball is simply an easier sport to pickup and become decent at/even excel at than bb, imho. Especially if you are not particularly tall or very athletic. Add in variables such as:

1. having to run up and down the court all the while sweating (not to mention some girls play with makeup on).
2. the skill it takes to dribble, shoot the 3 pointer, get physical under the basket, play hard man to man defense, all adds up. And don't forget about getting hit in the face by the bb, or getting a jammed finger. not very fun for a teenage girl.
3. don't underestimate the uniforms the girls wear. bb uni's tend to be baggy and not very flattering, while vb uni's are the opposite. I've personally witnessed many male football/bb players come to watch the indoor girls vb games, simply to watch the girls.
4. beach volleyball is also becoming a more popular sport and was recently approved as an official CIF sport. There are more and more colleges offering scholarships for beach vb, and this will only heighten volleyball's popularity.
5. The AAU volleyball scene is probably similar to the AAU basketball scene for boys. It is big business, and very popular for teen girls. If you don't believe me, go check out some AAU indoor volleyball tournaments on the peninsula. They pack in the SJ convention center/San Mateo event center every spring.

Interesting dynamics from a societal/parental point of view for sure. Great topic.

although boys and girls now wear short shorts while hooping.

 

[BigMann08]

I don't know what numbers you are looking at, but maybe you can share them. In women's sports CA is still very much a hotbed of talent pretty much across the board. In basketball (this is a womens basketball forum afterall) I would argue that CA is close to the top. And norcal specifically has seen a huge jump in the amount of talent playing (and succeeding) at the next level. Again, if you have evidence of the contrary I would love to see it

Indeed… CA is still a hotbed primarily due to its size…

But people are leaving California in droves. The AA population is also dwindling— which its community has played a major role in the success of women’s basketball. Families are moving to Texas, GA, NC, NV, and AZ. In 2018, nearly 100k AA left the state. And the numbers are continuing to increase.

You drive through parts of the Bay Area, Sacramento, Los Angeles County and you will see the affects. Entire neighborhoods have changed.

If South LA crumbles, the High School sports scene will fall off a cliff. The Bay Area is experiencing the affects right now.

 

[pines6969]

this is gold. man post this on every social media you have. even #3 is hilarious and factual.

Thanks Ankle (am I right in guessing that you broke a lot of ankles in your day?) lol

I'm not big on social media, but you have my permission to re-post my ramblings on yours if you agree to split the proceeds with me 50/50 when it goes viral! Lol

 

[ankleassassin]

Indeed… CA is still a hotbed primarily due to its size…

But people are leaving California in droves. The AA population is also dwindling— which its community has played a major role in the success of women’s basketball. Families are moving to Texas, GA, NC, NV, and AZ. In 2018, nearly 100k AA left the state. And the numbers are continuing to increase.

You drive through parts of the Bay Area, Sacramento, Los Angeles County and you will see the affects. Entire neighborhoods have changed.

If South LA crumbles, the High School sports scene will fall off a cliff. The Bay Area is experiencing the affects right now.

the freeways seem to still be packed. i wish more would head on out

 

[ankleassassin]

Thanks Ankle (am I right in guessing that you broke a lot of ankles in your day?) lol

I'm not big on social media, but you have my permission to re-post my ramblings on yours if you agree to split the proceeds with me 50/50 when it goes viral! Lol

Leimert Park's Finest AKA The Ankle Assassin. Unfortunately my knees wont let me do it anymore, but i can still hold court for 2 games at 24 hour fitness or LA Fitness when back home.

I only have a twitter account but Elon probably wont let me go viral.

 

[pines6969]

although boys and girls now wear short shorts while hooping.

The shorts are getting shorter, but I wouldn’t call them “short shorts”.

Still have a ways to go to hit the Bird/Magic hemline!!! 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂

 

[colhenrylives]

And so we are down to one. A single CCS public school remains in the hunt for a CIF basketball championship: Hillsdale of San Mateo. The Knights from the PAL will host Menlo School tonight at 7 in a NorCal Division IV semifinal contest. Hillsdale is the last hope to break a CCS public school drought that has lasted since 1988. All other CCS publics have fallen by the wayside. The last two, Summit Shasta of Daly City and Santa Cruz, flamed out earlier this week.

 

[CAPTAIN MORGAN]

Off topic here but is Summit Shasta a public school? In Jefferson School district?

 

[blex20]

Off topic here but is Summit Shasta a public school? In Jefferson School district?

Public, charter school. Not sure if it falls under Jefferson School district though