End the public drought
- Thread starter colhenrylives
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Out there somewhere Coach Picci is toasting with the 72 Dolphins.
CCS public boys have been more competitive in the CIF tourney than their female counterparts. That may be due to a significantly deeper supply of basketball players on the male side and, perhaps, the lack of a stifling club volleyball lure. CCS public boys have won five CIF titles since the state tournament was re-instated in 1981: Jefferson, 1988; Menlo-Atherton, 1989; Palo Alto, 1993; Santa Cruz, 2005; Palo Alto, 2006.
Ive been thinking about how to post my feelings on this subject.
The public school drought is clearly a CCS problem which is unique to the CCS. The WCAL absolutley dominates EVERYTHING. Its a rare occassion when a stud athlete doesnt end up at a WCAL school and when they do a transfer is usually coming. Its a league that affects its section like no other in the state. Not even the trinity league in football has this kind of affect in its section. Even if u separate the publics and privates the studs will still gravitate to the WCAL schools. And being honest here the public v private thing is not nearly as pronounced in the other NorCal sections.
Just an example over the last few yrs.
The EBAL(NCS) both boys and girls is arguably the best league in the NCS... full of publics.
Piedmont, Heritage
Oakland Tech, Oakland
Pleasant Valley
Folsom, Oakridge, McClatchy, Antelope, Vanden
Throw in the Central Section... CW, Clovis, Buchanan, Central, Carruthers
Basically what im saying is even if u were to separate the section from the WCAL would any publics win a state championships? Theyd still lose their athletes to the WCAL and they still face formitable publics outside the CCS.
So i guess what im trying to say is I dont have an answer...lol 🤷
The public school drought is clearly a CCS problem which is unique to the CCS. The WCAL absolutley dominates EVERYTHING. Its a rare occassion when a stud athlete doesnt end up at a WCAL school and when they do a transfer is usually coming. Its a league that affects its section like no other in the state. Not even the trinity league in football has this kind of affect in its section. Even if u separate the publics and privates the studs will still gravitate to the WCAL schools. And being honest here the public v private thing is not nearly as pronounced in the other NorCal sections.
Just an example over the last few yrs.
The EBAL(NCS) both boys and girls is arguably the best league in the NCS... full of publics.
Piedmont, Heritage
Oakland Tech, Oakland
Pleasant Valley
Folsom, Oakridge, McClatchy, Antelope, Vanden
Throw in the Central Section... CW, Clovis, Buchanan, Central, Carruthers
Basically what im saying is even if u were to separate the section from the WCAL would any publics win a state championships? Theyd still lose their athletes to the WCAL and they still face formitable publics outside the CCS.
So i guess what im trying to say is I dont have an answer...lol 🤷
I think it's just more than that. You're right that there are tons of kids playing volleyball but don't forget...Soccer is HUGE on the peninsula/southbay. In the last 10 years, they've had about 25 kids on the Youth National soccer teams, and two kids from the Bay (recently) on the Senior WNT. Everyone knows that the more affluent kids are playing soccer and the peninsula/south bay fit that demographic to a T.
Which is why I asked earlier why are the public girls teams in the CCS not as good as in other sections. Mitty, VC, SHC, SI, SF, PW, Menlo, and the new schools like Priory, Crystal Springs, Summit...all the teams have had traditional and newfound success...that's a lot of players trying to find the right spot/program.
Are there private schools in other sections? Yes, but in basketball, I'd argue that the majority of privates in the CCS are OVERALL better than in other sections. This impacts the public schools teams. Add in there that the coaching is marginal and there you have it. I also don't have the answer...just throwing crap to see if it sticks!
The WCAL is a premier private school league. There is nothing else like it in NorCal. Its formation, success, and open enrollment boundaries, support the reason to separate private and public schools. For the WCAL has no business competing in the CCS. Especially since they are siphoning the top athletes in its region and beyond.
Leagues similar to the WCAL could form from existing teams in the SJS, NCS, and possibly CS.
The SJS version of the WCAL may look like: Jesuit/St Francis, Christian Brothers, Capital Christian, St. Mary’s, Modesto Christian, Central Catholic, etc.
Or
The NCS version: Bishop O’Dowd, Moreau Catholic, Marin Catholic, DLS/Carondelet, Salesian, Cardinal Newman, etc.
Can leagues comprised of these teams compete with the WCAL? Perhaps, if they can successfully siphon the top talent in their perspective regions. Other factors may exist too: Coaching, commitment to sports, affordability, resources, facilities, outreach, commitment to diversity and inclusion etc.
Separating public’s and privates is a viable option. But as others have stated, there are some good public school teams in the SJS and NCS
Leagues similar to the WCAL could form from existing teams in the SJS, NCS, and possibly CS.
The SJS version of the WCAL may look like: Jesuit/St Francis, Christian Brothers, Capital Christian, St. Mary’s, Modesto Christian, Central Catholic, etc.
Or
The NCS version: Bishop O’Dowd, Moreau Catholic, Marin Catholic, DLS/Carondelet, Salesian, Cardinal Newman, etc.
Can leagues comprised of these teams compete with the WCAL? Perhaps, if they can successfully siphon the top talent in their perspective regions. Other factors may exist too: Coaching, commitment to sports, affordability, resources, facilities, outreach, commitment to diversity and inclusion etc.
Separating public’s and privates is a viable option. But as others have stated, there are some good public school teams in the SJS and NCS
Basketball is an interesting sport too, where one kid can be the difference in a league champion or section champion team and a state caliber team. If Jeremy Lin attended Sacred Heart Prep instead of Paly, Paly does not win the state title. SCVAL championship yes, and maybe even CCS, but not state. And yes, that is an extreme an example, but all it takes is one supremely talented kid to attend her local school to break that streak. If one of those skilled 6 footers from Mitty goes to her homeschool, has solid teammates, and good coaching, a CIF title is possible for sure.
Think about the roster at Mitty....Their talent level is so deep, that their backups could join a local public school team, and make an immediate impact on that school's ability to compete at a high level. Instead, you have a school that is three deep at the varsity level that is just crushing the opposition. I understand the attraction of attending MItty, but ultimately, those schools have branded themselves on the strength of their athletic programs, and since the mid 90's or so have convinced parents/kids in the South Bay and Peninsula that those schools are the only place to find athletic success., even when their "home school" is an excellent academic institution.
Sadly, I do not see any of this changing. At some point, there needs to be an acknowledgement that these schools are playing a different sport. I watched all 60 minutes of Cal-Hi Sports Bay Area last night, and the private schools dominated all of the playoff basketball coverage. Their players are just bigger and stronger than their public school counterparts.
Think about the roster at Mitty....Their talent level is so deep, that their backups could join a local public school team, and make an immediate impact on that school's ability to compete at a high level. Instead, you have a school that is three deep at the varsity level that is just crushing the opposition. I understand the attraction of attending MItty, but ultimately, those schools have branded themselves on the strength of their athletic programs, and since the mid 90's or so have convinced parents/kids in the South Bay and Peninsula that those schools are the only place to find athletic success., even when their "home school" is an excellent academic institution.
Sadly, I do not see any of this changing. At some point, there needs to be an acknowledgement that these schools are playing a different sport. I watched all 60 minutes of Cal-Hi Sports Bay Area last night, and the private schools dominated all of the playoff basketball coverage. Their players are just bigger and stronger than their public school counterparts.
For what it's worth, looking just at this year, it wasn't the WCAL as much as it was one extraordinary program/team in the WCAL.
The #2 team in the WCAL this year, SHC, lost in the CCS Open tournament to Paly (CCS public) and Pinewood (non-WCAL private) after a very fine season.
The #3 team in the WCAL this year, SI, went 12-15 and 0-3 in CCS Open with a loss to Paly, two losses to SRV (public) and a loss to Central (public)
The #4 WCAL team, St. Francis, didn't make CCS Open after a .500 year that included a loss to Hollister (CCS public).
The #5 WCAL team, Valley Christian, lost to Saratoga (CCS public), Branham (CCS public) and Christopher (CCS public) .
#6 Presentation, yikes, lost to Lowell (CCS public), Gunn (CCS public) Terra Nova (CCS public) and Jefferson (CCS public).
Maybe this was an aberration. Still, it would seem that in a given year, at least some CCS public school teams can compete with most WCAL private school teams. But no one, except perhaps Pinewood from time to time, can compete with Mitty. As a related and shocking note, Mitty has not lost a WCAL game since 2014-2015, when it lost once to SI and once to SHC. It has won 80 league games in a row since.
The #2 team in the WCAL this year, SHC, lost in the CCS Open tournament to Paly (CCS public) and Pinewood (non-WCAL private) after a very fine season.
The #3 team in the WCAL this year, SI, went 12-15 and 0-3 in CCS Open with a loss to Paly, two losses to SRV (public) and a loss to Central (public)
The #4 WCAL team, St. Francis, didn't make CCS Open after a .500 year that included a loss to Hollister (CCS public).
The #5 WCAL team, Valley Christian, lost to Saratoga (CCS public), Branham (CCS public) and Christopher (CCS public) .
#6 Presentation, yikes, lost to Lowell (CCS public), Gunn (CCS public) Terra Nova (CCS public) and Jefferson (CCS public).
Maybe this was an aberration. Still, it would seem that in a given year, at least some CCS public school teams can compete with most WCAL private school teams. But no one, except perhaps Pinewood from time to time, can compete with Mitty. As a related and shocking note, Mitty has not lost a WCAL game since 2014-2015, when it lost once to SI and once to SHC. It has won 80 league games in a row since.
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Sue goes with the "we will take them all" approach. Better Mitty has them all than to have to play against them...which of course leads to 3 levels (frosh, jv, varsity) of dominance every year. Perhaps maybe if instead of 40-45 ballplayers they only had 20-25 like most high schools the talent would be spread around more and some of the other schools would have better results. Although I'd imagine those players would still end up at 1 of the other WCAL privates or PW so it probably wouldnt make much(if any) of a difference with any of the publics.
If you can afford to pay (and there are a lot of affluent people in the Bay Area) and your kid is a baller, you can send them to a private school to ball. If you don't want to do that and you've invested a good amount into property within a highly sought after public school district, your option to ball out is with AAU, which also is not necessarily cheap if you factor in travel costs.
On social media you'll see endless amounts of basketball trainers and coach that do it for a living - after school's out at 3, they can coach and do their thing and make ends meet. I don't know of any but I'd imagine that the number of those kinds of coaches in the Peninsula or SF Bay Area is miniscule unless you are willing to commute even further to coach out here. For most coaches and trainers here, it's likely a side hustle or hobby. And as a hooper, if you can't get access to a program that gives you that ability to get gym space, repetition, coaching like some of these kids from other states do day in and day out without costing your parents a fortune you're at a disadvantage. That to me is why CA sports could be declining...and also why I believe NorCal is also struggling when it comes to publics vs SoCal and comparing assessing competitiveness.
Ima go out on a limb and say this. The WCAL is overrated. Outside of Mitty (in GBB) who else is even relevant? SI lost 4 straight CCS playoff games and first-round bounce in norcals with 12-15 team. how they got in the open (or norcals) with a losing record is beyond me. SHC went 2-2 in sections and got bounced in the first round of norcals. Saying there's nothing like it (again only talking hoops) is not doing the other leagues justice. The EBAL had a lot more overall success with Monte Vista, C-Let and SRV advancing further than most WCAL schools.
