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JBS vs. Soldiers

Guys,
I really appreciate the forum and environment that AAU creates and I'm sure it has its benefits for the kids exposure over the summer, but I gotta say I attended the Nike TOC in Phoenix last Dec and it appears that's the true forum that I would expect D1 college coaches to evaluate players. You have an ultra competitive arena, kids that really perform in a system, pressure situations, and I would assume the closest parallel to college environment. I would think that's the litmus test for young players wanting to move on.
 
College coaches can typically commit more time to recruiting during the summer than they can during their own season.
 
very true.. unless they are local or have the budget to send an assistant, given they dont have a game, i cant see nearly as many coaches being able to view in person compared to the summer time
 
It's amazing to see kids get the opportunity to play at the next level. I am affiliated with an AAU program and have no issues recognizing other programs and giving credit to AAU and high school coaches when credit is due. I know many of theses people you speak of and to me they're all great human beings that want the best for any kid and family. Of course people will always defend a kid or program if they feel it needs to be done. I am nowhere near the level of some of these coaches and will always try to learn from others to help the kids in my program get better. I think it would be amazing if we can get all directors and coaches together and run clinics for players and coaches as we all can learn something new. Hope everyone has a great day and keep supporting local kids on and off the court.
 
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I think high school and AAU are complementary means of evaluation. High school echoes the reality of college: games twice a week (I've never understood why playing five games in two days tells a coach much about how a player will perform with two days off between games); team-oriented environment (functioning within a group); a season that mirrors college (preseason, regular season, postseason, rather than a long series of similar events); distractions from the classroom. Club basketball is a much better tool for evaluating raw talent, especially one-on-one, and in the end, that's probably the single most important factor.

But a girl who only plays well in the summer setting might struggle in a college season, while that high school star may be outquicked when she's forced to play man, or can't be hidden on an inferior offensive player.

It's easier to evaluate during the summer, and that's what lots of coaches do -- but I think there's lots to be learned during the high school season as well.
 
I think high school and AAU are complementary means of evaluation. High school echoes the reality of college: games twice a week (I've never understood why playing five games in two days tells a coach much about how a player will perform with two days off between games); team-oriented environment (functioning within a group); a season that mirrors college (preseason, regular season, postseason, rather than a long series of similar events); distractions from the classroom. Club basketball is a much better tool for evaluating raw talent, especially one-on-one, and in the end, that's probably the single most important factor.

But a girl who only plays well in the summer setting might struggle in a college season, while that high school star may be outquicked when she's forced to play man, or can't be hidden on an inferior offensive player.

It's easier to evaluate during the summer, and that's what lots of coaches do -- but I think there's lots to be learned during the high school season as well.


Clay,

I agree with you.Those are very good points.

I think to really understand the young player you are recruiting, you should take a look at both their AAU and High School performances. The type of coaching and system can often limit a lot of a players abilities. But a coach or scout that understands talent, and how it will fit on their team, and within their particular system, is usually able to see beyond the limitations that prevent a player from expanding and growing their game. Seeing a player more than once can also be a better indicator, because a player can have an off game and be misjudged. Or a player can excel against an easy team and appear to be better than they are under tougher circumstances. Some players also get caught up in the politics that often surrounds many high school sports.
 
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I think most of the time AAU on the last day of a tournament is better the watch a State Champion. Most of the top are even match as in depth wise. The only difference is some coaches coach offense and others coach defense. Then there are coach that can coach both. During these game when have evenly match teams you can see how good players real ability as a player. Most of the top teams coaches coach all year around.

Let's talk about high school basketball these days. Some coaches play with politics because they know if a player transfers they will have to sit out for some time. It's is very rare to watch good game in high unless you are watching teams that are in the top 30 in NorCal playing against each other. How can scout calibrate a player when they aren't playing anyone good.
 
Agree about the level of high school play -- but as you point out, it's pretty much the same in club ball. Until the good teams play on Sunday, the competition generally isn't that great.

Which brings me back to another point: The way summer tournaments are constructed, you finally get good teams playing each other on the last day, after the girls have played four or five games in two days. This disproportionately rewards those girls who are gifted with more stamina, a factor that doesn't matter in college because no one plays five games in two days.

Some players are much better in their first game, for whatever reason, and don't show as well in games four and five. But from the college perspective, games four and five don't matter because that situation never arises in college.

The bottom line is that good games are hard to find, and that evaluation can be tricky. Equally, though, there are more D1 scholarships than D1 players, so everyone who deserves one will find a home at the next level.
 
I think the girls tournaments need to be played more like the boys tournament i.e., pool play. The top teams are all put in equally competitive pools to make the games more even and competitive and then on the last day it’s bracket play. All of the top teams go into the top bracket by seeding and nobody is penalized for finishing fourth in their pool play. On the first day of the tournament you get great games and on the last day of the tournament you get great games.

The reality is college coaches love these big events. They would rather go to an Major event and see 200 kids over four days than go, school to school to see one kid right in the middle of the college season.

High school basketball is where the teaching is, the place where she/he is suppose to learn the game. Travel is just that the viewing period. The events are to see what you know, how skilled you are and your knowledge of the game the things that hopefully your high school coach has instilled in you.
 
Great point ... and of course the college coaches love the big events, because it makes their lives much easier. But I think the system should be more focused on the players and families than the college coaches.

For example, wouldn't it be easier on players' bodies if they played fewer games? And aren't injuries an all-too-common occurrence? Wouldn't it be cheaper for families if coaches traveled to them rather than vice versa? After all, there are a lot fewer coaches than players, and most of them not only make good money, but also have travel budgets.

But as long as the NCAA and the colleges and the coaches control the system so dictatorially, families and players will be just product, to be chewed up, digested and excreted after four years of indentured servitude.
 
Great point ... and of course the college coaches love the big events, because it makes their lives much easier. But I think the system should be more focused on the players and families than the college coaches.

For example, wouldn't it be easier on players' bodies if they played fewer games? And aren't injuries an all-too-common occurrence? Wouldn't it be cheaper for families if coaches traveled to them rather than vice versa? After all, there are a lot fewer coaches than players, and most of them not only make good money, but also have travel budgets.

But as long as the NCAA and the colleges and the coaches control the system so dictatorially, families and players will be just product, to be chewed up, digested and excreted after four years of indentured servitude.


Much of that is hard to deny. But parents and kids can buck the system by making better choices. But it's easier to just go with the flow and buy into the wrong dreams and wrong guidance. I have said it time after time..... The whole process is questionable..... Games are for parents enjoyment, kids exploitation, club directors to build their brand, obtain or maintain their Nike/Adidas sponsorship, and Nike to keep selling product and dominating the market place.

To make things even further suspect with the rapid advancement of technology shrinking the world, our dated educational system needs a massive overhaul with regard to the curriculum taught in both grade school and colleges. We have far too many college grads looking for jobs after graduation than there are jobs to fill. Then try to imagine if the debt that we owe gets called upon by our debtors? Answer...... we need more entrepreneurs, innovators, and creators, than we do followers and job seekers.

Our sports coaches may soon all need to be certified life coaches to ensure they have our children's best interest in mind?

And sports should be a game that teaches young folks how to make good decisions, create healthy lifestyles, maintain good attitudes, work well in group/team environments, and placing value on giving discipline efforts to obtain desired outcomes. And continued improvement not just about the strongest only defining victory.

But instead of the focusing on empowering the youth (who are the future) in school and sports, we'd prefer to micromanage kids, bully, and make them miserable by promoting unhealthy competition geared to exclude instead of including as many as possible. Rat racing to nowhere. Slow down with unhealthy divisive competition. Despite the scoreboard, everyone can define their own victory and.... "Win Anyway" Cheer for each other's success. There is more than enough to go around.
 
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Paytc

That sounds more like everybody gets a medal. This world, this great country of ours is brutal and competitive and if the kids don't learn to compete and push through adversity they won't survive. It can't always be warm and cuddle, mommy and daddy will not always be there to catch them
 
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But as long as the NCAA and the colleges and the coaches control the system so dictatorially, families and players will be just product, to be chewed up, digested and excreted after four years of indentured servitude.
I agree with you also Clay. So I'll add a bit of detail based on the experiences of some of the kids I have helped over the years. The amount of time these scholarship athletes are expected to commit to their sport, absolutely comes at the expense of their education. In reality, we should more appropriately call student-athletes on scholarship "athlete-students".

Now we all know of some athlete-students who aren't really interested in the academic side of the equation. That's to be expected, and the colleges will cover for them with tutors and an easier curriculum, which allows them to continue playing (and studying).These aren't the athlete-students I'm concerned about, because without a scholarship many of them would not choose to go to college, or would decide they couldn't afford it becuse they're not that interested. So for these athlete-students, the situation works in their favor -- they get 4 - 5 years of free college, Which results in a significantly better education than they otherwise would have gotten.

The athlete-students I'm concerned about are those who ARE interested in the academics, but who don't get the quality of edcation they were hoping for because of all the time they must commit to their sport. (And before anyone comments on the NCAA limits on practice and training time, please understand that those rules are never observed by coaches or players, and also never enforced by the NCAA.) These athlete-students often aren't allowed to pursue the major they want, because the coaches think it is too demanding. And they sometimes can't take the classes they want, because the class would conflict with the team's practice/game schedule, or because the coaches feel the professor is not sympathetic to the special needs of athlete-students. Finally, athlete-students are often required to spend their summers on campus, training and taking classes. Unfortunately, this restricts them from gaining valuable summer job and internship experience. For these reasons and more, the result is that these athlete-students get an inferior education when compared to their non-athlete classmates.

Anyway, I could go on and on about this topic, but I just wanted to mention it so that parents of HS athletes might consider whether playing sports in college is really the right choice for their kids. For many it is. But for some others, the upside of a scholarship isn't actually worth the downside of being "chewed up, digested and excreted after four years of indentured servitude."
 
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Paytc

That sounds more like everybody gets a medal. This world, this great country of ours is brutal and competitive and if the kids don't learn to compete and push through adversity they won't survive. It can't always be warm and cuddle, mommy and daddy will not always be there to catch them

Azanna,

That is one way to look at it. I tend to look at it with less need for negative competition. Not sure this country is great, and without fault, or room for improvement. And I understand haters are in the drivers seat, but the world is constantly spinning. Even the haters will eventually be replaced. And I am far from a hater and more of a congratulator of those that are winning against all odds and those who are great. Not those who are cheated for or forced into a champions seat they didn't earn, and don't deserve.

I just realize everyone will not reach a level of greatness, but they can still find a reason to feel good about themselves. And less need to hate the champions. No everyone should not be given a medal or anything without earning it. And you shouldn't be taught and encouraged to hate those that do earn the medals and championships that you may never win.

It's not about mommy and daddy being there to catch anyone. It's about mommy and daddy realizing all children are blessed differently. When mommy and daddy see that their child is not as good as say another person's child, mommy and daddy should not try to put their child in front of the more gifted child just because mommy and daddy have the authority to do so. Mommy and daddy should encourage all children to succeed not just mommy and daddy's own child. And accept and appreciate whatever level mommy and daddy's child is able to reach as long as the child keeps striving to improve with a good attitude and a commitment to getting better. Because being your best, at whatever level that is, is your own personal victory. Be you, because you can't be anyone else.
 
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Guys,
I really appreciate the forum and environment that AAU creates and I'm sure it has its benefits for the kids exposure over the summer, but I gotta say I attended the Nike TOC in Phoenix last Dec and it appears that's the true forum that I would expect D1 college coaches to evaluate players. You have an ultra competitive arena, kids that really perform in a system, pressure situations, and I would assume the closest parallel to college environment. I would think that's the litmus test for young players wanting to move on.

Sjbasket,

I also attended the same event in Arizona and agree that level of competition was as good as it gets in women's prep basketball. College coaches if available should be there or send someone on their behalf if they are unable to attend. But again, young players should be watched in both AAU and high school settings because the same player may shine better under different coaching circumstances with a different supporting cast. That way you can make the truest evaluation. And better see how the player can fit into your team or system.
 
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For many, if it's financially feasible, Division III is a much better option. There, kids are truly student-athletes, and in many ways, the rewards are just as great.

I've told this story before, but it bears repeating: I had a player at Campolindo who was a borderline D1 player. If she'd pushed it, she probably could have gotten a ride somewhere. Luckily, they had some money, and the D3 school made some things work.

So she was a major contributor all four years, was all-league as a junior and senior, played in the NCAA tournament twice and had a great experience.

A player considered to be just as good if not better than her in high school went to a D1 school and dropped off the map after two years.
 
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For many, if it's financially feasible, Division III is a much better option. There, kids are truly student-athletes, and in many ways, the rewards are just as great.

I've told this story before, but it bears repeating: I had a player at Campolindo who was a borderline D1 player. If she'd pushed it, she probably could have gotten a ride somewhere. Luckily, they had some money, and the D3 school made some things work.

So she was a major contributor all four years, was all-league as a junior and senior, played in the NCAA tournament twice and had a great experience.

A player considered to be just as good if not better than her in high school went to a D1 school and dropped off the map after two years.

Yes sir ! Again good points Clay. Thanks for sharing the story. Getting all caught up in the negative side of competition is not what competition is suppose to be about. And letting anyone outside of yourself define your victories may be the quickest road to failure. You must set realistic goals and worry about your own success more than you worry about keeping up with anyone else. There have been many division 2 and division 3 players who were better than many division 1 players. Because some division 1 players were just big bodies with very limited skill picked up to serve the purpose of adding a big body. So whatever size, skill, dedication, and drive you have been blessed with just make the best of it. If you get to play the sport you love and get a college experience and education paid for or not, Division 1,2 or 3, enjoy every step in your journey.
 
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Get in where you fit in division 1, 2, 3 or NAIA at the end of the day it's about a Degree and a great college experience.
 
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Clay
  • You are right but you know most of these players that don't stay because the can live up to the hype. That's not the players fault thats the coach or their pagents taught work within the system or D1 team. Players need to understand a full ride is just like a job. If your not producing you probably be sent home. That's a harsh reality about college D1 sports. Players need to know what they are getting in too. But dropping down a division or two doesn't mean a thing as long as you are getting a degree out of it!!!!!!!!
 
It's definitely a job, and kids don't get that they are the employee -- and if they don't produce, the boss will get fired. Unless he fires them first.

If you get a scholarship, that's worth around $200,000, and you pack your lunch and go to work every day to earn that 200 large. It's not a game any more ... D1 full-scholarship athletes are professionals, plain and simple.
 
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Sometimes players and parents think of the scholarship as the crowning jewel when the reality the work has really just begun. Often times the performance does not match the hype and we see transfers.
 
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