Mitty vs. Moreau Catholic
- Thread starter Streak One
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Moreau Catholic leads 16-10. Oscar Frayer has made 3 3s. Kone has 6 points and has been guarding Frayer
Moreau Catholic leads 17-14 end Q1. I didn't have Mitty missing a shot until their last possession, but had seven turnovers. Kone and Frayer are special talents. Not breaking any news there.
I'm surprised kone doesn't have more offers. Basically Moreau has nobody to guard him. If he doesn't go for 25 and 20 I will be shocked.
Mitty just needs to handle the initial press. Once they beat that the opportunities are there.
Mitty just needs to handle the initial press. Once they beat that the opportunities are there.
Completely agree Larry. Kone has been dominant. Easy High Major guy. Schools have been slow on him for some reason.
Damari Milstead just had a steal and score and then drained a deep three.
Fun game with Moreau leading 29-22 with 1:08 left in the half.
Damari Milstead just had a steal and score and then drained a deep three.
Fun game with Moreau leading 29-22 with 1:08 left in the half.
29-22 MC. Milstead is another one who has a high ceiling.
Mitty doesn't have the guards they've had in past.
Mitty doesn't have the guards they've had in past.
Moreau leads 31-27 at halftime. Milstead, Frayer and Kone are all high level guys.
Getting a great look at some of the top 2016s in NorCal today.
Getting a great look at some of the top 2016s in NorCal today.
He's raw on the offensive end but has a body and athleticism that could fit in any Program in the country. He moves well and plays hard. I'm going out on a limb and saying it's upstairs. I will leave it at that. He will have Pac12 offers by summer.
Mitty really hanging around. Frayer reminds me of Dwayne Polee. Jumping jack. (Although frayer is much better offensively)
DLS is the best team I watched. I say they beat monte vista by double digits.
DLS is the best team I watched. I say they beat monte vista by double digits.
Moreau Catholic won 68-67. Milstead had four points in the final two minutes to put Moreau back in front.
Fun basketball game.
Fun basketball game.
MC has no shot selection. They get away with it because they have 2 pac12 players and a couple other kids that are super athletic.
Much is a 6"7 D1 soph prospect. He's not just some kid who didn't play. He is there most skilled offensive player by far.
He makes a big difference by not playing.
Much is a 6"7 D1 soph prospect. He's not just some kid who didn't play. He is there most skilled offensive player by far.
He makes a big difference by not playing.
It is puzzling to me when you say Oscar Frayer is a special talent.... very overrated!! He's super athletic but his not a great basketball player, when you go 1-6 at the free throw line and take questionable shots its puzzling. What defines a talent? Someone who has a 40 inch vertical? Please stop with the hype because it's not the true indication of the player!!
Yes Much has been hurt even before the Bells game. I think hes gonna be out for a while. And yes he would have made a huge difference. He has been their second leading scorer and thats why he played sparingly against the Bells. He takes pressure off of Kone. Guard play as far as ball handling is a big problem for Mitty. Monroe had 13 points in the second half, but was scoreless in the first. As far as Fryar goes I can see the potential. He needs some polishing, but that will come. Millsted is a solid pg that can get to the rack at will. Its funny to see how bad Mitty was vs the pressure and to only lose this game by 2. If their was no scoreboard it would seem like Moreou killed them. Good game never the less.
A lot of you guys are overlooking the fact that many of these kids are either Soph or Jr's. That is just scary. Certainly some are better athletes than basketball players at this point in there career but you can't teach being an athlete. The basketball stuff will come if the kids are willing to put in the time. Frayer has the athleticism to play for Kentucky. He's that special. He's looks 6"7 to me and who knows if he doesn't grow another inch or 2. He hit his first 3 3's that were contested by a 6"9 240 D1 kid. (Kone). Cuonzo Martin probably knows a little more than most of us on this board. I'm just guessing.
Now back to the game. Is MC well coached? No. Do they take horrible shots? yes. If they run into a team like Bishop Monty will get blown out of the gym? Yes. IF much plays Mitty wins by double figures. Yes.
Like I said the best team was DLS that I saw. Chaminade had a very good resume coming into this game. They have a 2 pt loss to a very good Cathedral (LA) team that nearly knocked off top 10 nationally ranked Fairfax LA. With exception of Mitty and coach Kennedy this was the only game I saw any real coaching. The other games were just throw the ball out there and launch bad shots. It was the worse MLK tourney that I can recall. Hurt not having ODOWD in the house.
Now back to the game. Is MC well coached? No. Do they take horrible shots? yes. If they run into a team like Bishop Monty will get blown out of the gym? Yes. IF much plays Mitty wins by double figures. Yes.
Like I said the best team was DLS that I saw. Chaminade had a very good resume coming into this game. They have a 2 pt loss to a very good Cathedral (LA) team that nearly knocked off top 10 nationally ranked Fairfax LA. With exception of Mitty and coach Kennedy this was the only game I saw any real coaching. The other games were just throw the ball out there and launch bad shots. It was the worse MLK tourney that I can recall. Hurt not having ODOWD in the house.
Larry,
I had to go to Maxpreps.com and do a little research before responding. In Coach Knight's tenure at Moreau his teams have beaten; Mitty (Tim Kennedy), Salesian twice (Bill Mellis), Newark (Craig Ashmore), Half Moon Bay (Forslund) Folsom (Wall) and when he was at Fremont High in Oakland beat DLS (Allocco), Castro Valley (Nick Jones) and Mack (Dwight).
That is a pretty good resume of what you would call great/good coaches in the bay area. From watching Frank since his Fremont playing days he is a dam good coach. It may not be your cup of tea (ala McKnight at Mater Dei Swafford at Sac High or Joey at Sheldon) but the proof is in the putting. Moreau is much better after retaining him as coach.
On another note I do think Much would have made a difference and possible led to a win by Mitty.
I had to go to Maxpreps.com and do a little research before responding. In Coach Knight's tenure at Moreau his teams have beaten; Mitty (Tim Kennedy), Salesian twice (Bill Mellis), Newark (Craig Ashmore), Half Moon Bay (Forslund) Folsom (Wall) and when he was at Fremont High in Oakland beat DLS (Allocco), Castro Valley (Nick Jones) and Mack (Dwight).
That is a pretty good resume of what you would call great/good coaches in the bay area. From watching Frank since his Fremont playing days he is a dam good coach. It may not be your cup of tea (ala McKnight at Mater Dei Swafford at Sac High or Joey at Sheldon) but the proof is in the putting. Moreau is much better after retaining him as coach.
On another note I do think Much would have made a difference and possible led to a win by Mitty.
Fentons- You can't compare MC before the entire AAU sqaud came over to that school. They were a nobody for 20 + years. You got 2 major college players and a couple other kids that will play somewhere in college. Talent, talent , talent. It wins HS games. Mitty is way down this year. How they were even in that game is beyond me. I looked up and they were winning late in the 4th. Like somebody else said they couldnt believe it either. I'm not sold on MC coaching. Sorry. Call me crazy.
Larry
Ive agreed and disagreed with you over the years here on this forum and either way the conversation allows for input from both sides. Most high school teams have AAU players (especially since the growth of AAU in the late 80's. Salesian was horrible in basketball prior to Mellis coming he is a great coach that had plenty of AAU players on his team. So history of a school and AAU players in my opinion does not give enough data to determine if a coach is good or not.
What I look for is wins against top coaches, having a competitive team at multiple schools/institutions, track record of sending kids to college (for basketball or not), Keeping player succeeding in classroom, and making sure players are better when they leave than when they came in. All these things are done by all the coaches I mentioned above in my last post.
I know you love Cardinal Newman (you should you went there), I know you love Allocco and Wall, I heard you rave about many coaches (that all have the same thing in common, but that is for another post) at the high school level. I guess my question is what is your litmus test on "well coached"? I gave you mine. Im curious.
Ive agreed and disagreed with you over the years here on this forum and either way the conversation allows for input from both sides. Most high school teams have AAU players (especially since the growth of AAU in the late 80's. Salesian was horrible in basketball prior to Mellis coming he is a great coach that had plenty of AAU players on his team. So history of a school and AAU players in my opinion does not give enough data to determine if a coach is good or not.
What I look for is wins against top coaches, having a competitive team at multiple schools/institutions, track record of sending kids to college (for basketball or not), Keeping player succeeding in classroom, and making sure players are better when they leave than when they came in. All these things are done by all the coaches I mentioned above in my last post.
I know you love Cardinal Newman (you should you went there), I know you love Allocco and Wall, I heard you rave about many coaches (that all have the same thing in common, but that is for another post) at the high school level. I guess my question is what is your litmus test on "well coached"? I gave you mine. Im curious.
Fentons- I respect you. One guy who really knows the game. I thought I would start with that. And your criteria is legit. I can't argue that.
I guess its simple for me. I look at teams that win consistently year after year even when they are suppose to be in rebuild mode. Some years its not there and coaches adjust and find ways to win. I'm always amazed on how they pull this off. Mitty was a good game to apply this. Even though they lost you are saying to yourself how and hell is this close? They got killed by there guards. Steal after steal. Look at Monte Vista. They were 33-1 last year state champs. Lost 3 kids to college ball and probably 75% of there offense. Most thought they would be down. Tell them that. Newark is having a tough year but I really like Ashmore. He's very proven even with some teams that haven't been that talented. Campo is another team. Did anybody really think they would be that good after losing a D1 player in O'reilly? Personally I didn't. Modesto Christian is a school that wins consistently but historically has needed loads of talent and transfers. I think that changes with the younger coach. (former player who I'm drawing a blank on) Alloco looks like he's finally adjusting a little on offense to this years team. They don't have a true post presence which is obvious after watching them last night. But they are fast and can get up the floor. Its nice to see them putting up more shots and playing a little faster when they need to. A good adjustment by a great coach. Half Moon Bay is another quality program. Not exactly a mecca for talent.
I guess its simple for me. I look at teams that win consistently year after year even when they are suppose to be in rebuild mode. Some years its not there and coaches adjust and find ways to win. I'm always amazed on how they pull this off. Mitty was a good game to apply this. Even though they lost you are saying to yourself how and hell is this close? They got killed by there guards. Steal after steal. Look at Monte Vista. They were 33-1 last year state champs. Lost 3 kids to college ball and probably 75% of there offense. Most thought they would be down. Tell them that. Newark is having a tough year but I really like Ashmore. He's very proven even with some teams that haven't been that talented. Campo is another team. Did anybody really think they would be that good after losing a D1 player in O'reilly? Personally I didn't. Modesto Christian is a school that wins consistently but historically has needed loads of talent and transfers. I think that changes with the younger coach. (former player who I'm drawing a blank on) Alloco looks like he's finally adjusting a little on offense to this years team. They don't have a true post presence which is obvious after watching them last night. But they are fast and can get up the floor. Its nice to see them putting up more shots and playing a little faster when they need to. A good adjustment by a great coach. Half Moon Bay is another quality program. Not exactly a mecca for talent.
Larry Legend
What's puzzling to me is you say nothin about Bill Mellis, and according to the program they had five freshmen and one senior on that team yesterday. In addition, I got a chance to see their game on Cube and I thought it was an eye opener!! They play hard nose defense, they run sets and they're well prepared, and their guard play was pretty damn good.
What's puzzling to me is you say nothin about Bill Mellis, and according to the program they had five freshmen and one senior on that team yesterday. In addition, I got a chance to see their game on Cube and I thought it was an eye opener!! They play hard nose defense, they run sets and they're well prepared, and their guard play was pretty damn good.
Loving- Salesian played really well yesterday. The addition of (i can't remember the kids name now!) gave a huge presence. You can almost never count out a Mellis coached team because he is really good!
Larry- Everything you said above on your litmus test can be applied to Knight at MC. His 1st year at Moreau (with no AAU players as you say) He won 18 games and was HAAL Coach of the Year. Again we can agree to disagree and I'm not trying to argue with you at all but Ive seen some really good coaches in my years and some really bad ones and I think Knight is more on the good side than bad.
On another note it Looks like Newman will play all home games in the NCS playoffs and probably run across Salesian or Half Moon Bay. Which ever one I will come to that game and meet you in person. Snack bar hot-dog and Coke on me!
Larry- Everything you said above on your litmus test can be applied to Knight at MC. His 1st year at Moreau (with no AAU players as you say) He won 18 games and was HAAL Coach of the Year. Again we can agree to disagree and I'm not trying to argue with you at all but Ive seen some really good coaches in my years and some really bad ones and I think Knight is more on the good side than bad.
On another note it Looks like Newman will play all home games in the NCS playoffs and probably run across Salesian or Half Moon Bay. Which ever one I will come to that game and meet you in person. Snack bar hot-dog and Coke on me!
Mellis is a great coach. Sorry I missed that one. He's up there with all of the rest. I love watching Salesian play but I didn't make it in time for that game. Even when Jabari Bird was there he didn't allow his MCD All American to play out of their system. I respect that a lot.
Fentons- Sounds good! Salesian or St Pats could give Newman trouble. They don't match up that well with quick/athletic teams. They did knock off St Mary's by 1 but that was a toss up. HMB would be down the line in Norcals. Anybody see Liberty Ranch play ? They are #1 in D4 in Norcal. Honestly I've barely even heard of the school.
I"m still shocked by MV knocking off DLS.
Fentons- Sounds good! Salesian or St Pats could give Newman trouble. They don't match up that well with quick/athletic teams. They did knock off St Mary's by 1 but that was a toss up. HMB would be down the line in Norcals. Anybody see Liberty Ranch play ? They are #1 in D4 in Norcal. Honestly I've barely even heard of the school.
I"m still shocked by MV knocking off DLS.
The "best coach" discussion is always an interesting one and can be looked at vastly differently depending on your perspective. Regarding Frank Knight, I would put him in the "good coach" category whatever that means. An area he excels is molding talent and creating a good rotation, which is tough to do especially with a young team. In most of these cases, players want to be the stars and get their own recognition.
Streak,
I would agree with your assessment on Knight. The problem with these arguments is its all (sans the top 5% of coaches) perspective and what you view as effective. I loved watching the LMU teams in the late 80's, the whole we are going to take more shots than you-we will shoot after the 1st pass past half court system because it worked for his teams (Bo Kimball, Hank Gathers , T. Lowery) I also enjoy watching Shaka Smart teams that run and press and break almost every shell defensive rule but is highly effective.
Being a good coach is knowing your teams strengths and weakness and build your system or program on that. Its funny how we say Allocco is loosening the reigns and letting them run more. Its because he has an athletic team, and he is a good coach. I think there is a double standard that says because you have good athletes your less likely to be a good coach. I disagree with that.
I would agree with your assessment on Knight. The problem with these arguments is its all (sans the top 5% of coaches) perspective and what you view as effective. I loved watching the LMU teams in the late 80's, the whole we are going to take more shots than you-we will shoot after the 1st pass past half court system because it worked for his teams (Bo Kimball, Hank Gathers , T. Lowery) I also enjoy watching Shaka Smart teams that run and press and break almost every shell defensive rule but is highly effective.
Being a good coach is knowing your teams strengths and weakness and build your system or program on that. Its funny how we say Allocco is loosening the reigns and letting them run more. Its because he has an athletic team, and he is a good coach. I think there is a double standard that says because you have good athletes your less likely to be a good coach. I disagree with that.
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