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Top 20 NorCal teams

northbaybbguru said:
WOW!!!:eek:

100 league games in a row for BOD? that's impressive...

and I thought CN's current 73 game league winning streak was a good stat..lol

Dang...CN has to go 2 more yrs of undefeated to match that.
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BOD plays in a weak league and hasn't been battle tested in quite some time. It will continue to dominate until they decide to go independent like MM and CLet. It was like in the 90's when Branson went on a 100+ game winning streak in the old Bay Counties League. Best athletes, no competition. CV was the only competition they've had in the last 3-4 years and now they're starting from square one again.

Wouldn't it be pretty awesome if there was an ECAL? BOD, CLet, Salesian, St. Joes, Moreau (they could be very good with the right person there), and SMB...it'd be a great league and could rival WCAL. And don't give me the driving distance thing because SI, SHC traveling to the south bay (and vice versa) in rush hour traffic is no joke.
 
Norcal_Fan said:
Wouldn't it be pretty awesome if there was an ECAL? BOD, CLet, Salesian, St. Joes, Moreau (they could be very good with the right person there), and SMB...it'd be a great league and could rival WCAL. And don't give me the driving distance thing because SI, SHC traveling to the south bay (and vice versa) in rush hour traffic is no joke.
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It’s been done. There used to be a Catholic Athletic League (CAL), of which most or all of those teams were members, but it disbanded back in the 80’s at the behest of the NCS for some reason. Just as the De La Salle juggernaut was in its infancy.

In fact, most of the current WCAL members (boys only at that time I assume) were part of the old CAL until they actually spun off what is now the WCAL from the CAL in the late 60’s. I believe Marin Catholic was also a member. Poster Colhenrylives is a walking encyclopedia of those days and that league and can provide much more insight if he sees this.
 
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CityBoy415 said:
No SHC in your top 20? Interesting....
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I have them making my preseason top 20. And I think on Northbaybbguru's list 3-15 are inter exchangeable. I'd also bump Salesian up ahead of Carondelet and Mitty. But in all fairness to all everyone is just speculating. Then of course no one knows if injuries or suspensions will creep in and unfortunately play a role.
 
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One interesting aspect of all this is that, for the first time in many years, there is no overwhelming favorite or favorites for the Open title. Yes, Pinewood is very good, and so is Mitty and so is Salesian, but none are starting in the top ten in the nation, and there's reason to believe they could be beaten by any number of teams having one of those nights.

The flip side of that is that winning Division I, with one more game to play, might not be any easier than winning the Open, as there are plenty of quality teams.

Again, no one wants to go to Mitty in the first round of the playoffs (or Pinewood or Salesian or SMS) but it doesn't have that aura of certain doom that it had in the past five years or so.
 
observer22 said:
It’s been done. There used to be a Catholic Athletic League (CAL), of which most or all of those teams were members, but it disbanded back in the 80’s at the behest of the NCS for some reason. Just as the De La Salle juggernaut was in its infancy.

In fact, most of the current WCAL members (boys only at that time I assume) were part of the old CAL until they actually spun off what is now the WCAL from the CAL in the late 60’s. I believe Marin Catholic was also a member. Poster Colhenrylives is a walking encyclopedia of those days and that league and can provide much more insight if he sees this.
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You are pretty much on the money here. In spite of strident protests by the East Bay CAL members in the late 1980s, the NCS forced the CAL's dissolution, melding all of the papal powers into public school leagues. That decision left the WCAL, and later the WBAL, as the two major all-private/parochial prep leagues in NorCal. Both of those leagues are part of CCS. Which makes that section a true aberration in the northern half of the Golden State, particularly when it comes to female sports. Way back in the Ice Age before the invention of the wheel, the old CAL was indeed an all-male circuit that, at one time, stretched from Marin County, Berkeley and Stockton to San Francisco, San Mateo and San Jose. Programs came and went. Finally, in the 1960s as the Bay Area grew dramatically, Mitty, St. Ignatius and Sacred Heart were added and the CAL was essentially spit in half, West and East. Also at that time, CCS became a separate section, a spinoff of NCS. The WCAL did not add girls' athletics to its core mission until the turn of the current century. The WBAL is, in essence, a spinoff of several private/parochial leagues (one of them was the Girls Private Schools League, which included two hoops powerhouses, Menlo School and Sacred Heart Prep).
 
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Oh, one more thing for some added perspective. CCS has gone to great pains to quarantine the private/parochials from the publics as much as possible (not always successfully by the way). The influence of the WCAL and, to a lesser degree, the WBAL, has been a huge factor in CCS decisions regarding league membership and playoffs, especially in major sports. One example: Valley Christian. This is a non-Catholic outfit that was basically forced to join the WCAL, again near the turn of the century. VC had been part of a South Bay public school league but its domination had become too onerous. So it was moved into the WCAL which, now, is referred to by some wits as the MCAL, or the Mostly Catholic Athletic League.
 
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Norcal_Fan said:
BOD, CLet, Salesian, St. Joes, Moreau (they could be very good with the right person there), and SMB...it'd be a great league and could rival WCAL.
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how about MM? I believe St. Miramonte was an early christian martyr, accused of recruiting out-of-town javelin throwers
 
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mkbgdns said:
how about MM? I believe St. Miramonte was an early christian martyr, falsely accused of recruiting out-of-town javelin throwers
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LOL christian martyr falsely accused...All I have to say is look at that Miramonte roster and tell me how many are actually in MM's zone/district and tell me it's not recruiting. Daryl did the same thing with his Orinda Magic team and look what happened to him. Nobody talks about the color factor...one person gets fired the other one on a pedestal. you do the math....smh
 
Norcal_Fan said:
tell me it's not recruiting
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honestly, I don't know. but having a superb program and drawing interest from talented kids isn't recruiting. I don't imagine de la salle spends a lot of effort recruiting football players. although there's no comparison between the successes of the programs.

as a conciliatory gesture, I've edited the word "falsely" out of the post. I didn't know St. Miramonte (not THAT old), just relying on Vatican propaganda. you're right, overreach on my part.
 
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Back on point, the north runs through San Jose, it is Mitty's to lose. Best coach, best program, best school, best players. Stay healthy and no untimely foul outs and life is good for the Monarchs.
 
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And to follow up with CityBoy, Yes, SHC should be in the top 20 and really the top 10-15. So what if teams have players returning, they are returning to a team that did not advance far enough last year so what puts them over the hump is age and players graduating?

SHC will be in the mix when the dust settles. But then again who is really ranking these teams anyway?
 
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It's always such a hoot to read outrage about a public school somehow recruiting athletes. When a private/parochial benefits from having no enrollment boundaries whatsoever, no one bats an eye. It's a given.
 
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colhenrylives said:
It's always such a hoot to read outrage about a public school somehow recruiting athletes. When a private/parochial benefits from having no enrollment boundaries whatsoever, no one bats an eye. It's a given.
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But that's the difference. One school has NO enrollment boundaries and others do. So if the private/parochial school doesn't have boundaries how is that wrong? If a public school does have boundaries, then it is wrong. It's not apples to apples. When Berkeley was the overall best public school in Norcal they didn't have boundaries and pulled kids from all over. Principal didn't want them being viewed as being a dirty program and cut it. look what happened....

All I'm saying is that don't say people don't recruit when they clearly do. Everyone does it but to say they don't is just stupid...especially top programs. Mitty, SHC, CLet, MM, Sac anyone...They have to in some form or another.
 
Norcal_Fan said:
When Berkeley was the overall best public school in Norcal they didn't have boundaries and pulled kids from all over. Principal didn't want them being viewed as being a dirty program and cut it. look what happened....
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And lets not forget the irony of there being no 1998 D1 (the open of old) state champion because the team that beat Berkeley.... used kids illegally pulled from out their boundaries...
 
straightline50 said:
Back on point, the north runs through San Jose, it is Mitty's to lose. Best coach, best program, best school, best players. Stay healthy and no untimely foul outs and life is good for the Monarchs.
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Best coach,best program, best school? That's quite a statement. I'm a SMS supporter and happen to think SMS is the best in all those areas. Most state championships. Including an Open state championship. The only school in the state that has been in the Open every year since it started. Been nationally ranked I believe every year for the last 15 years. Yes, this could be a down year, but I wouldn't count them out by January.
 
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Passionatedad said:
Best coach,best program, best school? That's quite a statement. I'm a SMS supporter and happen to think SMS is the best in all those areas. Most state championships. Including an Open state championship. The only school in the state that has been in the Open every year since it started. Been nationally ranked I believe every year for the last 15 years. Yes, this could be a down year, but I wouldn't count them out by January.
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Since I moved back to the Bay Area(from out of state)10 yrs ago I have to concur with PDAD that the best program has been SMS. Mitty has had some talented players (for sure) but SMS sheer volume of high level talent has been insane.

And I don't remember SMS playing 18 players in a section game loss thus avoiding the OPEN...SMS takes on all and doesn't shy away from the big girl games. That schedule they played a few yrs back (when PW beat them and shocked the country) may have been the toughest schedule any girls HS team has ever played. And THAT SMS team was the greatest high school team Ive ever seen.


SMS better program IMO
 
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northbaybbguru said:
Since I moved back to the Bay Area(from out of state)10 yrs ago I have to concur with PDAD that the best program has been SMS. Mitty has had some talented players (for sure) but SMS sheer volume of high level talent has been insane.

And I don't remember SMS playing 18 players in a section game loss thus avoiding the OPEN...SMS takes on all and doesn't shy away from the big girl games. That schedule they played a few yrs back (when PW beat them and shocked the country) may have been the toughest schedule any girls HS team has ever played. And THAT SMS team was the greatest high school team Ive ever seen.


SMS better program IMO
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My thoughts exactly ! That team was loaded and had most of the Norcal schools and players having nightmares just thinking about playing them. Pinewood proved what preparation, being under estimated, well coached, and being red hot from behind the arch can do with regards to upsetting the number 1 team in the nation goes.
 
Passionatedad said:
Best coach,best program, best school? That's quite a statement. I'm a SMS supporter and happen to think SMS is the best in all those areas. Most state championships. Including an Open state championship. The only school in the state that has been in the Open every year since it started. Been nationally ranked I believe every year for the last 15 years. Yes, this could be a down year, but I wouldn't count them out by January.
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Best program? Without question. What they've been able to do since Tom has taken over is hands down second to none. He gets his teams to play extremely hard and they seem to have buy in. I would however disagree that they have the "best coach" because if we're talking coaching, one area that he's never done well in is playing man to man defense. His teams solely rely on their athleticism, are always out of defensive position, and virtually no help defense....that and he zone presses and drops to a zone 90% of the time.

I've said this before and I'll say this again, if you can't teach man to man, you don't belong in the conversation of being a best coach, because you're not teaching all facets of the game...especially when you have the horses to do so...to me it just seems lazy or not knowing what you're doing (which is the case in a lot of instances). And lets face it...teaching man to man is NOT easy by any stretch of the imagination AND you have to do it daily to be any good at it.

Best School? is that academics, clubs, etc? not sure what that means.
 
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northbaybbguru said:
Since I moved back to the Bay Area(from out of state)10 yrs ago I have to concur with PDAD that the best program has been SMS. Mitty has had some talented players (for sure) but SMS sheer volume of high level talent has been insane.

And I don't remember SMS playing 18 players in a section game loss thus avoiding the OPEN...SMS takes on all and doesn't shy away from the big girl games. That schedule they played a few yrs back (when PW beat them and shocked the country) may have been the toughest schedule any girls HS team has ever played. And THAT SMS team was the greatest high school team Ive ever seen.


SMS better program IMO
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Every program has its runs. SMS, Mitty, BOD and before them SHC before that. No one program has it on lock. Seems like when we get high on a program they lose in the end lol.
 
Paytc said:
My thoughts exactly ! That team was loaded and had most of the Norcal schools and players having nightmares just thinking about playing them. Pinewood proved what preparation, being under estimated, well coached, and being red hot from behind the arch can do with regards to upsetting the number 1 team in the nation goes.
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Not all schools had nightmares. SHC went into Stockton and almost pulled off the upset. Cayton hit a 30ft shot at the buzzer to put them up 4 to win that game. If you can somewhat figure out coaches systems you have a shot. At the end of the day all of those programs have good coaches it just comes down to how kids execute that particular game
 
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CityBoy415 said:
Not all schools had nightmares. SHC went into Stockton and almost pulled off the upset. Cayton hit a 30ft shot at the buzzer to put them up 4 to win that game. If you can somewhat figure out coaches systems you have a shot. At the end of the day all of those programs have good coaches it just comes down to how kids execute that particular game
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They were well coached and prepared.

The problem is kids tend to buy into hype and fear if left un checked. And there were (are) too many coaches (those of the few who actually had/have enough talent to upset the so call power house) who give off less optimism than the confidence and trust they need to display to prepare their team to be confident enough to pull of the upset. Most players/ teams adopt the personality of their coach. If you do a study and look to find the common denominator in teams that pull off upsets you will find either they had an extremely confident and competent coach to prepare the game plan and mind sets of the players. Or one or two Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore's aka super talented and confident players on the team who weren't gonna let the team lose.
 
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There are a lot of paths to success, but at the level we're talking about, you can't get very far without elite talent.

If you have talent, you really need only a couple of things: A system you believe in and can teach (however limited others might perceive it to be); and the ability to get the girls to play hard.

To just touch on the system aspect: Vince Lombardi supposedly was of the school that he had four plays and just wanted to run them all perfectly; other successful coaches run numerous sets and plays, relying more on versatility than precision. For me as a coach, I preferred to do just a few things and do them as well as possible, but other coaches do it differently and are as successful or more successful.

Of course, measuring a program by wins and losses and state titles isn't necessarily the best method. Coaches like Larry Minnich at Bay and Erin Llewellyn at Emery do a great job of maximizing their talent year in and year out, but since that talent can't compare to the teams in this discussion, they don't get the credit they deserve.
 
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CityBoy415 said:
Read that again. It says to put them up 4. Meaning they were up 1 at the time. #HookedOnPhonicsWorksForYou
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That’s not how it was phrased, but we get that the buzzer shot didn’t actually “win that game”. It was more of the difference between a 1 point nail biter, as opposed to a 4 point loss, which is still a good hard fought game by SHC against that team.

#HookedOnPhonicsWorksForYou
 
observer22 said:
It’s been done. There used to be a Catholic Athletic League (CAL), of which most or all of those teams were members, but it disbanded back in the 80’s at the behest of the NCS for some reason. Just as the De La Salle juggernaut was in its infancy.

In fact, most of the current WCAL members (boys only at that time I assume) were part of the old CAL until they actually spun off what is now the WCAL from the CAL in the late 60’s. I believe Marin Catholic was also a member. Poster Colhenrylives is a walking encyclopedia of those days and that league and can provide much more insight if he sees this.
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Here is an article that discusses the old CAL and formation of the WCAL from the WCAL website:

http://www.wcalsports.org/docs/The Complete History of the WCAL.pdf
 
LBJ6 said:
@northbaybbguru I do not see Anya Choice on CN roster posted on Max Preps. She still playing there right? That's one of my favorite players in Nor Cal.
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The roster on MaxPreps is an old roster from 6 yrs ago. I'm not sure why its on there for the current season.
Also the schedule isn't correct. Some of the dates on the games are incorrect and obviously (with only 17 games listed) games are missing (CN Tournament, ESP tourney, SMS&BOD MLK games/2days).
I sent in a full season schedule to MaxPreps but they didn't accept it as I'm not a coach/administrator.
 
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LBJ6 said:
Good list. While I don't think San leandro is top 20 they were pretty young last year and have some decent bigs. Maybe you are on to something but i don't think they deserve a top 20 spot yet. Otherwise we pretty much have all of the same squads
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San Leandro 9-2 right now. Schedule is mild but they way it's shaping up they will be a top 20 team and most likely going d1
 
CityBoy415 said:
San Leandro 9-2 right now. Schedule is mild but they way it's shaping up they will be a top 20 team and most likely going d1
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Yep. They will lose 1 more game at most before NCS where they will probably be an 8 or 9 seed. They could win a game in NCS. I saw them play once this year. Enjoyed watching #30 play. Unfortunately their league is really really bad.
 
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LBJ6 said:
Yep. They will lose 1 more game at most before NCS where they will probably be an 8 or 9 seed. They could win a game in NCS. I saw them play once this year. Enjoyed watching #30 play. Unfortunately their league is really really bad.
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I just looked at their schedule and there's 6 chances for close games. Oakland, Mt. Eden Alameda, Oakland Tech, and Encinal twice.
 
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