A football conundrum

[colhenrylives]

The ever-shifting, ever-changing pandemic-related rules governing athletics in the great state of California continue to vex everyone involved. Both San Jose State and Stanford have been forced to move their pre-season drills out of inconsistently and arbitrarily restrictive Santa Clara County, to Humboldt State in the far north and, yes, Woodside High School in San Mateo County respectively. But the pro 49ers are permitted to both practice and play actual games within Santa Clara County. Go figure. It's enough to make a coach, player, fan, whatever, go just a bit nuts at this delicate juncture. As for high schools, well, it's more of the same.

 

[WWHS44]

but you can shop at Costco, Lowes, Walmart, Home depot etc.....with little to no restrictions...

 

[colhenrylives]

...maybe Santa Clara County teams could practice in the parking lots of those stores...

 

[colhenrylives]

The key to playing and participating in SCC has to be testing.

 

[Crusaders70]

I drove by a soccer field in San Jose and there were three teams out there practicing, no masks and the kids weren't six feet apart. So I don't know what to make of it half the time.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

The DNA of this country is to not trust government and to give it too much power. There are clearly abuses of this power at the state, county and local levels. There need to be more lawsuits and people need to demand that they can exercise their liberties. The CDC has stated schools should be open - the risk is low. In many areas, youth suicide rates have climbed YoY and mental health officials have underlined concerns about the lockdowns/semi-lockdowns on youth mental health. It's a matter of the citizens have to demand their rights after the goal posts have moved. Even Euro countries have now understood they can't go back and need to open up. There is much greater understanding on treating COVID-19 and how to limit its spread. No reason - restaurants in Alameda county can't allow inside dining when they can in Contra Costa county. Makes zero sense at all. Citizens of this state need to start demanding that their liberties be reinstated. It seems too easy to take them away and not so easy to get them back. No reason based on other state experience that HS learning and sports not put back on track.

 

[ArmchairGOAT]

The DNA of this country is to not trust government and to give it too much power. There are clearly abuses of this power at the state, county and local levels. There need to be more lawsuits and people need to demand that they can exercise their liberties. The CDC has stated schools should be open - the risk is low. In many areas, youth suicide rates have climbed YoY and mental health officials have underlined concerns about the lockdowns/semi-lockdowns on youth mental health. It's a matter of the citizens have to demand their rights after the goal posts have moved. Even Euro countries have now understood they can't go back and need to open up. There is much greater understanding on treating COVID-19 and how to limit its spread. No reason - restaurants in Alameda county can't allow inside dining when they can in Contra Costa county. Makes zero sense at all. Citizens of this state need to start demanding that their liberties be reinstated. It seems too easy to take them away and not so easy to get them back. No reason based on other state experience that HS learning and sports not put back on track.

You failed to mention abuses of power at the Federal level. Big difference are all of the wealthiest Countries collectively locked down back in February. The White House has more cases than New Zealand. Unfortunately, we will never come out of this until we get an Administration that takes responsibility and follows science and data

 

[RidgeRider]

You failed to mention abuses of power at the Federal level. Big difference are all of the wealthiest Countries collectively locked down back in February. The White House has more cases than New Zealand. Unfortunately, we will never come out of this until we get an Administration that takes responsibility and follows science and data

Your Governor is fully and completely responsible for whats is happening in this state. Caring types like you continue to skirt responsibility for caring type decisions by blaming orange man bad for state decisions. Doesn't work that way. The Little tyrant that runs this state with his super majority of caring types is 100% responsible for all that is going on in the state that everyone is leaving. Orange man bad ain't running this state and Orange man bad ain't forcing people to exit to well run non-caring states. The delusion game played by the caring types is ruining our kids lives.....but they don't care cause orange man bad is too much for their ego’s to bear.

 

[Marcskit]

Your Governor is fully and completely responsible for whats is happening in this state. Caring types like you continue to skirt responsibility for caring type decisions by blaming orange man bad for state decisions. Doesn't work that way. The Little tyrant that runs this state with his super majority of caring types is 100% responsible for all that is going on in the state that everyone is leaving. Orange man bad ain't running this state and Orange man bad ain't forcing people to exit to well run non-caring states. The delusion game played by the caring types is ruining our kids lives.....but they don't care cause orange man bad is too much for their ego’s to bear.

You must have hated the hell out of Mr. Roger's.
Won't you be my neighbor?

Here's wishing you great football

 

[ArmchairGOAT]

You must have hated the hell out of Mr. Roger's.
Won't you be my neighbor?

Here's wishing you great football

Yes. So angry. CA has the lowest death rate than all the other largest populated states b/c it refused to deny the truth and science. We will be in far better shape to re-open for good.

 

[RidgeRider]

Yes. So angry. CA has the lowest death rate than all the other largest populated states b/c it refused to deny the truth and science. We will be in far better shape to re-open for good.

Fake news. We are middle of the road in terms of death rates and infection rates, but we lead in homelessness, suicide rates are up, foreclosures are up, businesses destroyed are up, unemployment is up, child abuse is up, people leaving the state us up, companies leaving the state is up, depression is up, rioting is up, looting is up, crime is up.......should I go on? Keep deluding yourself everything is ok and we are doing great. CA gets a C+ at best based on actual facts.

And we are still not playing football because of something that doesn't affect kids at all.

 

[Streak One]

The issue with California now is the schedule is set. And with a state this big, you can't just turn on a dime and change it. The CIF made this decision in the summer (I'm of the opinion it was a good decision, but one not without issues) and now have to wait.

Given current cirucumstances, I would be shocked if we aren't playing in January

 

[ankleassassin]

so angry.

 

[Kickingtee18]

The issue with California now is the schedule is set. And with a state this big, you can't just turn on a dime and change it. The CIF made this decision in the summer (I'm of the opinion it was a good decision, but one not without issues) and now have to wait.

Given current cirucumstances, I would be shocked if we aren't playing in January

Appreciate your opinion, but wait on...? Used to be a time when kids showed up in August, went 2 practices a day for two weeks and then game on. The pre-season could start tomorrow, just flip the switch. The powers that be won't allow it as it flies in the face of conformity...and governing a conforming mass of people is about power.

 

[1315]

There’s no convincing sycophants like @11. There is no roadmap for a pandemic. (Heck, there wasn’t even an Interstate system in 1919-20.) The demand from the top that states proceed on their own has left this once great country with the most deaths...on Earth. Even “beautiful” countries of 1B like India with their “excellent” health care system? Five times the population, 50% less dead.

Even the CDC has been forced to waffle on aerosol transmissibility in the last 30 days, finally succumbing to overwhelming fact based science. I think streak gets it regarding CA: time to study=fewer exposures=less death.

Look at the NFL. Tons of $$ to implement AND perform mitigation yet games are being rescheduled. It simply cannot disappear miraculously. Sure, someone below will say “look at the states playing HSFB!” And we shall in January/February when the data shows what we already know: mitigation works, just like a mask in the big house.

I digress.

She’s 13, and the Source of a Family’s Covid-19 Outbreak (Published 2020)

The C.D.C. and four state health departments described how one girl spread the coronavirus to 11 relatives during a gathering.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Streak One]

Appreciate your opinion, but wait on...? Used to be a time when kids showed up in August, went 2 practices a day for two weeks and then game on. The pre-season could start tomorrow, just flip the switch. The powers that be won't allow it as it flies in the face of conformity...and governing a conforming mass of people is about power.

That’s a fair point for certain areas but I don’t think it is realistic to get the whole state going on that timeline. Which is what I think delaying the season was partially about.

 

[rwccaptain42]

There’s no convincing sycophants like @11. There is no roadmap for a pandemic. (Heck, there wasn’t even an Interstate system in 1919-20.) The demand from the top that states proceed on their own has left this once great country with the most deaths...on Earth. Even “beautiful” countries of 1B like India with their “excellent” health care system? Five times the population, 50% less dead.

Even the CDC has been forced to waffle on aerosol transmissibility in the last 30 days, finally succumbing to overwhelming fact based science. I think streak gets it regarding CA: time to study=fewer exposures=less death.

Look at the NFL. Tons of $$ to implement AND perform mitigation yet games are being rescheduled. It simply cannot disappear miraculously. Sure, someone below will say “look at the states playing HSFB!” And we shall in January/February when the data shows what we already know: mitigation works, just like a mask in the big house.

I digress.

She’s 13, and the Source of a Family’s Covid-19 Outbreak (Published 2020)

The C.D.C. and four state health departments described how one girl spread the coronavirus to 11 relatives during a gathering.

www.nytimes.com

only 2 of them got sick and are fine now, and im only assuming they had some legit health issues prior. Still no reason to shut down the state. people die every gd day

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

You failed to mention abuses of power at the Federal level. Big difference are all of the wealthiest Countries collectively locked down back in February. The White House has more cases than New Zealand. Unfortunately, we will never come out of this until we get an Administration that takes responsibility and follows science and data

WHO even states lockdown not helping and to open up. It is destroying the economy and suicide rates are up among youth since lockdown. Why are states like Florida that are relatively open and took precautions early on to protect the elderly (they have a good process in place and high percentage of elderly in that state) doing relatively well? Schools are open in most cases and they are playing sports. COVID is up some but in the demographic it is is very low risk. Please detail the abuses at Fed level? Since we live in a republic, state and local sovereignty have lots of power. Even fed mask mandate is almost certainly unconstitutional. It always seems hindsight is better than the view at the time. Given this country is free, short of martial law like in China, such an infectious virus will spread. The goal posts have been moved and they need to stick with the original and open up. No reason Alameda County can't have indoor dinning when Contra Costa County has it. It is nonsense and the longer these kids are kept out of school, the more damage to their futures and higher suicide rates. There is a big cost to not opening up. Incidences will go up as things open up, and it needs to be managed. Even WHO policy is in agreement.

 

[ArmchairGOAT]

Fed level abuses? Where do we start? Removed onsite infectious disease specialists out of China, Threw out the Pandemic playbook from the previous Administration. Knew the severity of the Virus in January, yet said it would simply disappear and that Americans would panic if they were told the truth. Contradicts our infectious disease specialists because it does not fit this Administration's narrative. Would rather jam a SCOTUS through than provide stimulus aid to Americans suffering. How hard would it have been if this Administration in January addressed the American people telling them that we have an airborne infectious and deadly Virus with no current treatment or vaccine. For the sake of ALL of our citizens and healthcare infrastructure to support anyone that has become stricken, we need to Shelter in Place, shut down all non-essential business for 60 days and everyone needs to wear a mask and social distance if they must go out. If upon the scientific data shows that cases/deaths are controlled at the end of this time we will implement a phased approach to re-open. We have collectively saved lives for VISIBLE threats like forest fires, hurricanes and floods. This Virus is an invisible AND contagious threat, together we can defeat this threat.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

You failed to mention abuses of power at the Federal level. Big difference are all of the wealthiest Countries collectively locked down back in February. The White House has more cases than New Zealand. Unfortunately, we will never come out of this until we get an Administration that takes responsibility and follows science and data

By the way, my European colleagues are all experiencing an increase and they even are continuing to open up because the damage of not doing so is creating pressure on their economic and political systems. Also, you point of US being late on lockdown misrespresents the actual facts. For example, Germany started enacting coronavirus lockdown measures beginning March 22. Italy who was being hard hit by the virus suspended flights from China on Jan 31, and was implementing local quarantines. Italy extended it to nationwide lockdown on March 9. The U.K lockdown was soft starting March 16 and in March 23 Fed Govt issued nationwide stay at home order. Canada started to shutdown around March 17 and Quebec on March 23 starts shutting down non-essential businesses. US response: January 20 — CDC Says 3 US Airports Will Begin Screening for Coronavirus; January 21 — CDC Confirms First US Coronavirus Case and Chinese Scientist Confirms COVID-19 Human Transmission ; January 31 — WHO Issues Global Health Emergency; February 2 — US Global Air Travel Is Restricted (other countries beginning to impose similar air-travel restrictions at this point include Australia, Germany, Italy, and New Zealand); February 3 — US Declares Public Health Emergency ; President Trump declares National emergency - March 13th States beginning stay-at-home orders ranging from March 13 (Puerto Rico not a state), March 19 (California), New York (March 22) through April 7 (Many states issued orders shortly after CA with a few later and a few haven't been shut down at all); March 25 — Reports Find Extended Shutdowns Can Delay Second Wave; Oct 11th - "Lockdowns, one WHO official said in a recent interview, have done incalculable damage on their own and should really be avoided." after instilling fear as recent as July.

The US response actually was rather timely if you really compare and states that have opened up while protecting the at risk have faired better than others relatively with less disruption to their economies. More will come out of this pandemic in analysis, but given treatments are becoming better from knowledge and available therapeutics and within next few months at risk will start to receive vaccines, I am positive things will start to turn around. There may be a few months of risk of increases but that comes from opening up. As long as hospitals are not overrun the country should continue to open up like other countries are. There is more to high mortality in US than just shutting down since this country was not anywhere different than other countries. Much of the outrage is fueled by the media. We now test more than any country on earth and are very far along on vaccines and producing them ahead of time so they get out to those at risk when approved. Some very promising therapeutics are close to completing trials and some will be out before for the at risk. We are not out of the woods yet, but evidence shows we need to open up and at some point in not so distant future we will turn the corner. We already have in many ways but this state is on the conservative side.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

Fed level abuses? Where do we start? Removed onsite infectious disease specialists out of China, Threw out the Pandemic playbook from the previous Administration. Knew the severity of the Virus in January, yet said it would simply disappear and that Americans would panic if they were told the truth. Contradicts our infectious disease specialists because it does not fit this Administration's narrative. Would rather jam a SCOTUS through than provide stimulus aid to Americans suffering. How hard would it have been if this Administration in January addressed the American people telling them that we have an airborne infectious and deadly Virus with no current treatment or vaccine. For the sake of ALL of our citizens and healthcare infrastructure to support anyone that has become stricken, we need to Shelter in Place, shut down all non-essential business for 60 days and everyone needs to wear a mask and social distance if they must go out. If upon the scientific data shows that cases/deaths are controlled at the end of this time we will implement a phased approach to re-open. We have collectively saved lives for VISIBLE threats like forest fires, hurricanes and floods. This Virus is an invisible AND contagious threat, together we can defeat this threat.

Great. I see you are one of those looney's that doesn't look at the facts to fit your own narrative.

More misrepresentation. China was withholding information and you also neglect to state what happened to the scientists that came out against the CCP narrative. They have died or are missing. We sent scientists there and they wouldn't give them access. The previous administration dodged the H1N1 flu and lucked out as far as deaths according to person in administration in charge. The previous administration didn't replenish the reserve for ventilators and other needed items. It took this administration working with private industry to right the gap.

As far as SCOTUS - the GOP is following the constitution (many times one has been appointed in lame duck years and even one confirmed a couple weeks before an election. The person you are voting for claims it is unconstitutional which is a complete lie. VP candidate makes a fictional story about Honest Abe which every historian would laugh at considering the Senate was not in session. Let's see...has Nancy Pelosi called Congress together to get a bill done that will get through? You do realize the POTUS mentioned the virus in his SOTU address - the same one Ms Pelosi ripped up the transcript at to show her complete disrespect of the POTUS and her institution. And you wonder why the government is dysfunctional. Keep drinking the whiskey. Sorry. This is sports board.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

There’s no convincing sycophants like @11. There is no roadmap for a pandemic. (Heck, there wasn’t even an Interstate system in 1919-20.) The demand from the top that states proceed on their own has left this once great country with the most deaths...on Earth. Even “beautiful” countries of 1B like India with their “excellent” health care system? Five times the population, 50% less dead.

Even the CDC has been forced to waffle on aerosol transmissibility in the last 30 days, finally succumbing to overwhelming fact based science. I think streak gets it regarding CA: time to study=fewer exposures=less death.

Look at the NFL. Tons of $$ to implement AND perform mitigation yet games are being rescheduled. It simply cannot disappear miraculously. Sure, someone below will say “look at the states playing HSFB!” And we shall in January/February when the data shows what we already know: mitigation works, just like a mask in the big house.

I digress.

She’s 13, and the Source of a Family’s Covid-19 Outbreak (Published 2020)

The C.D.C. and four state health departments described how one girl spread the coronavirus to 11 relatives during a gathering.

www.nytimes.com

If you know anything about India and China - you need to rethink your point about their reported metrics. Ours are even questionable in some ways. I've tracked China and India for over 20 years and for one every analyst in the world takes what is reported by China with a grain of salt. You can't believe everything a communist totalitarian country reports.

 

[Streak One]

I'm letting this thread go a little bit becuase it is being contained to this thread and not on the whole board. However, certain posts have move from COVID and is just directly political and that still isn't allowed.

Thanks

 

[ankleassassin]

WHO even states lockdown not helping and to open up. It is destroying the economy and suicide rates are up among youth since lockdown. Why are states like Florida that are relatively open and took precautions early on to protect the elderly (they have a good process in place and high percentage of elderly in that state) doing relatively well? Schools are open in most cases and they are playing sports. COVID is up some but in the demographic it is is very low risk. Please detail the abuses at Fed level? Since we live in a republic, state and local sovereignty have lots of power. Even fed mask mandate is almost certainly unconstitutional. It always seems hindsight is better than the view at the time. Given this country is free, short of martial law like in China, such an infectious virus will spread. The goal posts have been moved and they need to stick with the original and open up. No reason Alameda County can't have indoor dinning when Contra Costa County has it. It is nonsense and the longer these kids are kept out of school, the more damage to their futures and higher suicide rates. There is a big cost to not opening up. Incidences will go up as things open up, and it needs to be managed. Even WHO policy is in agreement.

if someone killed themselves over lockdown then they were weak and selfish to begin with.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

if someone killed themselves over lockdown then they were weak and selfish to begin with.

You are so ignorant. The ones committing suicide at an increasing rate are teens. Maybe inexperienced on how to deal with depression but they are not weak and selfish.

Here's more proof of your idiocracy. https://nypost.com/2020/10/11/who-warns-against-covid-19-lockdowns-due-to-economic-damage/

 

[Bkelly5]

What was the thinking making football the first sport up even though it takes tier 4 to make it a go? It makes no sense to me, especially when I see many other sports live right now in non-school settings.

 

[Streak One]

if someone killed themselves over lockdown then they were weak and selfish to begin with.

This is a really bad take.

 

[ankleassassin]

This is a really bad take.

so is it is all a joke and lets play football, or its just a flu.
taking ones life deprives others and hurts others. by definition....(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
it may be bad but it aint far off.

 

[ankleassassin]

You are so ignorant. The ones committing suicide at an increasing rate are teens. Maybe inexperienced on how to deal with depression but they are not weak and selfish.

Here's more proof of your idiocracy. https://nypost.com/2020/10/11/who-warns-against-covid-19-lockdowns-due-to-economic-damage/

so why are they committing suicide? why are they depressed? how do you know they are depressed from corona?

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

so why are they committing suicide? why are they depressed? how do you know they are depressed from corona?

Come on Man! It's called Psychology Today and many others stating it, and reading newspapers of increases in many areas even YoY over what it has been increasing before. Also personally know someone who moved out of state to TX because their child has been so distraught over the shutdown. You need to read the psychology journals. You may learn something that will help you to have some humanity in you.

 

[RidgeRider]

You are so ignorant. The ones committing suicide at an increasing rate are teens. Maybe inexperienced on how to deal with depression but they are not weak and selfish.

Here's more proof of your idiocracy. https://nypost.com/2020/10/11/who-warns-against-covid-19-lockdowns-due-to-economic-damage/

that's a man drinking the caring type Kool-Aid

 

[ankleassassin]

Come on Man! It's called Psychology Today and many others stating it, and reading newspapers of increases in many areas even YoY over what it has been increasing before. Also personally know someone who moved out of state to TX because their child has been so distraught over the shutdown. You need to read the psychology journals. You may learn something that will help you to have some humanity in you.

alright so what do you suggest then? why does a child have so much care about a shut down? i mean people are running all over contra costa and alameda counties. minus football what exactly is a teen missing that would cause such heartache? and if one is that distraught to move to another state do you not think there were already some mental health issues going on? FYI my masters in Psych zoom class starts at 4:30. Ironic.

 

[Streak One]

so is it is all a joke and lets play football, or its just a flu.
taking ones life deprives others and hurts others. by definition....(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
it may be bad but it aint far off.

My response wasn’t about to play sports or not. It was in reference to saying a person who commits suicide is weak and selfish. I know the toll it takes on those left behind but it doesn’t make that person weak or selfish for doing it. It’s this sort of thinking we need to get rid of.

 

[ankleassassin]

My response wasn’t about to play sports or not. It was in reference to saying a person who commits suicide is weak and selfish. I know the toll it takes on those left behind but it doesn’t make that person weak or selfish for doing it. It’s this sort of thinking we need to get rid of.

fair enough

 

[ankleassassin]

My response wasn’t about to play sports or not. It was in reference to saying a person who commits suicide is weak and selfish. I know the toll it takes on those left behind but it doesn’t make that person weak or selfish for doing it. It’s this sort of thinking we need to get rid of.

i guess i did not get where kids committing suicide came from and i aligned it with the football topic it was posted in. so i thought she was saying that they are killing themselves because they could not play football.

 

[RedZone90]

i guess i did not get where kids committing suicide came from and i aligned it with the football topic it was posted in. so i thought she was saying that they are killing themselves because they could not play football.

Please educate yourself on this topic.

Health experts concerned about suicide among teens during COVID-19

NORFOLK, Va. (WAVY) — September is National Suicide Prevention Month, and as we head into a new and unusual school year, health experts are concerned about suicide rates among children. Steph…

www.wavy.com

The pandemic is taking a toll on Americans' mental health. A new CDC study shows who we need to worry about most.

More than 40% of respondents in a CDC survey reported an adverse mental health condition and 11% reported having seriously considered suicide.

www.usatoday.com

The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on suicide rates

Summary. Multiple lines of evidence indicate that the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has profound psychological and social effects. The psych

academic.oup.com

 

[1315]

If you know anything about India and China - you need to rethink your point about their reported metrics. Ours are even questionable in some ways. I've tracked China and India for over 20 years and for one every analyst in the world takes what is reported by China with a grain of salt. You can't believe everything a communist totalitarian country reports.

Where did I state China’s stats? And if you’re disputing India’s, prove it. Maybe a hoax?

There’s little doubt society without HSFB will survive. It shall return, along with ACCURATE, inexpensive fast-antigen tests. The main reason only the deep pockets (NFL/MLB/NBA) can remotely (no pun intended) have a “season.” Until then, keep calm and wear a mask.

 

[ankleassassin]

Please educate yourself on this topic.

View embedded media

Health experts concerned about suicide among teens during COVID-19

NORFOLK, Va. (WAVY) — September is National Suicide Prevention Month, and as we head into a new and unusual school year, health experts are concerned about suicide rates among children. Steph…

www.wavy.com

The pandemic is taking a toll on Americans' mental health. A new CDC study shows who we need to worry about most.

More than 40% of respondents in a CDC survey reported an adverse mental health condition and 11% reported having seriously considered suicide.

www.usatoday.com

The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on suicide rates

Summary. Multiple lines of evidence indicate that the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has profound psychological and social effects. The psych

academic.oup.com

no thank you. i dont want to read about depression. it might make me depressed

 

[EN_FB_Alum]

How hard would it have been if this Administration in January addressed the American people telling them that we have an airborne infectious and deadly Virus with no current treatment or vaccine.

I would say pretty hard, since the CDC just announced this week that it may be spread airborne. Time travel hasnt been invented yet has it?

 

[MTsince2004]

I would say pretty hard, since the CDC just announced this week that it may be spread airborne. Time travel hasnt been invented yet has it?

I'm confused by this post. Here is Trump on February 7th talking to Bob Woodward saying that Coronavirus is airborne:


In a conversation with Woodward on Feb. 7, Trump said that he had confidence that China’s president, Xi Jinping, had the disease under control, but added ominously:

It goes through air, Bob. That’s always tougher than the touch. You know, the touch, you don’t have to touch things. Right? But the air, you just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed. … And so, that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than your—you know, your, even your strenuous flus. You know, people don’t realize, we lose 25,000, 30,000 people a year here. Who would ever think that, right? Pretty amazing. And then I say, well, is that the same thing? This is more deadly. This is 5 per—you know, this is 5 percent versus 1 percent and less than 1 percent. You know? So, this is deadly stuff.