Coming soon. Big changes in CCS play-off format just approved by the CCS Football Committee. Seems like CCS staff is on board which gives this a good chance for final approval in April. Idea will be shown to CIF so that everyone agrees this new play-off format will fit within the "all section champions will participate" proposal that CIF is likely to approve. Mercury News will probably have the story tomorrow.
Big Changes in CCS Play-off Format
- Thread starter mathmanpie
- Start date
Saw the Mercury news article. http://blogs.mercurynews.com/hssports/2014/12/09/ccs-football-coaches-approve-major-changes-to-playoff-format-but-will-section-pass-them/
Anyone know how brackets would of looked this year if this format was used?
Anyone know how brackets would of looked this year if this format was used?
Take the 8 Open teams and something like
D1 Bells, Serra, Milpitas, Salinas Hollister, Oak Grove
D2 - VC, Los Gatos, Mitty, St Francis ....
D3 - Sacred Heart Prep, Palma, Aptos (if have points), St Ignatiios
D1 Bells, Serra, Milpitas, Salinas Hollister, Oak Grove
D2 - VC, Los Gatos, Mitty, St Francis ....
D3 - Sacred Heart Prep, Palma, Aptos (if have points), St Ignatiios
The Mercury News blog describes option one well although I understand NLB said she thought both options (there are two options) were something the CCS Board could support.
Option One:
3 bowl qualifying divisions comprised only of schools from A leagues, based on enrollment. (Although there is an opt up that would allow a B/C league champion to opt into a bowl qualifying division and bump an A league team down to one of the two non-bowl qualifying divisions.) This season 25 teams from A leagues participated in the play-offs. Under this proposal 24 A league teams would make the play-offs each year.
Each of the 5 A leagues receives 4 automatic berths and the remaining 4 A league teams make it in on power points. (The A+ league designation is eliminated which reduces the liklihood that the WCAL will "automatically" get two of these 4 at-large spots.)
Once selected the 3 bowl qualifying divisions are divided up to Open 1, Open 2 and Open 3 based on enrollment and seeded by power points.
And as the Mercury News said, CCS hopes that by calling these divisions each Open 1, Open 2 and Open 3, that the new CIF proposal to "allow each section winner into a regional play-off game" will let CCS not only have the winner of each of these divisions go into the regional play-offs but also let CCS choose two of the three (non winning team) finalist to also go to the regional play-offs.
However what is not clear is how CIF will view this whole thing. Today CCS has 5 sectional winners. Will this new play-off format be viewed by CIF as ways to fill 5 sectional spots or will they say CCS now has only 3 sectional spots?
While there will be 3 bowl qualifying divisions there will also be 2 non bowl qualifying divisions made up of schools in B or C leagues. As noted above there is a way that B or C league winers could opt up to a bowl qualifying division and in the process bump the A league team with the fewest power points down to a non qualifying bowl division.
Each B/C league will receive one automatic berth in these play-offs with the remaining 8 at-large teams decided by power points. That is very likely to give an advantage to B leagues in getting teams in the play-offs because of the way power points are awarded. Perhaps CCS should consider doing away with the C league designation completely and just have A or B leagues?
Once selected the 2 non bowl qualifying divisions would be divided up based on enrollment and seeded by power points.
And that's the way I understand Option One goes.
Option Two.
In this case, I believe there are two significant differences between Option Two and Option One.
In Option Two the highest level of the 3 bowl qualifying divisions would truely be an Open Division. It would work like the Open Division works today. Teams that were A league champions would be placed in this division regardless of their enrollment. The remaining teams in this Open Division would be filled out based on Power Points (and the WCAL would still be an A+ league.) Then the two other bowl qualifying divisions would be filled with the remaining A league teams and divided by enrollment - seeded by power points. These other two bowl qualifying divisions would not be called Open Divisions.
The other difference that I heard was that in Option Two there would NOT be an opt up provision. Not sure why. Hopefully I heard this wrong.
All in all a bold move proposed by the PAL league and adopted unanimously by the Football Committee. Be interesting to see where it goes from here.Also interesting to see how the CIF decides on the "all sectional winners will participate" proposal to be voted on in January. And how the "all sectional winners will participate" would feed into the state bowl game format.
Option One:
3 bowl qualifying divisions comprised only of schools from A leagues, based on enrollment. (Although there is an opt up that would allow a B/C league champion to opt into a bowl qualifying division and bump an A league team down to one of the two non-bowl qualifying divisions.) This season 25 teams from A leagues participated in the play-offs. Under this proposal 24 A league teams would make the play-offs each year.
Each of the 5 A leagues receives 4 automatic berths and the remaining 4 A league teams make it in on power points. (The A+ league designation is eliminated which reduces the liklihood that the WCAL will "automatically" get two of these 4 at-large spots.)
Once selected the 3 bowl qualifying divisions are divided up to Open 1, Open 2 and Open 3 based on enrollment and seeded by power points.
And as the Mercury News said, CCS hopes that by calling these divisions each Open 1, Open 2 and Open 3, that the new CIF proposal to "allow each section winner into a regional play-off game" will let CCS not only have the winner of each of these divisions go into the regional play-offs but also let CCS choose two of the three (non winning team) finalist to also go to the regional play-offs.
However what is not clear is how CIF will view this whole thing. Today CCS has 5 sectional winners. Will this new play-off format be viewed by CIF as ways to fill 5 sectional spots or will they say CCS now has only 3 sectional spots?
While there will be 3 bowl qualifying divisions there will also be 2 non bowl qualifying divisions made up of schools in B or C leagues. As noted above there is a way that B or C league winers could opt up to a bowl qualifying division and in the process bump the A league team with the fewest power points down to a non qualifying bowl division.
Each B/C league will receive one automatic berth in these play-offs with the remaining 8 at-large teams decided by power points. That is very likely to give an advantage to B leagues in getting teams in the play-offs because of the way power points are awarded. Perhaps CCS should consider doing away with the C league designation completely and just have A or B leagues?
Once selected the 2 non bowl qualifying divisions would be divided up based on enrollment and seeded by power points.
And that's the way I understand Option One goes.
Option Two.
In this case, I believe there are two significant differences between Option Two and Option One.
In Option Two the highest level of the 3 bowl qualifying divisions would truely be an Open Division. It would work like the Open Division works today. Teams that were A league champions would be placed in this division regardless of their enrollment. The remaining teams in this Open Division would be filled out based on Power Points (and the WCAL would still be an A+ league.) Then the two other bowl qualifying divisions would be filled with the remaining A league teams and divided by enrollment - seeded by power points. These other two bowl qualifying divisions would not be called Open Divisions.
The other difference that I heard was that in Option Two there would NOT be an opt up provision. Not sure why. Hopefully I heard this wrong.
All in all a bold move proposed by the PAL league and adopted unanimously by the Football Committee. Be interesting to see where it goes from here.Also interesting to see how the CIF decides on the "all sectional winners will participate" proposal to be voted on in January. And how the "all sectional winners will participate" would feed into the state bowl game format.
Hope these changes take place. I did a quick work up on teams that probably would have been selected for the three Open divisions. Assuming any team could be dropped out by the inclusion of an opt in team, Aptos would have been in and Terra Nova would have been kicked out. I also have Menlo and Menlo Atherton dropped out. But possibly Terra Nova and Menlo would have left in as auto qualifiers and Willow Glen, Santa Teresa and Menlo Atherton would have been kicked out. I also did adjustments for the WCAL being moved from and A+ league to an A league. Each WCAL competitor subtracts .5 point.
Here the numbers. PwPt are the original CCS points and the PWP-1 are the adjusted points. O-D is the open division number. The format looks okay before posting but often it scrambles a bit after posting so hopefully you will be able to make sense of it.
Playoffs
Team PwrPt PWP-1 Enrollment O-D bkt
Milpitas 32.83 31.83 3014 1 1
Bellarmine 30.5 27 3278 1 2
Salinas 24.75 24.75 2590 1 3
Alverez 23.5 23.5 2417 1 4
San Benito 23 23 2872 1 5
Piedmont Hills 22.33 21.83 2205 1 6
Wilcox 21.33 21.33 1921 1 7
Santa Teresa 19.5 19.5 2273 1 8
Los Gatos 28.5 28 1820 2 1
Pioneer 27.5 27.5 1564 2 2
Oak Grove 28 27 1920 2 3
Serra 28.5 25 1714 2 4
Mitty 27.5 24 1721 2 5
St. Francis 27.5 24 1753 2 6
Leland 22 22 1802 2 7
Willow Glen 21.9 21.9 1659 2 8
Sacred Heart Prep 33 33 603 3 1
Valley Christian 33.5 30 1422 3 2
Palma 29.75 29.25 812 3 3
Aptos 26.5 26.5 1368 3 4
Burlingame 26 26 1341 3 5
Monterey 25.5 25.5 1242 3 6
St. Ignatius 25.85 22.35 1467 3 7
Saratoga 20 19.5 1412 3 8
Possible way the playoffs would work out
Open DI
1/8 Milpitas vs Santa Teresa
2/7 Bellarmine vs Wilcox
3/6 Salinas vs Piedmont Hills
4/5 Alverez vs San Benito (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
Bellarmine would probably have been the champ and Milpitas as another bid choice.
Open DII
1/8 Los Gatos vs Willow Glen
2/7 Pioneer vs Leland (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
3/6 Oak Grove vs St. Francis
4/5 Serra vs Mitty (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
As the alignment of brackets sit here, Los Gatos would have been champ and St. Francis would have been another bid choice.
Open DIII
1/8 Sacred Heart Prep vs Saratoga
2/7 Valley Christian vs St. Ignatius (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
3/6 Palma vs Monterey (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
4/5 Aptos vs Burlingame
Sacred Heart Prep would have been champ and Valley Christian would have been another bid choice.
Here the numbers. PwPt are the original CCS points and the PWP-1 are the adjusted points. O-D is the open division number. The format looks okay before posting but often it scrambles a bit after posting so hopefully you will be able to make sense of it.
Playoffs
Team PwrPt PWP-1 Enrollment O-D bkt
Milpitas 32.83 31.83 3014 1 1
Bellarmine 30.5 27 3278 1 2
Salinas 24.75 24.75 2590 1 3
Alverez 23.5 23.5 2417 1 4
San Benito 23 23 2872 1 5
Piedmont Hills 22.33 21.83 2205 1 6
Wilcox 21.33 21.33 1921 1 7
Santa Teresa 19.5 19.5 2273 1 8
Los Gatos 28.5 28 1820 2 1
Pioneer 27.5 27.5 1564 2 2
Oak Grove 28 27 1920 2 3
Serra 28.5 25 1714 2 4
Mitty 27.5 24 1721 2 5
St. Francis 27.5 24 1753 2 6
Leland 22 22 1802 2 7
Willow Glen 21.9 21.9 1659 2 8
Sacred Heart Prep 33 33 603 3 1
Valley Christian 33.5 30 1422 3 2
Palma 29.75 29.25 812 3 3
Aptos 26.5 26.5 1368 3 4
Burlingame 26 26 1341 3 5
Monterey 25.5 25.5 1242 3 6
St. Ignatius 25.85 22.35 1467 3 7
Saratoga 20 19.5 1412 3 8
Possible way the playoffs would work out
Open DI
1/8 Milpitas vs Santa Teresa
2/7 Bellarmine vs Wilcox
3/6 Salinas vs Piedmont Hills
4/5 Alverez vs San Benito (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
Bellarmine would probably have been the champ and Milpitas as another bid choice.
Open DII
1/8 Los Gatos vs Willow Glen
2/7 Pioneer vs Leland (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
3/6 Oak Grove vs St. Francis
4/5 Serra vs Mitty (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
As the alignment of brackets sit here, Los Gatos would have been champ and St. Francis would have been another bid choice.
Open DIII
1/8 Sacred Heart Prep vs Saratoga
2/7 Valley Christian vs St. Ignatius (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
3/6 Palma vs Monterey (League mates might be avoided as in the past)
4/5 Aptos vs Burlingame
Sacred Heart Prep would have been champ and Valley Christian would have been another bid choice.
If we are going to move to a traditional regional/state playoff, the whole state needs to get in line and set a standard for brackets. It seems like the CCS is unwilling to give up their independence in this process.
I like the change as opposed to the old system, but the section seems to make everything difficult.
I like the change as opposed to the old system, but the section seems to make everything difficult.
Agreed, CCS needs to get with the program. CCS has had some type of augmented top division since 1994 and entered into a full Open division like it stantds now in 2004. They just can't seem to give it up completely.
Although the CCS Open division is unique in NorCal, A form of it is found in SoCal. The Southern Section has its Pac-5 division where they cram most of the top extened-metro teams into it with enrollment range from about 1000 to 5000. I will be watching closely to see what they do. And the San Diego Section has their top 8 schools according to previous years strength put into an Open bracket.
Not sure why they need to make it more complicated for no reason. Last year the Football Committee voted to eliminate the Open Division and the A+ designation and go to 5 enrollment based divisions. This passed by a 11-0-1 vote.
It was simple and what the Football leaders wanted.
It was the non-football people and the CCS who voted not to accept the football committee's recommendation and kept the Open and created the silly consolation games, which worked out so well!
Bottom line is that they did not accept the simple recommendation from last year, so I have no faith to think that they will change it this year.
It was simple and what the Football leaders wanted.
It was the non-football people and the CCS who voted not to accept the football committee's recommendation and kept the Open and created the silly consolation games, which worked out so well!
Bottom line is that they did not accept the simple recommendation from last year, so I have no faith to think that they will change it this year.
Streak One...The state proposal is kind of confusing. What CIF says in an October memo is this:
"For the past several years the (CIF) Football Advisory Committee and the Commissioners Committee have been discussing formats that would allow all Section Champions, who choose to participate, the opportunity to play in a Regional Football Bowl Championship."
A "Regional Football Bowl Championship."
What is NOT clear is how (or if) the teams that would play in this Regional Football Bowl Championship" would then move to the State Championship Bowl(s).
Here is a summary of the points made in CIF's October memo:
1.) This proposal will advance all Section Champions, if they choose to participate, to a CIF Regional Football Championship.
2.) CIF Sections with an "Open Division" will be allowed to replace one or more of their Section Champions from another division with a team that participated in that Section's Open Division. That Section Open Division team may only replace a Section Champion from the division in which they would have been slotted if they had not been selected for the Section's Open Division.
3.) All teams in the CIF Regional Football Championship Bowl Games will be slotted based on "competitive equity". (Which I think is going to be a whole new can of worms.) (And another perhaps more minor can of worms will be how CIF will fill out the bracket if a sectional champion decides not to participate.)
4.) There will be two Open Divisions in the CIF Regional Football Championships. The first will be open to all teams regardless of enrollment that have qualified through their respective section play-offs. The best team from the north and the best team from the south (assume as decided by the CIF commissioners based on "competitive equity") will be selected to participate and will receive byes directly to the CIF State Football Championships Bowl Open Division game. The second Open Division in the CIF Regional Football Championship Bowl Games will be open to all teams with an enrollment of 1,250 students or less that have qualified through their respective section play-offs (and again I assume they will be chosen by the CIF commissioners based on their view of "competitive equity".) These teams will participate in the CIF Regional Football Bowl Games wih the winner advancing to the CIF State Football Championship Bowl Game (1,250 or less).
And finally the memo provides some thoughts on how to put some of the Central Section divisions into the north and some of that Section's divisions into the south.
They then have a page that shows Competitive Equity Based "Mock Selection" (Using Teams from 2013)
The large Open Division has De La Salle representing the north ad Bosco the south. The Open - 1,250 has Sacred Heart Prep playing Central Catholic in the north and Crenshaw playing Christian in the south. (Which perhaps highlights the issue of "competitive equity" In this mock they have Sacred Heart in the smaller Open and El Cerrito in 4AA. But as I recall El Cerrito was heavily favored to beat Sacred Heart so more likely El Cerrito would have been in the small Open with Sacred Heart in 4AA.)
It also has a mock selection for each of the additional divisions 1AA, 1A, 2AA, 2A, 3AA, 3A, 4AA, 4A,5AA, 5A, 6AA So for example, the 1AA teams are Folsom vs Bakersfield in the north and Centennial vs Mission Hills in the south. 1A is Del Oro vs Serra in the north and Chaminade vs Central Catholic in the south. And so on. What is not clear to me is how (of if) the winners of each of the north vs north and south vs south games would get together to play each other in a north versus south State Championship. Or do the winners of all these north versus north and south versus south just play those games and then that is the end of it? If anyone has any solid insight into this, I'd be interested to know how these new Regional Football Championship games play into the State Championship Bowl format.
"For the past several years the (CIF) Football Advisory Committee and the Commissioners Committee have been discussing formats that would allow all Section Champions, who choose to participate, the opportunity to play in a Regional Football Bowl Championship."
A "Regional Football Bowl Championship."
What is NOT clear is how (or if) the teams that would play in this Regional Football Bowl Championship" would then move to the State Championship Bowl(s).
Here is a summary of the points made in CIF's October memo:
1.) This proposal will advance all Section Champions, if they choose to participate, to a CIF Regional Football Championship.
2.) CIF Sections with an "Open Division" will be allowed to replace one or more of their Section Champions from another division with a team that participated in that Section's Open Division. That Section Open Division team may only replace a Section Champion from the division in which they would have been slotted if they had not been selected for the Section's Open Division.
3.) All teams in the CIF Regional Football Championship Bowl Games will be slotted based on "competitive equity". (Which I think is going to be a whole new can of worms.) (And another perhaps more minor can of worms will be how CIF will fill out the bracket if a sectional champion decides not to participate.)
4.) There will be two Open Divisions in the CIF Regional Football Championships. The first will be open to all teams regardless of enrollment that have qualified through their respective section play-offs. The best team from the north and the best team from the south (assume as decided by the CIF commissioners based on "competitive equity") will be selected to participate and will receive byes directly to the CIF State Football Championships Bowl Open Division game. The second Open Division in the CIF Regional Football Championship Bowl Games will be open to all teams with an enrollment of 1,250 students or less that have qualified through their respective section play-offs (and again I assume they will be chosen by the CIF commissioners based on their view of "competitive equity".) These teams will participate in the CIF Regional Football Bowl Games wih the winner advancing to the CIF State Football Championship Bowl Game (1,250 or less).
And finally the memo provides some thoughts on how to put some of the Central Section divisions into the north and some of that Section's divisions into the south.
They then have a page that shows Competitive Equity Based "Mock Selection" (Using Teams from 2013)
The large Open Division has De La Salle representing the north ad Bosco the south. The Open - 1,250 has Sacred Heart Prep playing Central Catholic in the north and Crenshaw playing Christian in the south. (Which perhaps highlights the issue of "competitive equity" In this mock they have Sacred Heart in the smaller Open and El Cerrito in 4AA. But as I recall El Cerrito was heavily favored to beat Sacred Heart so more likely El Cerrito would have been in the small Open with Sacred Heart in 4AA.)
It also has a mock selection for each of the additional divisions 1AA, 1A, 2AA, 2A, 3AA, 3A, 4AA, 4A,5AA, 5A, 6AA So for example, the 1AA teams are Folsom vs Bakersfield in the north and Centennial vs Mission Hills in the south. 1A is Del Oro vs Serra in the north and Chaminade vs Central Catholic in the south. And so on. What is not clear to me is how (of if) the winners of each of the north vs north and south vs south games would get together to play each other in a north versus south State Championship. Or do the winners of all these north versus north and south versus south just play those games and then that is the end of it? If anyone has any solid insight into this, I'd be interested to know how these new Regional Football Championship games play into the State Championship Bowl format.
Mathman - Its odd that CCS would recommend three open divisions when the memo you posted states "an Open Division" which sound like only one open division would get the favor of two spots. This might mean CCS would only be granted 3 bids of section champs (CCS rules out Division B and Division C for RBG bids) and one extra for a total of 4 bids.
FB...As noted earlier, CCS appears to have two options for their play-off realignment. The first calls all of the 3 bowl eligible divisions an Open Division. Open 1, Open 2 and Open 3. As I understand it, they believe that the way teams are divided into these three bowl eligible divisions plus the fact that a B/C league team can opt in meets the definition of it being an Open Division. If so then they believe that CIF will agree that they can put forth their 5 "sectional champs" from any or all of these 3 Open Divisions.
However if they have to go with Option Two where there is just one Open Division and two other bowl eligible divisions then they think that all four semifinalists in that Open Division could be named to a CIF Regional Game as well as the winners of the other two bowl eligible divisions. In other words they would put forward 5 of those 6 teams.
As to whether CCS has 5 sections or 3, the feeling seems to be that they have 5 sections with simply a different way to decide who is a "section champ". Guess the teams that win a non bowl eligible division will put up a banner in their gym that says 2015 Large School Non Bowl Eligible Champion.
However if they have to go with Option Two where there is just one Open Division and two other bowl eligible divisions then they think that all four semifinalists in that Open Division could be named to a CIF Regional Game as well as the winners of the other two bowl eligible divisions. In other words they would put forward 5 of those 6 teams.
As to whether CCS has 5 sections or 3, the feeling seems to be that they have 5 sections with simply a different way to decide who is a "section champ". Guess the teams that win a non bowl eligible division will put up a banner in their gym that says 2015 Large School Non Bowl Eligible Champion.
I think this is actually a fantastic idea! The top 3 division actually line up really well with the NCS divisions. Wilcox would have been the only team not in a natural enrollment bracket, based on the NCS numbers (natural D-II, playing in D-III). Palma and SHP would naturally had opted up, much like Marin Catholic or Cardinal Newman.
I still do not like the idea that a non-champion could play in a regional game. The article suggested that this was expected to pass. I completely disagree. There's no reason why 8 sections would accommodate 2 (assuming the SDS would even be on board with this nonsense). I would guess that the CIF would still only recognize the champions of each division, but that the CCS would only push the winners of the top 3 as regional candidates.
This setup does present a problem, however. Even though, the divisions, in terms of suggested strength (not actual), would be Open 1, Open 2, Open 3, D-IV (or whatever they call it), and D-V (again, whatever name is assigned). The CCS would have to get the CIF to accept that the Open divisions correlate to the three state divisions. I don't see that as a major hurdle, though.
Cal14 According to the October 1 CIF memo this CIF Regional Football Championship Bowl proposal was approved in concept by the CIF Football Advisory Committe by a 10 - 0 vote. Then approved in concept by the Commissioners Committee 10 - 0. The CIF Executive Committee then supported it in concept by an 8 - 0 vote and the Commissioners Committee then supported it to be forwarded to the CIF Federated Council by a 10 - 0 vote. Since then the Athletic Administrators Advisory Committee and the CIF Executive Committee met again but there is no indication in the memo what they did. The proposal went to the Federated Council on October 27 and is supposed to have a final vote on January 1, 2015.
Following the Proposal Summary there is this statement:
Fiscal Impact: It is anticipated that this event would increase the section revenue profit sharing based upon the past two years' experience.
As others on this board have suggested, more revenue can be a strong driving factor.
And this from Cal Hi Sports:
This is considered to be the last such meeting because next year a new CIF bowl system is expected to be in place in which every section champion is going to play on in 13 separate divisions. The commissioners will still meet but they will basically be doing seedings and matchups instead of conducting a vote that will end the seasons of many teams.
"We hope the sections pass the proposal so this is the last year so many teams get left at home," said Ron Nocetti of the CIF. "Each section will have to develop a policy of how to work with the new format if its passed in January."
Following the Proposal Summary there is this statement:
Fiscal Impact: It is anticipated that this event would increase the section revenue profit sharing based upon the past two years' experience.
As others on this board have suggested, more revenue can be a strong driving factor.
And this from Cal Hi Sports:
This is considered to be the last such meeting because next year a new CIF bowl system is expected to be in place in which every section champion is going to play on in 13 separate divisions. The commissioners will still meet but they will basically be doing seedings and matchups instead of conducting a vote that will end the seasons of many teams.
"We hope the sections pass the proposal so this is the last year so many teams get left at home," said Ron Nocetti of the CIF. "Each section will have to develop a policy of how to work with the new format if its passed in January."
Not a single word of that suggested that a team that didn't win a section title would get consideration. The above was merely stating that it's expected that all division winners would get a chance to continue play... that's been known for a while.
I like the CCS proposal better than it is and the matchups seem reasonable. Even if only 3 teams - the open divisions 1,2,3 only qualify for the bowl, it isn't any worse an ability to get a team in the bowl than it is now. I think CCS now practically speaking has two shots at a bowl now and three max. I hope the section Board of Managers passes it.
Sorry cal14. Perhaps I should have pointed out that in the CIF's own October 1 memo regarding their proposal for the Regional Football Championships they said this:
2.) CIF Sections with an "Open Division" will be allowed to replace one or more of their Section Champions from another division with a team that participated in that Section's Open Division. That Section Open Division team may only replace a Section Champion from the division in which they would have been slotted if they had not been selected for the Section's Open Division.
Is that what you are saying will not pass?
Because as I said above, so far this language in CIF's proposal has passed all the levels except the final level at CIF.
Now having said that, I do remember that last year there was optimisim that CCS was going to do away with the Open Division only to see that die at the CCS Board level. So nothing is certain until the final vote.
2.) CIF Sections with an "Open Division" will be allowed to replace one or more of their Section Champions from another division with a team that participated in that Section's Open Division. That Section Open Division team may only replace a Section Champion from the division in which they would have been slotted if they had not been selected for the Section's Open Division.
Is that what you are saying will not pass?
Because as I said above, so far this language in CIF's proposal has passed all the levels except the final level at CIF.
Now having said that, I do remember that last year there was optimisim that CCS was going to do away with the Open Division only to see that die at the CCS Board level. So nothing is certain until the final vote.
Having written all this here is what I do not understand.
This year there are 4 regional play-in games in the north and 4 in the south. There would have been 5 except that the Open Division level was chosen and given a bye straight to Carson. There was (and "always" has been) justifiable frustration about who got picked to play in these regional play-in games and who was left out. The winners of these games will go to Carson.
But if all this stuff above passes at both CCS and CIF level then there will be 12 regional games played in the north and 12 in the south. There is likely to be some frustration like why did team X get put in the 2AA division and have to play team Y when "I think team X should have been in the 2A division where they would be playing team Z."
But set that potential furstration aside. My question is after the 12 north games and 12 south games are played, who decides, and how will it be decided, who goes and plays in the state bowl games in Carson? (Assuming the current state bowl game format remains the same.)
Does the winner of north 1AA or north 1A or north 2AA get to go and play for the D 1 championship in Carson? Someone has to decide which of the 12 winners gets to be one of the 4 north teams playing for the D1 through D 4 state championship at the games in Carson.
Who chooses and what the criteria is for choosing is something I do not understand. And (as an example) assuming someone somewhere decides that this year's 1A winner in the north was more deserving for a shot at the state D1 title, it seems to me that those supporting both the 1AA and 2AA winners will have their frustration as to why the 1A winner was picked to go to Carson.
Any insight on this?
This year there are 4 regional play-in games in the north and 4 in the south. There would have been 5 except that the Open Division level was chosen and given a bye straight to Carson. There was (and "always" has been) justifiable frustration about who got picked to play in these regional play-in games and who was left out. The winners of these games will go to Carson.
But if all this stuff above passes at both CCS and CIF level then there will be 12 regional games played in the north and 12 in the south. There is likely to be some frustration like why did team X get put in the 2AA division and have to play team Y when "I think team X should have been in the 2A division where they would be playing team Z."
But set that potential furstration aside. My question is after the 12 north games and 12 south games are played, who decides, and how will it be decided, who goes and plays in the state bowl games in Carson? (Assuming the current state bowl game format remains the same.)
Does the winner of north 1AA or north 1A or north 2AA get to go and play for the D 1 championship in Carson? Someone has to decide which of the 12 winners gets to be one of the 4 north teams playing for the D1 through D 4 state championship at the games in Carson.
Who chooses and what the criteria is for choosing is something I do not understand. And (as an example) assuming someone somewhere decides that this year's 1A winner in the north was more deserving for a shot at the state D1 title, it seems to me that those supporting both the 1AA and 2AA winners will have their frustration as to why the 1A winner was picked to go to Carson.
Any insight on this?
Mathman, possibly this matter will clear up a bit after the policy is passed at CIF. But most likely it will remain a set of questionable decisions at the CIF committee level. Sure, they will not have to decide which teams get in - every team winning a sectional championship (or its substitute by section rules) gets in. But the CIF committee still has to assign each team to a CIF division.
There are 28 sectional divisions in SoCal and 23 sectional divisions in NorCal. I think I now understand that this is where the idea of the CS section joining the NorCal region. At least two CS divisions needs to be moved to NorCal in order to balance a 13 CIF division bowl system. But this factor doesn't answer your question of how the section divisions will be aligned into the CIF divisions.
This post was edited on 12/10 7:59 PM by FBAddict
There are 28 sectional divisions in SoCal and 23 sectional divisions in NorCal. I think I now understand that this is where the idea of the CS section joining the NorCal region. At least two CS divisions needs to be moved to NorCal in order to balance a 13 CIF division bowl system. But this factor doesn't answer your question of how the section divisions will be aligned into the CIF divisions.
This post was edited on 12/10 7:59 PM by FBAddict
Here is what Cal Hi Sports says. The Open Division, the Small Open Division, the 1AA, the 1A and maybe the 2AA finals will be played in Carson. That means that the winner of the north 1AA game will be playing in Carson against the winner of the south 1AA game. Same for the winner of the north 1A versus winner of the south 1A..
As for remaining divisions, the north 2A winner versus south 2A winner and same for the rest of the divisions right on down through 6AA, the north winner will play the south winner at a site or sites that are to be determined.
So, according to Cal Hi Sports, the old D1, D2, D3 and D4 games are a thing of the past. The concept of assigning teams to divisions by "competitive equity" (not enrollment) is the way things will go. With 1AA being the marquee division after the Open and Small Open divisions.
Cal Hi Sports has a couple of interesting aritcles on this just published on their website.
As for remaining divisions, the north 2A winner versus south 2A winner and same for the rest of the divisions right on down through 6AA, the north winner will play the south winner at a site or sites that are to be determined.
So, according to Cal Hi Sports, the old D1, D2, D3 and D4 games are a thing of the past. The concept of assigning teams to divisions by "competitive equity" (not enrollment) is the way things will go. With 1AA being the marquee division after the Open and Small Open divisions.
Cal Hi Sports has a couple of interesting aritcles on this just published on their website.
