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Building a winning program

Streak One

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I think this is an interesting topic that has been brought up on another thread, but I wanted to continue it without the salacious title.

Most would agree that winning attracts talent. Also, friends like playing with each other. Programs that put out players that produce in college and/or make it to the NFL is also a major draw. All of those things can happen without any undue influence.

Other things I look for in successful programs (football or otherwise) is in no order:

Coaching staff: You need a STAFF that can teach the game, scheme and build up lower levels (pop warner, frosh, JV). If you have this, it can help bridge years where the talent isn't up to a standard which happens at every school.

Scheme fit for area: Folsom going to the spread changed the course of their program. With other great teams: DLS usually has players designed for the veer and their defense. They probably have an idea of what kinds of kids they will get yearly. Grant and power football. NU and the wing-T. Monte Vista and the short passing game. You have your ideas of what works, but it also needs to be tailored to your surrounding talent pool.

Administration support: Let the coaches do their thing, support fundraising opportunities, scheduling and help push back against parental issues.

Love to hear other thoughts.
 
Imo, most coaches will say it it starts and ends with Admin. You can have a good year but having great Admin who care about kids and what drives those kids to excell is what great programs are built upon. Imo, you cant have a great program, year in and year out without great admin who stand by thier coach and allow/help build a great program.

When HC jobs come available, coaches call other coaches and ask about the Admin, ask about fellow teachers and ask about the school culture. Coaches want to coach for great schools and great Admin.

Coaching staff is extremly important. Listen, your coaches get paid pennies to coach your kids and great coaches are NOT a dime a dozen. The best coaches work their a$$e$ off for the kids. Their family is also invloved, most times for no money. Wifes have ran snack bars, help fundraise, help run social media, help with rides and even help tutor....all for free and in most cases paying out of their own pocket. Not to mention the great amount of time it takes and time given up away from any type of life away from football.
Having on campus football coaches is uber important! Our team GPA has been over 3.0 for almost 6-7 (120+ players)years if not more. The best Admins hire on campus coaches, teachers that care and will work well beyond pay grade and expected effort to teach/coach thier kids.
 
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NorCal,
While agree with you that D.O. and others have unmatched community support. I believe that comunnity support is icing, not the foundation. I would say at Inderkum the school was built before the community was built and imo Inderkum Football has helped greatly in building a community. We still say to this day that our Football Program has a responsibilty in building this commuinty.
 
I would also vote for parental buy in of the program's direction and a strong support of letting the coaches coach.
We have seen parental disruption, second guessing the coach and outright ursurpation of the coach and his program by cliques of dissatisfied parents going to the school principal demanding a change here in NorCal in the past.
 
I'm not going to make some profound statement. Just what I am able to see with my own eyes. I enjoy small town football. For years I worked at a winery. Crush goes on during football season. When my school Oakdale had out of town games we would go to Escalon games. My kids are grown so I have replaced them with kids from my church going to games with me. We have kids that are foster kids or kids with single mothers. I like exposing them to the character kids . And Coach Lou had those kids much like Oakdale . To me the programs that produce every year with local kids are more impressive that than teams that are built with imports. Now before anyone jumps on me. I have no personal issues with those schools that are successful with imports. It's just IN MY OPINION not as impressive as home built teams.. Mark has won the most games with local kids. I'm sure some years he had kids from out his district,but overall just local kids. Both Escalon and Oakdale have very good feeder youth programs. To me that's the thing that sets small town apart. But that's just this man's opinion
 
1. Coaches
2. Winning tradition
3. Style (spread, veer, wing-t, etc...)
4. Youth program
5. Community (Folsom may be best in region for this...Oakdale also comes to mind)
6. Admin
7. Local & national exposure
8. Facilities (stadium, weight rooms, etc...) (go see Granite Bay's weight room)

Any of the above mentioned things can be in any particular order. The goal of all kids and parents is to get a free education and an opportunity to play at the next level. Sometimes school x can provide a better chance at that goal than school y. In 2018, we all know, parents do whatever is best for their kids at all costs. As Streak mentioned above, winning attracts talent. But there are also a few variables that go into that as well (mentioned above).
 
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I would also vote for parental buy in of the program's direction and a strong support of letting the coaches coach.
We have seen parental disruption, second guessing the coach and outright ursurpation of the coach and his program by cliques of dissatisfied parents going to the school principal demanding a change here in NorCal in the past.
Anyone that has coached in kids sports know that parents are the hardest part of coaching. I used to coach pee wee roller hockey. Parents are unrealistic. They think you should be showing them all these complex plays. My biggest goal was getting through the season with no one getting hurt! I finally had enough of one parent and told him go get finger printed and get a background check.
 
The goal of all kids and parents is to get a free education and an opportunity to play at the next level.

This isn't true. I'm a parent of a high school player and know a lot of football players and their parents who are very dedicated and passionate about playing high school football. It's not about playing at the next level for most of them.
 
I would also vote for parental buy in of the program's direction and a strong support of letting the coaches coach.
Anyone that has coached in kids sports know that parents are the hardest part of coaching

Many coaches will tell you that the worst part of high school sports is the parents. Maybe some would argue that a bad admin can be worse than the worst parents, but maybe not by much.

I would say that the good programs do not seek parent buy-in. Instead, they invite these parents (and the kids) to buy-in or take their kids and go elsewhere. Trying to make parents happy is a fool's task. Most of the good coaches that I know have very little tolerance for the 'overly-involved' parents.
 
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Feedback,
They go hand in hand. Bad or soft admin allow selfish people to bring down a program or keep it from being built. Never once have I heard a parent complain about how the other kid should play more....
 
Integrity. Communication. Trust.

It starts with the head of the program, continues with his/her subordinates and reflects on ALL others.

Notice not a word, yet, on FB acumen, adults or kids. It’s why there are programs out there who do NOT win League year in/out, or get to a section final often, or send 2-3 players to D1 every year that continually get numbers from the student body and athletes from other sports to supplement the sport specialization families.
 
I think this is an interesting topic that has been brought up on another thread, but I wanted to continue it without the salacious title.

Most would agree that winning attracts talent. Also, friends like playing with each other. Programs that put out players that produce in college and/or make it to the NFL is also a major draw. All of those things can happen without any undue influence.

Other things I look for in successful programs (football or otherwise) is in no order:

Coaching staff: You need a STAFF that can teach the game, scheme and build up lower levels (pop warner, frosh, JV). If you have this, it can help bridge years where the talent isn't up to a standard which happens at every school.

Scheme fit for area: Folsom going to the spread changed the course of their program. With other great teams: DLS usually has players designed for the veer and their defense. They probably have an idea of what kinds of kids they will get yearly. Grant and power football. NU and the wing-T. Monte Vista and the short passing game. You have your ideas of what works, but it also needs to be tailored to your surrounding talent pool.

Administration support: Let the coaches do their thing, support fundraising opportunities, scheduling and help push back against parental issues.

Love to hear other thoughts.


I would also say the coaches connections.
I have seen a lot of kids get offers from 7 on 7 spring tournaments.

And uniforms. Some kids only want to play in nike or Adidas.

You look good you feel good. You feel good you play good.

Deion Sanders on Twitter: "U look good u feel good,u feel good u play good,u play good they pay good,they pay good u live good,u live good u thank God 4 it all! TRUTH"
 
I think this is an interesting topic that has been brought up on another thread, but I wanted to continue it without the salacious title.

Most would agree that winning attracts talent. Also, friends like playing with each other. Programs that put out players that produce in college and/or make it to the NFL is also a major draw. All of those things can happen without any undue influence.

Other things I look for in successful programs (football or otherwise) is in no order:

Coaching staff: You need a STAFF that can teach the game, scheme and build up lower levels (pop warner, frosh, JV). If you have this, it can help bridge years where the talent isn't up to a standard which happens at every school.

Scheme fit for area: Folsom going to the spread changed the course of their program. With other great teams: DLS usually has players designed for the veer and their defense. They probably have an idea of what kinds of kids they will get yearly. Grant and power football. NU and the wing-T. Monte Vista and the short passing game. You have your ideas of what works, but it also needs to be tailored to your surrounding talent pool.

Administration support: Let the coaches do their thing, support fundraising opportunities, scheduling and help push back against parental issues.

Love to hear other thoughts.
COMMITMENT. That’s the first thing IMO.Committment from the coaches, the kids the parents, and the school administration. Then VISION. What level of program do you want to build? An extracurricular level program?Where football is viewed as any other sport at the school?A competitive program, where it’s important to win, but being champs every year isn’t a goal. Or a championship program, where winning every game is an expectation, and being a champion is the goal every year. Of course, we’re talking about 3 different levels of commitment.
 
1. Coaches
2. Winning tradition
3. Style (spread, veer, wing-t, etc...)
4. Youth program
5. Community (Folsom may be best in region for this...Oakdale also comes to mind)
6. Admin
7. Local & national exposure
8. Facilities (stadium, weight rooms, etc...) (go see Granite Bay's weight room)

Any of the above mentioned things can be in any particular order. The goal of all kids and parents is to get a free education and an opportunity to play at the next level. Sometimes school x can provide a better chance at that goal than school y. In 2018, we all know, parents do whatever is best for their kids at all costs. As Streak mentioned above, winning attracts talent. But there are also a few variables that go into that as well (mentioned above).

I think that list really only applies towards the handful of kids that know they'll be playing at the college level or are in an untenable situation at their current school and need to get out. Most high school players know they're not going to get a scholarship offer or play at the next level, so the value of the school itself as a stepping stone to college plays a role. The most interesting statistic I'd like to see is how many kids playing high school football applied to a private school vs where they ended up actually attending.
 
I have seen a lot of kids get offers from 7 on 7 spring tournaments.

No. Does not happen. I have talked to 100's of recruiters and asked this question. Not one has ever said this happened. Most will not even watch the video. I know the self-promoting 7-on-7 coaches would like you to think this is true, but it is not. They do not put any value in 'underwear football'.
 
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No. Does not happen. I have talked to 100's of recruiters and asked this question. Not one has ever said this happened. Most will not even watch the video. I know the self-promoting 7-on-7 coaches would like you to think this is true, but it is not. They do not put any value in 'underwear football'.

Ok check again. Why are the big name shoe companies getting behind it and having nation tournaments?

Why are tournaments on college campuses?

Why are coaches setting up college tours for college coaches to have meet and greets with the high school kids?
Why are nfl players starting to host their own teams?

It's another way for the college to see route running feet work and most of all competition.
 
I think this is an interesting topic that has been brought up on another thread, but I wanted to continue it without the salacious title.

Most would agree that winning attracts talent. Also, friends like playing with each other. Programs that put out players that produce in college and/or make it to the NFL is also a major draw. All of those things can happen without any undue influence.

Other things I look for in successful programs (football or otherwise) is in no order:

Coaching staff: You need a STAFF that can teach the game, scheme and build up lower levels (pop warner, frosh, JV). If you have this, it can help bridge years where the talent isn't up to a standard which happens at every school.

Scheme fit for area: Folsom going to the spread changed the course of their program. With other great teams: DLS usually has players designed for the veer and their defense. They probably have an idea of what kinds of kids they will get yearly. Grant and power football. NU and the wing-T. Monte Vista and the short passing game. You have your ideas of what works, but it also needs to be tailored to your surrounding talent pool.

Administration support: Let the coaches do their thing, support fundraising opportunities, scheduling and help push back against parental issues.

Love to hear other thoughts.
You hit it on the head!!!!
 
Look at the schools that are always on top. What is their ingredient(S)
De La Salle
Cardinal Newman
Folsom
Oak Ridge
St Mary's Stockton (tough year)
Central Catholic
DO
Freedom/Antioch/LIberty As of Recent
Serra/Bellarmine/VC


You get the idea
 
@13
The kids that only want to wear the uniform (whichever logo is on it) usually wash out after:

A) Frosh ball
B) puking during gassers
C) getting trucked by an idiot teammate when 3’s go against 1’s
D) Coach says “I heard you’re pretty good at _________(non-contact sport)!”
E) 3s/4s are in...5th quarter....calls your number....wide open, you drop it...and that was your career.

Quoting Neon Deion on here is like entertaining Jack The Ripper’s dating strategies. LOL.
 
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Culture of a program. This means having a belief system that the admin, coaches, players, school, and community support and implement. The culture for a successful program entails many of the points mentioned. Admin hiring a coach who has a staff that they trust. That way there is no micro-managing. I believe that programs that put a emphasis on character building first over wins create long term success for a team on and off the field.
 
.. The goal of all kids and parents is to get a free education and an opportunity to play at the next level...

This isn't true. I'm a parent of a high school player and know a lot of football players and their parents who are very dedicated and passionate about playing high school football. It's not about playing at the next level for most of them.


Agree 100% Elevation. To say the “goal of ALL is (a scholarship) and play (in college)” is exactly what’s WRONG, not RIGHT, in High School football, my opinion.
 
Agree 100% Elevation. To say the “goal of ALL is (a scholarship) and play (in college)” is exactly what’s WRONG, not RIGHT, in High School football, my opinion.
I should have clarified.

It is the goal for some. Not all. For those that have a shot, this is the goal. Many fine young men have gotten a stellar education from Friday nights.

But I would agree- not the goal for all. I shouldn't have made a blanket statement. My apologies.
 
Admin support isnumber one. If you don’t have that you are screwed.

Many very good coaches have stopped coaching due to the direction of the admin and their getting behind and emphasis on the football program.

Also the lack of admins support when dealing with doosh parents has run off numerous coaches. If you can’t retain quality coaches, who cares what your facilities are.
 
Look at the schools that are always on top. What is their ingredient(S)
De La Salle
Cardinal Newman
Folsom
Oak Ridge
St Mary's Stockton (tough year)
Central Catholic
DO
Freedom/Antioch/LIberty As of Recent
Serra/Bellarmine/VC


You get the idea
Its a progressive process that can be interrupted at any time.

1) School administration passionate about competitive athletics
2) Coaching

3) Team synergy
4) Athlete talent

5) Multi-year winning culture
6) Community support (Alumni, fans-base, community social groups and businesses)
6.5) Powerful local and regional media alliances

7) Legacy
8) Talent magnet (Every kid talks about wanting to play on that team or to have played that team. And parents want their talented child to play there)
9) DI colleges have that coach or athletic director on speed-dial.
9.5) Powerful state and national media alliances
10) Regional and national sponsorships
 
Its a progressive process that can be interrupted at any time.

1) School administration passionate about competitive athletics
2) Coaching

3) Team synergy
4) Athlete talent

5) Multi-year winning culture
6) Community support (Alumni, fans-base, community social groups and businesses)
6.5) Powerful local and regional media alliances

7) Legacy
8) Talent magnet (Every kid talks about wanting to play on that team or to have played that team. And parents want their talented child to play there)
9) DI colleges have that coach or athletic director on speed-dial.
9.5) Powerful state and national media alliances
10) Regional and national sponsorships

Ah, but never forget one of the biggest factors of all: The ability to have no enrollment boundaries whatsoever (i.e. the private/parochials). When West Bay WCAL schools can attract athletes from the East Bay, Marin County, Santa Cruz County and well into Morgan Hill/Gilroy and beyond on a routine basis, the notion that CCS public schools are operating on a level playing field becomes utterly absurd.
 
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Ah, but never forget one of the biggest factors of all: The ability to have no enrollment boundaries whatsoever (i.e. the private/parochials). When West Bay WCAL schools can attract athletes from the East Bay, Marin County, Santa Cruz County and well into Morgan Hill/Gilroy and beyond on a routine basis, the notion that CCS public schools are operating on a level playing field becomes utterly absurd.

One underrated influence is attending a parochial junior high when applying to a private. Competition for admission to the WCAL privates is fierce, but they give preference to students applying from a parochial. If you have any old CCS playoff programs laying around, pick one up and look at the team rosters for the WCAL schools and look at how many came up through the parochial system.
 
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Ah, but never forget one of the biggest factors of all: The ability to have no enrollment boundaries whatsoever (i.e. the private/parochials). When West Bay WCAL schools can attract athletes from the East Bay, Marin County, Santa Cruz County and well into Morgan Hill/Gilroy and beyond on a routine basis, the notion that CCS public schools are operating on a level playing field becomes utterly absurd.

I agree this notion should be on the list somewhere but the biggest factor?

So if, lets say, you think this is #1 or #2 on the list, we got a problem.
Why is St. Francis-Watsonville near the bottom of the Calpreps Dynasty Ratings list or why Monta Vista Christian is not the darling of the Monterey Bay area instead of 615 of 1000. They have open enrollment.

And why would schools with closed enrollment boundaries like Mission Viejo, Corona Centennial, Folsom, Helix, Oceanside and Del Oro be toward to top of that list.
 
I agree this notion should be on the list somewhere but the biggest factor?

So if, lets say, you think this is #1 or #2 on the list, we got a problem.
Why is St. Francis-Watsonville near the bottom of the Calpreps Dynasty Ratings list or why Monta Vista Christian is not the darling of the Monterey Bay area instead of 615 of 1000. They have open enrollment.

And why would schools with closed enrollment boundaries like Mission Viejo, Corona Centennial, Folsom, Helix, Oceanside and Del Oro be toward to top of that list.

A lot of the legacy arguments for private schools was some mix of "they have open boundaries therefore they can and do recruit", but as the Folsom people have found out, success begets success. Now an argument can be made that the open boundaries allow this to happen, but it still doesn't happen unless the school has a successful program.

In the WCAL the best "football move" in decades was when Serra hired Patrick Walsh in 2001. In the 80's and 90's Serra was a bottom half WCAL team, but Coach Walsh has turned that program into a perennial Open contender, and now Serra is a destination school for some of the top players in the area.
 
Great post Streak!

Lot of good posts here with good perspective. Not much I can add other than to say I think a non-tangential element of building great teams is team discipline where discipline starts with parents then the kids then the coaching staff. The less time and effort coaches have to spend with disciplinary oversight the more they can focus on X’s and O’s.

No matter how disciplined a youth is there will always be something he will not want to do(we have all been there as a youth ;)) in practice, in a game or even playing a position. Coaches that can influence and instill discipline build a disciplined team and character that goes beyond high school.
 
I would also vote for parental buy in of the program's direction and a strong support of letting the coaches coach.
We have seen parental disruption, second guessing the coach and outright ursurpation of the coach and his program by cliques of dissatisfied parents going to the school principal demanding a change here in NorCal in the past.

Perhaps not so oddly, that seems to happen a lot at historically winning programs where the alumni, parents, boosters, etc. are spoiled by success. It happened at Del Oro which I feel confident contributed to Casey Taylor's decision to leave. He nearly left several years earlier due to problems with parents and alumni. One subpar season or even just a poor start and it can get ugly fast.

So, in short, I agree with your point.
 
...It happened at Del Oro which I feel confident contributed to Casey Taylor's decision to leave. He nearly left several years earlier due to problems with parents and alumni...
That’s right @ThunderRam, IMO the genesis for CT’s departure was the 2009 season when DO arguably had one of its best teams, there was a parental assult on CT but CT held his ground and AD had his back. I have a lot of respect for CT, Cap Christian will be a power very soon.
 
A lot of the legacy arguments for private schools was some mix of "they have open boundaries therefore they can and do recruit", but as the Folsom people have found out, success begets success. Now an argument can be made that the open boundaries allow this to happen, but it still doesn't happen unless the school has a successful program.

In the WCAL the best "football move" in decades was when Serra hired Patrick Walsh in 2001. In the 80's and 90's Serra was a bottom half WCAL team, but Coach Walsh has turned that program into a perennial Open contender, and now Serra is a destination school for some of the top players in the area.

And outside their normal area.
 
Look at the schools that are always on top. What is their ingredient(S)
De La Salle
Cardinal Newman
Folsom
Oak Ridge
St Mary's Stockton (tough year)
Central Catholic
DO
Freedom/Antioch/LIberty As of Recent
Serra/Bellarmine/VC


You get the idea
Freedom, Antioch and Liberty? How long have you been watching football in BVAL? Galli has dominated the BVAL. It took Antioch having the best player in the Bay Area in decades and took two great Freedom teams to unseat the Pirates. One of those Freedom teams tied Galli. The other Freedom team in 2016 is the only other team from the BVAL to make it to the NCS championship besides Galli. Liberty and Antioch have done absolutely nothing in that span. By "span" I mean "ever"

In terms of schools that are "always on top"

Hartwig and Galli have been the cream of the crop in terms of programs other than De La Salle.
 
Freedom, Antioch and Liberty? How long have you been watching football in BVAL? Galli has dominated the BVAL. It took Antioch having the best player in the Bay Area in decades and took two great Freedom teams to unseat the Pirates. One of those Freedom teams tied Galli. The other Freedom team in 2016 is the only other team from the BVAL to make it to the NCS championship besides Galli. Liberty and Antioch have done absolutely nothing in that span. By "span" I mean "ever"

In terms of schools that are "always on top"

Hartwig and Galli have been the cream of the crop in terms of programs other than De La Salle.

I agree that the omission of Pitt was unconscionable, with those other 3 being mentioned. But in terms of programs other than DLS, Cal has been to 3 NCS D1 finals from 2007-2017. Pitt has more for sure, but not sure Hartwig is head and shoulders over everyone else.
 
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I agree that the omission of Pitt was unconscionable, with those other 3 being mentioned. But in terms of programs other than DLS, Cal has been to 3 NCS D1 finals from 2007-2017. Pitt has more for sure, but not sure Hartwig is head and shoulders over everyone else.
GUYS....Look how many schools with good coaches and programs do not get those skilled players that are needed to build a program....Many high schools year after year do not get quality kids, but when they do, things happen, but not often, when kids play together at a young age, its possible that they will mature into skilled players, but not often...right now, take a look at how many teams have not won a game yet or maybe one or two....each area's kids are not coachable which puts the burden on the coach if his team doesn't win. AND some kids are late bloomers..
I've been to many games where the population of a school is close to 2,000 and I could only 50 to 65 in the stands...So the coach has a heavy burden on his shoulders. And look at how many schools don't give the coach much support and then you wonder how come so many coaches are looking for new positions, plus the money they make verse the time they put in does not compensate for their effort...
 
It starts with a school administration that wants to succeed at football. Then you need to get a coach that can both work with the administration and get buy in form parents/kids. It takes a special kind of coach to have that synergy with both. And then there are measures of success. DLS, Folsom, Palma, Cardinal Newman, these are all successful programs on the field with lots of banners to hang.

But what about a program like Soledad. 1 League title and 1 CCS DIV championship. But For the last 7-8 years a program that became competitive and relevant on the field. But off the field it attracted Kids to play football, stay in school and quite frankly make better life decisions. They did not have any 5 star recruits or DI players. But I would argue that it may be one of the most successful programs because of what it was and what it has become. Way more than just wins and loses. This program has helped build a better community. That truly made it a winning program.

The coach had a falling out with administrators this off season. He left, the team is win-less this season. As I mentioned it take a special coach top get that synergy. Still high numbers and good community support, I am hoping things get turned around
 
I think this is an interesting topic that has been brought up on another thread, but I wanted to continue it without the salacious title.

Most would agree that winning attracts talent. Also, friends like playing with each other. Programs that put out players that produce in college and/or make it to the NFL is also a major draw. All of those things can happen without any undue influence.

Other things I look for in successful programs (football or otherwise) is in no order:

Coaching staff: You need a STAFF that can teach the game, scheme and build up lower levels (pop warner, frosh, JV). If you have this, it can help bridge years where the talent isn't up to a standard which happens at every school.

Scheme fit for area: Folsom going to the spread changed the course of their program. With other great teams: DLS usually has players designed for the veer and their defense. They probably have an idea of what kinds of kids they will get yearly. Grant and power football. NU and the wing-T. Monte Vista and the short passing game. You have your ideas of what works, but it also needs to be tailored to your surrounding talent pool.

Administration support: Let the coaches do their thing, support fundraising opportunities, scheduling and help push back against parental issues.

Love to hear other thoughts.
HEAD COACH!!!! Backing from administration, good assistant coaches, community support and great facilities are nice to have but this won't stop a "Head Coach" from building a winning program. Two of the most important critical elements of a head coach is to promote and demote. This includes, staff, players, parents and all other football related personnel involved in the program. A head coach that has a goal to build a winning program will not allow the administration, assistant coaches, parents, players and community stop him. For myself, it starts at the head of the snake NOT parts of the tail of the snake.
 
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