Are the CIF state champs REALLY the state champs anymore?

[orebel21]

Seems like with most good teams that win their section they get penalized for winning it and get a lower seed in a higher division while teams that lose their section get a favorable chance to win state?

Look at Santa Cruz… they were highly ranked all year weirdly lose their sectional championship to a much worse team then get rewarded with an easy run to a state title. Meanwhile the lower ranked squad they lost to got moved up a division and was the 15th seed.

In the grand scheme of things, no one cares about a section title when you have a shot at winning state. Not saying Santa Cruz lost the game on purpose but shouldn’t more teams look to do this? Seems like a pretty sweet deal.

 

[CoachRandal]

My prior post on other thread. Hate to beat a dead horse but there is a lot of agreement on Competitive Equity being a messed up system that should be discarded.


Competitive Equity is a terrible system for several reasons:

- punishes success and rewards mediocrity. This conflicts with the lessons coaches are trying to teach.
- makes the lower divisions meaningless and have no historical significance. Nobody cares who wins the NIT. CBIT or weedeater Bowl. Note attendance is way down as a result.
- unfair to small schools who are moved up. We did research that shows schools moved up 2 or more divisions only win 18% of the time in first game. A fair fight would be 50%.
- It is leading to the strong teams getting stronger and the weak teams getting weaker. Transfers are moving from weak schools to strong schools because they don’t want to play in schools that compete in weak divisions.

The old enrollment based system was better than the current one. With that system all the state championship games had great teams with great players and were meaningful games that fans wanted to attend. That is no longer the case at all.

The best system is what the CCS does, which is to pull the power teams up to an Open and everyone else compete in their enrollment division. This system has been in place for 9 years and has worked great and been appreciated by all schools and coaches. They solved the early round blowout problem by using staggered brackets. A much better solution than competitive equity which causes all the problems discussed above.

It would be easy to use the “CCS Model” in other sections and for the state playoffs.

 

[larry legend33]

I would argue the Open is not only a state champ but also could have national championship implications.
(girls) Mitty vs Etiwanda is for the National Champ.
Salesian vs HW is a top 20 national game.
Below D1 is gets really murky now... Really. The current system is terrible below Open.

 

[ankleassassin]

Seems like with most good teams that win their section they get penalized for winning it and get a lower seed in a higher division while teams that lose their section get a favorable chance to win state?

Look at Santa Cruz… they were highly ranked all year weirdly lose their sectional championship to a much worse team then get rewarded with an easy run to a state title. Meanwhile the lower ranked squad they lost to got moved up a division and was the 15th seed.

In the grand scheme of things, no one cares about a section title when you have a shot at winning state. Not saying Santa Cruz lost the game on purpose but shouldn’t more teams look to do this? Seems like a pretty sweet deal.

there is absolutely NOTHING about winning that is easy come this time of year and especially when dealing with teenagers.
no matter the division, those players are state title winners. ask your son if he is a state champion and he will tell you hell yeah.

why are we hating on the kids like that?

 

[orebel21]

there is absolutely NOTHING about winning that is easy come this time of year and especially when dealing with teenagers.
no matter the division, those players are state title winners. ask your son if he is a state champion and he will tell you hell yeah.

why are we hating on the kids like that?

It’s easy to win when the teams in your actual division that beat you are removed from the bracket so you don’t have to face them again. it’s not a real state championship. not hate just facts. it’s a participation award fake title

 

[ankleassassin]

It’s easy to win when the teams in your actual division that beat you are removed from the bracket so you don’t have to face them again. it’s not a real state championship. not hate just facts. it’s a participation award fake title

ask your student if he/she calls himself a champ

 

[orebel21]

ask your student if he/she calls himself a champ

People can call themselves a lot of things. Doesn’t mean it’s warranted. This is why the upcoming generation is absolutely cooked… mediocrity is rewarded and being good gets you punished

 

[ankleassassin]

People can call themselves a lot of things. Doesn’t mean it’s warranted. This is why the upcoming generation is absolutely cooked… mediocrity is rewarded and being good gets you punished

i think high school sports has caused some real pain for you. seek help

 

[HSWIZARD73]

I would argue the Open is not only a state champ but also could have national championship implications.
(girls) Mitty vs Etiwanda is for the National Champ.
Salesian vs HW is a top 20 national game.
Below D1 is gets really murky now... Really. The current system is terrible below Open.

Unless it changes I would expect CIF to do away with the first session second session deal. That’s real robbery if some of the top teams in the state are sitting at home. Wonder what those guys who always wore LA gear and sat at center court. Would love to hear their take.

As for national great point. But what about the other side of teams that get bounced. Sure doesn’t help them.

 

[northbaybbguru]

The only true state champion is the Open champ.

no other division level winner should get that designation

 

[ankleassassin]

The only true state champion is the Open champ.

no other division level winner should get that designation

F the kids

 

[orebel21]

F the kids

F the kids

The CIF says that with competitive equity. the deserving teams are at home depressed. i know kids that lost a week ago that still have trouble getting out of bed simply because they were done so wrong by the CIF. what about those kids?

 

[ankleassassin]

The CIF says that with competitive equity. the deserving teams are at home depressed. i know kids that lost a week ago that still have trouble getting out of bed simply because they were done so wrong by the CIF. what about those kids?

then they dont want to get better. after i lost a game i was in the gym the next morning trying to fix what i did wrong. i had no plan b. i do understand the pain, however i used it as fuel.

 

[ankleassassin]

The CIF says that with competitive equity. the deserving teams are at home depressed. i know kids that lost a week ago that still have trouble getting out of bed simply because they were done so wrong by the CIF. what about those kids?

and according to everyones arguement the only real champ is open so none of the others should be sad cuz they were fake champs anyway

 

[Streak One]

I think people in general don’t care about the titles D2-D5 and that is seen in attendance and engagement. But I don’t think the CIF or the teams competing are bothered by that so it will go on as is