If that is the conclusion these innocent children draw from this experience and then indeed apply that to their worldview moving forward, I would contend that they will have much more serious issues awaiting them in life than missing a high school basketball game......
C-Let forfeits???
- Thread starter Norcal_Fan
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If that is the conclusion these innocent children draw from this experience and then indeed apply that to their worldview moving forward, I would contend that they will have much more serious issues awaiting them in life than missing a high school basketball game......
True. Especially a game many of them should'nt miss anyway. Meanwhile adults should be the one's trying to get it right on behalf of the innocent children. Not clumping them all in the same kettle to fry just to burn the guilty ones.
and you want all of us to believe that all the athletes in your circle, not one drank or worse "that's what you want us to believe, just perfect young men".
Just asking
So as adults can we just be real and stop the finger pointing and blaming the administration. First, I don't know any of the kids and I don't know any of the parents. As a parent who has raised 3 kids and as a coach who has coached hundreds of kids (boys and girls), it drives me insane when I hear parents say "my kid would never". At a party, with their friends, yes your little Angel would have a drink or two. I've coached at a big name private school in the Midwest. De La Salle and Carondelet are just as big a name out here. I'm sure they signed a code of conduct on their first day as a student not to mention as an athlete that represents the school. So you can sit and place blame on others and give your child a pass if you want to. This is a perfect teaching point. You knew what the rules were, you knew what the consequences would be for breaking said rules. You decided to make that bad decision and now you have to deal with the punishment. You can call it unfair all you want but it's not unfair if it was laid out to you before hand. Stop comparing it to the UCLA players. If they were all in the store stealing then you might have a point. If a couple of kids were drinking them yes punish those. It is my understanding that all players played a part in this. They learned a valuable lesson and all that happened was they don't get to play a high school basketball game. I think I would take that and run as opposed to having to explain underage drinking and dealing with the legal fallout from that.
paytc, I feel badly for your daughter and her teammates. I'd feel worse if it was my daughter. clearly the greatest suffering is had by the kids, not the "bracket".
but man, you're going off the rails here. you clearly don't know exactly what happened. and you arrogantly assert that those of us who are "smart enough" can know what each kid did. are you crazy? even geniuses like myself don't even know who all the kids are. actually, deranged by grief might be more accurate than crazy.
and listen a__hole, leave those florida kids out of your bull___t. your IMHO is getting old. there's nothing H about your warped O.
again, sorry about the kids. you're not helping.
I know just a bit more than most on the outside who practically know nothing about what happened. And those on the outside should wait for more information to come forward before commenting, judging, or criticizing others. Just as the admin should have done instead of rushing to condemn and punish without thinking everything through. I never said I personally had all the answers or knew any angels here on earth. Point is and that's where the focus should remain......we all know it is not right to punish everyone for the irresponsible actions of any and everyone else. The whole objective is to get things right. Not to always be right, or always think you are. Because who knows everything, or gets things right every time? My point is many think a rash decision was handed down without giving it enough thought. To say everyone definitely drank is speculation at best. Because some kids can't stand even the thought of alcohol or cigarettes. While others may be addicted. And not to mention this decision effects freshman and JV players, teams in the open division, and others who weren't even there to my knowledge.
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Paytc
I'm going to stop because you don't get it. I clearly said if it was a couple on the team, then those and only those should be punished. The administrations conclusion was the entire team played a part in this. That means the team should deal with the consequences. The party happened on Saturday and the decision came on Tuesday. Now unless you are calling the administration corrupt and incompetent, which is your right, they came to the conclusion that the team was at fault. Whether it was social media posts or snitching as you called it. They gathered their information and moved on it. Here is the best way to not have to deal with what's going on. Don't do it.
I'm going to stop because you don't get it. I clearly said if it was a couple on the team, then those and only those should be punished. The administrations conclusion was the entire team played a part in this. That means the team should deal with the consequences. The party happened on Saturday and the decision came on Tuesday. Now unless you are calling the administration corrupt and incompetent, which is your right, they came to the conclusion that the team was at fault. Whether it was social media posts or snitching as you called it. They gathered their information and moved on it. Here is the best way to not have to deal with what's going on. Don't do it.
Thank god someone else said it too.. not only would I be more afraid of my parents consequences than any basketball game, but my parents would back the school on their ruling. Paytc always preaches questioning authority, but there is not always a time or place... sorry, but in my opinion this is what makes kids soft nowadays. This is why they can't deal with adversity. This is why we have so many transfers in both HS and college. Learn to deal with the situation at hand. Might not be what you WANT, might not be what is FAIR... but guess what, that is part of life. There are rewards and consequences for your actions and for the actions of those around you.
Learn from it, move on, be better for it
So which one is your point...".I clearly said if it was a couple on the team, then those and only those should be punished."
"The administrations conclusion was the entire team played a part in this"
What is your point? That the administration could never be wrong? Or the children all played the same part in this? If it is the latter what proof do you or the administration have?
"The administrations conclusion was the entire team played a part in this"
What is your point? That the administration could never be wrong? Or the children all played the same part in this? If it is the latter what proof do you or the administration have?
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Because authority is not always right. And you only get one chance to get certain things right. Meanwhile some innocent children will possibly suffer the next two seasons at what could have been a rash conclusion to clump everyone in the boat with the 1 or 2 who may have taken things a bit too far.
But hey, I'll be the bad guy here. At least I have the courage to stand up or sit down when I have a belief or an opinion to express. And I could careless whether it is popular or not. I never said I or anyone else was always right. And again that is the point, to get it right, not to be right. Because everyone shouldn't be held responsible for the irresponsible actions of any and everyone else. That old outdated ass logic needs to be buried with the ancient simple minded folks who created it.
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My point is I'm going to side with the administration and them doing their due diligence. I have no horse in the race so it doesn't change my day to day. You on the other hand have a horse in the race so you're going to side with the players, one being your daughter. It's a tired argument that innocent ones are being punished because a couple of them did wrong. I'm going to use my 30 years of coaching and dealing with kids from all backgrounds, my experience of raising 3 kids and say that none of the players hands are clean in this. You can disagree and say that some aren't as dirty as the others but dirty hands are dirty hands. Once again they only have to deal with the punishment of missing a high school basketball game as opposed to dealing with far more serious legal problems for underage drinking. Before you ask I'm sure they weren't the only kids drinking this weekend. They were the only ones that got caught.
We may never know the full extent of the issue.
Could be some girls drank, admitted it and school punished the whole team (seems most likely based on coach’s comments)
Otherwise, maybe girls didn’t want to snitch and school had evidence something happened and punished the team.
The last unlikely scenario is enough girls admitted to the issue but there weren’t enough to play. I mean the statement released was vague enough that you could interpret things in many ways
Could be some girls drank, admitted it and school punished the whole team (seems most likely based on coach’s comments)
Otherwise, maybe girls didn’t want to snitch and school had evidence something happened and punished the team.
The last unlikely scenario is enough girls admitted to the issue but there weren’t enough to play. I mean the statement released was vague enough that you could interpret things in many ways
There's no easy answer to any of this, except maybe don't host a big party that the administration could easily find out about. Kids are kids, people are people, and dumb things get done. But ...
What schools and what teams because rumor has it there were more than 1 or 2 Carondelet as well as others at the gathering. My question is does that make it right for all in attendance to be held accountable for the irresponsible actions of 1 or 2 or even a few?
If we punished every child who was in and around the things teen agers do whether they participated or not the coaches (in all sports) would be playing these games 1 on 1, coach against coach. Many things go on both on and off every school campus in the country.
We need to single out the ones who make irresponsible decision and or the bullies and deal with them individually. Not just clump everyone together as if everyone is to be held responsible for the decisions and actions of everyone else. And we need to all be accountable, parents, players/children, coaches, athletic directors, administrations, etc... Not just pass the blame and responsibility on to children or everyone else. Lessons can be taught and learned by us all.
winetot,
You are usually one of the pretty reasonable folks on here. Part of my concern is not just that everyone shouldn't be punished for any and everyone else's irresponsible actions. But perhaps the main concern is the punishment handed down may have been too harsh. Many other forms of punishment could have been used. My daughter will graduate and be far down the road. While many of these kids may have to be punished for the next couple of seasons.
Pretty harsh penalty for those who may not have participated at all, or to the extent that a few others may have. Regardless to whether they are friends, team mates, school mates, classmates, a relative, or neighbor. Why punish everyone? And what about considering the kids moving up from freshman and JV who weren't even there?
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Clay:
After years of reading this website, I only registered today because I wanted to tell you that I find that you are one of the most reasonable people I have read on this website. In my view, you analyze the evidence extensively and reach savvy conclusions.
If I were an administrator at Carondolet, I am not sure what I would do. I am certain that I would not let the brackets be filled with an investigation pending that would possibly alter the brackets and put, for example, Pinewood at a competitive disadvantage by missing a warm-up game before facing St. Mary's.
Finally, please keep posting. I love to read well reasoned arguments and opinions.
M
My daughter used to work in the administration at C-Let last year....
Jennifer Ortega is a waste of time....
And yes last year when a DLS football player assaulted a Clet student it was
quickly pushed under the rug....
Jennifer Ortega is a waste of time....
And yes last year when a DLS football player assaulted a Clet student it was
quickly pushed under the rug....
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Wow, I never thought about it like that.... I wonder what things would look like if we applied that same logic to society? I'll think about it for awhile!
Well, we do lead the planet in incarceration rate, mainly as a result of subjectively prosecuting victimless crimes.
The incident happened on a Saturday at a parent’s house. Back in the day your Pops took care of the punishment and when it came to my Pops the school would've been the better option but now it’s the schools job to punish kids for things they did in the parents’ house. I don't get it and I'm done tying to get it.
@DonniePeckerwood I'm out in the wind, just like everyone else. A case of very unfortunate events. Hold the guilty accountable, bring up some JV players if need be. There is no honor in forfeiting. Life is all about making good decisions.
He wasn't a "DLS football player". He had already been dismissed from the team before he did that terrible act.
Similar thing goes for the one that happened a few years previous, it was a guy who had been cut from the freshman team.
In both cases, the "news" people just reported "football player" without bothering to put the word "former" before it.
Back to real discussion...
Actually the incident this year did involve both active DLS and YV football players. The DLS player played the following Friday against Cal HS until the whole thing went public. The case from the prior year was a player who had been suspended due to grades (but had played earlier that season) at the time of the incident.
That's fine and fair. But if your doing the same don't throw stones is my point. I'm sure Antelope reaps the benefits of jbs too. All good. Remember Clay isn't on the bench for what he knows about hoops he's there as a mouth piece for the media or message boards.
It's not one thing that's happened its years of things but it's become a lot clearer over the last few years.
[note--this post in response to allegation that player from Ukiah is on MM, "he's" living in a condo, query about who "he" pays his rent to. missing truth, after back and forth, deleted references. nice try, link. an apology would be more manly. and honest.]
ok, what's his name? and what's he doing on the girls' basketball team? oh wait, that's part of the conspiracy...
when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. or just double down and keep adding fake truth. don't tell me to research your lies.
ok, what's his name? and what's he doing on the girls' basketball team? oh wait, that's part of the conspiracy...
when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. or just double down and keep adding fake truth. don't tell me to research your lies.
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"Back to real discussion"....then...."I stand corrected"????
Thanks was a quick turnaround....
Like I said my daughter worked in the administration...
some knuckleheads running that place....
Not surprised that they can make a poor decision ...they seem to make many of them...almost daily...
$17,692 a year parents pay for their kids go to that poorly run school......
My suggestion ...parents....sue to get your money back...and leave
Thanks was a quick turnaround....
Like I said my daughter worked in the administration...
some knuckleheads running that place....
Not surprised that they can make a poor decision ...they seem to make many of them...almost daily...
$17,692 a year parents pay for their kids go to that poorly run school......
My suggestion ...parents....sue to get your money back...and leave
Uhhhhhh, would you prefer Kiddman not have changed his stance on that??? Not to put words in his mouth, but Kiddman obviously had one version of the story that he thought was true, Observer laid out the details/facts, and with the new information Kiddman changed his mind and acknowledged it...... what's wrong or confusing about that??? Kiddman is a legend! You're going after the wrong guy with your bitter and bent(and anonymous) agenda pal!
It seems to me that there are some real valid points being made. I think Clay should probably stop trying to justify things, it does not look good for him or Miramonte.
Paytc - I am still trying to get my head around your situation. I feel really bad for your daughter and the girls that were not involved. If it were a team get together, not put on by the parents, I would say all of the players should know better and the punishment would have fit the crime. I am still thinking about it all.
Paytc - I am still trying to get my head around your situation. I feel really bad for your daughter and the girls that were not involved. If it were a team get together, not put on by the parents, I would say all of the players should know better and the punishment would have fit the crime. I am still thinking about it all.
Don't let the parents off the hook, they were there too.. don't be naive in not thinking that the school may be trying to punish them as well...
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