CA is tourney asterisk

[colhenrylives]

It's official: The state of California's "major" college hoops scene is beyond grim; it's utterly pathetic. The 2019 NCAA I Division tourney includes just two schools from the once Golden State: St. Mary's and UC-Irvine; the former is a 11-seed, the latter is a 13-seed. A huge state with 15 percent of the U.S. population, a virtual nation within a nation, has been reduced to a basketball asterisk, a mere afterthought in the grand scheme of things. We can't fall much lower in the pecking order. Or can we?

 

[vukovich]

It's official: The state of California's "major" college hoops scene is beyond grim; it's utterly pathetic. The 2019 NCAA I Division tourney includes just two schools from the once Golden State: St. Mary's and UC-Irvine; the former is a 12-seed, the latter is a 13-seed. A huge state with 15 percent of the U.S. population, a virtual nation within a nation, has been reduced to a basketball asterisk, a mere afterthought in the grand scheme of things. We can't fall much lower in the pecking order. Or can we?

The state consistently puts out tons of NBA players so talent is there. College sports aren't a huge emphasis in the PAC-12 and even more so California colleges.

 

[colhenrylives]

The state consistently puts out tons of NBA players so talent is there. College sports aren't a huge emphasis in the PAC-12 and even more so California colleges.

If college sports are not a "huge emphasis in the Pac-12" why have a Pac-12 in the first place? The entire point of even having a Pac-12 is college sports. Not sure what you are suggesting here.

 

[larry legend33]

Were just not paying them enough. Heck at CAL you barely get a free pair of shoes and priority registration. Kentucky mommy/daddy are taken care of and so are you. The talent is still coming from this state.

 

[colhenrylives]

No doubt you are correct on all fronts. A question for you: Does a major college program have to cheat (either modestly or grossly) to be successful?

 

[vukovich]

If college sports are not a "huge emphasis in the Pac-12" why have a Pac-12 in the first place? The entire point of even having a Pac-12 is college sports. Not sure what you are suggesting here.

What I am clearly suggesting is that look at pac 12 compared to the other power 5 conferences. The fan base and financial support is not even in the same universe. Ever been to a SEC football game? Those states and cities generally don’t have pro teams and that’s so they live and breath their college teams. People on the west coast and specifically California have a million things they would rather do than tailgate and watch a bunch of 18 year olds play ball.

 

[colhenrylives]

One more thing for anyone who gives two hoots about any of this: Name one big-time, nationally-ranked college hoops powerhouse that relies on California preps (or JC guys) to rise into the top 10 or 20 on a yearly basis. Thank you.

 

[da real]

I do not know if Arizona is considered a national powerhouse now, but whenever they are good, they have a lot of players from california on their roster.

 

[colhenrylives]

Hey, stop the presses. Hold the phone. Whip out the party hats. Whoopee. California got a team in the NIT. One. Uno. Yep, San Diego. The Toreros got in as a No.6 seed. God bless 'em. That gives us a grand and ludicrous total of three, count 'em, three, teams named among the top 100 in this great republic. Wow. Where do we go to celebrate? How about the nearest mortuary.

 

[Marcskit]

Hey, stop the presses. Hold the phone. Whip out the party hats. Whoopee. California got a team in the NIT. One. Uno. Yep, San Diego. The Toreros got in as a No.6 seed. God bless 'em. That gives us a grand and ludicrous total of three, count 'em, three, teams named among the top 100 in this great republic. Wow. Where do we go to celebrate? How about the nearest mortuary.

Maybe I just imagined it, but are you not including Ariz st., Oregon , and Washington?

Here's wishing you great hoops

 

[colhenrylives]

Maybe I just imagined it, but are you not including Ariz st., Oregon , and Washington?

Here's wishing you great hoops

CA only. We can't sink much lower than three. Oh, wait. How about zero? We aren't that far away.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

No doubt you are correct on all fronts. A question for you: Does a major college program have to cheat (either modestly or grossly) to be successful?

Wasn't it Bear Bryant that said if you're not cheating, you're not trying? lol. Obviously there's been cheating at the top for a long time and everyone does it, but not many get caught. The problem with the Pac-12 is that AD's hire incompetent coaches and/or coaches that are hired don't have assistants with good recruiting pipelines. You can be the best coach but w/o players, you'll never be successful.

 

[Fentons Cream]

The funny thing is that there are several NCAA teams playing in the tourney with kids from California and in particular the Bay Area and Sacramento Area.

The better question would be why are these kids playing on teams out of state and not in their own backyard?

If I was Cal I would offer the top players from the bay every year. Why not? You are gonna loose probably anyway and or get fired. At least people who are interested in Nor-Cal basketball will either come to games and/or be slightly more interested in scores and games. Its really sad.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

The funny thing is that there are several NCAA teams playing in the tourney with kids from California and in particular the Bay Area and Sacramento Area.

The better question would be why are these kids playing on teams out of state and not in their own backyard?

If I was Cal I would offer the top players from the bay every year. Why not? You are gonna loose probably anyway and or get fired. At least people who are interested in Nor-Cal basketball will either come to games and/or be slightly more interested in scores and games. Its really sad.

If you look at Cal's assistant coaches, how many have Bay Area ties to recruiting or west coast connections-one? Think it's important that whenever you get a job, you have to have an assistant with good local/regional recruiting ties. Unless you're big name like Izzo, Pitino, Callipari, etc.

 

[Streak One]

The funny thing is that there are several NCAA teams playing in the tourney with kids from California and in particular the Bay Area and Sacramento Area.

The better question would be why are these kids playing on teams out of state and not in their own backyard?

If I was Cal I would offer the top players from the bay every year. Why not? You are gonna loose probably anyway and or get fired. At least people who are interested in Nor-Cal basketball will either come to games and/or be slightly more interested in scores and games. Its really sad.

This has been my take for Cal. Offer the top local players to generate interest. You may rise above some of those players, but in their current state, many local players definitely wouldn't hurt the product.

 

[Streak One]

Randy Bennett and Russell Turner are also two of the best coaches at the MM/LM level. At some point, a HM you would find a way to get them.

It also speaks to their evaluation and getting players that fit the program who are also talented.

 

[colhenrylives]

This has been my take for Cal. Offer the top local players to generate interest. You may rise above some of those players, but in their current state, many local players definitely wouldn't hurt the product.

1. Maybe too many of the top local players aren't really Pac-12 capable.

2. Maybe too many of the top players can't qualify to be admitted to Cal.

3. Maybe too many of the top players simply don't want to go to Cal in the first place for whatever reasons.

 

[Fentons Cream]

Randy Bennett and Russell Turner are also two of the best coaches at the MM/LM level. At some point, a HM you would find a way to get them.

It also speaks to their evaluation and getting players that fit the program who are also talented.

Streak,

When you are both Randy and Russell you can sit at your current job, with nice pay and nice homes, kids in good schools and admin will almost never fire you and wait for the perfect job to bounce up to. If i am them, I sit until the best best job becomes available.

 

[Streak One]

1. Maybe too many of the top local players aren't really Pac-12 capable.

2. Maybe too many of the top players can't qualify to be admitted to Cal.

3. Maybe too many of the top players simply don't want to go to Cal in the first place for whatever reasons.

First point: This is true, but how many players on Cal are Pac-12 level right now. No reason to not prioritize local players if you can't get the upper echelon guys.

Second point: Good point. There is another side to this and possibly Cal has worked hard on players who couldn't get into school

Third point: This is the big issue. Why wouldn't top players in NorCal, especially the Bay Area, not want to go to Cal? Is it a marketing issue? LA players go to USC/UCLA.

 

[Fentons Cream]

1. Maybe too many of the top local players aren't really Pac-12 capable.

2. Maybe too many of the top players can't qualify to be admitted to Cal.

3. Maybe too many of the top players simply don't want to go to Cal in the first place for whatever reasons.

Col Henry,

1- Have you seen the team CAL has put on the floor the past 2 years? lol

2- Maybe, but Jason was admitted so that clears the deck for most kids

3- This is the truth and a hard hurdle to get over, especially now.

 

[Streak One]

Streak,

When you are both Randy and Russell you can sit at your current job, with nice pay and nice homes, kids in good schools and admin will almost never fire you and wait for the perfect job to bounce up to. If i am them, I sit until the best best job becomes available.

Same thought for me. They are in the position to sit and wait for the right job if they wanted to move on.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

1. Maybe too many of the top local players aren't really Pac-12 capable.

2. Maybe too many of the top players can't qualify to be admitted to Cal.

3. Maybe too many of the top players simply don't want to go to Cal in the first place for whatever reasons.

2. It takes a lot to not be qualified to go to Cal. Cal has a tier system in which they have athletes where they can get in, even though they may not fit the prototypical Cal student profile. They only get a number of these per year-this is the case at many colleges.

3. Cal hasn't built the reputation of being an NBA factory, so maybe a lot of kids don't think it's worth it to go there because of their NBA chances being diminished. It baffles me that kids don't think about degrees and how much they can be worth FAR AFTER their college playing days are over.

 

[ayalar09]

Hey, stop the presses. Hold the phone. Whip out the party hats. Whoopee. California got a team in the NIT. One. Uno. Yep, San Diego. The Toreros got in as a No.6 seed. God bless 'em. That gives us a grand and ludicrous total of three, count 'em, three, teams named among the top 100 in this great republic. Wow. Where do we go to celebrate? How about the nearest mortuary.

Yes we sure did! Proud of my Toreros and proud of the local kid Joey Calcaterra as well as Placer’s very own Isiah Pinero!!!!

 

[ankleassassin]

First point: This is true, but how many players on Cal are Pac-12 level right now. No reason to not prioritize local players if you can't get the upper echelon guys.

Second point: Good point. There is another side to this and possibly Cal has worked hard on players who couldn't get into school

Third point: This is the big issue. Why wouldn't top players in NorCal, especially the Bay Area, not want to go to Cal? Is it a marketing issue? LA players go to USC/UCLA.

LA is LA... nuff said

 

[da real]

I do not think "local" players will increase the fan interest in cal basketball.

I also do not think the area produces enough high level talent year in and year out that could compete at a top 25 level nationally.

What was the attendance during Rabb's two seasons?

What local players could Cal have signed in the last two to three years, that would have led them to the dance?

 

[von60118]

Cal has had 3 players drafted in the last 4 years if I am not mistaken. That is the second most in California behind UCLA. Jordan Ford is probably the only miss in the past few years. The talent level and development as been down in Northern California for a couple years now. You see it in high school and travel ball right now, IMO we have too many kids training instead of playing games and kids are scared to compete against other high level kids. Only certain high schools schedule hard games during the season ie; Sheldon,Salesian,Odowd and Modesto Christian and there are way too many so called elite aau teams. It used to be Soldiers, Phps, and the Rebels, now its like 10 teams who say they are on the circuit.

 

[Jaw Knee]

now its like 10 teams who say they are on the circuit.

It's crazy how many teams are a Adidas silver team. It's so watered down...you have so called circuit teams getting blown out by 50+ points. It's just marketing for these AAU clubs so they can generate revenue. But some families just don't know better...

 

[Streak One]

I do not think "local" players will increase the fan interest in cal basketball.

I also do not think the area produces enough high level talent year in and year out that could compete at a top 25 level nationally.

What was the attendance during Rabb's two seasons?

What local players could Cal have signed in the last two to three years, that would have led them to the dance?

There is a big gap between what Cal was this past year and being a NCAA tournament team. I don't have the full details on if they went hard after the guys that could of helped and the players chose a different spot or if they didn't put in the necessary work.

Ford was mentioned. I would throw in Jordan Ratinho (DLS/San Francisco) and Oscar Frayer (don't know full details, but I think they could have worked harder on him).

Those were all three guys that were known coming out of HS.

 

[laidbackcoach]

Interesting NIT matchup puts former Salesian PG James Akinjo back on the floor against Folsom post Mason Forbes tomorrow night as Georgetown plays Harvard. Both these programs look very strong next year with lots of young talent returning.

 

[Fentons Cream]

Im not saying any of these kids could/can play at Cal but they are playing elsewhere and some are even in the tourney this year;

Timmy Falls
Syeed Pritchard
Oscar Frayer
Damari Milstead
Terrell Brown
Jesse Hunt
JoJo Zamora
Mason Forbes
James Akinjo
Jordan Rahtino
Jordan Brown
Nasim Gaskins
Elijah Hardy

Ect Ect Ect........

Again Im not saying they all can play at CAL, what I am saying is its not much difference between these guys listed above and the guys currently on the roster.

 

[jordan24]

I do not think "local" players will increase the fan interest in cal basketball.

I also do not think the area produces enough high level talent year in and year out that could compete at a top 25 level nationally.

What was the attendance during Rabb's two seasons?

What local players could Cal have signed in the last two to three years, that would have led them to the dance?

Cal did have success and sold out games when they had a number of local players of note on its roster - Leon Powe, Ayinde Ubaka, David Paris, Richard Midgley and Marquise Kately.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Cal did have success and sold out games when they had a number of local players of note on its roster - Leon Powe, Ayinde Ubaka, David Paris, Richard Midgley and Marquise Kately.

That was a good group of kids but again, they was direct ties to Cal and the Oakland Soldiers. There's no pipeline with this group of coaches at Cal.

 

[da real]

Jordan, do you have the actual attendance numbers from those years?

Fentons i do not disagree with your point that alot of those players would play at cal but none of those guys would make cal a top 25 team this season.

 

[jordan24]

Jordan, do you have the actual attendance numbers from those years?

Fentons i do not disagree with your point that alot of those players would play at cal but none of those guys would make cal a top 25 team this season.

Couldn't find attendance figures, but the first year this team was together (2003) they were young and typical of a frosh-laden team, did well at home and struggled on the road. They did finish 4th that year with key wins vs. UCLA, USC, Arizona, Washington - all at home...I was at both the Arizona and UCLA games and those games were nationally-televised sellouts.

 

[da real]

Couldn't find attendance figures, but the first year this team was together (2003) they were young and typical of a frosh-laden team, did well at home and struggled on the road. They did finish 4th that year with key wins vs. UCLA, USC, Arizona, Washington - all at home...I was at both the Arizona and UCLA games and those games were nationally-televised sellouts.

Jason Kidd Era
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/1993.pdf 1993 average attendance was 9,344
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/1994.pdf 1994 average attendance was 10,395

Leon Powe's first year was 2003. His impact given his local status as a prep legend who had a huge following, did not impact the Cal attendance much. The 2001 and 2002 teams made the tournament.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2001.pdf 2001 average attendance was 10,273
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2002.pdf 2002 average attendance was 10,094
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2003.pdf 2003 average attendance was 10,473

2016 team made the tournament, which was Ivan Rabb's freshmen year.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2014.pdf 2014 average attendance was 7,754
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2015.pdf 2015 average attendance was 8,099
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2016.pdf 2016 average attendance was 10,182
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf 2017 average attendance was 8,910
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf 2018 average attendance was 7,375

10,000 fans seems like Cal's peak attendance. Given the East Bay's population size, the number of students on campus, and the number of local alumni, I was surprised by this number. It seems really low, particularly in the Jason Kidd era. I do not believe the players mentioned in the thread, individually or collectively move the needle locally more than Kidd, Powe or Rabb.

 

[jordan24]

Jason Kidd Era
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/1993.pdf 1993 average attendance was 9,344
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/1994.pdf 1994 average attendance was 10,395

Leon Powe's first year was 2003. His impact given his local status as a prep legend who had a huge following, did not impact the Cal attendance much. The 2001 and 2002 teams made the tournament.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2001.pdf 2001 average attendance was 10,273
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2002.pdf 2002 average attendance was 10,094
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2003.pdf 2003 average attendance was 10,473

2016 team made the tournament, which was Ivan Rabb's freshmen year.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2014.pdf 2014 average attendance was 7,754
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2015.pdf 2015 average attendance was 8,099
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2016.pdf 2016 average attendance was 10,182
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf 2017 average attendance was 8,910
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf 2018 average attendance was 7,375

10,000 fans seems like Cal's peak attendance. Given the East Bay's population size, the number of students on campus, and the number of local alumni, I was surprised by this number. It seems really low, particularly in the Jason Kidd era. I do not believe the players mentioned in the thread, individually or collectively move the needle locally more than Kidd, Powe or Rabb.

Didn’t Cal play at Oracle a few times during the Kidd era?

 

[colhenrylives]

Cal won the national title in 1959. Relevant? Maybe. That's NorCal's last major college crown. Hasn't been the same since. The drought has lasted well over two full generations, going on three. Nothing indicates any change anytime soon.

 

[colhenrylives]

Anteaters rule. Thank goodness for UCI, the last CA unit standing in the Large Fandango.