Change?

[Scott2138]

Thank you, Nathan is loving it so far and is with a really good group of student-athletes. Should be a great place to grow and develop in all areas of life. He had a great summer overseas and is excited.

View embedded media

Now on to SHC, I could write a book on all the drama I saw but I really like the upper-level admin folks and have respect for Coach DB, so I will never do that but... I will say what I believe the major issue is, has been, and will continue to be.

The program has had talent but when you have talent on your team that usually means knowledgeable parents about the game. The parents of talented kids understand the game and have expectations of the program from a developmental perspective.

Parents of talented athletes want scholarship offers and if a coach is not winning that's a problem in the scholarship process. If a coach can't make calls to D1 coaches, send emails regularly or have D1 coaches come to practice to see these kids, its a problem. If the HS coach is just relying on the AAU coach to get the kid a scholarship, it's a problem. In most cases (during my time), SHC basketball parents watch their kid play against other WCAL kids at the youth level and dominate these kids, but once they get to SHC the tables turn and the talented kids are getting beat by a less talented team. This creates problems on and off the court.

While at SHC some of the best basketball conversations were with the parents of talented kids. But I consistently would hear the parents are the problem, lol. The parents were never the problem and in most cases, coaches on the HS level just don't know how to deal with parents and misunderstand the parent's role and dismiss the hard work these parents have put into making sure their kid has been developed to be the best basketball player they can be while putting the kid in a position to get one of the 18K spots available at the D1 level out of a pool of 500K.

The pressure on a HS coach to get a kid a D1 scholarship is real. We have all these basketball social media groups highlighting kids all year long and because it's on social media or a camp highlight WE all think the kid is a D1 player. But the reality, obtaining a D1 scholarship is hard work and it takes a number of factors and people to make this possible. How many Bay Area or NorCal player for that matter was highlighted on social media as being a D1 player or the best in NorCal and actually received a D1 scholarship? I don't know but I would guess not more than 15.

Until SHC understand that if they want talented kids and desire winning they must be prepared to deal with the expectations of parents of talented kids as well as putting in a considerable amount of work preparing and pushing these kids to the next level. No parent is going to want to attend or stay at SHC if they can clearly see the desired expectations are not going to be met.

Hello Dr. Markppd. I liked your above comments and enjoyed your son playing for SHC. Nate always had a nice shooting range and touch and was a nice young man. His demeanor was cool and calm. I liked him and he was definitely a good kid. Having said all this, SHC had decent players those years your son was there. (Hollins, etc) I noticed you had a little son too and watched him shoot around during the games (at half time) and thought he would eventually be coming to SHC when the time came. I was disappointed to hear players like Hollins and your son left. During those seasons, SHC didn't have the best players or play to their potential as a team either compared to the rest of the league. SI had a stellar team the last two years and Serra, St. Francis, Bellarmine, and Mitty were no joke either. You stated you respected D. Barbour, but even when he was there he couldn't get the kids to play their best ball or play defense anymore as it seemed that way from the outside. Mr. Barbour had a nice pipeline with the SF rebels that brought a lot of talent to Ellis Street though and I'm not sure that pipeline is still there. I surmise if Barbour was still there though would your son have stayed instead of attending Walnut Creek? Can you elaborate on why we underperformed was it the coaching style or the kids didn't buy into the system anymore? Or were the expectations from the parents too high? Other than that, I agree with everything you said, there is a disconnect and I do not want to see SHC to continue to lose those good athletes especially in the basketball program when just 5-6 years ago they seem to have it all. As you know, the WCAL is no slouch league and is considered one of the best. The school needs to go back to the basics and figure it out. From what I am reading , it has to be three things. It seems like the admin office is not talking to the coaching staffs or the admin is not listening to the grants and financial aid office. But all three have to figure it out and compromise somewhere. It is never a good thing to lose 3-5 good players with some potentially playing two sports when you had them at the school in the first place. It is odd because as another observer said, the girls side does not have these problems. Maybe they need a liaison for the parents too since parents can be overbearing and unrealistic at times too. At the end of the day, we want student athletes that stay and everyone who posted said the academic and admin side were great and had no complaints. So is it really coaching or differences of opinion or just different methods in the end? About six years ago, SI had a star kid that left and didn't graduate and went to pre-entry Georgetown and then transferred to Cal? (Domingo) Kids do come and go but losing someone like like Monroe and Neal hurts the basketball team this year and next year no matter what anyone says. The kid Monroe already had college offers and leaving would not stop the offers but the fact he went to a rival school says more he didn't like the coach or the management style of some sort. Really sad because I talked to his parents at one of the games and they told me Bryce Monroe could have gone anywhere and I truly believe that but he picked SHC. Sad that the school couldn't compromise or work something out with all involved and hope this is a wake call to the admin and coaching staff. Learn from the mistakes SHC, ..Monroe was nice catch but SHC you got to know how to keep them once you have them. Mr. MarkPPD, would you consider your younger son going to SHC to play basketball if he wanted, what would have to change?

 

[jordan24]

Tough subject with lots of variables and led me to a story in the SJ Mercury last year:

 

[Hoops1124]

You have to hire the right people in Administration, Athletic Department, and Coaching Staff and they all have to be on the same page in order to attempt to have a winning product.

Very challenging task for any high school nowadays because the time demands placed on Athletic Administration and Coaching Staff to put a winning athletic program out there far outweighs salaries, stipends etc... that they are receiving.

At Sacred Heart Cathedral, who is the Principal or the President of the school and who are the Athletic Directors and are they driven, knowledgeable, intelligent, charismatic, resourceful and are they on the same page? Do they have a united vision and what are they doing to stand out from their competitors?

Who makes the coaching hires? Athletic Directors? Principal? President? Board of Trustees? Hiring Committee?

To have a winning product, you have to hire the right people and put them in the right positions at school.

 

[Scott2138]

You have to hire the right people in Administration, Athletic Department, and Coaching Staff and they all have to be on the same page in order to attempt to have a winning product.

Very challenging task for any high school nowadays because the time demands placed on Athletic Administration and Coaching Staff to put a winning athletic program out there far outweighs salaries, stipends etc... that they are receiving.

At Sacred Heart Cathedral, who is the Principal or the President of the school and who are the Athletic Directors and are they driven, knowledgeable, intelligent, charismatic, resourceful and are they on the same page? Do they have a united vision and what are they doing to stand out from their competitors?

Who makes the coaching hires? Athletic Directors? Principal? President? Board of Trustees? Hiring Committee?

To have a winning product, you have to hire the right people and put them in the right positions at school.

True, always challenging, the good schools make it look easy...the only ones that changed are the basketball coach. The athletic director for boys is Phil Freed, still the same guy forever. The football coached changed too but looks like BIG MAC is doing ok with no Peralta, one can argue that with Mac, he didn't run the same boring ball control offense and likes the passing game. When Peralta was here he had Logan White but didn't seem to let him use his arm very much. Basketball? Im not sure about Coach Mackey, he still doesn't have a winning season after 3 years, and it doesn't look like he will have one next year either unless there is something I do not know. Something tells me maybe we should have picked the Doctor, and still can next year. He has a winning history at Riordan and Half Moon Bay. Coach Barbour is at Mount Eden and went 8-18 last year, Ill give him a break since its his first year.

 

[Renard Monroe]

You have to hire the right people in Administration, Athletic Department, and Coaching Staff and they all have to be on the same page in order to attempt to have a winning product.

Very challenging task for any high school nowadays because the time demands placed on Athletic Administration and Coaching Staff to put a winning athletic program out there far outweighs salaries, stipends etc... that they are receiving.

At Sacred Heart Cathedral, who is the Principal or the President of the school and who are the Athletic Directors and are they driven, knowledgeable, intelligent, charismatic, resourceful and are they on the same page? Do they have a united vision and what are they doing to stand out from their competitors?

Who makes the coaching hires? Athletic Directors? Principal? President? Board of Trustees? Hiring Committee?

To have a winning product, you have to hire the right people and put them in the right positions at school.

There is winning and there is the CULTURE! I believe that if you do things the right way and you cultivate relationships, the winning will come! Everyone says sports builds character, it also REVEALS your character! Just as Dr.Mark said , we could write a book about it and yes I am still a little salty about the things that occured on the Men's side at SHC but I see the smile back on my son face again. I just witnessed his whole team come support him and his team mate at an all star event. Night and Day. I watched Nate flourish after leaving SHC because he was happy and supported.
I didn't and don't ever want to be a part of a coach being fired, but also don't want my son limited high school experience to be ruined by adults who have already had their chance at high school.

 

[Scott2138]

You have to hire the right people in Administration, Athletic Department, and Coaching Staff and they all have to be on the same page in order to attempt to have a winning product.

Very challenging task for any high school nowadays because the time demands placed on Athletic Administration and Coaching Staff to put a winning athletic program out there far outweighs salaries, stipends etc... that they are receiving.

At Sacred Heart Cathedral, who is the Principal or the President of the school and who are the Athletic Directors and are they driven, knowledgeable, intelligent, charismatic, resourceful and are they on the same page? Do they have a united vision and what are they doing to stand out from their competitors?

Who makes the coaching hires? Athletic Directors? Principal? President? Board of Trustees? Hiring Committee?

To have a winning product, you have to hire the right people and put them in the right positions at school.

The school should have their own basketball tournament for once, especially the girls since they have ruled supreme for a long time. I get if the boys do not since SI and Riordan have traditionally had boys tournaments for a long time. What is the point of having such a huge gym and not showcasing it as well. The SHC basketball gym is really nice especially after the floor was just redone. Put some big screen TV's up and some different decorations and that gym can really flourish and shine making a nice venue to showcase basketball and other indoor events. Get parking at the church on game nights to attract crowds and revenue too. Organize a proper school cheering section not in the corner but in the center, etc. SHC athletic directors you lost 3-5 good athletes in basketball and football alone this year. Go out and get it done, start now to win some battles and the war.

 

[jordan24]

Scott, good ideas you bring up, but also Alumni, parents and friends of the School need to put some skin in the game, too. Either by attending alumni/school meetings, volunteering at games and fundraising events and finally putting your wallet where your mouth is. Riordan’s revival, gym renovation and new field would not have happened w/o the involvement of the whole community and the enduring Crusader Brotherhood that is our culture and a perfect example that was mentioned by Mr Monroe.

 

[Scott2138]

Scott, good ideas you bring up, but also Alumni, parents and friends of the School need to put some skin in the game, too. Either by attending alumni/school meetings, volunteering at games and fundraising events and finally putting your wallet where your mouth is. Riordan’s revival, gym renovation and new field would not have happened w/o the involvement of the whole community and the enduring Crusader Brotherhood that is our culture and a perfect example that was mentioned by Mr Monroe.

True facts I don't disagree.... I am an alumni that donates by the way and cares, I don't volunteer my time though. SHC just paid 1.3 million for the football field at Lang down the street and the basketball floor just got renovated. It is as nice or nicer in my opinion of Riordan's new floor. Nothing however beats the Riordan band at the games and it is safe to say no WCAL school has that going for it

 

[jordan24]

SF Examiner Article on NorCal Clash:
http://www.sfexaminer.com/norcal-cl...big-season-cousins-jelani-clark-bryce-monroe/

 

[iamgearyblvd]

Thank you, Nathan is loving it so far and is with a really good group of student-athletes. Should be a great place to grow and develop in all areas of life. He had a great summer overseas and is excited.

View embedded media

Now on to SHC, I could write a book on all the drama I saw but I really like the upper-level admin folks and have respect for Coach DB, so I will never do that but... I will say what I believe the major issue is, has been, and will continue to be.

The program has had talent but when you have talent on your team that usually means knowledgeable parents about the game. The parents of talented kids understand the game and have expectations of the program from a developmental perspective.

Parents of talented athletes want scholarship offers and if a coach is not winning that's a problem in the scholarship process. If a coach can't make calls to D1 coaches, send emails regularly or have D1 coaches come to practice to see these kids, its a problem. If the HS coach is just relying on the AAU coach to get the kid a scholarship, it's a problem. In most cases (during my time), SHC basketball parents watch their kid play against other WCAL kids at the youth level and dominate these kids, but once they get to SHC the tables turn and the talented kids are getting beat by a less talented team. This creates problems on and off the court.

While at SHC some of the best basketball conversations were with the parents of talented kids. But I consistently would hear the parents are the problem, lol. The parents were never the problem and in most cases, coaches on the HS level just don't know how to deal with parents and misunderstand the parent's role and dismiss the hard work these parents have put into making sure their kid has been developed to be the best basketball player they can be while putting the kid in a position to get one of the 18K spots available at the D1 level out of a pool of 500K.

The pressure on a HS coach to get a kid a D1 scholarship is real. We have all these basketball social media groups highlighting kids all year long and because it's on social media or a camp highlight WE all think the kid is a D1 player. But the reality, obtaining a D1 scholarship is hard work and it takes a number of factors and people to make this possible. How many Bay Area or NorCal player for that matter was highlighted on social media as being a D1 player or the best in NorCal and actually received a D1 scholarship? I don't know but I would guess not more than 15.

Until SHC understand that if they want talented kids and desire winning they must be prepared to deal with the expectations of parents of talented kids as well as putting in a considerable amount of work preparing and pushing these kids to the next level. No parent is going to want to attend or stay at SHC if they can clearly see the desired expectations are not going to be met.

This was very much an interesting and enjoyable read and so much to dissect.

My assumption is the Robinson's end game was for Nathan to put himself in the best position to receive a college scholarship which he did. Thats a big accomplishment and Nathan deserves it. He has an outstanding senior season and graduated. Really a delightful person and wish him continued success at the next level.

I honestly believe that Nathan would have received the offers he got had he stayed at SH. Same for Alfred Hollins. You can't tell me he improved his offers by leaving to Hillcrest. He had already had the Oregon State offer during his sophomore year. I think he had bigger dreams like UNC, but he settled for the juggernaut Oregon State??? Of note, Alfred is doing well at OSU, playing meaningful minutes and he is filling out great. Hope he improves every year and make a run at the NBA. Hollins was fun to watch and is definitely talented.

The flip side of both Nathan and Alfred leaving is that they played for better teams and probably had better team structure from top to bottom. Alfred played out of position at SH. At Hillcrest he played his natural wing position next to Ayton. He could concentrate on his craft versus having to do everything which is what he did at SH. Some kids like that challenge, some prefer something else. And by all means, THAT IS 1000% OK.

Lastly, the issues Mr. Robinson mentioned above directly implies something is wrong on the boys side of the ball. You hear not one peep of displeasure from the girls side. From top to bottom of the girls side, they have their heads screwed on straight. That ship is smooth sailing. Girls are staying all 4 years and getting scholarships to play next level. Something is going on on the boys side and it should not be like that at all. If theres one sport the boys should be good at every single year, it should be hoops. It has been that way since mid 90's. SH always got talent, but something after the Fox and Johns years has disrupted the flow. Darrell Barbour all of the sudden didnt decide he was a bad coach that couldnt control his team. There is something there and its a collective effort to make things this bad.

 

[Renard Monroe]

This was very much an interesting and enjoyable read and so much to dissect.

My assumption is the Robinson's end game was for Nathan to put himself in the best position to receive a college scholarship which he did. Thats a big accomplishment and Nathan deserves it. He has an outstanding senior season and graduated. Really a delightful person and wish him continued success at the next level.

I honestly believe that Nathan would have received the offers he got had he stayed at SH. Same for Alfred Hollins. You can't tell me he improved his offers by leaving to Hillcrest. He had already had the Oregon State offer during his sophomore year. I think he had bigger dreams like UNC, but he settled for the juggernaut Oregon State??? Of note, Alfred is doing well at OSU, playing meaningful minutes and he is filling out great. Hope he improves every year and make a run at the NBA. Hollins was fun to watch and is definitely talented.

The flip side of both Nathan and Alfred leaving is that they played for better teams and probably had better team structure from top to bottom. Alfred played out of position at SH. At Hillcrest he played his natural wing position next to Ayton. He could concentrate on his craft versus having to do everything which is what he did at SH. Some kids like that challenge, some prefer something else. And by all means, THAT IS 1000% OK.

Lastly, the issues Mr. Robinson mentioned above directly implies something is wrong on the boys side of the ball. You hear not one peep of displeasure from the girls side. From top to bottom of the girls side, they have their heads screwed on straight. That ship is smooth sailing. Girls are staying all 4 years and getting scholarships to play next level. Something is going on on the boys side and it should not be like that at all. If theres one sport the boys should be good at every single year, it should be hoops. It has been that way since mid 90's. SH always got talent, but something after the Fox and Johns years has disrupted the flow. Darrell Barbour all of the sudden didnt decide he was a bad coach that couldnt control his team. There is something there and its a collective effort to make things this bad.

TRUE

 

[iamgearyblvd]

TRUE

While Im at it, Mr. Monroe, why not Jelani and Bryce at Lowell? They are both excellent students and going to annually the best public school in the city where most students go on to be something greater than just an athlete would be any parent's dream. Obviously the level of competition on the playing field/court isnt as good as other leagues, but competition in the classroom is just as appealing.

 

[Renard Monroe]

While Im at it, Mr. Monroe, why not Jelani and Bryce at Lowell? They are both excellent students and going to annually the best public school in the city where most students go on to be something greater than just an athlete would be any parent's dream. Obviously the level of competition on the playing field/court isnt as good as other leagues, but competition in the classroom is just as appealing.

My ex-wife attended Lowell and played basketball there. Je'lani is not from San Francisco.

 

[CityVibesII]

Thank you, Nathan is loving it so far and is with a really good group of student-athletes. Should be a great place to grow and develop in all areas of life. He had a great summer overseas and is excited.

View embedded media

Now on to SHC, I could write a book on all the drama I saw but I really like the upper-level admin folks and have respect for Coach DB, so I will never do that but... I will say what I believe the major issue is, has been, and will continue to be.

The program has had talent but when you have talent on your team that usually means knowledgeable parents about the game. The parents of talented kids understand the game and have expectations of the program from a developmental perspective.

Parents of talented athletes want scholarship offers and if a coach is not winning that's a problem in the scholarship process. If a coach can't make calls to D1 coaches, send emails regularly or have D1 coaches come to practice to see these kids, its a problem. If the HS coach is just relying on the AAU coach to get the kid a scholarship, it's a problem. In most cases (during my time), SHC basketball parents watch their kid play against other WCAL kids at the youth level and dominate these kids, but once they get to SHC the tables turn and the talented kids are getting beat by a less talented team. This creates problems on and off the court.

While at SHC some of the best basketball conversations were with the parents of talented kids. But I consistently would hear the parents are the problem, lol. The parents were never the problem and in most cases, coaches on the HS level just don't know how to deal with parents and misunderstand the parent's role and dismiss the hard work these parents have put into making sure their kid has been developed to be the best basketball player they can be while putting the kid in a position to get one of the 18K spots available at the D1 level out of a pool of 500K.

The pressure on a HS coach to get a kid a D1 scholarship is real. We have all these basketball social media groups highlighting kids all year long and because it's on social media or a camp highlight WE all think the kid is a D1 player. But the reality, obtaining a D1 scholarship is hard work and it takes a number of factors and people to make this possible. How many Bay Area or NorCal player for that matter was highlighted on social media as being a D1 player or the best in NorCal and actually received a D1 scholarship? I don't know but I would guess not more than 15.

Until SHC understand that if they want talented kids and desire winning they must be prepared to deal with the expectations of parents of talented kids as well as putting in a considerable amount of work preparing and pushing these kids to the next level. No parent is going to want to attend or stay at SHC if they can clearly see the desired expectations are not going to be met.

This gets RIGHT BACK to my intial comment that the AAU circuit has poisoned the high school game. Parents investment should be tailored toward getting the best education, not picking a school for athletic scholarship potential. Spending countless hours on a Saturday and Sunday during the summer watching AAU ball does not make one an expert in basketball. It does prove a passion for the game, but doesn't always equate to knowledge of the game. It is not the job of a WCAL coach to find Johnny a DI scholarship. If a kid is talented enough, DI (and divisions down the line) will find him and the WCAL coach will oblige as much as possible. As for AAU coach, that IS their responsibility, their livlihood as a reputable AAU program depends on it. Correct me if I am wrong, AAU coaches make more per kid that a high school coach.

Playing for a WCAL school always meant being able to play defense and play through a patient offense. The total opposite of AAU. Parents invest so much money into AAU teams that they feel they have a say once high school starts. Dont like the AAU program, switch. Now, its dont like that Johnny isnt getting the looks his AAU/parents thinks he deserves, switch.

Not every "good" high school basketball player is worthy of a DI scholarship, but those that work hard, athletically gifted and have a passion for the game, will have opportunities through the JC circuit and ample DII, DIII, NAIA schools that offer kids an ultimate opportunity to earn a degree. If basketball keeps them in school long enough to earn a degree, all the better.

That more than anything has changed the high school environment. I'm afraid there is no turning back.

 

[iamgearyblvd]

This gets RIGHT BACK to my intial comment that the AAU circuit has poisoned the high school game. Parents investment should be tailored toward getting the best education, not picking a school for athletic scholarship potential. Spending countless hours on a Saturday and Sunday during the summer watching AAU ball does not make one an expert in basketball. It does prove a passion for the game, but doesn't always equate to knowledge of the game. It is not the job of a WCAL coach to find Johnny a DI scholarship. If a kid is talented enough, DI (and divisions down the line) will find him and the WCAL coach will oblige as much as possible. As for AAU coach, that IS their responsibility, their livlihood as a reputable AAU program depends on it. Correct me if I am wrong, AAU coaches make more per kid that a high school coach.

Playing for a WCAL school always meant being able to play defense and play through a patient offense. The total opposite of AAU. Parents invest so much money into AAU teams that they feel they have a say once high school starts. Dont like the AAU program, switch. Now, its dont like that Johnny isnt getting the looks his AAU/parents thinks he deserves, switch.

Not every "good" high school basketball player is worthy of a DI scholarship, but those that work hard, athletically gifted and have a passion for the game, will have opportunities through the JC circuit and ample DII, DIII, NAIA schools that offer kids an ultimate opportunity to earn a degree. If basketball keeps them in school long enough to earn a degree, all the better.

That more than anything has changed the high school environment. I'm afraid there is no turning back.

City, theres no secret sauce here. Follow the yellow brick road and you will see the systematic pathway of a family that identifies their child's athletic talent and what is the best way to get that child the maximum opportunity to be a professional athlete. It is no different than a parent that knows their child is going to be an emerging scientist or software developer and sending their kids to specialty schools that utilize their talents the best way possible.

If you are De La Salle, Mitty, Serra, Mater Dei, Sierra Canyon, you have a built in-too big to fail system that is not going to break anytime soon. Look at the outrageous talent year after year Sue Phillips is pulling in for her girls team! Theres no stopping machines like that unless youre a 1991 Pittsburg team.

 

[jordan24]

Iamgeary, the one common thread from Mr Neal's, Monroe's and Dr. Robinson's posts are that their sons are happy in their current environment and feel supported. Yes, it's a given parents want to make sure the school has good academic and sports programs...Though, synergies need to exist throughout the school (not just checking the box) and cultures are organically created over years, in most cases, decades. Je'Lani and Bryce's entire team showing up in support of their teammates, an impromptu team meeting at half court after last night's all-star game is not in any check box - it's driven by a school's culture.

 

[SHgradSIdad]

It is not the job of a WCAL coach to find Johnny a DI scholarship.

I am no expert by any means but doesn't the role of HS coach bear some responsibility in this? Would like to hear others' opinion on this.

 

[Renard Monroe]

It is not the job of a WCAL coach to find Johnny a DI scholarship.

I am no expert by any means but doesn't the role of HS coach bear some responsibility in this? Would like to hear others' opinion on this.

A coach is a special person! They are suppose to wear many hats. Coach, counselor, mentor, nobody is perfect. We all make mistakes. We say things that we wish we could take back, etc...
My opinion- a high school coach should cultivate relationships with Universities to help student athletes achieve their goals. Aren't our jobs as adults to guide the youth for higher education? In our son case, we didn't and don't need a high school coach to go out and do the extra , but I will say this , every school that has recruited Bryce has wanted interaction with the High School coach and wanted to attend practice. Multiple schools came to watch Bryce in open gym last year at SHC and multiple schools have reached out to attend this Fall as well.
Everyone has an opinion. All opinions are valid and can be respected. I just feel when you take on a position of a High school coach you put your players first and you do what you can to help. Coaches are the first to say " oh yeah I coached Little Johnny, I helped him get there" that's when they make it! So actually do your part!

 

[iamgearyblvd]

Iamgeary, the one common thread from Mr Neal's, Monroe's and Dr. Robinson's posts are that their sons are happy in their current environment and feel supported. Yes, it's a given parents want to make sure the school has good academic and sports programs...Though, synergies need to exist throughout the school (not just checking the box) and cultures are organically created over years, in most cases, decades. Je'Lani and Bryce's entire team showing up in support of their teammates, an impromptu team meeting at half court after last night's all-star game is not in any check box - it's driven by a school's culture.

TBH, this topic has been given far too much thought. Assuming <5% of kids in every grade will leave their current school for whatever reason and that is their choice and should never be examined. Always glad a child/family picked SH. Its a real good school despite its geographic challenges. It reflects the SF community and does its best to enrich kids to become the best they can.

 

[drmarkppd]

This gets RIGHT BACK to my intial comment that the AAU circuit has poisoned the high school game. Parents investment should be tailored toward getting the best education, not picking a school for athletic scholarship potential. Spending countless hours on a Saturday and Sunday during the summer watching AAU ball does not make one an expert in basketball. It does prove a passion for the game, but doesn't always equate to knowledge of the game. It is not the job of a WCAL coach to find Johnny a DI scholarship. If a kid is talented enough, DI (and divisions down the line) will find him and the WCAL coach will oblige as much as possible. As for AAU coach, that IS their responsibility, their livlihood as a reputable AAU program depends on it. Correct me if I am wrong, AAU coaches make more per kid that a high school coach.

Playing for a WCAL school always meant being able to play defense and play through a patient offense. The total opposite of AAU. Parents invest so much money into AAU teams that they feel they have a say once high school starts. Dont like the AAU program, switch. Now, its dont like that Johnny isnt getting the looks his AAU/parents thinks he deserves, switch.

Not every "good" high school basketball player is worthy of a DI scholarship, but those that work hard, athletically gifted and have a passion for the game, will have opportunities through the JC circuit and ample DII, DIII, NAIA schools that offer kids an ultimate opportunity to earn a degree. If basketball keeps them in school long enough to earn a degree, all the better.

That more than anything has changed the high school environment. I'm afraid there is no turning back.

This gets RIGHT BACK to my intial comment that the AAU circuit has poisoned the high school game. Parents investment should be tailored toward getting the best education, not picking a school for athletic scholarship potential. Spending countless hours on a Saturday and Sunday during the summer watching AAU ball does not make one an expert in basketball. It does prove a passion for the game, but doesn't always equate to knowledge of the game. It is not the job of a WCAL coach to find Johnny a DI scholarship. If a kid is talented enough, DI (and divisions down the line) will find him and the WCAL coach will oblige as much as possible. As for AAU coach, that IS their responsibility, their livlihood as a reputable AAU program depends on it. Correct me if I am wrong, AAU coaches make more per kid that a high school coach.

Playing for a WCAL school always meant being able to play defense and play through a patient offense. The total opposite of AAU. Parents invest so much money into AAU teams that they feel they have a say once high school starts. Dont like the AAU program, switch. Now, its dont like that Johnny isnt getting the looks his AAU/parents thinks he deserves, switch.

Not every "good" high school basketball player is worthy of a DI scholarship, but those that work hard, athletically gifted and have a passion for the game, will have opportunities through the JC circuit and ample DII, DIII, NAIA schools that offer kids an ultimate opportunity to earn a degree. If basketball keeps them in school long enough to earn a degree, all the better.

That more than anything has changed the high school environment. I'm afraid there is no turning back.

Your post is part of the issue with the current state of basketball in the US. Some believe HS should have the responsibility and others feel its AAU. The basketball community is torn. This is why the NCAA is trying to move away from AAU.


I agree with you regarding the investment parents make in the AAU system and this does give parents the feeling of entitlement when it comes to playing on the HS level. I also agree with you in that if a kid is unhappy playing on one team they leave and go to another. That mentality has spilled over to the HS system but has come from the College level (811 transfers as of today) which adopted it from the NBA level. LBJ has played on three NBA teams all because he didn't like what was or was not happening, his choice.


Transferring for my son was done for a number of reasons. The fact that he could continue playing basketball was a bonus. Nathan wanted to win a state championship as did the rest of the team and coaching staff. The overall experience and journey the boys at LL were on started in the 6th grade. So for us transferring to our home school was a win win all the way around. We did fall short of the state championship but the excitement and energy in the community was next level and all centered around team expectations, not individual goals.



I do know a large number of parents who are passionate about the game and tend to be a bit over educated on what they think they know about the game, lol. However the parents I dealt with at SHC had experience at the next level as players be it football or basketball, but I know the types of parents your targeting.


I will say this many not all kids playing HS basketball want to play in college at any level and the amount of misinformation being floated is damaging to kids. You said if a kid is talented enough, DI (and divisions down the line) will find him. Thats not true but people keep saying that. Their will always be exceptions to this but they are exceptions, Arron Gordan, etc. But the majority of kids will need all the help they can get. I think the HS coach should be helping kids get to the next level and if you cant do that in this generation, well, getting players and keeping players will be a challenge.

If the work a kid puts in is not exploited and promoted in the best way possible the end can result in being looked over. As I said in my post getting a scholarship is hard work for all involved and if a kid opts not to play AAU and focus on HS ball during the summer then what? On the LL starting five not one kid played AAU basketball the summer before their senior year, not one! I hounded the LL coach towards the end of the season to make calls and follow-up with coaches, send film, you name it I was on it. In the end it worked out without the help of an AAU coach, just the parent and the HS coach. I don't believe this was an exception but should be the norm.

 

[drmarkppd]

This was very much an interesting and enjoyable read and so much to dissect.

My assumption is the Robinson's end game was for Nathan to put himself in the best position to receive a college scholarship which he did. Thats a big accomplishment and Nathan deserves it. He has an outstanding senior season and graduated. Really a delightful person and wish him continued success at the next level.

I honestly believe that Nathan would have received the offers he got had he stayed at SH. Same for Alfred Hollins. You can't tell me he improved his offers by leaving to Hillcrest. He had already had the Oregon State offer during his sophomore year. I think he had bigger dreams like UNC, but he settled for the juggernaut Oregon State??? Of note, Alfred is doing well at OSU, playing meaningful minutes and he is filling out great. Hope he improves every year and make a run at the NBA. Hollins was fun to watch and is definitely talented.

The flip side of both Nathan and Alfred leaving is that they played for better teams and probably had better team structure from top to bottom. Alfred played out of position at SH. At Hillcrest he played his natural wing position next to Ayton. He could concentrate on his craft versus having to do everything which is what he did at SH. Some kids like that challenge, some prefer something else. And by all means, THAT IS 1000% OK.

Lastly, the issues Mr. Robinson mentioned above directly implies something is wrong on the boys side of the ball. You hear not one peep of displeasure from the girls side. From top to bottom of the girls side, they have their heads screwed on straight. That ship is smooth sailing. Girls are staying all 4 years and getting scholarships to play next level. Something is going on on the boys side and it should not be like that at all. If theres one sport the boys should be good at every single year, it should be hoops. It has been that way since mid 90's. SH always got talent, but something after the Fox and Johns years has disrupted the flow. Darrell Barbour all of the sudden didnt decide he was a bad coach that couldnt control his team. There is something there and its a collective effort to make things this bad.

Thanks,
Great questions, I don't know if Nathan would have stayed at SHC if DB would have stayed. However I know we would have had a conversation prior to leaving regarding position and role. Which would have been a major factor. At 6’4 in HS you can be placed in a position that may not help a kid at the next level.

Having played in a power five conference, my concern with Nathan being 6’4 playing at SHC was, how often he would have the ball in his hands (not to score but to make plays, make others around him better) to develop his PG skill set? In HS he can play 1,2,3 and 4 but at the next level he would be limited to play the 1 and 2. On recruiting visits he was asked to play the PG position and had we not have been working on his ball handling or gone to the UK to play for Great Britian things might have turned out another way for him. Because most HS coaches still believe the guards are supose to be between 5'11 and 6'2.

I will say this about DB, he is a really, really nice guy. I didn't discuss Nathan attending SHC, we were not recruited or promised anything. He allowed my son to play Varsity as a freshman and that was his decision. We went to SHC to win a HS championship and it was said that would have been the best place to do it, at that time. However sometimes in life we all experience challenges and they may or may not effect our overall preformance at work, which can be an issue in winning a championship.

The team underperformed for a number of reasons but it all came down to too many cooks in the kitchen. I also think underachieving came down to the type of expectations of the parents combined with the willingness of the players to play together as one. I would support my son in attending any school but knowing what I know now, I would also determine what exceptions my son has regarding the sport and what expectations the HS program on winning a championship.

 

[CityVibesII]

It is not the job of a WCAL coach to find Johnny a DI scholarship.

I am no expert by any means but doesn't the role of HS coach bear some responsibility in this? Would like to hear others' opinion on this.

I do believe a coach has an obligation to make himself available to college coaches, but the student/athlete at least has to get ball rolling. Send videos, fill out questionnaires, write/phone coach. If college coach shows interest, he will call the coach. The WCAL high school coach should be open to promoting worthy student/athletes, making initial contact if student not comfortable. I believe a WCAL coach responsibility starts with building a program, while balance work/life. High school coaches are not well paid.

 

[iamgearyblvd]

I do believe a coach has an obligation to make himself available to college coaches, but the student/athlete at least has to get ball rolling. Send videos, fill out questionnaires, write/phone coach. If college coach shows interest, he will call the coach. The WCAL high school coach should be open to promoting worthy student/athletes, making initial contact if student not comfortable. I believe a WCAL coach responsibility starts with building a program, while balance work/life. High school coaches are not well paid.

This is a very good point. Its not a full time job. Its actually more of an extra curricular for a teacher. So thats more hours of a day that a teacher has to put in for practices, games, travel, etc. And the stipend will vary but usually its on the low-end. A coach does it because he genuinely loves the kids and loves the challenge and its not looking at the position as money making opportunity. .... Then you have a guy like Gary McKnight of Mater Dei. The alumni/Orange County community flush with Scrooge McDuck amounts of money pouring into the program. Have you seen their gym? They have car dealership sponsorships, nike, gatorade, and bank sponsors. He puts together national tournaments locally as well and puts his team in national tournaments around the country. Of course kids and families are going to want to play for this guy. I guarantee you he is not making a modest teacher's salary. If thats what you want your coach to do, your bar is set way too high.

 

[colhenrylives]

At the MD factory, it's the assistant coaches who actually do the day-to-day heavy lifting. McKnight can delegate just about anything and everything to his horde of minions who do his bidding without fail. The MD hoops monster is more detailed and organized than many college programs. The budgets and results reflect that.

 

[Doctor of Hoopology]

A coach is a special person! They are suppose to wear many hats. Coach, counselor, mentor, nobody is perfect. We all make mistakes. We say things that we wish we could take back, etc...
My opinion- a high school coach should cultivate relationships with Universities to help student athletes achieve their goals. Aren't our jobs as adults to guide the youth for higher education? In our son case, we didn't and don't need a high school coach to go out and do the extra , but I will say this , every school that has recruited Bryce has wanted interaction with the High School coach and wanted to attend practice. Multiple schools came to watch Bryce in open gym last year at SHC and multiple schools have reached out to attend this Fall as well.
Everyone has an opinion. All opinions are valid and can be respected. I just feel when you take on a position of a High school coach you put your players first and you do what you can to help. Coaches are the first to say " oh yeah I coached Little Johnny, I helped him get there" that's when they make it! So actually do your part!

 

[Doctor of Hoopology]

I know during my coaching tenure, I will do everything I can to help any of my players and players I know at other schools or have coached against, achieve their dreams to play at the next level. I have already fielded 2 calls from college coaches regarding Bryce ( and there will be certainly more) and I am truly excited to work with him on and off the court to help him any way I can, play at the highest level for him at the college level. I have spoken to college coaches about Nathan Robinson on a number of occasions. I have known Nathan and his family for years through the Olympic Club and would do anything to help him achieve his dream of playing Div. 1 college basketball. I love the process of helping players (mine or otherwise) and am always happy to give positive recommendations to college coaches of players, I have been lucky to coach or have been lucky to have coached against. I also love going to their college games and supporting the players any way I can. I follow many of my players via their school websites, online streaming and stats online. Its a win-win-win situation. The player wins, I win as a coaching supporter and the college coach and program wins. And, the school that recruits my players keep calling for more players in the future! I am a very proud Papa, when any of my players are able to play at any level of college ball and fortunately I have had more than a few at every stop along my coaching career. I am quite excited about the prospect of a number of players playing beyond their HS careers on the current Riordan team and will do whatever I can (make phone calls, send video, spend extra time in the gym working on their game, watch video with them, etc.) for them to fulfill that desire.
Any HS coach that isn't doing that is missing a golden opportunity.

Best swishes,
Coach Forslund

 

[Crosstown Rival]

Your post is part of the issue with the current state of basketball in the US. Some believe HS should have the responsibility and others feel its AAU. The basketball community is torn. This is why the NCAA is trying to move away from AAU.


I agree with you regarding the investment parents make in the AAU system and this does give parents the feeling of entitlement when it comes to playing on the HS level. I also agree with you in that if a kid is unhappy playing on one team they leave and go to another. That mentality has spilled over to the HS system but has come from the College level (811 transfers as of today) which adopted it from the NBA level. LBJ has played on three NBA teams all because he didn't like what was or was not happening, his choice.


Transferring for my son was done for a number of reasons. The fact that he could continue playing basketball was a bonus. Nathan wanted to win a state championship as did the rest of the team and coaching staff. The overall experience and journey the boys at LL were on started in the 6th grade. So for us transferring to our home school was a win win all the way around. We did fall short of the state championship but the excitement and energy in the community was next level and all centered around team expectations, not individual goals.

View embedded media

I do know a large number of parents who are passionate about the game and tend to be a bit over educated on what they think they know about the game, lol. However the parents I dealt with at SHC had experience at the next level as players be it football or basketball, but I know the types of parents your targeting.


I will say this many not all kids playing HS basketball want to play in college at any level and the amount of misinformation being floated is damaging to kids. You said if a kid is talented enough, DI (and divisions down the line) will find him. Thats not true but people keep saying that. Their will always be exceptions to this but they are exceptions, Arron Gordan, etc. But the majority of kids will need all the help they can get. I think the HS coach should be helping kids get to the next level and if you cant do that in this generation, well, getting players and keeping players will be a challenge.

If the work a kid puts in is not exploited and promoted in the best way possible the end can result in being looked over. As I said in my post getting a scholarship is hard work for all involved and if a kid opts not to play AAU and focus on HS ball during the summer then what? On the LL starting five not one kid played AAU basketball the summer before their senior year, not one! I hounded the LL coach towards the end of the season to make calls and follow-up with coaches, send film, you name it I was on it. In the end it worked out without the help of an AAU coach, just the parent and the HS coach. I don't believe this was an exception but should be the norm.

Your son played AAU for Warriors coached by the University coach between his junior and senior year Not one LL player played AAU ball between junior and senior year?? Not sure it matters but fact he played on warriors and was the best player for the warriors!

 

[Renard Monroe]

I know during my coaching tenure, I will do everything I can to help any of my players and players I know at other schools or have coached against, achieve their dreams to play at the next level. I have already fielded 2 calls from college coaches regarding Bryce ( and there will be certainly more) and I am truly excited to work with him on and off the court to help him any way I can, play at the highest level for him at the college level. I have spoken to college coaches about Nathan Robinson on a number of occasions. I have known Nathan and his family for years through the Olympic Club and would do anything to help him achieve his dream of playing Div. 1 college basketball. I love the process of helping players (mine or otherwise) and am always happy to give positive recommendations to college coaches of players, I have been lucky to coach or have been lucky to have coached against. I also love going to their college games and supporting the players any way I can. I follow many of my players via their school websites, online streaming and stats online. Its a win-win-win situation. The player wins, I win as a coaching supporter and the college coach and program wins. And, the school that recruits my players keep calling for more players in the future! I am a very proud Papa, when any of my players are able to play at any level of college ball and fortunately I have had more than a few at every stop along my coaching career. I am quite excited about the prospect of a number of players playing beyond their HS careers on the current Riordan team and will do whatever I can (make phone calls, send video, spend extra time in the gym working on their game, watch video with them, etc.) for them to fulfill that desire.
Any HS coach that isn't doing that is missing a golden opportunity.

Best swishes,
Coach Forslund

Good to hear, good to know. There are some good coaches out there !

 

[drmarkppd]

Your son played AAU for Warriors coached by the University coach between his junior and senior year Not one LL player played AAU ball between junior and senior year?? Not sure it matters but fact he played on warriors and was the best player for the warriors!

lol you are correct but what I should have said none of them played in the typical viewing period. Nathan went to England instead. I think the team was talented and he was a player on that team I wouldnt say the best.