You have to take into account population density as well. I agree Odowd has to compete with Moreau to the south and St Marys to the north but that may not be as big as geographic area but population wise they have a big pool. Marin Catholic is losing a very small number of kids to city schools. Have you ever tried to commute across GG Bridge or drive 580 corridor in morning? Its a different setup than Brentwood to Concord. I get your point, DLS is only option for Contra Costa kids versus their are options for other private schools.
Clarifying De La Salle's Playoff Schedule
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You have to take into account population density as well. I agree Odowd has to compete with Moreau to the south and St Marys to the north but that may not be as big as geographic area but population wise they have a big pool. Marin Catholic is losing a very small number of kids to city schools. Have you ever tried to commute across GG Bridge or drive 580 corridor in morning? Its a different setup than Brentwood to Concord. I get your point, DLS is only option for Contra Costa kids versus their are options for other private schools.
I'm not sure that I agree with that. Lad is widely recognized as the architect of the most successful high school football program ever. They were an average high school team prior to his instituting a team approach and he then capitalized on the program's success over the years to where it is now. He's had a book and movie written about his work. I don't know how much more credit can be given the guy. If anything, Eidson hasn't gotten the credit he deserves. All Spartan backers know his work well, but most outsiders just know of Lad.
I doubt another coach would have been as successful as Lad in building that program up to what it is now, but I do think he hit the perfect storm on Winton and I doubt if he could have gotten to this current level of continued success and dominance at any other school in the Bay Area, public or private. And Lad is the man!
So 11 years besides a two year Bellarmine deal (besides Serra) and 25 years for a win.
A 40 mile radius thats unbelievable, If Casey Taylor of Del Oro had a 40 mile radius he could draw from Rocklin,Granite Bay,Oak Ridge,Folsom,Placer,Roseville and Whitney. They would have made a movie of Del Oro
All that recruiting area and their starting inside LB's are 5'6 and 5'7 with a 190 LB center.
Phoenix- As an alum, and assuming you are Catholic, what's your position on admitting 8th grade redshirts who have no parochial connections? Or sophomores transfers who have proven football pedigree, irrespective of the fact of the spotlight reducing applications?
This bogus excuse is easily defeated.
How many large private schools are in the Sacramento area? 1, Jesuit. Powerhouse? No.
How many decent private schools are in the Fresno area? 1, San Joaquin Memorial. Powerhouse? No.
How many decent private schools are in the Fresno area? 1, Bakersfield Christian. Powerhouse? No.
How many decent private schools are in the Salinas area? 1, Palma. Powerhouse? No, not really.
All of these programs have nearly an identical situation as DLS, yet none of them excel like does DLS.
Here's the deal- The 40 mile radius is a stupid premise because kids and families are not going to travel that far and you obviously have no idea what the DLS program is about. It's so much more than talent. Read "When the game stands tall" and talk to players who have gone through the program.
How far back do you have to go for that info. Serra plays them because Patrick played there. Honestly, the other teams want no part of DLS.
I know in Oak Groves heydey they wanted to schedule DLS, the problem was DLS usually went for bigger marquee matchups or parochial schools for their limited number of openings. Honestly the only schools these days in the CCS that have any business scheduling DLS are the privates.
Not winning but still electing to play the best!!!!!
And further what other SECTION team ELECTED to play more games AND how many other section teams TIED or WON more games with DLS. Count them!!!!
More than SJS
More than SS
More than CS
More than SDS
And even more than the forced play-offs with the SS section
More than any other SECTION, LEAGUE (or district) in the nation than, understandably of course, from their own section (or league)
So stop whining (bragging or whatever it is you're doing) in the face of the facts.
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Bogus ? Why don't you compare "apples to apples"
Palma - you say ? Salinas's population currently is 155,000. They couldn't even come close to supporting a 2nd private HS even if they wanted too. The fact they even were able Tie DLS 7 to 7 one season is incredible w/ how their area to draw players from is so incredibly less than DLS to choose or have enroll from.
DLS - the 40 mile Monopoly Radius w/ no other Private school for parents to send their kids to play competitive HS football. - Lets see how big of a Population DLS has to draw families from:
Concord 125,000
Antioch 107,000
Pittsburgh 305,000
Pleasant Hill 34,000
Matinez 37,000
Walnut Creek 65,000
Danville 43,000
Alamo 15,000
Lafayette 25,000
San Ramon 74,000
Dublin 43,000
Livermore 85,000
Pleasanton 74,000
Tracy 84,000
TOTAL POPULATION To Draw Players from = 1,116,000
The DLS area to draw from is 10 times larger than Palma's.
Now take Sacramento - They actually have at least 2 private schools who play competitive HS football. Jesuit and Christian Brothers. Christian Brothers in the 80's and 90's had kids go play at Santa Clara and St. Mary's college numerous times.
Sacramento's population is currently 479,000 - w/ 2 Private schools playing HS football.
Again - w/ just 2 private schools trying to get kids to come to their schools w/ a population of 480,000 is a heck of a lot tougher vs 1 school w/ a population pool of over 1,000,000 people.
And for your Fresno argument - Fresno Population 500,000. Again half the size of the DLS area to draw from. And their are other small private HS who play football in Fresno - Emanuel Christian - but, since they are Div 4 - I wont count them.
The DLS advantage in terms of the area and population to draw potential players from is tremendous over other Private and Public schools ant it is not even close.
Geesh, talk about cherry-picking. So, DLS gets all of the surrounding areas, but the schools I listed only gets the main city in which it's located?
Let's get a little more realistic...
Palma can get kids from the Monterey Peninsula, south Salinas Valley, Prunedale, and even Hollister in addition to Salinas. All told, that's a population of about 350,000.
San Joaquin Memorial can draw not just from Fresno, but Clovis and Madera. Total population of about 665,000.
You got really comical about Jesuit. That school can draw from tons of different cities such as Elk Grove, Rancho Cordova, Rosemont, Lincoln, Citrus Heights, or even Folsom or Davis. We're talking about 1.3 million. Christian Brothers is a D-III school. Care to consider the collection of D-III and D-IV schools like O'Dowd or Albany St. Mary's? Jesuit's enrollment is about the same as DLS's.
Furthermore, in the list you gave for DLS, keep in mind that Livermore isn't much further to Stockton (St. Mary's) as it is to Concord. Tracy? Much closer to Stockton. Martinez isn't all that far from Justin-Sienna.
Speaking of Stockton, St. Mary's draws from about 520,000, too.
Clearly finding your way around any produce department is not your forte......
But just for fun let's play your apples to oranges argument. Using your format let's take a closer look at your comparisons.
As you pointed out in your Sacramento example with ...."just 2 private schools trying to get kids to come to their schools w/ a population of 480,000 is a heck of a lot tougher vs 1 school w/ a population pool of over 1,000,000 people. "
Again using a similar format for "a population pool," for the Sacramento Area within not your 40 mile range but just a little over half that distance of say 21 miles and 12 cities rather than 14
Carmichael 61,761
West Sacramento 48,891
North Highlands 42,694
Rancho Cordova 67,911
Davis 66,205
Elk Grove 161,007
Citrus Heights 85,285
Orangevale 33,960
Folsom 72,884
Rocklin 60,252
Granite Bay 20,402
Roesville 118,788
Add your Sacramento population figure of 479,000
TOTAL POPULATION To Draw Players from = +1,327,000
"The DLS advantage in terms of the area and population to draw potential players from is tremendous over other Private and Public schools ant it is not even close."
Stay away from horse shoes and hand grenades if that is "not even close"
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I have no dog in the fight. Your facts proved that two teams elected to play them in over a decade- and one of them because an ex player is the head coach. The sections are adjacent to each other geographically so don't pound your chest on this one. Furthermore, look at the typical WCAL pre-season football opponents and it's almost as embarrassing as the SEC how week it normally is.
You really can't say the SFL teams are scheduling tough non-league opponents either, Del Oro this year and last being the exception. I think the SFL runs into similar problems as the WCAL, in that they tend to schedule teams in section, and the number of quality opponents available just isn't there. The WCAL will tend to schedule other parochial schools out-of-section, and in-section will usually try to schedule some of the top publics in the CCS (Oak Grove, Palo Alto, Los Gatos, Milpitas), and even then it's hard for the public schools in the CCS to maintain year-over-year strength.
Not trying to fuel the fire, but have had several discussions re: Bay area parochial vs. Sacramento parochial previously with guys that have coached and played in both.
In each instance, the prevailing opinion has been that the BA parochial has a much stronger academic gap than SA. With some exceptions, parents aren't shipping kids to parochial in either instance in hopes of getting that D1 full ride. BUT, if a kid wants to get a good education AND play a high level of football, then (I have been told) that parochial is the way to go in the BA.
In the SA, the academic gap isn't as glaring. Jesuit (as well as Christian Brothers, Capital Christian, Bradshaw Christian) all offer great sports and education. Ignoring the desire for a religious component, Granite Bay, DO, Woodcreek, Oak Ridge, Folsom, Vista Del Lago, Rocklin, etc. all offer very good educations (I'll leave it to someone else to verify the API scores) with well behaved student bodies with great facilities and community support.
Simplifying it quite a bit, I came away with the understanding that the biggest difference is that in the BA if you want a great education and sports, parochial is your choice. In the SA if you want a great education and sports AND an extra $16k/yr in your pocket, you go public.
In each instance, the prevailing opinion has been that the BA parochial has a much stronger academic gap than SA. With some exceptions, parents aren't shipping kids to parochial in either instance in hopes of getting that D1 full ride. BUT, if a kid wants to get a good education AND play a high level of football, then (I have been told) that parochial is the way to go in the BA.
In the SA, the academic gap isn't as glaring. Jesuit (as well as Christian Brothers, Capital Christian, Bradshaw Christian) all offer great sports and education. Ignoring the desire for a religious component, Granite Bay, DO, Woodcreek, Oak Ridge, Folsom, Vista Del Lago, Rocklin, etc. all offer very good educations (I'll leave it to someone else to verify the API scores) with well behaved student bodies with great facilities and community support.
Simplifying it quite a bit, I came away with the understanding that the biggest difference is that in the BA if you want a great education and sports, parochial is your choice. In the SA if you want a great education and sports AND an extra $16k/yr in your pocket, you go public.
Woah... are you serious? Looking at this year's WCAL non-league schedule, collectively the teams played 12 games against opponents that either won or tied for the respective league titles... and that's not even including a game against DLS! They won 9 of those games.
I know you're all about bashing the WCAL, but this is comical when you look at what the EBAL did this year. They only had 11 games against teams with opponents that finished with winning records. They only won 5 of those games.
The Bay has great public schools as does the Sac area, it's all relative to where you live. DLS gets a good amount of players from the Hwy 24 stretch (Campo, Miramonte, Acalanes, Las Lomas) and the 580/680 corridor (MV, SRV, Dougherty V, Foothill, Amador). Some of those schools, like DV, have a higher API score than DLS and the SRVUSD is recognized as one of the best large school districts in the country. If you live in Oakland/Hayward and go to Moreau or O'Dowd it's a different story
Self explanatory- one can argue the demographics, population, academic reps, etc and it goes round and around. Kind of like "wasn't there WMDs?" Conversely, I was curious what an alum (Phoenix 45) thinks about his school, often claiming "no influence," when it admits a K-8 public kid, who repeats 8th for athletic advantage reasons. Or sophomore transfers who demonstrate football skills as frosh elsewhere, then get admitted.
Ssshhhh! That's not supposed to be talked about, along with some kids that travel long distances to play sports. Its all 98 pound weaklings with no athletic prowess that get in via a blind process that get magically transformed into NFL players.
Anyone want to guess where Miramonte's leading receiver this year, Sutter Lindberg (1,084 yards and 10 TD's), played his first two years of ball...DLS
Or Antioch's stud soph LB Omari Harris? Was one of the freshmen on DLS' JV team last year.
People will talk about these "redshirts" or transfers and overlook the fact that DLS also loses good players.
Or Antioch's stud soph LB Omari Harris? Was one of the freshmen on DLS' JV team last year.
People will talk about these "redshirts" or transfers and overlook the fact that DLS also loses good players.
OK. Who on the DLS roster was an 8th grade redshirt? Who on varsity, starting or not, transferred to DLS as a sophomore?
You really don't want to go down the road of having him name names of HS kids. It is not a secret and nothing new. A couple of years ago, there were 4 kids from San Ramon on the team, and somehow all 4 of them were "redshirts" and 19 when they graduated. 1315 knew them prior to their repeat years and then saw them playing against younger kids when they got to HS. People at their HS may not know their background and they sure don't post that kind of thing on the HS website, but the locals who coached them as youths tend to remember these small details. May have just been a coincidence and only limited to kids from one small city that they draw from.
Agree names are not only not necessary but should not even be apart of the conversation. The information you provided should be enough for anybody who just has to know and wants to research for their own private information.
You're right this poster is one person at "their HS....who did not know their background" . Now that I am aware of it does it change my perception. Not really. Is this the only HS, the only time it has happened, was it somehow encouraged/directed by the coaching staff......definitely feel no way, no how. Don't think you will ever find a statement by me saying that DLS is perfect or some kind of athletic-academic Camelot. But it sure worked out well for my boy and that's good enough for me and the Mrs.
Do I think it is the way to go? (Holding back an 8th grader for athletic reasons....if that is indeed the case) Not my cup of tea for sure. But my kid, a '10 DLS graduate particiapted in club swimming and water polo from 10 years old up through HS and into college. During those years I saw a parents switch coaches faster than Fiat 500's change lanes during commuter hours. I saw parents/kids try all kind of extracurricular training methods,coaches and programs in hopes of getting their athlete a rung up on the competition. And I also saw a lot of unhappy athletes.
I know you are not a big DLS fan......no problem, that's what makes your posts interesting and worth seeking out; always take your criticisms/remarks about the Spartans to heart, for serious consideration......unlike your friend who seems to have an issue with the school?, the program? or its posters?.....just this side of being butthurt. But after 2.5K posts you must be doing something right . Keep up the good work
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Crete- I like your posts and am not "butt-hurt" as described. My boys enjoyed the challenge and competition. The high brow attitude of some compatriots, who claim the dedication, brotherhood, etc. are the basis of the success is old. Yes, a major component, but one that cannot stand on its own. One wasted no time and had no trouble with a condescending response. Faith, Leadership, Integrity. I have recognized, more than once, the hard work the players put in, the excellent coaching, et al. But when a non-FB alum mentioned on this board, "we have blind admissions, there's no way admissions knows who you are or your parents" "the Diocese culls the families" and a year later mentioned names (I will NOT) of some impact players who transferred in, I lost my faith in the integrity as totality. But I liken it to the private colleges two of mine went to. Admissions knows exactly who they are, who I am AND my finances through FAFSA. And they readily admit their admissions policies are selective. Res ipsa loquitur.
Private school admissions have never solely been merit based. Sure transcript and entrance exam scores play a big role, but sons of alumni, large donators/benefactors, Jr High within the diocese all factor in. One thing I haven't seen though is someone getting in based purely on athletic ability, if anything examples I've seen show that athletic ability really has no impact on whether or not someone gets admitted, and athletic ability has no impact on whether someone gets kicked out of school if they fail to meet the standards to stay enrolled.
Fair enough, my apologies. For those who marry into a large family there will be in laws and cousins that become part of life by default. The lucky ones figure how to navigate around the loud and all-knowing.
I am sure every school has its share of True Believers who push the borders. My wife and I still volunteer at the school football games for whatever personal reasons even though our son is long gone. In that capacity we regularly meet parents and fans of visiting teams. Most of whom we really enjoy talking about their school, their team, their coaches and especially their kids. The conversations reaffirm our faith in parents and their kids in this area. But there are always a few parents who seem condescending, who are making some major sacrifice just to show up Owen-Owens. No biggie we all have one, just don't have to act like one. Over the years of working the games I have noticed that attitude more prevalent in some of the 680 schools. Guess my point is that every school has its share of highbrow boosters.
Back at you for sending me to Wikipedia: Etiam capillus unus habet umbram.
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Interesting facts I read here. Since Pitt is DLS next opponent, I'd like to say that it's no wonder why DLS pick a lot of Pitt residents from the Youth football. Pitt has the biggest population in your CC list. I'm not joining in in your funny discussions but there was talk about despite not being winnable teams elect to play DLS if accepted by DLS. My Pitt pride's answer to that is the team got to earn the spot to play DLS. Pitt never elected to play DLS, they've always earned it by winning the right to a match with DLS. Speaking about character of the team ( despite all the stupid talk about Pitt discipline), Pitt and its program run by a former DLS player and coach says that much about the strong character embedded in Pitt team. Pitt always earns a berth for a chance to beat DLS and it still holds the title of the only NorCal team to beat DLS in 1991 and it was an NCS Championship game. Old folks I sit with in Pitt games are still tearful and passionate about that chapter in Pitt pride. I am sure the DLS veterans who watched that game and are still coming to DLS games felt honor and respect for That game. That honor and respect between these teams are shared by both teams and "real fans" mutually. I'm a younger generation but I share that mutual respect as the storied veterans do.
Of course "admissions" are not blind. I assume they meet the applicants and interview them.
What is blind is the awarding of financial assistance. That is a by-the-numbers process where the identity of the family seeking the assistance is unknown to those who make the decision.
Not quite sure what you are trying to allege here, none of that happens at DLS.
Admissions is completely separate, done "blind" by a third party; no names, pictures, etc... DLS takes great pains to ensure there is no "football recruiting". There is plenty of factual information about this around the internet, just get away from the forum BS... There has never been a validated case of recruiting at DLS, there have never been "8th grade redshirts".
Yes, these "pedigreed" kids want to go to DLS, and their parents do everything they can to do such, who wouldn't want the opportunity to play there? However this doesn't mean that DLS recruits or influences admissions. These kids have to apply just like everyone else and are chosen on their merits. Quite often these "pedigree" kids do not excel there. Just look at Joe Montana's sons: one was a 2nd string QB, the other 3rd string. Many of the kids playing now are sons or nephews of people I played with at DLS two decades ago, when we were just beginning to branch out. I am proud to see this.
It seems like everyone on these boards sees DLS as a school of nothing but athletes, but this is not IMG. The DLS campus looks like any other HS campus (expect for the decided lack of females and the kids are a little more humble)
I never had an admissions interview... but then again I had family at the school already. (he was not a football player)
Obv
Obviously not that well known...... I follow DLS every year. If there was any truth to this it would have been all over the different forums. No one ever gives DLS a "pass" to omit this.....
Sounds like another unsubstantiated allegation. I'm sure there were kids from San Ramon, there always are. There are frequently 19 y/o graduates, for whatever reason that is beyond the school's control. If a parent held a kid back (for whatever reason), or failed a grade, or just has an early/late birthday; it is likely safe to say every school has a few 19 y/o graduates. This does not mean the school did anything "fishy". Bring us facts where DLS is complicit before you spread rumors.
Obviously not that well known...... I follow DLS every year. If there was any truth to this it would have been all over the different forums. No one ever gives DLS a "pass" to omit this.....
Sounds like another unsubstantiated allegation. I'm sure there were kids from San Ramon, there always are. There are frequently 19 y/o graduates, for whatever reason that is beyond the school's control. If a parent held a kid back (for whatever reason), or failed a grade, or just has an early/late birthday; it is likely safe to say every school has a few 19 y/o graduates. This does not mean the school did anything "fishy". Bring us facts where DLS is complicit before you spread rumors.
I believe that Bellermine draws from a much larger demographic area. For a while in the '80s they were THE team to beat... The are still a strong team, often with much better athletes, but still haven't matched the success of DLS.....
Bellarmine never will match the success of DLS due to the fact they have to share the talent base with the rest of the WCAL, something DLS doesn't have to do.
Phoenix
If high schools were held to the "influence prior to attending" via the CIF regulations in NCS there'd be a LOT of lawyering up, similar to the SRV kid going to Mack. My school and dLS are not immune to such. Observer 22 is accurate in response to my post. It is substantiated. It's not a secret, just a hush hush some alumni stubbornly refuse to accept. Crete's witty (as least someone has a sense of humor here) response of casting a small shadow is partially true. The claim it does not exist is as he terms it, "True Believers," doesn't wash with the masses. As far as soph transfers, one of your brethren who posted above outed them on NCP, not me. Make no mistake, I was pretty bummed when a senior inter-section transfer attended our school, while living with his "sister in an apartment." The lack of integrity is seemingly now accepted as part of the "seek your greenest pasture" for parents.
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