I don’t get why Lowell a school of 2700 students and Colfax with 580 students play each other in D4? Why reward a mediocre D1 school and set up this match up? It wasn't a game but pisses me off that a once in a generation group of small town kids has to play a school that large. Colfax played insanely good defense against Ellie and shut her down even though Grace shot poorly and struggled defensively. The point guard for Colfax is so special. Everyone in the stands and coaches always talk about her after games. Just doesn’t stop defending
Colfax 55-27 over Lowell
- Thread starter NU84
- Start date
Lot of respect for Colfax. Clear favorite vs Lowell.
I honestly think based on the wins they had they probably should be D3. D4 and home all the way to state is favorable.
I honestly think based on the wins they had they probably should be D3. D4 and home all the way to state is favorable.
NU completely understand your frustration. But you should be very happy where you are. Colfax beat numerous teams in the D-3 bracket some by a lot. With their wins this year I have no idea why they are D-4. School size means nothing in the new system. You just beat a d-1 team by 20 not sure what there is to be frustrated about. Just because you have a lot of kids doesn’t mean you are a great team. Colfax has a great team and they are the number 1 seed for a reason.
I’m not frustrated with the result or the seeding. This team has outperformed their size, stature and the opponents ability all year and Colfax fans desperately want to see a State Championship for this amazing little school and special group of girls. I’m frustrated with the system that could have and potentially still has the ability with a student body of 3 or 4 times the size, with a full squad of 15 kids (Colfax has 8 players), and the advantage of D1 competition all year to ruin a once in a generation team’s chance at a state title. The system penalizes small public schools. With that said, we’ve played a tough preseason competition and hopefully we can beat these larger opponents and the system and accomplish something extraordinarily rare in a school’s history.
I agree, well said. I honestly think any school regardless of size that is not in sac or Bay Area for the most part is a huge accomplishment to make it to state these days. When you have millions of people to pick from you tend to have better teams. It is a real story when a small town team can make it far. Hopefully colfax can continue its run!!
I honestly think Colfax has a better shot this year with competitive equity than in D5 with Pinewood and Woodside Priory. That being said I am not a fan of competitive equity although it helped Aptos win a state volleyball champ this year but in D4 (division below their enrollment). There has to be a better system in general.
The system does not penalize small public schools any more than any other school. So should Colfax just be dropped into D5 to reward the special group of girls? What about the other teams with special groups of girls? Should they be moved up, despite lesser talent and credentials, so Colfax can win?
And don't forget that if it were enrollment based, Colfax would have to play Pinewood or St. Joseph Notre Dame to win the NorCal title. Or Cardinal Newman in Division IV. How would that work out?
I know it's hard, but try to see the bigger picture. The idea is to give every special group of girls a fair shot at going as far as their talent and hard work can take them. Only seven teams in the state playoffs will finish the year with a win, after all.
And don't forget that if it were enrollment based, Colfax would have to play Pinewood or St. Joseph Notre Dame to win the NorCal title. Or Cardinal Newman in Division IV. How would that work out?
I know it's hard, but try to see the bigger picture. The idea is to give every special group of girls a fair shot at going as far as their talent and hard work can take them. Only seven teams in the state playoffs will finish the year with a win, after all.
It seems that the Colfax rooters want a D4 and D5 "Public" school only division at the CIF state level so they can win a state title. But what about all the other schools who would like to qualify in just getting in a "Section level" post season game.
What makes today's Colfax team any more special than the previous Colfax teams below.
Colfax
1983 & 1984 Division 3 CIF state champions
1998 Division 4 CIF state runner-up
2019 Division 5 SJS champion
2018 Division 5 SJS champion
2006 Division 4 SJS runner-up
2004 Division 4 SJS champion
2003 Division 4 SJS runner-up
2002 Division 4 SJS champion
1998 Division 4 SJS champion
1997 Division 4 SJS runner-up
1992 Division 4 SJS champion
1989 Division 4 SJS champion
1988 Division 4 SJS champion
1987 Division 3 SJS champion
1984 Division 3 SJS champion
1983 Division 3 SJS champion
https://www.cifstate.org/sports/bas...CIF_State_Basketball_Records_through_2019.pdf
http://www.cifsjs.org/media/bkbgirlssjschampions.pdf
What makes today's Colfax team any more special than the previous Colfax teams below.
Colfax
1983 & 1984 Division 3 CIF state champions
1998 Division 4 CIF state runner-up
2019 Division 5 SJS champion
2018 Division 5 SJS champion
2006 Division 4 SJS runner-up
2004 Division 4 SJS champion
2003 Division 4 SJS runner-up
2002 Division 4 SJS champion
1998 Division 4 SJS champion
1997 Division 4 SJS runner-up
1992 Division 4 SJS champion
1989 Division 4 SJS champion
1988 Division 4 SJS champion
1987 Division 3 SJS champion
1984 Division 3 SJS champion
1983 Division 3 SJS champion
https://www.cifstate.org/sports/bas...CIF_State_Basketball_Records_through_2019.pdf
http://www.cifsjs.org/media/bkbgirlssjschampions.pdf
Special should be defined by going as far as you can go in the toughest possible terrain in front of you. Not coasting threw a division based on enrollment until you run into Pinewood in D5 and get socked in the mouth. Competitive Equity has the right idea and is trending in the right direction. Special shouldn't be defined by winning the "ultimate" prize, but by how much further you made it than before.
Ok--I see your point. Colfax is the #1 seed in the D4 CIF state tournament. All home games. They deserve to win the D4 tournament this year. This year is special. They play hard. They play and beat D1-D3 teams in non-conference games. They only have 500 students in a small rural town. It's a great story. Ok, they haven't won a state title since 1984, so they deserve one now because it's been a while. So playing D1 Lowell of S.F. in the first round and winning easily was not fair and a horrible competitive equity format.
There is a reason they made a film about Milan High in 1954 called Hoosiers. IT’S BECAUSE IT WAS A MIRACLE!!! I would just appreciate system that rewarded schools for having an incredible year by allowing them to compete with similar sized schools in the state. If we lose to Argonaut, Pinewood or Woodside Priory, then we competed on equal terms and just lost to a better team. All that said, we’re set up nicely to make despite the system and I can’t wait for Thursday. Thanks guys for all your input
In retrospect- I don't see what was wrong with the system based on enrollment that was active some ten years ago. I remember when undefeateds SHC played SMS for the NorCal D3 title in 2008. The winner SHC ended up with the mythical national championship. It was pretty much accepted that they were the best teams in the state even though they were playing in D3. There were years after when the best teams were even in D4.
The problems began when they started tweaking the system via moving teams up due to past successes and then taking it one step farther via creating open. They implemented open before they really had worked out a real viable process and the problems they are having now are basically caused trying to fix past mistakes.
Except for the Open Champion, what we are stuck with now are purely paper State Championships based on year to year arbitrary scenarios. Hey if it is that important to win a state championship then they can just increase the categories and make a whole lot of teams happy. We could have 7 divisions in three different categories. One for public schools based on enrollment. One for charter schools based on enrollment and another for private schools based on enrollment factored in with the cost of tuition. That would give 21 schools State Championship banners to hang in their gyms.
For that matter why not create more divisions based on the school's academic ratings as well. More divisions equal more state championships banners school could hang.
The problems began when they started tweaking the system via moving teams up due to past successes and then taking it one step farther via creating open. They implemented open before they really had worked out a real viable process and the problems they are having now are basically caused trying to fix past mistakes.
Except for the Open Champion, what we are stuck with now are purely paper State Championships based on year to year arbitrary scenarios. Hey if it is that important to win a state championship then they can just increase the categories and make a whole lot of teams happy. We could have 7 divisions in three different categories. One for public schools based on enrollment. One for charter schools based on enrollment and another for private schools based on enrollment factored in with the cost of tuition. That would give 21 schools State Championship banners to hang in their gyms.
For that matter why not create more divisions based on the school's academic ratings as well. More divisions equal more state championships banners school could hang.
Don't encourage them. I think California went from 0 to 47 state champions in football in about 5 years. There are so many divisions you can't keep them all straight.
I'd be okay going back to straight enrollment, but I'm also okay with setting up some type of matrix that gives automatic bumps to teams that make NorCal final, or something similar.
What will never make sense to me is having public schools with 2700 students playing public schools with less than 300 students.
You'll never convince me that when 2 D4 teams play each other for a section championship, the team that wins should be "rewarded" with a 9 seed in D4, while the losing team gets the #1 seed in D5 and home court all the way to the state championship. It just makes no sense to me.
have you ever seen the student body at Lowell? 2599 of them cannot even chew gum and dribble a basketball at the same time... but they can count and play fornite with the best of them... they will be doctors, engineers and scientist well before they would even imagine playing a sport... 2700 from say sac or stockton is not the same as in the city
Yeah, I've watched them win the last 2 D5 girls soccer NorCal championships, playing against schools with 400 students. They're the #1 seed again this year and won their first game yesterday, 4-0, against a school with 442 students. It's mind boggling.
Same deal in football. The SF "section" champ gets dumped all the way down to the lowest CIF level and competes against tiny Pissant Prep from Goleta for the W. Nice.
The point of the system is to make every division competitive. No more free championships. Yes the seeds are random but nobody will be walking to the finish line. Every demographic of team could have a valid gripe. This system will lessen the possibility that the same schools win it every year because they found a sweet spot.
Well Colfax fans HMB is a true D4 school and headed your way. See ya Thursday
Another note on enrollment-based divisions, to add to Pinewood (D5), St. Joe's (D5 and D4 (when they couldn't manipulate the enrollment to get just below the D5 line), Cardinal Newman (D4) and Bishop O'Dowd (D3).
One year, the Southern Section shifted its enrollment numbers for division qualification to balance out the number of schools in each division. So Mater Dei rolled into Sacramento to play for Division II title, with 2,200 students in a school that is noted for "attracting" elite athletes.
Maybe competitive equity is a bad system, but enrollment is much worse.
One year, the Southern Section shifted its enrollment numbers for division qualification to balance out the number of schools in each division. So Mater Dei rolled into Sacramento to play for Division II title, with 2,200 students in a school that is noted for "attracting" elite athletes.
Maybe competitive equity is a bad system, but enrollment is much worse.
Well it’s a 1 seed vs an 8 seed & we beat Lowell by 5 when you guys hammered them by 28 not to mention the 3 hour commute & playing on the road. Not making excuses just stating the facts. Looking forward to the competition and TJ’s road house. See ya tomorrow.
I think that in the future you can sign up for the West Coast Jamboree and request to be placed in a bracket with only small schools that look to have once in a generation season. I read they try to accommodate coach’s requests.
As for playing Pinewood or Woodside Priory and competing on equal terms the Colonel might not agree.
Your esteemed Colonel is predictable and unflinching in such sensitive competitive matters: When discussing the public vs. private/parochials, it's apples and oranges. They are utterly different prep creatures. Therefore, there is no totally fair CIF state tourney arrangement without separating the two entities entirely. That won't happen. But the equity arrangement does seek to address that gross disparity.
When you support someone or a team it is always "We". At least that's how it feels. Good luck to the girls!
