Division III: Campolindo vs. Rosary Academy

[mkbgdns]

And I have always said "to my knowledge" Carondelet hasn't done anything special.

so it's about you, not Carondelet. try "hasn't met my expectations" rather than "hasn't done anything special". by owning it, you give readers a chance to decide whether the problem is Carondelet, or your knowledge/expectations. it's not p.c. to call out a massively stoopid negative generalization about 50 years of a successful program. it's common sense. if your daughter's teammates and classmates heard that statement, she'd be mortified. with good reason.

and incidentally, you did not qualify your blanket putdown of Clet's last 50 years. you added that they had one state championship to your knowledge. try reading your own posts.

 

[mkbgdns]

But I agree with you that Carondelet has not been doing anything special in all of its 50 years.

and you're "agreeing" with someone who didn't say that. you did.

 

[DonniePeckerwood]

A year away? Perhaps. I thought they were capable of playing much better which could have put them in position to make it a much better game. And if they would have shot the ball a bit better they may have been in a closer position to win.

I think Campolindo like most every other team knows opportunities don't always present themselves because so many things need to come together to make it to a state championship game. And they intended to seize the moment. I've always said you can't guarantee a performance. Because you can't guarantee your shots will be on from game to game. That's why you need to improve all players and all areas of your team.

I agree Campo should be a very capable and confident team next season.

Great year this year, and they gave it their all.... but next year is Campo's year. Watch out for them!

 

[Paytc]

Play the game to learn, play the game to have fun, play the game to enjoy your friends and mentors ...

Being the best you can be takes an incredible effort and focus, and I'm not sure that devoting all of your energy to girls' high school basketball is a reasonable allocation of energy. I know I could have been a better basketball coach if I had not written about science fiction, written about music, acted in plays, read philosophy, taken walks with my wife, paid attention to politics, followed developments in science, and so on.

There's a saying that it takes a certain amount of effort to get 90% of your potential -- and it takes just as much effort to get from 90% to 95%, and that same effort again to get to 98%.

Is achievement in one area worth that much devotion, whether it be basketball or making money or creating art or studying ancient history? For me, the answer has always been no, but of course others choose differently -- and it must be said that the great achievers, those who pushed humanity forward, are the ones who had that laser focus.

Clay thanks for your opinion, once again I'll share mine........

I guess it depends on the amount of effort it takes the individual since everyone is blessed differently. Here is where I'm coming from just to make it a bit clearer. I thought Margaret Gartner did a fantastic job year in and year out. She is still a very good coach to this day. I think she helped build the solid program and reputation that still lives on under Elgin Leslie. Elgin has done a good job maintaining about the same level in terms of championship success and achievement. From me there are no complaints there. But should there be no desire to achieve more than 30 to 40 point league blow outs game after game? Or to push the bar up? What was done in the past was taking it to that level. How about doing something special and pushing to an even higher level?

As far as I know ( and I could be wrong) the school only has 1 state championship in 50 years. Is it not ok to even think it is possible to set and reach higher goals which are obviously within reach? Is it not ok to say... 1 in 50 years beats none in 50 years. But how about shooting to capture at least 2 state championships in the next 50 years. I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks 1 championship in 50 years is ok. So no one should have a problem with me saying at least 2 state championships should be the goal for the next 50 years. And the only way that will be possible is to get good enough to beat non league teams and occasionally upset teams that are as good or better than Carondelet is. What in the world could be wrong with wanting to do that? Or wanting to do better?

 

[jaymel911]

I guess it depends on the amount of effort it takes the individual since everyone is blessed differently. Here is where I'm coming from just to make it a bit clearer. I thought Margaret Gartner did a fantastic job year in and year out. I think she helped build the solid program and reputation that still lives on under Elgin Leslie. Elgin has maintained about the same level in terms of championship success and achievement. From me there are no complaints there. But should there be no desire to achieve more than 30 to 40 game league blow outs game after game?

As far as I know ( and I could be wrong) the school only has 1 state championship in 50 years. Is it not ok to even think it is possible to set and reach higher goals which are obviously within reach? Is it not ok to say 1 in 50 years beats none in 50 years. But how about shooting to capture at least 2 state championships in the next 50 years. I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks 1 championship in 50 years is ok. So no one should have a problem with me saying at least 2 state championships should be the goal for the next 50 years. And the only way that will be possible is to get good enough to beat non league teams and occasionally upset teams that are as good or better than Carondelet is. What in the world could be wrong with wanting to do better?

As critical as I have been, without the open division they are competing for three or four state championships.

 

[Paytc]

As critical as I have been, without the open division they are competing for three or four state championships.

And I can agree with that. But since they are being thrown into the open and they are good enough to be there, IMO they are good enough to set higher goals, and higher expectations. And whats wrong with raising the expectations? And what's wrong with aiming for more?

 

[Paytc]

so it's about you, not Carondelet. try "hasn't met my expectations" rather than "hasn't done anything special". by owning it, you give readers a chance to decide whether the problem is Carondelet, or your knowledge/expectations. it's not p.c. to call out a massively stoopid negative generalization about 50 years of a successful program. it's common sense. if your daughter's teammates and classmates heard that statement, she'd be mortified. with good reason.

and incidentally, you did not qualify your blanket putdown of Clet's last 50 years. you added that they had one state championship to your knowledge. try reading your own posts.

Why don't you and a few others get certified as P.C. POLICE because you do a fine job searching for things that aren't there and making a big deal out of things that are small. I never said Carondelet had any problems. And I never said they hadn't accomplished anything. I could have very well said " they haven't met my expectations " because that is true. But I've talked to many others who have felt the same as I have. They too believe Carondelet is capable of now achieving more. Carondelet is a wonderful school. And Margaret passed down a reputable program and Elgin has maintained it , but you don't stop there. It's about working towards making it even better and more successful. It's seems as though they have hit a brick wall. I said they could achieve more by changing the selfish culture, aiming higher, and having higher expectations, among a few other improvements. That is by no means totally discrediting the accomplishments that have been made. It's aiming higher. It's just encouraging more. And not being satisfied with just the status quo.

 

[Paytc]

Name one BIG game in 10 years that Carondelet has WON when they were clear underdogs? I don't count SMS mid season with Decosta hobbled, Murray out and the ship taking massive amounts of water. If SMS would have been the #7 seed how bad would they have beaten Carondelet?

Actually Carondelet beat a very good SMS team at St. Marys and Decosta was very healthy as she scored over 30 points and was a major problem. Murray also warmed up as an intimidation tactic but she didn't play. I personally don't give much to teams that beat teams that they are clearly better than. But since SMS with the very same players Carondelet beat were a serious force in the Nike TOC playing in the highest level just a couple weeks before Carondelet played them I considered that an upset.

Not sure how Carondelet and SMS game would have turned out if SMS were the 7th seed because since they didn't play it's speculation. I think with a healthy Murry back, I would have given the edge to SMS. But any good team can upset or beat any other good team so who knows.

 

[letsski]

Clay thanks for your opinion, once again I'll share mine........

I guess it depends on the amount of effort it takes the individual since everyone is blessed differently. Here is where I'm coming from just to make it a bit clearer. I thought Margaret Gartner did a fantastic job year in and year out. She is still a very good coach to this day. I think she helped build the solid program and reputation that still lives on under Elgin Leslie. Elgin has done a good job maintaining about the same level in terms of championship success and achievement. From me there are no complaints there. But should there be no desire to achieve more than 30 to 40 point league blow outs game after game? Or to push the bar up? What was done in the past was taking it to that level. How about doing something special and pushing to an even higher level?

As far as I know ( and I could be wrong) the school only has 1 state championship in 50 years. Is it not ok to even think it is possible to set and reach higher goals which are obviously within reach? Is it not ok to say... 1 in 50 years beats none in 50 years. But how about shooting to capture at least 2 state championships in the next 50 years. I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks 1 championship in 50 years is ok. So no one should have a problem with me saying at least 2 state championships should be the goal for the next 50 years. And the only way that will be possible is to get good enough to beat non league teams and occasionally upset teams that are as good or better than Carondelet is. What in the world could be wrong with wanting to do that or wanting to do better?

This is what I find confusing. You write as if the coach doesn't aspire to win Championships. What special insight do you have that compels you to state that they don't want to win? Are they taking the summer off? Does the coach discourage player development? Has he stated their only goal is to win league? Are you basing your statements by the product on the floor?, i.e. "well they don't move the ball well nor shoot very well so obviously the coach doesn't want to win."

 

[OnBall8]

He's a parent and an ex rec league coach who knows everything.. but its "just his opinion" when he's wrong, so he's never wrong.. and just because he's "not PC" (which he is) means that we are the PC police to disagree with his often asinine comments..

 

[jaymel911]

Everyone aspires to win just like I wish I could climb to the top of the highest mountain. My assumption is Paytc is implying that because success at Carondelet is generally defined as league and section titles that the attention to detail is not quite there to take the team to the highest point on the mountain. Clay put it best that 90% of your results are based on a certain amount of effort and the remaining 10% requires 200% more effort. Who is willing to put forth that additional effort for a return that is not guaranteed?

 

[Paytc]

This is what I find confusing. You write as if the coach doesn't aspire to win Championships. What special insight do you have that compels you to state that they don't want to win? Are they taking the summer off? Does the coach discourage player development? Has he stated their only goal is to win league? Are you basing your statements by the product on the floor?, i.e. "well they don't move the ball well nor shoot very well so obviously the coach doesn't want to win."

Thank all those who have shared your opinions on this message board as that is what it is here for. Just know that not always will people view things the same way especially if they come from different cultures or backgrounds, have limited knowledge around the topic, or have had different experiences. Like there is beauty in diversity of color, race, beliefs, and cultures, there is beauty in diversity of opinions. Thank you to all who continue to share yours and invite others to continue to share theirs. Thank you even more so for the mature adults who respond without name calling and stooping to childish levels. As we all know no one is right all the time. But everyone is right in sharing their opinion, as they see it, even if it is not popular. At least until the government decides to take those liberties away from some if not all citizens.

I for one have never said anything with the intent to harm or belittle anyone. And I have just expressed things in the manner I felt added value and diversity to the topics and concerned that have been shared collectively. Do I or anyone always express themselves in a manner that comes out or is taken correctly? No. And like everyone else, I have had those who have fully agreed with me, and those who have not agreed with me. And I have thick enough skin to accept the social media driven world we all live in now that at many times goes against my opinion, or what is so call Politically correct. I welcome those who dis agree with me. But I don't lose sleep in the day or night worrying about pleasing everyone because I know that is not realistic.

My sincere apology for any comments in the past, present, or future that may have come out or been taken the wrong way. Trust me no harm is ever intended.


Congratulations to all those who have set goals for themselves and worked hard to reach them without compromise to the opinion of those who thought you were working too hard or not hard enough.

If it is in your heart keep reaching for more. Don't be satisfied unless you are satisfied. If you are not, feel free to express it, or work at aiming higher, and positively encouraging others, if you have faith in the expectations you feel within to reach desired plateaus.

 

[OnBall8]

you still didnt answer letsski's question

 

[ClayK]

I am always wary of setting goals, especially in sports where so much is out of your control. Injuries, bad luck, one of those nights, etc. ... and all of a sudden a season that was actually pretty good given the circumstances seems like a failure because the original goal was set too high. It's better just to play it out, I feel, and judge the year after it's done and not artificially create expectations beforehand.

And then I decided to waste some time and look at every record in MaxPreps for Carondelet, which goes back to 2005. In the eight years prior to the Open, Carondelet played in the NorCal title game six times and won four -- and then lost in the state title game those four times. Since the Open, Carondelet has played at that level every year and has lost twice to SMS and once to Miramonte in games that were either a tossup or Carondelet was not favored. The worst was a loss to Presentation in 2015, and this year of course the one-point loss to Cardinal Newman.

Overall, the record is pretty impressive, with Margaret or Elgin, and not winning the Open is hardly a disgrace. Granted, the Presentation loss was a bad one, but otherwise that's a pretty solid history -- and in fact, only a very few schools in the country can match it.

 

[Paytc]

I am always wary of setting goals, especially in sports where so much is out of your control. Injuries, bad luck, one of those nights, etc. ... and all of a sudden a season that was actually pretty good given the circumstances seems like a failure because the original goal was set too high. It's better just to play it out, I feel, and judge the year after it's done and not artificially create expectations beforehand.

And then I decided to waste some time and look at every record in MaxPreps for Carondelet, which goes back to 2005. In the eight years prior to the Open, Carondelet played in the NorCal title game six times and won four -- and then lost in the state title game those four times. Since the Open, Carondelet has played at that level every year and has lost twice to SMS and once to Miramonte in games that were either a tossup or Carondelet was not favored. The worst was a loss to Presentation in 2015, and this year of course the one-point loss to Cardinal Newman.

Overall, the record is pretty impressive, with Margaret or Elgin, and not winning the Open is hardly a disgrace. Granted, the Presentation loss was a bad one, but otherwise that's a pretty solid history -- and in fact, only a very few schools in the country can match it.

Clay,

Thanks for sharing your well informed and kind opinion. Great points !

That's the beauty in opinions. And that's the beauty in individuals. Some are like Jordan and Kobe while others like Dwight Howard. I don't think any of them should go to prison for having a different set of work ethics, standards,desires, goals, or expectations.

I agree many schools envy the success Carondelet has had and continues to have. And it is witnessed by how hard league opponents battle them. Often losing their composure and presenting bad sportsmanship like attitudes. What Carondelet has accomplished has set a bar and standard of expectation. Carondelet can feel good about that standard and strive to maintain it, or strive to elevate it. The free world in which we live in will have those who will be satisfied with the status quo, and others who will never be satisfied. And of course some will be in between the two extremes. Again I don't think either desires or standards are unreasonable. I think teams like Mitty, SMS, Mater Dei,CW, De La Salle, Chino Hills,ESP,Pinewood, Odowd, and others that continue to aim at the highest plateau are inspiring. Others may think it is unrealistic or unnecessary to aim that high. MJ,Kobe, UConn, and all who set max standards and high bars may not seem close to reasonable to many. Again that kind of display may inspire and motivate some others. Because there are others who see the higher levels and appreciate it because it shows what is possible. But let me qualify my comment as just another one of my opinions. Which I'm sure some will agree with, while others either won't agree with it, or not agree with the way I phrase it.

 

[mkbgdns]

And I have thick enough skin to accept the social media driven world we all live in now that at many times goes against my opinion, or what is so call Politically correct.

poor baby. responsible for what he writes. martyrdom application available at the Vatican.

or...

try this. repeat after me: "I don't know the girls, or the non-league opponents, of Carondelet 20 years ago. or 30 years ago. or 40 years ago. or 50 years ago."

see? that wasn't so hard. called Humility. useful addition to w.a.w.c. (Win Any Way Correctness)

 

[Paytc]

poor baby. responsible for what he writes. martyrdom application available at the Vatican.

or...

try this. repeat after me: "I don't know the girls, or the non-league opponents, of Carondelet 20 years ago. or 30 years ago. or 40 years ago. or 50 years ago."

see? that wasn't so hard. called Humility. useful addition to w.a.w.c. (Win Any Way Correctness)

Never said I was perfect. Please except my apology if I have or ever do offend. If there is anything that may have come out, or been taken wrong, it would be my expression of the 50 years. I did say "to my knowledge". And it wasn't to knock anyone or anything in the past. It was to say it is possible to do more. I am sure it was not easy to set the standards that are presently in place. And I have always appreciated those standards and the work that went in to put them in place. I don't know much before her but, i'm a Big Margaret fan ! I am sure that tradition and the program that she helped build was one of the things that motivated our decision to attend the school, among many others. But I personally have experienced things I have appreciated and a few things I thought needed to not be overlooked. In my years I have seen far more things changed for the better by those who point out areas that could improve than those who just look the other way. And I am sure my opinions and my views are not just my own because I have spoken to many others with similar views. They may not be as quick to express them or as openly free to put it out there.

 

[mkbgdns]

it wasn't to knock anyone or anything in the past.

it did. girls (now older than you are) and coaches (possibly passed) from as far back as the 60s. you keep dodging an apology or retraction. you DID insult several generations of kids. if it wasn't a "knock", then consider your definition of "special". a girl playing basketball in the 60's didn't get an automatic spot on the prom royal court. you might not know "special" if it bit you in the behind.

Warning: Opinion! given your issues with the current regime, your insult can most charitably be seen as a tantrum. you keep looking for cover under "to my knowledge" (not part of the insult) or "opinion" (about something of which you know nothing, more properly called an expression of ignorance). man up.

 

[Paytc]

it did. girls (now older than you are) and coaches (possibly passed) from as far back as the 60s. you keep dodging an apology. you DID insult several generations of kids. if it wasn't a "knock", then consider your definition of "special". a girl playing basketball in the 60's didn't get an automatic spot on the prom royal court. you might not know "special" if it bit you in the behind.

Warning: Opinion! given your issues with the current regime, your insult can most charitably be seen as a tantrum.

That is the way you took it. Because you wanted to take it that way. There is no further apology than the one i made because I made clear what my intentions were. And it was more of a confirmation of intent, than an apology. Because no insult, disrespect, or harm was intended. Fortunately this is not ESPN, CNN, FOX, or any of the same in that conglomerate of control mass media. I know you wish it was so that my voice could be easily silenced,edited, cut and pasted, cut off, or drowned out. And things could be made to slant my intentions toward the sinister without recourse. All for ratings, money, dislike, or at times something much more sinister. All because someone doesn't completely conform to a belief someone in a power position may want. A subjective statement (which it was) can be taken anyway you choose to take it. I made clear what my intentions were. So you and everyone else can take it or leave it. That is your choice. I think we can respectfully agree to disagree and move on. Have a wonderful day !

Now back to the original topic...... Campo just didn't play their best game. And they shot the ball very poorly. Congratulations to Rosary !

 

[jaymel911]

I am always wary of setting goals, especially in sports where so much is out of your control. Injuries, bad luck, one of those nights, etc. ... and all of a sudden a season that was actually pretty good given the circumstances seems like a failure because the original goal was set too high. It's better just to play it out, I feel, and judge the year after it's done and not artificially create expectations beforehand.

And then I decided to waste some time and look at every record in MaxPreps for Carondelet, which goes back to 2005. In the eight years prior to the Open, Carondelet played in the NorCal title game six times and won four -- and then lost in the state title game those four times. Since the Open, Carondelet has played at that level every year and has lost twice to SMS and once to Miramonte in games that were either a tossup or Carondelet was not favored. The worst was a loss to Presentation in 2015, and this year of course the one-point loss to Cardinal Newman.

Overall, the record is pretty impressive, with Margaret or Elgin, and not winning the Open is hardly a disgrace. Granted, the Presentation loss was a bad one, but otherwise that's a pretty solid history -- and in fact, only a very few schools in the country can match it.

When you need to waste time again, look at back and let me know when they upset a team in a big game. When were they underdogs in the post season, on the road and they actually won the game. When you say "toss up" were they at home or on the road? Big difference.

Cardinal Newman pulled off back to back road upsets in big open division games. Go back 10-15 even 20 years and see if Carondelet has matched what CN did in 7 days.

 

[OnBall8]

you keep looking for cover under "to my knowledge" (not part of the insult) or "opinion" (about something of which you know nothing, more properly called an expression of ignorance). man up.

god im glad im not the only one...

 

[mkbgdns]

I know you wish it was so that my voice could be easily silenced, or drowned out.

again, see Vatican for martyrdom application.

I DON'T CARE about most of what you say, and you say more than anyone on this board. you can keep droning on, just don't insult kids or coaches. that matters to me.

to quote Onball8, you still didn't answer letsski's question. you prefer to hold forth on how you are a paradigm of truth, justice, and the american way.

c'mon down off your pulpit. ESPN, CNN, and FOX have all determined the audience for our back-and-forth has dwindled to 2. the water's fine down here. what's your investment in characterizing Carondelet's 50 year history as "not been doing anything special"? yeah, it's your opinion, but why do you feel that way? you say you intended no insult, but what did you intend when you wrote that? it's OK, nobody else is listening...

 

[mkbgdns]

It was to say it is possible to do more.

ok, found it. but you understand how it could be seen as demeaning to single out a group for this judgment. after all, couldn't you say in that sense that both you and I have not done anything special? as well as any everyone else on the planet? your choice of words matters. so why single out the Carondelet program for this judgment which applies to everyone?

 

[CamAca]

ok, found it. but you understand how it could be seen as demeaning to single out a group for this judgment. after all, couldn't you say in that sense that both you and I have not done anything special? as well as any everyone else on the planet? your choice of words matters. so why single out the Carondelet program for this judgment which applies to everyone? really dude, this is me asking, you don't have to preach to the rest of your audience.

I
I am guessing all he really meant to say was that he was frustrated with Carondelet because he never felt they were being properly taught/coached up to the ability of the players they had on this particular team and never really liked the way the group played ball much of the time especially in the big games. Frustrated that there was too much one on one ball, lack of good ball movement etc. because players would rather get their stats and look good then play good bball and they were never coached out of that all year long...and instead he parlayed that into a large rather long winded seqment about an underachieving program. He might PC it too death and skirt the direct issue but I bet getting rid of Elgin and getting somebody of Doc, Kelly or Sue's ability would have made all of those posts nonexistent. I know there have been several parents over the past couple of years in particular that also felt that way..justified or not.

 

[mkbgdns]

so let's leave the kids from the (45?) years before this out of it, and it's done.

 

[CamAca]

so let's leave the kids from the (45?) years before this out of it, and it's done.

Amen!

 

[jaymel911]

I missed something in this thread

 

[Scoutus32]

I am always wary of setting goals, especially in sports where so much is out of your control. Injuries, bad luck, one of those nights, etc. ... and all of a sudden a season that was actually pretty good given the circumstances seems like a failure because the original goal was set too high. It's better just to play it out, I feel, and judge the year after it's done and not artificially create expectations beforehand.

And then I decided to waste some time and look at every record in MaxPreps for Carondelet, which goes back to 2005. In the eight years prior to the Open, Carondelet played in the NorCal title game six times and won four -- and then lost in the state title game those four times. Since the Open, Carondelet has played at that level every year and has lost twice to SMS and once to Miramonte in games that were either a tossup or Carondelet was not favored. The worst was a loss to Presentation in 2015, and this year of course the one-point loss to Cardinal Newman.

Overall, the record is pretty impressive, with Margaret or Elgin, and not winning the Open is hardly a disgrace. Granted, the Presentation loss was a bad one, but otherwise that's a pretty solid history -- and in fact, only a very few schools in the country can match it.

Clay,

The reality is with the talent, depth, and funding of a private school deep in the heart of arguably the most talent rich 30 mile radius in all of northern ca the expectation should not be less than at the top of the open division year in and year out. Elgin is a nice man, but good god is he unorganized and lacks many of the necessary characteristics needed to take that program to the next level (think Mater Dei). When he was at Campo it was a mess. Anyone can win with the talent at Carondelet. As Pay says maybe they are content with what they have. Sky is the limit with the right coach.

 

[ClayK]

There are legitimate points on all sides of this argument, which essentially comes down to whether Carondelet has met, matched or exceeded expectations recently and/or in its history.

So first, though, the crux of the discussion is the expectations. On the one hand, there are those who say Carondelet is the only full-service Catholic girls' high school in a large geographic area that contains many very talented basketball players, and as such has a major inherent advantage over other public and private (it's cheaper) high schools -- assuming of course that it recruits those players in one manner or another.

On the other, there are those who compare Carondelet's record to other public and private high schools in the area and believe that the level of success is impressive.

(This kind of discussion is why I think it's important to work from the top down in any enterprise in terms of what you're setting out to do -- and to communicate the "mission statement," if you will, to everyone. The overall philosophy of an organization should be thought out, discussed and made clear so that there's minimal confusion, and those who disagree can make a conscious choice to opt out or stick around. For example, on my fifth grade team this spring, the first thing I said was "This is a developmental team and everyone will play equal amount of minutes" -- and that gave everyone involved a chance to decide if they wanted their money back.)

I think the issue at Carondelet is that within the school there's no clear statement of what the girls' basketball team should be. Should it be a successful high school program that plays at a high level? If so, then all is well. Should it be an elite high school program that plays for and wins state championships on a regular basis? If so, there's room for improvement, and naturally that comes back to the person in charge.

Then again, who is in charge? The head of school? The AD? Elgin? The disgruntled parents?

To me, the head of school should make it clear to all involved whether Carondelet is doing as well as the school expects, and if so, the unhappy parents need to either transfer or accept reality. Or if the head of school wants the team to be better, then that needs to be made clear as well.

For me, the program is fine as it is. This is high school sports, after all.

 

[Paytc]

There are legitimate points on all sides of this argument, which essentially comes down to whether Carondelet has met, matched or exceeded expectations recently and/or in its history.

So first, though, the crux of the discussion is the expectations. On the one hand, there are those who say Carondelet is the only full-service Catholic girls' high school in a large geographic area that contains many very talented basketball players, and as such has a major inherent advantage over other public and private (it's cheaper) high schools -- assuming of course that it recruits those players in one manner or another.

On the other, there are those who compare Carondelet's record to other public and private high schools in the area and believe that the level of success is impressive.

(This kind of discussion is why I think it's important to work from the top down in any enterprise in terms of what you're setting out to do -- and to communicate the "mission statement," if you will, to everyone. The overall philosophy of an organization should be thought out, discussed and made clear so that there's minimal confusion, and those who disagree can make a conscious choice to opt out or stick around. For example, on my fifth grade team this spring, the first thing I said was "This is a developmental team and everyone will play equal amount of minutes" -- and that gave everyone involved a chance to decide if they wanted their money back.)

I think the issue at Carondelet is that within the school there's no clear statement of what the girls' basketball team should be. Should it be a successful high school program that plays at a high level? If so, then all is well. Should it be an elite high school program that plays for and wins state championships on a regular basis? If so, there's room for improvement, and naturally that comes back to the person in charge.

Then again, who is in charge? The head of school? The AD? Elgin? The disgruntled parents?

To me, the head of school should make it clear to all involved whether Carondelet is doing as well as the school expects, and if so, the unhappy parents need to either transfer or accept reality. Or if the head of school wants the team to be better, then that needs to be made clear as well.

For me, the program is fine as it is. This is high school sports, after all.

Reasonable points. I personally am far from disgruntle. And I am not speaking for others who may or may not be. I only point that out if and when those on the outside bring what I feel are unjust attacks against reasonable observations IMO. I have only been seeing the obvious and encouraging the team to take the next step. That is just my personality when I am around any office, group, team, gathering, etc.... I encourage progress and improvement. I know things don't just happen by themselves. Of course as I have been saying it is up to the school to determine the direction of it's basketball program. And they appear satisfied with league and section championships. At this point all you can do is positively encourage the children in the program to do the very best they can do under the circumstances. One very good point you made is parents and children can decide to come to be a part of the program or not, based on the desires and expectations, they have coming in. I think that has been and will continue to take place.

But I also am not surprised in your response.(Clay) after all, it wouldn't benefit Miramonte if Carondelet were to become a true powerhouse. Which depending on one's standards they may or may not have become already. Remember different individuals and different schools set different standards, goals, and expectations. I think Elgin and Carondelet are on the doorstep, and kind of at the cross roads, to taking the program in one of two directions. I don't think it will remain the same much longer, but I could be wrong. My guess is it will either take that next step, or start to decline, as interest and talent begins to weigh all the pros and cons.

Our experience at Carondelet overall has been a pretty good experience. But that is taking everything not just the sports programs into account. The basketball program and coach Leslie's job basically speaks for itself. The standards are being met so there really is no point in getting upset, even if your standards and expectations are higher. All you can do is provide your evaluations at the time it is asked to do so. Meanwhile you just continue to encourage the growth in confidence, skills, sportsmanship, and maturity of the children in the program. I am pretty sure every school has its share of good and not so good experiences. In that matter, Carondelet is no different.

 

[ClayK]

It would hurt Miramonte if Carondelet went all in for girls' basketball, no question -- but it wouldn't change the landscape much in terms of Northern California. Mitty, SMS, O'Dowd, Salesian, Pinewood, SHC, Cardinal Newman -- all of these schools are already committed and though adding one more would make it harder for a school like Miramonte to compete at that level, it wouldn't radically alter the equation. Of course, if Carondelet started picking off the best Orinda players, then that would have a huge impact. Imagine Carondelet with Elle Louie and Clair Steele on the roster this year.

 

[Paytc]

It would hurt Miramonte if Carondelet went all in for girls' basketball, no question -- but it wouldn't change the landscape much in terms of Northern California. Mitty, SMS, O'Dowd, Salesian, Pinewood, SHC, Cardinal Newman -- all of these schools are already committed and though adding one more would make it harder for a school like Miramonte to compete at that level, it wouldn't radically alter the equation. Of course, if Carondelet started picking off the best Orinda players, then that would have a huge impact. Imagine Carondelet with Elle Louie and Clair Steele on the roster this year.

But imagine some of Carondelet players on Miramonte's roster. The systems and coaching is quite different, so we might see a different Clair and Elle Louie. And if a few players went over to Miramonte from Carondelet we might see different Carondelet players. Systems and coaching matters significantly.

 

[Scoutus32]

It would hurt Miramonte if Carondelet went all in for girls' basketball, no question -- but it wouldn't change the landscape much in terms of Northern California. Mitty, SMS, O'Dowd, Salesian, Pinewood, SHC, Cardinal Newman -- all of these schools are already committed and though adding one more would make it harder for a school like Miramonte to compete at that level, it wouldn't radically alter the equation. Of course, if Carondelet started picking off the best Orinda players, then that would have a huge impact. Imagine Carondelet with Elle Louie and Clair Steele on the roster this year.

If the schools swapped coaches I would have to think every top player from Brentwood to Livermore to Oakland would be in play for Carondelet. It would be The Easy Bay All Stars, similar to DLS football. It really is that simple. And MM would fall into the abyss.

 

[Paytc]

If the schools swapped coaches I would have to think every top player from Brentwood to Livermore to Oakland would be in play for Carondelet. It would be The Easy Bay All Stars, similar to DLS football. It really is that simple. And MM would fall into the abyss.

I like Elgin. But that statement is very hard to deny. But I think the train that may have brought Kelly Sopak to carondelet passed after Elgin was selected over BB. My guess is once Sabrina graduated Bernard would have co- coached with Kelly.

But dreams, wishes, and assumptions must at some point move aside for reality. The reality is Kelly Sopak is the MM coach. And Elgin is the Carondelet coach. The pull Of Kelly and the Cal Stars at a private school at least at Carondelet does not appear likely.

So now it would make more sense to make the best of the situation(s) in hand. Elgin has the team on the doorstep which could lead to reaching the top level. Hopefully Elgin keeps learning and improving as a coach. And that improvement helps all the children under him become more confident, skilled, and accomplished players.

 

[mkbgdns]

I would have to think every top player from Brentwood to Livermore to Oakland would be in play for Carondelet.

I think you underestimate the considerations facing parents who have 1 or 2 kids in high school. catholic may be cheaper than private, but it ain't free, like public. the real killer for working parents with kids in high school, particularly with sports practices, is logistics. I been there. unlike norcalpreps world, in the real world basketball isn't the only factor.

 

[jaymel911]

But imagine some of Carondelet players on Miramonte's roster. The systems and coaching is quite different, so we might see a different Clair and Elle Louie. And if a few players went over to Miramonte from Carondelet we might see different Carondelet players. Systems and coaching matters significantly.

Great point.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

It would hurt Miramonte if Carondelet went all in for girls' basketball, no question -- but it wouldn't change the landscape much in terms of Northern California. Mitty, SMS, O'Dowd, Salesian, Pinewood, SHC, Cardinal Newman -- all of these schools are already committed and though adding one more would make it harder for a school like Miramonte to compete at that level, it wouldn't radically alter the equation. Of course, if Carondelet started picking off the best Orinda players, then that would have a huge impact. Imagine Carondelet with Elle Louie and Clair Steele on the roster this year.

I agree to a certain extent. Miramonte, academically, is just as good if not better than the independent/catholic schools in all of the East Bay. They're annually ranked academically so the acdemics part is thrown out the window. The other part is what advantage would they have over one another. Both can pull from different geographic areas (C-Let is a private and Miramonte is open enrollment). I think kids would still be drawn to Miramonte as long as Kelly is the head coach. With all the kids that funnel through Cal Stars, it's hard not to want to be part of that succes at the club level AND at the HS level. If I'm not mistaken (I could be), overall, Miramonte has a better record than C-Let in the open division while in regular sections, Miramonte had to deal with Bishop O'Dowd, who was arguably one of the best programs for 3-4 years straight.

You can't go wrong with both programs as they've both established themselves as tops across the tunnel.

 

[jaymel911]

I agree to a certain extent. Miramonte, academically, is just as good if not better than the independent/catholic schools in all of the East Bay. They're annually ranked academically so the acdemics part is thrown out the window. The other part is what advantage would they have over one another. Both can pull from different geographic areas (C-Let is a private and Miramonte is open enrollment). I think kids would still be drawn to Miramonte as long as Kelly is the head coach. With all the kids that funnel through Cal Stars, it's hard not to want to be part of that succes at the club level AND at the HS level. If I'm not mistaken (I could be), overall, Miramonte has a better record than C-Let in the open division while in regular sections, Miramonte had to deal with Bishop O'Dowd, who was arguably one of the best programs for 3-4 years straight.

You can't go wrong with both programs as they've both established themselves as tops across the tunnel.

Great points. I think the real question is would a coach want to deal with the parents at Carondelet or Miramonte. If a helicopter parent is defined as a parent that flies over the program what is a parent called that opines the status of the programs and coaches on a message board?

 

[Paytc]

Great points. I think the real question is would a coach want to deal with the parents at Carondelet or Miramonte. If a helicopter parent is defined as a parent that flies over the program what is a parent called that opines the status of the programs and coaches on a message board?

Probably a good parent who is very concerned with every aspect of their child and other children's lives. And one who keeps the message board popping off the hook. I for one wish there were a few more, too bad there aren't. And big props goes out to the founder(s) of the site provided for the entire community which allows mostly coaches, ex-coaches, parents, fans, and a very few players a chance to voice and express things they celebrate and are concerned with. Great idea as it provides a valuable resource. Keep it going !

 

[ClayK]

Technically, Miramonte is not an "open enrollment" school, as even students within the district must apply for a transfer. Both Sabrina Ionescu and Haley Van Dyke live in the Las Lomas attendance district, but both filled out the paperwork and started at Miramonte and Campo as freshmen. Those outside the district must go through a process as well, and can only be accepted if there's room at the school. Ironically, Las Lomas is impacted in terms of enrollment so that school is helped when students opt for other Acalanes School District high schools.