In game violence - perspectives

[awood1]

In reading through some of the posts re; recent incidents of on the field fights, there are some things I just don’t “get” and I feel like some of it is a regional perspective I don’t have because I’m not a Sacramento or CA native? Speaking as an “old school” guy from the Midwest, I feel like my experiences are different than what I’m seeing today. Some of these are related to changes over time, others may be regional. Without speaking to specifics of any school or incident, I’d like to hear others thoughts. So a few observations;

* Pre-game antics; I see a lot of theatrics, from strutting and posturing to actual staged “skits” long before the game even starts. I suppose these are intended to be a mental mind game to hype up a team and intimidate an opponent. Not sure that it was in any way disallowed when I was a kid, but I know coaches wouldn’t tolerate it. Used to be that you were told to “focus on the game” and get ready to compete. If you wanted to intimidate or dominate your opponent, that’s why they gave you pads and a helmet? Get after it from whistle to whistle and demonstrate your dominance when it counts.

* “Talking” during the game; Seems incredible to me that this could upset anyone during a game? I grew up in a simplistic time that pretty much was covered under the “sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me!” Again, IF I have a beef and WANT TO hurt someone, as soon as that ball moves I have license to whoop that a$$ until the whistle blows? And racial slurs? Really? Is there a team anywhere that is monolithic? One of the beauties of the game is that it takes kids of all races, religions and financial backgrounds WORKING TOGETHER to be successful. As one of the few “white kids” on my HS team, unless the racial slur was coming from a teammate I could give 2 $hits what another team says. Beyond that, I talked smack ALL DAY! I’d rag on a kids hair, socks, lack of speed or strength, ask if he had any pics of his mother or girlfriend (and then tell him I’d give him some of mine) and heaven forbid if I beat him on a play...and if I ticked them off? Well the next time the ball moves, I’ll be right here waiting...come get some!

* Fans on the field; This is totally foreign to me. We had our fair share of fights in the parking lot after the game or getting on the bus but there was NEVER anyone inside the track that wasn’t either playing, coaching or officiating. I get the sense that some folks think this is a “warm fuzzy” of small town charm that is part of the Friday night experience. In reality, it’s a recipe for disaster! I see some schools that line the edges of the field and end zones with every joe that ever wore a helmet or bought a ticket? There is ZERO reason for those people to be there. If you bought a ticket, get your a$$ in a seat and cheer on your team. The sense of entitlement is incredible. I’ve seen adults shouting at HS kids and officials at the edge of the field in a way that would get them arrested in any other context. These people somehow feel that they’re “special” and shouldn’t be required to sit with the “common folks” in the stands. Sorry to burst the bubble, but if you aren’t coaching, playing or officiating, you have no place on the field! I don’t care how many championships you won “back in the day”, how many beers you’ve shared with the coach, how many dollars you donated or how many “cousins” you have on the team, you don’t belong on the field.

I’ve seen all of the above as contributing / mitigating factors in things going south in aHS football game. I’d be interested in hearing others observations & experiences as well as any feedback supporting or contradicting my views. At the end of the day, it’s a game played by kids that should be teaching life lessons and creating memories for a lifetime. Whatever can be done to stop it from becoming a senseless mosh pit or gang fight should be considered.

.....stepping down off the soapbox.

 

[Truthhertz]

Great post and I agree with everything posted. I would also add there seems to a serious lack of hard nosed coaches who will hold their kids to a higher standard. There are plenty who talk about it but few that seem to actually do it. Winning seems to be the only thing that matters to many of these coaches, and winning while fun isn’t really the most important thing in HS football. I still to this day don’t understand the staged entrances teams do, what a waist of energy and time.

 

[SPortela24]

Great post and I agree with everything posted. I would also add there seems to a serious lack of hard nosed coaches who will hold their kids to a higher standard. There are plenty who talk about it but few that seem to actually do it. Winning seems to be the only thing that matters to many of these coaches, and winning while fun isn’t really the most important thing in HS football. I still to this day don’t understand the staged entrances teams do, what a waist of energy and time.

I don't blame the coaches for this at all. We live in a time where kids have more power than the coaches do. If you raise your voice a little too much to a kid your job is put in jeopardy.

 

[RidgeRider]

I blame it almost entirely on inadequate parenting

 

[Kickingtee18]

I blame it almost entirely on inadequate parenting

There is a lot of that for sure.

Pre-game antics...and Fans on the field

Get rid of both! Pregame staged entrances, gesturing and mid-field antics are not part of the game, just run out and get to business, and get "fans" off the field, no place for them.

 

[FormerD1Backer]

I think there is a trickle down effect here as well from the NFL and even the NCAA to a lesser extent. We all grew up as fans of the game and watching how NFL players conduct themselves sets the bar for these high school kids, which puts even more responsibility on the shoulders of parents and coaches to tamp that down at a time where both don't seem as equipped or interested in doing so as they once were. While you see the boorish, "in your face" behavior too many places, there are still teams at all levels that are the exception to the rule. Responsibility must be taken by the AD, coaches and community as a whole, with zero tolerance for on-field antics by players, coaches, parents or family members. Yes, we all are die hard fans of our kids and their teams, but there is no reason certain minimum standards for behavior can't be adhered to at each and every high school that plays the game.

In the programs I'm referencing, any player who can't go without jawing and posturing pregame, unsportsmanlike jawing and posturing during the game or at any point in between, including social media, they find their way off the team in short order. And yes, it's better to lose a "star" player or two than to have the entire program pulled down because nobody had the guts to do the right thing.

I know this is easier said than done in some schools where socioeconomic factors have heavier impact on the population, but again there have been many examples of such schools where athletics have been part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

I can barely watch the NFL these days, where these athletes who get paid huge amounts of money celebrate like they just cured cancer after each first down or TD. I can't remember who coined the term, "act like you've been there before," but that message seems to have been lost on the league in total. Maybe it's time our High Schools became the example for these prima donnas to follow.

 

[Kickingtee18]

Responsibility must be taken by the AD, coaches and community as a whole, with zero tolerance for on-field antics by players, coaches, parents or family members.

THIS

 

[awood1]

I blame it almost entirely on inadequate parenting

I hesitate to go down the “parent” road because, based on my own experience, it’s much more complicated than that BUT it’s at the core of this discussion. Without writing a biography, I can share that I had a traditional 2 parent household. My father demonstrated hard work, determination and commitment by working 2 jobs to support our family. That meant that he wasn’t around very much and when he was he was always some combination of angry, drunk and tired. BUT the vast majority of what it means to be a good man, husband, father, teammate, citizen and friend was taught and demonstrated to me by someone other than my father. The majority of lessons I carry forward today, were learned from coaches.

“Act like you’ve been there before”
“Treat others like you’d like to be treated”
“If it weren’t for the officials, we’d have no game!”
“If you don’t like losing, DO something about it.”
“When you go looking for trouble, don’t cry like a bitch when you find it!” - $
“Pain never lasts forever”
“Character is what you do when you think nobody is looking”
“People forget what you say, they remember what you do”
“If they didn’t throw a flag, there was no foul”
“Lead, follow or get out of the way”

These phrases and countless others ring in my head every day and every one of them can be traced directly to a coach. I am deeply grateful to both of my parents and what they did for me, but if I am weighing out the contributions to who made a difference in my life I have to tip the scales to coaches. In comparison to coaching in today’s world, I see a couple of disturbing trends.

* - The PC police; I constantly see helicopter parents dictating a coaches actions and being supported in their quest to do so by administrators and the general public. Even in recent discussions, the talk of “no coach should EVER lay his hands on another team's kids” is disturbing. IF my kid was on the field acting a fool and had to be controlled by an adult, I don’t give two $hits what color shirt the adult correcting him is wearing! If my kid got in a brawl on the field and then punk slapped by an opposing coach, I would refer him to note $ above. If my kid isn't mature enough to handle his emotions and follow an adult's instructions without having to be physically controlled, maybe he’s not ready to be part of a team?

*- Daddy ball; As described above, my father never coached me and rarely even saw me play. There is no regret in that statement, I know that he was busy doing what was best for our family so that I could have shoes to wear to play those sports! I consider myself extremely fortunate to have had the coaches that I had over the years that covered the spectrum in terms of age, race, and abilities. IF there was ever a “problem”, from playing time to grades, it was up to ME to talk to the them. That meant I had to speak intelligently and respectfully in a constructive manner and be willing to take the results of that discussion and comply OR find something else to do with my free time. This didn’t hurt me! It made me able to address uncomfortable situations without fear, rage or other useless emotions. Kids today are told before, after (and sometimes DURING) the game, that any perceived difficulty or responsibility for success or failure is not THEIR responsibility. Quite often, everything from wins and losses, to playing time are all blamed on a “dumb coach”, “bad official”, cheating opponent or even a “stupid teammate” who “lost the game” despite their best effort, by the same parents that feel much more comfortable writing a letter to the local paper or placing a call to their principal than actually accepting the fact that their child had ANY role in the outcome.

In a perfect world, kids would receive all they need from their parents financially and emotionally. Unfortunately the reality is far different though. In my case (and many others I suspect) there is an opportunity for coaches through football and sports in general to help guide these young men and women towards being good people in a way that few others are afforded. As Spiderman’s grandmother said, “With great power, comes great responsibility.”

 

[remc]

I don't blame the coaches for this at all. We live in a time where kids have more power than the coaches do. If you raise your voice a little too much to a kid your job is put in jeopardy.

I think that the head coach sets the tone for the character and behavior of his team. If a coach wants a no nonsense, no showboating, team he demonstrates zero tolerance for such behavior. Consequences for such actions must be severe.It starts with accountability. Nothing like “sunrise services “,( extra conditioning, up downs, etc) early in the AM to get the point across. But it must be enforced without regard to how good or important an individual player is to a team. Without exception.Up to and including dismissal from the team. Just my .02

 

[northbayfb]

Great post. Agree with most of your points, but bottom line its the coaches that allow or condone the behavior. Occassionally its the parent(s) from the stands inciting the action. Go to a 7X7 tournament this spring and you get an idea of where the lines blur. Saw a physical dust up at a non-contact QB/WR camp last year that extended to the parents of each kid. One parent spit on another. Should be zero tolerance. At least there are background checks for high school coaches.

 

[SpeedCity51]

Regarding the talking, I think that’s pretty hard to police because a lot of times a HC simply doesn’t know it’s happening unless a player really crosses the line and a ref intervenes. When I was in high school I played for two different HCs. One was a very laid back guy that didn’t control the team very well and ended up being fired. The second was a very strict HC that didn’t tolerate any bull regarding unsportsmanlike actions. I didn’t talk any trash while playing, but our school was known for running our mouths, and that happened under both coaches.

 

[bella123]

I think that the head coach sets the tone for the character and behavior of his team. If a coach wants a no nonsense, no showboating, team he demonstrates zero tolerance for such behavior. Consequences for such actions must be severe.It starts with accountability. Nothing like “sunrise services “,( extra conditioning, up downs, etc) early in the AM to get the point across. But it must be enforced without regard to how good or important an individual player is to a team. Without exception.Up to and including dismissal from the team. Just my .02

This I agree with wholeheartedly!

However in today’s helicopter parent climate I’d think coaches would be a little wary and worried about little Johnnies mom and dad. They’d go to the principal or school board or even threaten to get a ambulance chaser involved due to the “cruel and unusual punishment” their kid had to go through.

 

[FormerD1Backer]

This I agree with wholeheartedly!

However in today’s helicopter parent climate I’d think coaches would be a little wary and worried about little Johnnies mom and dad. They’d go to the principal or school board or even threaten to get a ambulance chaser involved due to the “cruel and unusual punishment” their kid had to go through.

Followed by the story making headlines in several national news outlets... inmates running our asylum.

 

[SPortela24]

I think that the head coach sets the tone for the character and behavior of his team. If a coach wants a no nonsense, no showboating, team he demonstrates zero tolerance for such behavior. Consequences for such actions must be severe.It starts with accountability. Nothing like “sunrise services “,( extra conditioning, up downs, etc) early in the AM to get the point across. But it must be enforced without regard to how good or important an individual player is to a team. Without exception.Up to and including dismissal from the team. Just my .02

I with you but we live in a time where parents back their kids for right or wrong.

 

[Truthhertz]

Parents are a excuse for not having stones to do what’s right. Don’t want parents to meddle? Make it known from day 1 of freshman ball that communication is key, not everybody will play, but everybody will follow the rules. Don’t hire parents to be assistant coaches, etc. Be consistent with everybody on the team for the star to last guy on bench. I think more often than not parents will fall in line and respect the coach, those who don’t will leave. And honestly probably for the better of the program.

 

[TheGoldenShower]

Poor Test Scores, Poor grades, cutting classes, drinking and drugs, fighting(on and off field) is a direct reflection of parenting in majority of cases. It’s a fact 2 parent households creates less of the above. Either way fighting during a game is what it is, that’s why there are ejection rules and suspensions. At the end of the day you are hurting YOUR team with the behavior.

On a side note, I feel bad for the Grant HC. The guy is a saint to work at that program. It’s not an easy job to deal with all the hardships that come with the program. Grades, Gangs, drugs, budget etc. I wish that guy the best.

 

[BigMann08]

I agree, the sideline should only be for the coaches, players, trainers, managers, water boys, chain gang, officials etc.

Bottom line is school districts need to do a better job of hiring coaches. Coaches definitely need to manage their sidelines better. The CIF may also need to consider setting guidelines for field etiquette.

I dont mind a little woofing, smack talking, or showboating, etc. If you cant back it up on the field; then you make your self look bad when you get your lunch handed to you. The culture of football has changed. The culture of football (from a player perspective) is now dominated by Hip Hop culture.

High School sports is amateurism. But HS Head coaches are paid professionals. The Grant job is one of the marquee jobs in the nation. Especially for coaches that prefer to coach in the inner city... Grant has (Great community support, huge alumni, strong youth football programs, lots of athletes, huge lineman etc.)

 

[coachlittle]

On a side note, I feel bad for the Grant HC. The guy is a saint to work at that program. It’s not an easy job to deal with all the hardships that come with the program. Grades, Gangs, drugs, budget etc. I wish that guy the best.

 

[mistark]

The culture of football (from a player perspective) is now dominated by Hip Hop culture.

I would say its dominated by Youth n Pop culture. Just happens that "Hip Hop" is more popular than ever. When you have social media websites that are making highlight videos of 8 yr olds and playing obscene language n put it out to make money or showing local high schools coming out in holloween mask, ski mask clowns mask and holding fake knives is a damn shame. This is Not a One program problem, its an everyone problem. It is a case of the public lowering their standards then wondering what happened and why there or now issues going on.

 

[RidgeRider]

Parents are a excuse for not having stones to do what’s right. Don’t want parents to meddle? Make it known from day 1 of freshman ball that communication is key, not everybody will play, but everybody will follow the rules. Don’t hire parents to be assistant coaches, etc. Be consistent with everybody on the team for the star to last guy on bench. I think more often than not parents will fall in line and respect the coach, those who don’t will leave. And honestly probably for the better of the program.

I agree with this, I would only add that there are some parents that are wired in such a way they can't help themselves. They will openly say they don't meddle because that is how they want to be perceived and how they view themselves when they are not "out of their minds" but will do exactly that when they don't like how their kid is being dealt with, even when coaches and administrators tell them the boundaries. But like most things in life, it's the few that ruin the reputation of the whole.

I would say its dominated by Youth n Pop culture. Just happens that "Hip Hop" is more popular than ever. When you have social media websites that are making highlight videos of 8 yr olds and playing obscene language n put it out to make money or showing local high schools coming out in holloween mask, ski mask clowns mask and holding fake knives is a damn shame. This is Not a One program problem, its an everyone problem. It is a case of the public lowering their standards then wondering what happened and why there or now issues going on.

Coach makes a good point, parents have lowered their standards as a group. Standards need to be raised, I really don't care how the kids feel about it. I 'trash' that sub-culture constantly and consistently with my kids in a very judgmental way cause I want them questioning everything about it even while they enjoy and listen to the often vile songs that are produced by a few of the popular artists.

I have turned into the "get off my lawn!" guy.

 

[FormerD1Backer]

I have turned into the "get off my lawn!" guy.

Lol... I used to constantly question my daughter as she tried to play the middle ground in promoting Feminism while at the same time listening to and being a fan of a number of vile Rap and Hip/Hop artists spouting their degrading and misogynistic lyrics. She never really had an answer, and eventually her tastes changed.

Erosion of societal standards and respect certainly plays a part in all of this.

 

[RidgeRider]

Lol... I used to constantly question my daughter as she tried to play the middle ground in promoting Feminism while at the same time listening to and being a fan of a number of vile Rap and Hip/Hop artists spouting their degrading and misogynistic lyrics. She never really had an answer, and eventually her tastes changed.

Erosion of societal standards and respect certainly plays a part in all of this.

Funny, my daughter did the same thing.

In fairness, there are artists in that genre who are producing "clean" message-oriented songs too so it's not across the board but seems like every time I hear it in public, even at sporting events with little kids, the lyrics are total trash with the kinds of characteristics you mention above.

I also think we are too concerned with making our kids happy rather than parenting them with the life lessons we espouse that football teaches, which undermines the reasons we want them to play in the first place.

 

[WWHS44]

Game Cure,

1) Pregame antics are now against the rules. Jogging around the field, mid field stomping in pregame etc.
2) Extras on the side line, we all like to "feel " special standing on the sideline during games..It is a privileged feel but one that has no use. Players, Trainers and coaches only....Admin leaves also...
3) HC is accountable for all his teams actions. He is not beyond reproach including suspension.
4) Program accountability to include game suspensions and forfeits.

Tough, yes but it will make the correct people know the game is on the line and the nonsense will stop...

 

[feedback1]

The rules today are already adequate. The solution to poor enforcement of existing rules should not be more rules.

Let's face it, football is a highly competitive game and no extra rule(s) is going to eliminate every fight/trash talking, etc. The solution to the problem is mostly on officials. A lot is on the HCs - for sure. The officials need to take charge of games, call games fairly and put the right officials as the referee, HL and LJ. These are the guys that manage the games and communicate with the HC's. When games get out of hand, it is almost 100% certain that you have an over-matched officiating crew that allowed the escalation to happen. It is usually the small things that add up to the emotional boil-over. Stuff that is not seen from the stands.

 

[remc]

The rules today are already adequate. The solution to poor enforcement of existing rules should not be more rules.

Let's face it, football is a highly competitive game and no extra rule(s) is going to eliminate every fight/trash talking, etc. The solution to the problem is mostly on officials. A lot is on the HCs - for sure. The officials need to take charge of games, call games fairly and put the right officials as the referee, HL and LJ. These are the guys that manage the games and communicate with the HC's. When games get out of hand, it is almost 100% certain that you have an over-matched officiating crew that allowed the escalation to happen. It is usually the small things that add up to the emotional boil-over. Stuff that is not seen from the stands.

Absolutely correct about refs needing to take charge of games. Calls that are made early and consistently set the tone.

 

[WWHS44]

To watch a coach have his star player make a flagrant hit against a defenseless opponent and not remove him from the game sends a very large message...Then the player starts the next game bc said coach talked to him.......Has absolutley nothing to do with the officials......HC's make the decisions of who is on or off the field not the ref.....The ref does not tell teams to stomp the opponents logo in mid field pregame.....Again this is on the HC.....now for 60.00 do you want to go out on a friday night and have some coach not be accountable for his own team and scream at you.....then his fans follow along his chorus line......Nope and thus you have no officials.....something is seriously wrong before the refs get involved.

 

[feedback1]

To watch a coach have his star player make a flagrant hit against a defenseless opponent and not remove him from the game sends a very large message...Then the player starts the next game bc said coach talked to him.......

There are so many assumptions here it is hard to take this seriously. Congratulations on the intimate knowledge you must have to not only know EXACTLY what happened on the field, but in the locker room and between two people you do not know.

You are also (seemingly) sowing together a string of incidents that have no string when viewed by the league or section.

You cannot make up rules to enact your own version of social justice because you hate one team.

 

[1315]

Lol... I used to constantly question my daughter as she tried to play the middle ground in promoting Feminism while at the same time listening to and being a fan of a number of vile Rap and Hip/Hop artists spouting their degrading and misogynistic lyrics. She never really had an answer, and eventually her tastes changed.

Erosion of societal standards and respect certainly plays a part in all of this.

Have had to sit through innumerable bad walk ups for 10 years (yes, they had them in HS.)
Thankfully mine put more thought in them than some of those “explicit versions” by others. Pretty raunchy with no melodies...

Partial list of 1315.2’s walk ups from HS-D1-Pro
1. Andrea Bocelli - Con Te Partiro
2. The Animals- House of the Rising Sun
3. Whitney- I Will Always Love You
4. Norman Greenbaum- Spirit In The Sky


We smiled at the renegade offerings, instead of going with the crowd. You know the sport if you can translate from Italian!