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Maxpreps National Top 25 Pinewood now at 23

Make up call?
Should have been 23 the previous week so they should actually be like 20 this week.
The away Salesian and Clet games seem to be the only speed bumps now
before the meeting with Mitty in the CCS Open Final.
http://www.maxpreps.com/news/QX2l8Z...-25-high-school-girls-basketball-rankings.htm

I personally think Max Prep often gets the poll order wrong. SOS is never factored in. Just team size, tradition, win/loss record, and the number of so call D1 players. I think they had CTK #1 at one point. They're 4-4 now after the Nike TOC. SOS should be given more value than MAX Prep gives it IMO. But hey, all polls are just opinions and many are often wrong. It's not easy to get polls right. I guess that's the fun watching so call upsets take place. When top teams actually play in tough on the road tournaments.

I have Pinewood in the top 10 at the moment without even giving it much thought. It's hard to forget the season they're coming off last year, ( beating the #1 in the nation NIKE TOC Champs Mitty) and the fact they're undefeated at this point with two good tournament wins. Those tournaments had Max Prep #2 Etiwanda and #7 IW in them with one tournament victory coming on the road and over the ocean.

The fact is all teams can be beaten.

Pinewood would most likely beat the so call number 1 team at the moment. As would MCD, Centennial, Windward, and a few others who aren't even on Max Prep top 19.

But I guess since the toughest they( BM) will be playing is St. Johns, then St. Johns will need to bust their bubble. Or give them a bit more validation to be in the top 5. In all fairness I haven't seen BM play, so hey perhaps they are deserving of a top 5 spot. The St. Johns contest will tell us more.

I'll take Centennial over Windward this weekend. And Mitty vs Sacramento will be one of the interesting local match ups this weekend. Along with Clet @ SMS who is always tough at home even though they're young and not at full strength. Then there's Antelope vs California, SHCP VS Salesian, and SJND VS Mater Dei also on 1/5/19.

The following week Pinewood @ Clet should convince the Clet coaching staff ( who may already be convinced) how much size can be over rated in some games. And make them continue to ( make game time adjustments) develop and depend on their team depth. Depth in addition to size is also a luxury Clet has. I don't think Pinewood will find it quite as easy (32 point victory last year) beating Clet this season.Though I have Pinewood favored, it could come down to who has the momentum in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter.

Windward vs Sierra Canyon 1/15/19 should be interesting. And even more so if Windward can beat Centennial a tough challenge the game before S.C.
 
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Really, it's all about strength of schedule -- and Pinewood has one win over a quality out-of-state team. Their big chance was to play Etiwanda, which like Pinewood was on the cusp of the top 25, but Etiwanda got upset.

And unlike Windward, say, which has Centennial Saturday and Sierra Canyon later this month, Pinewood doesn't have any elite out-of-state teams left on its schedule. The two best games remaining are against Salesian, which went 1-3 at the Nike TOC, and Carondelet, which lost its first game in Arizona and then won three in the loser's bracket.

Of course, the California postseason will be a test, but until then, that win over Incarnate Word is the biggest entry in Pinewood's resume, and it doesn't measure up to many of the teams ranked ahead of it.
 
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Really, it's all about strength of schedule -- and Pinewood has one win over a quality out-of-state team. Their big chance was to play Etiwanda, which like Pinewood was on the cusp of the top 25, but Etiwanda got upset.

And unlike Windward, say, which has Centennial Saturday and Sierra Canyon later this month, Pinewood doesn't have any elite out-of-state teams left on its schedule. The two best games remaining are against Salesian, which went 1-3 at the Nike TOC, and Carondelet, which lost its first game in Arizona and then won three in the loser's bracket.

Of course, the California postseason will be a test, but until then, that win over Incarnate Word is the biggest entry in Pinewood's resume, and it doesn't measure up to many of the teams ranked ahead of it.

So you don't consider the fact Pinewood beat last seasons Nike TOC champ and former #1 team Mitty important? And the fact that Pinewood was California's Open Division state champion runner up last season? Shouldn't those accomplishments be considered when they start the season to put them in the top ten to start the season? I know they lost Bri Claros but with the same coach and what many thought their two best players returning shouldn't that be considered? It wasn't Pinewood's fault Etiwanda got upset. That didn't lesson the fact that Pinewood went on to win the tournament. Pinewood beat the team that beat Etiwanda. All teams are over rated except for I guess Pinewood. Because they have to turn flips to get rated while teams like CTK and Bishop M, can just be place number 1 because they have more so call D1 players.I know it's true on paper and when you look at Pinewood they don't look like a top 10 in the nation team. But they constantly take down big teams when their paths cross. What was Mitty ( a team that typically gets ranked high) ranked when the season started? Probably higher than Pinewood. All Pinewood can do is beat those left on the schedule which include trying to run through the California Open state championship. But even if they do if they are ranked outside of the top 10 ( actually outside of the top 20) there may be no way they will get considered for a top 5 team at the end of the year even after winning the California Open State championship. Because Sierra Canyon (who is undefeated and play Windward) isn't even ranked as high as they should be to help California teams (who are typically some of the nation's best) get a number 1 ranking. Because most likely California teams will knock each other off and out of the top 5 even before the Open state championship. Someone has to win out of Windward and Sierra Canyon. I'm just trying to figure out the thought behind the process to better understand how it works.
 
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Yep, as I said when Etiwanda was beat by Sacto that really hurt PW...PW needs to beat the "power" school because they didn't go to the TOC....
the CCS Open final with Mitty is key....anybody know where and when the CCS Open final is?
 
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Yep, as I said when Etiwanda was beat by Sacto that really hurt PW...PW needs to beat the "power" school because they didn't go to the TOC....
the CCS Open final with Mitty is key....anybody know where and when the CCS Open final is?

Obviuosly either Etiwanda wasn't a power school (but were ranked like one) or Sacramento and/ or Pinewood are power schools but are not ranked like one. So it doesn't matter whether Pinewood beat Etiwanda or not. Etiwanda loss because they were on the road out of their area playing a team they didn't know how to game plan for. I've always said it's tougher to play on the road against teams you don't know. That's why Bishop M has a weak SOS ( where have they traveled and what out of state teams have they beaten out of state) But they are still sitting at #1 which I find a questionable ranking. But hey, I'm just keeping it all interesting. As I have always said any good (and well coached) team can beat any other good (and well coached) team. The more teams that run into tougher match ups and still find a way to win just tend to be more proven teams IMO.

I do agree Pinewood should take a slight knock for not attending the TOC. But so should Bishop M. yet their sitting at #1 on Max Prep. Go figure........ One team gets the top spot despite not going and the other gets an over 20 spot drop.
 
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Yep, as I said when Etiwanda was beat by Sacto that really hurt PW...PW needs to beat the "power" school because they didn't go to the TOC....
the CCS Open final with Mitty is key....anybody know where and when the CCS Open final is?

I don't see how it hurt PW. They Beat Sac, and Etiwanda a common opponent. Am I missing something here?
 
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What happened last year has very little to do with this year's rankings. Defending champion counts for nothing, or Central Valley would have started in the top 25.

Significant wins for Bishop McNamara:

Hamilton Heights (TN)
New Hope (MD)
St. Francis (GA)
Southeast Raleigh (NC)
Riverdale (TN)
Neumann-Goretti (PA)
Roland Park (MD)
Paul VI (VA)
Frederick (MD)

Significant wins for Pinewood:

Incarnate Word (MO)
Salesian (CA)
Carondelet (CA)
 
What happened last year has very little to do with this year's rankings. Defending champion counts for nothing, or Central Valley would have started in the top 25.

Significant wins for Bishop McNamara:

Hamilton Heights (TN)
New Hope (MD)
St. Francis (GA)
Southeast Raleigh (NC)
Riverdale (TN)
Neumann-Goretti (PA)
Roland Park (MD)
Paul VI (VA)
Frederick (MD)

Significant wins for Pinewood:

Incarnate Word (MO)
Salesian (CA)
Carondelet (CA)

How many of those games did Bishop win while outside of their home state? And who on that list is better than Pinewood? New Hope is the best I see. And where was that game played? And don't the two (MD) teams New Hope and Bishop McNamara know each other? It's harder to play teams you don't know when your on the road.

I personally think taking the previous season ( and number of return players and add ons into account) should most definitely impact the way preseason ranking orders are determined. But that's just my opinion. It typically works that way in the NFL and NBA.

Even if we don't knock Bishop McNamara sitting at the #1 slot. It just seems wrong to have Pinewood at #23 IMO.
 
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Pinewood has one Power 5 player in Hannah Jump, and several other D-1 candidates.

New Hope, to name just one of McNamara's opponents, has three or four Power 5 players, plus numerous D-1s, and every team on that list has more Division I depth than Salesian or Carondelet.

Three of those wins came in North Carolina; the others were all relatively close to home (DMV).

Also, moving forward, Bishop McNamara plays in a very competitive league (with St. John's and Paul VI, just to name two), and has St. Frances of Maryland, which was previously ranked and has lost just once, as well.

Bishop McNamara, of course, itself has three or four Power 5 girls, and by all accounts, has nine players on the roster who will play Division I basketball.
 
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Pinewood has one Power 5 player in Hannah Jump, and several other D-1 candidates.

New Hope, to name just one of McNamara's opponents, has three or four Power 5 players, plus numerous D-1s, and every team on that list has more Division I depth than Salesian or Carondelet.

Three of those wins came in North Carolina; the others were all relatively close to home (DMV).

Also, moving forward, Bishop McNamara plays in a very competitive league (with St. John's and Paul VI, just to name two), and has St. Frances of Maryland, which was previously ranked and has lost just once, as well.

Bishop McNamara, of course, itself has three or four Power 5 girls, and by all accounts, has nine players on the roster who will play Division I basketball.

So it doesn't matter if teams like Pinewood constantly beats #1 teams in the nation like Mitty and SMS among others. What matters most is the number of D1 players not the team that plays best whether they have 1 or 9 D1 players. Ok I got it. At least now it makes sense. Thanks !

I've always been someone who appreciates those who do more with less. I guess that's why I have a different perspective. But I can see you dilemma, college scouts want to scout teams with the most D1 players. So putting them in the spot light helps.
 
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I watched She Got Game, Title IX and the Final of the Crescom where BM destroyed Riverdale ...by 40 and RD is a very good team... That said I am a fan of PW...
PW can put so much pressure on another team because of the way they can shoot the 3...as I said last year and previous years they should continue to shoot 3s....at least 25 when they play Clet, Salesian and maybe 30 when they play Mitty...
if they shoot like they did in Hawaii they can beat anybody in the nation
 
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Has Pinewood beaten a No. 1 team this year? If we go on the past, then shouldn't Central Valley still be ranked?

In fact, has Pinewood beaten a team presently in the top 25 this year? Has Mitty? Has Salesian? Has Carondelet? Has SMS?
 
Has Pinewood beaten a No. 1 team this year? If we go on the past, then shouldn't Central Valley still be ranked?

In fact, has Pinewood beaten a team presently in the top 25 this year? Has Mitty? Has Salesian? Has Carondelet? Has SMS?



YES!!!

Salesian beat Centennial (#9 in your rankings) and Pinewood beat Salesian...

so how is Centennial ahead of PW?????

and wasn't Incarnate Word Academy a top 10 team (in some publications) when PW beat them in Hawaii???

at this point I guess results on the court don't matter anymore as CTK is 4-4 and STILL #15 in the country


to be perfectly honest Ive been holding off in getting in on this discussion as I thought Clay would come to his senses...

but I think...


MY NEXT POINT NEEDS TO BE MADE


I really don't want to accuse Clay on any rankings bias/dislike/prejudice BUT....as I read his takes and scratch my head I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that there may be more at play with the rankings that meets the eye.

Everyone knows Clay is at MM and a big part of Cal Stars. And we all know how successful the Cal Stars top program has been over the last decade and how they routinely draw stud girls from not only the entire state but the entire west coast.

Well last yrs squad was not at the usual level of excellence and was not even the best AAU team in California.

THAT honor fell to Team Taurasi.....

and lo and behold who is the head coach at Team Taurasi????

PW assistant coach Alex Carbonel....

sour grapes???

or maybe just don't want to give PW the recognition they deserve because of fear that will be used to recruit girls this next AAU season?

We all know how cutthroat hi level HS basketball is in the AAU world.

And the coaching staffs don't like each other from the 2 programs....in fact let me rephrase that......

THEY DESPISE EACH OTHER


so just one mans take on the PW rankings issue....take it for what its worth
 
YES!!!

Salesian beat Centennial (#9 in your rankings) and Pinewood beat Salesian...

so how is Centennial ahead of PW?????

and wasn't Incarnate Word Academy a top 10 team (in some publications) when PW beat them in Hawaii???

at this point I guess results on the court don't matter anymore as CTK is 4-4 and STILL #15 in the country


to be perfectly honest Ive been holding off in getting in on this discussion as I thought Clay would come to his senses...

but I think...


MY NEXT POINT NEEDS TO BE MADE


I really don't want to accuse Clay on any rankings bias/dislike/prejudice BUT....as I read his takes and scratch my head I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that there may be more at play with the rankings that meets the eye.

Everyone knows Clay is at MM and a big part of Cal Stars. And we all know how successful the Cal Stars top program has been over the last decade and how they routinely draw stud girls from not only the entire state but the entire west coast.

Well last yrs squad was not at the usual level of excellence and was not even the best AAU team in California.

THAT honor fell to Team Taurasi.....

and lo and behold who is the head coach at Team Taurasi????

PW assistant coach Alex Carbonel....

sour grapes???

or maybe just don't want to give PW the recognition they deserve because of fear that will be used to recruit girls this next AAU season?

We all know how cutthroat hi level HS basketball is in the AAU world.

And the coaching staffs don't like each other from the 2 programs....in fact let me rephrase that......

THEY DESPISE EACH OTHER


so just one mans take on the PW rankings issue....take it for what its worth

You think Clay has that much power to keep a team like Pinewood out of the rankings or limit them to lower rankings? Clay isn't the basketball god. Sure he can make recommendations, but on the real...outside of CA, who has pinewood really played? Trust me, I think the world of Doc and PW but their SOS isn't all that impressive. So while I can see your side of the argument (and I think they're the best team in Norcal by far), I don't think they're deserving of anything other than where they currently are.
 
You think Clay has that much power to keep a team like Pinewood out of the rankings or limit them to lower rankings?

Clay compiles the MaxPreps Xcellent 25 rankings each week. So yes I think he does have that much power. Am I missing something?

I think the world of Doc and PW but their SOS isn't all that impressive.

The MaxPreps computer ranking lists their SOS as the ninth highest in the country. I'd say that's pretty impressive, wouldn't you?

So while I can see your side of the argument (and I think they're the best team in Norcal by far), I don't think they're deserving of anything other than where they currently are.

I think they deserve to be higher at this point, but I don't think they will be the best team in NorCal at the end of the season. Stay tuned.
 
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Their coach is doing them a disservice by not playing in the best tournaments in the country. Don't expect to be ranked when you don't play against the best . It's that simple . You can upset a really good team one game , but can u do it 4 straight games against the best teams n the country. No way ,. That's probably why they've never played against the best at the TOC . Bad scheduling by pinewood.
 
Pinewood has one Power 5 player in Hannah Jump, and several other D-1 candidates.

New Hope, to name just one of McNamara's opponents, has three or four Power 5 players, plus numerous D-1s, and every team on that list has more Division I depth than Salesian or Carondelet.

Three of those wins came in North Carolina; the others were all relatively close to home (DMV).

Also, moving forward, Bishop McNamara plays in a very competitive league (with St. John's and Paul VI, just to name two), and has St. Frances of Maryland, which was previously ranked and has lost just once, as well.

Bishop McNamara, of course, itself has three or four Power 5 girls, and by all accounts, has nine players on the roster who will play Division I basketball.

Yes. Individual stars. Great. Wonderful. But Pinewood is the very definition of outstanding, prepared, focused team basketball, five kids functioning as one like few other prep units in the Golden State. They are consistently under-rated by all of us out there in the electronic ether. Ask Mitty, SMS and others who wind up falling to the Pinewood approach. It doesn't really matter if they are ranked No.10 or No.23 or No. 88 in the U.S. It's irrelevant. They are getting ready for what's directly in front of them, the business at hand.
 
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By the way, Miramonte is somewhat similar to Pinewood at the public school level. Kudos to both of them. Love watching them.
 
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Their coach is doing them a disservice by not playing in the best tournaments in the country. Don't expect to be ranked when you don't play against the best . It's that simple . You can upset a really good team one game , but can u do it 4 straight games against the best teams n the country. No way ,. That's probably why they've never played against the best at the TOC . Bad scheduling by pinewood.

Who says the Pinewood folks fret about the team's national rating? Is there any proof of that? We're going a bit bonkers on this subject. California is so large it's virtually a separate nation with 1,500 high schools and more than 40 million people (bigger than Canada for crying out loud). Pinewood (and everyone else in CA) doesn't need to worry about the rest of the U.S. There's quite enough challenge right here. Thank you very much. My bill is in the mail.
 
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you know, colonel, I too wondered whether the kids and coaches are worried about their "rank", and thought that if they were, it would be a mistake. then I thought:

what else are posters on a message board going to do? play basketball?

I'd bet if Pwood can win the open, they'll be quite happy and satisfied. some number assigned them by some adult will be trivia.

and if they don't win, the way they play, they deserve to be at peace with their efforts.
 
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Has Pinewood beaten a No. 1 team this year? If we go on the past, then shouldn't Central Valley still be ranked?

In fact, has Pinewood beaten a team presently in the top 25 this year? Has Mitty? Has Salesian? Has Carondelet? Has SMS?

Yes. Individual stars. Great. Wonderful. But Pinewood is the very definition of outstanding, prepared, focused team basketball, five kids functioning as one like few other prep units in the Golden State. They are consistently under-rated by all of us out there in the electronic ether. Ask Mitty, SMS and others who wind up falling to the Pinewood approach. It doesn't really matter if they are ranked No.10 or No.23 or No. 88 in the U.S. It's irrelevant. They are getting ready for what's directly in front of them, the business at hand.

Seems only thing holding Pinewood back is they do too much with too little. If they had 4 or 5 so call D1 players on their team they wouldn't need to play anyone as that alone would put them in the top 20 in the nation. Then if they even played and beat 1 or 2 local teams who were ranked in the top 10 that would put them in that top 5. Unfortunately as far as rankings go Pinewood is the only Norcal team getting even somewhat taken seriously since SMS, Mitty, Odowd, Salesian ( loss 3 at TOC) are not really on the radar as they typically are. Mitty will have to pretty much run the table after dropping two in Arizona. And Mitty has several pretty good games before March starting with Sacramento. So it is what it is and always has been. Opinions with the most influence have the most power to influence the polls. And the polls don't always get it right. Obviously Pinewood can beat teams ranked in the top 10. So they should at least be ranked somewhere around there or at the least in the top 20. They will get a good challenge from Clet and Salesian again. And there is a slim chance one or both could upset Pinewood. If not when they run into Mitty and the Open they will get challenged there as well. If they keep winning they've controlled all they have control of at this point.
 
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Their coach is doing them a disservice by not playing in the best tournaments in the country. Don't expect to be ranked when you don't play against the best . It's that simple . You can upset a really good team one game , but can u do it 4 straight games against the best teams n the country. No way ,. That's probably why they've never played against the best at the TOC . Bad scheduling by pinewood.

Disservice? I don't think it's a disservice. Maybe Pinewood doesn't care about a national championship and only cares about CA? I don't know but you can't knock them for playing a good schedule...
 
What happened last year has very little to do with this year's rankings. Defending champion counts for nothing, or Central Valley would have started in the top 25.

Significant wins for Bishop McNamara:

Hamilton Heights (TN)
New Hope (MD)
St. Francis (GA)
Southeast Raleigh (NC)
Riverdale (TN)
Neumann-Goretti (PA)
Roland Park (MD)
Paul VI (VA)
Frederick (MD)

Significant wins for Pinewood:

Incarnate Word (MO)
Salesian (CA)
Carondelet (CA)

Christ the King? Incarnate word, what did they do to get ranked in the top 25?
 
YES!!!

Salesian beat Centennial (#9 in your rankings) and Pinewood beat Salesian...

so how is Centennial ahead of PW?????

and wasn't Incarnate Word Academy a top 10 team (in some publications) when PW beat them in Hawaii???

at this point I guess results on the court don't matter anymore as CTK is 4-4 and STILL #15 in the country


to be perfectly honest Ive been holding off in getting in on this discussion as I thought Clay would come to his senses...

but I think...


MY NEXT POINT NEEDS TO BE MADE


I really don't want to accuse Clay on any rankings bias/dislike/prejudice BUT....as I read his takes and scratch my head I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that there may be more at play with the rankings that meets the eye.

Everyone knows Clay is at MM and a big part of Cal Stars. And we all know how successful the Cal Stars top program has been over the last decade and how they routinely draw stud girls from not only the entire state but the entire west coast.

Well last yrs squad was not at the usual level of excellence and was not even the best AAU team in California.

THAT honor fell to Team Taurasi.....

and lo and behold who is the head coach at Team Taurasi????

PW assistant coach Alex Carbonel....

sour grapes???

or maybe just don't want to give PW the recognition they deserve because of fear that will be used to recruit girls this next AAU season?

We all know how cutthroat hi level HS basketball is in the AAU world.

And the coaching staffs don't like each other from the 2 programs....in fact let me rephrase that......

THEY DESPISE EACH OTHER


so just one mans take on the PW rankings issue....take it for what its worth
Back to the conspiracy theory again like last year?
 
YES!!!

The top part of your comment is what I'm agreeing to.

"Salesian beat Centennial (#9 in your rankings) and Pinewood beat Salesian...

so how is Centennial ahead of PW?????

and wasn't Incarnate Word Academy a top 10 team (in some publications) when PW beat them in Hawaii???

at this point I guess results on the court don't matter anymore as CTK is 4-4 and STILL #15 in the country"


The top part of your comment is what I'm agreeing to.

"Salesian beat Centennial (#9 in your rankings) and Pinewood beat Salesian...

so how is Centennial ahead of PW?????

and wasn't Incarnate Word Academy a top 10 team (in some publications) when PW beat them in Hawaii???

at this point I guess results on the court don't matter anymore as CTK is 4-4 and STILL #15 in the country"


I'm not sure about and don't care about what motivation may or may not be behind rankings. But I'm definitely not into negative competition.
 
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Christ the King? Incarnate word, what did they do to get ranked in the top 25?

They have a lot of so call D1 players. And when you go to the game to watch them live they're so big they look intimidating.(Obviously real ballers know big doesn't automatically mean they can play). Unlike Pinewood who look like a freshman or JV unit. But that JV unit can play.

I think the way Bishop McNamara looks when you look at them and their so call D1 players it's what has them sitting at #1. That and the fact that appearance is what place them ( and others who look like them) in the high position they had at the initial preseason poll before they even played one game.

northbay,

The top part of your comment is what I'm agreeing to.

"Salesian beat Centennial (#9 in your rankings) and Pinewood beat Salesian...

so how is Centennial ahead of PW?????
I know the excuse Centennial might have, but they don't ask how they just know who won.

and wasn't Incarnate Word Academy a top 10 team (in some publications) when PW beat them in Hawaii???

at this point I guess results on the court don't matter anymore as CTK is 4-4 and STILL #15 in the country"
You left out formerly #2 Etiwanda losing the WCJ to Pinewood.


I'm not sure about and don't care about what motivation may or may not be behind rankings. But I'm definitely not into negative competition. Because there is more than enough success to go around. And even the great and the so call best don't always win it all.

That said one thing I also agree with you and that is Pinewood should be ranked higher than they presently are. And I wouldn't be surprised if a few higher ranked teams (#1 included) eventually fall. As several other teams may be ranked too high. A lot of guess work goes into it. And sometimes we all guess wrong for many reasons.

Neither poll is IMO totally right. But I think the Max Prep computer does a better job of getting it right than the Max Prep humans IMO....http://www.maxpreps.com/polls/girls-basketball/xcellent25.htm

Funny..... Looks like some changes to the Max Prep human and computer polls took place just after I posted this. I put together my own poll. You can find it here on Norcalprep. Titled "Girls basketball Nation's top30. "
 
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First, I don't really know who Alex Carbonel is, and I don't coach with the Cal Stars (except in a spring rec league with sixth graders who sign up through Ultimate Fieldhouse in Walnut Creek). I saw the Cal Stars Elite team play once this year, in Rocklin.

Doc and I get along well, and to reference one of the points made, I don't think he cares that much about national rankings -- which is fine. Many programs don't, and don't tailor their schedules for rankings, which is also fine. Doc has never said a word to me about national rankings, and my impression is he really doesn't care that much about them. If he did, he knows what he needs to do, which is travel, and he's told me he doesn't like to travel. (I don't like to travel either, so I'm with him.)

I basically do the national rankings for MaxPreps, though I connect with contacts around the country. My name is on them, and I own them (for whatever they're worth).

Salesian did beat Centennial, my mistake, and here's one time knowing too much hurts: In that win, in the first round of the Nike TOC, Centennial coach Karen Weitz benched her best player and three other D-1 players for being consistently late. Of course the scoreboard doesn't lie, so that's a win for Salesian over a top 10 team. My bad ... and Pinewood beat Salesian, so indirectly, Pinewood gets some credit there.

But still, "doing more with less" implies "doing more" -- and that would be beating another team in the top 25 head-to-head, which Pinewood has not done. There are a lot of undefeated teams around the country with not much talent, and they also have done "more with less" -- should they be ranked too? Or only Pinewood?

Now if Pinewood had gone to the Nike TOC, or the Crescom, or Title IX, and beaten two or three teams with multiple Power 5 girls and multiple D-1s, then indeed they would be doing more with less. As I see it, Pinewood is beating quality teams that are about its level, and not necessarily by large margins. Pinewood lacks a true post, and is small up and down the lineup. They are well coached, play great defense, can shoot well, and play smart, all to their credit. But truthfully, there are a lot of teams around the country that fit that description.

Still Pinewood is deservedly in the top 25, and presumably will stay there until deep into the California postseason, given the relatively weak upcoming schedule. Realistically, it's a two- or three-game season, with Mitty and the SoCal champ the only potentially elite opponents they will play that they haven't already beaten. If they win those games, and finish unbeaten, the top ten seems likely, and maybe the top five. But the resume is really a little thin for that rarefied ranking ... though again, I don't think Doc really cares that much about it.
 
YES!!!

Salesian beat Centennial (#9 in your rankings) and Pinewood beat Salesian...

so how is Centennial ahead of PW?????

and wasn't Incarnate Word Academy a top 10 team (in some publications) when PW beat them in Hawaii???

at this point I guess results on the court don't matter anymore as CTK is 4-4 and STILL #15 in the country


to be perfectly honest Ive been holding off in getting in on this discussion as I thought Clay would come to his senses...

but I think...


MY NEXT POINT NEEDS TO BE MADE


I really don't want to accuse Clay on any rankings bias/dislike/prejudice BUT....as I read his takes and scratch my head I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that there may be more at play with the rankings that meets the eye.

Everyone knows Clay is at MM and a big part of Cal Stars. And we all know how successful the Cal Stars top program has been over the last decade and how they routinely draw stud girls from not only the entire state but the entire west coast.

Well last yrs squad was not at the usual level of excellence and was not even the best AAU team in California.

THAT honor fell to Team Taurasi.....

and lo and behold who is the head coach at Team Taurasi????

PW assistant coach Alex Carbonel....

sour grapes???

or maybe just don't want to give PW the recognition they deserve because of fear that will be used to recruit girls this next AAU season?

We all know how cutthroat hi level HS basketball is in the AAU world.

And the coaching staffs don't like each other from the 2 programs....in fact let me rephrase that......

THEY DESPISE EACH OTHER


so just one mans take on the PW rankings issue....take it for what its worth


Here are the ESPN rankings: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...powerrankings?week=4&rankingId=28&season=2018

Absent is Pinewood. Any Conspiracy theory here? As a huge Pinewood supporter and one that has been bounding on this keyboard for them to be nationally ranked, I don't think it is some conspiracy theory.

Congratulations to Pinewood on making the Xcellent 25. The team has worked hard and overcome a lot of adversity over the last few years.
 
Here are the ESPN rankings: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...powerrankings?week=4&rankingId=28&season=2018

Absent is Pinewood. Any Conspiracy theory here? As a huge Pinewood supporter and one that has been bounding on this keyboard for them to be nationally ranked, I don't think it is some conspiracy theory.

Congratulations to Pinewood on making the Xcellent 25. The team has worked hard and overcome a lot of adversity over the last few years.

straightline50,

It really depends on the list because there are several. Here is where I rank Pinewood and the nation.......https://norcalpreps.forums.rivals.com/threads/girls-basketball-nations-top-30.20742/
 
First, I don't really know who Alex Carbonel is, and I don't coach with the Cal Stars (except in a spring rec league with sixth graders who sign up through Ultimate Fieldhouse in Walnut Creek). I saw the Cal Stars Elite team play once this year, in Rocklin.

Doc and I get along well, and to reference one of the points made, I don't think he cares that much about national rankings -- which is fine. Many programs don't, and don't tailor their schedules for rankings, which is also fine. Doc has never said a word to me about national rankings, and my impression is he really doesn't care that much about them. If he did, he knows what he needs to do, which is travel, and he's told me he doesn't like to travel. (I don't like to travel either, so I'm with him.)

I basically do the national rankings for MaxPreps, though I connect with contacts around the country. My name is on them, and I own them (for whatever they're worth).

Salesian did beat Centennial, my mistake, and here's one time knowing too much hurts: In that win, in the first round of the Nike TOC, Centennial coach Karen Weitz benched her best player and three other D-1 players for being consistently late. Of course the scoreboard doesn't lie, so that's a win for Salesian over a top 10 team. My bad ... and Pinewood beat Salesian, so indirectly, Pinewood gets some credit there.

But still, "doing more with less" implies "doing more" -- and that would be beating another team in the top 25 head-to-head, which Pinewood has not done. There are a lot of undefeated teams around the country with not much talent, and they also have done "more with less" -- should they be ranked too? Or only Pinewood?

Now if Pinewood had gone to the Nike TOC, or the Crescom, or Title IX, and beaten two or three teams with multiple Power 5 girls and multiple D-1s, then indeed they would be doing more with less. As I see it, Pinewood is beating quality teams that are about its level, and not necessarily by large margins. Pinewood lacks a true post, and is small up and down the lineup. They are well coached, play great defense, can shoot well, and play smart, all to their credit. But truthfully, there are a lot of teams around the country that fit that description.

Still Pinewood is deservedly in the top 25, and presumably will stay there until deep into the California postseason, given the relatively weak upcoming schedule. Realistically, it's a two- or three-game season, with Mitty and the SoCal champ the only potentially elite opponents they will play that they haven't already beaten. If they win those games, and finish unbeaten, the top ten seems likely, and maybe the top five. But the resume is really a little thin for that rarefied ranking ... though again, I don't think Doc really cares that much about it.


over the last decade I have seen a certain grey haired gentleman coaching (while barefoot) numerous Cal Stars teams. So unless there is another coach who looks EXACTLY like CLAY I'm calling BS.

And I'm positive the CAL STARS brass knows EXACTLY who Alex C. is and who coaches the Team Taurasi program.

I guarantee George (Cal Storm) and Kelly (Cal Stars) are not having lunch together anytime soon.

I stand by my comment.....straight hatred between the 2 programs
 
by the way.....

Re: this entire concept of PW not playing enough out of state teams so their rankings reflect that.

Didn't a team from Texas (was it Duncanville?) a couple yrs back win the national title and
NEVER LEFT THE STATE OF TEXAS?

so why the sudden change? just saying.....
 
by the way.....

Re: this entire concept of PW not playing enough out of state teams so their rankings reflect that.

Didn't a team from Texas (was it Duncanville?) a couple yrs back win the national title and
NEVER LEFT THE STATE OF TEXAS?

so why the sudden change? just saying.....

northbaybbguru,

You must not forget everything in Texas is bigger. They are so big they claim that the best Basketball is in the state of Texas. So they feel like they don't have to leave. Some people have bought into that nonsense. That's why I rightfully place them where they belong on my poll right in the middle at #15.

And rankings are much like the Music Billboard chart. There is a little bias influence because record companies have an interest in ( sales) who they shove down the consumers throat. Major Labels even often meet to discuss best release dates so top artist can gain the max sales without canceling each other out. It appears many of the basketball rankings are influenced by the number of so call D1 players a team has. Because I think the goal is to help college scouts know who and where to look for players. At least that's what seems to make the most sense to me.

And lets face it, Pinewood is typically not loaded with a high number of D1 players.
 
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>over the last decade I have seen a certain grey haired gentleman coaching (while barefoot) numerous Cal Stars teams. So unless there is another coach who looks EXACTLY like CLAY I'm calling BS.

OK, I hate to keep going over this, but ...

Several years ago, I spent two springs and summers coaching sixth and seventh grade teams for Cal Stars. I wasn't all that good, and I disliked the travel. I never played against or saw Team Taurasi (and I still don't know who Alex Carbonel is).

The last two years, I have coached a recreational level team for Cal Stars that plays in a league run by MVP sports. We have amassed three wins in those seasons, and though we played a couple local tournaments the first year, after losing a game 44-0 it was decided it was not a good idea to send girls who had never played before and/or never played together against organized teams.

I am not a member of the Cal Stars' "brass," I don't go to tryouts, I don't even know which teams the Miramonte girls are on, and I see the teams play once a year. It is true that the older teams practice at Ultimate Fieldhouse on occasion, which is where my rec league girls practice, so it's possible the "brass" and I are in the same building, but I have never watched one of the traveling Cal Stars' teams practice there.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but my connection with the top Cal Stars teams is so tenuous as to be non-existent, and to accuse me of bias because of this imaginary connection does bother me. I don't claim my rankings are perfect, and there are many mistakes, but they are not because of anything to do with Cal Stars.
 
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