This new competitive equity brackets should be interesting to say the least. Anyone have a clue on how it will work? I only see 6 Legit Open teams. Salesian, O'dowd, Sheldon, MC, Capital Christian & Bellarmine. Where does a University & Menlo go? Both would be heavy favorites to win D4 & D5 if last year's model were used. D5 will be made up of the whole Northern section minus Pleasant Valley and other D5's that don't make the finals. A team like Mitty barely made the playoffs but have found their stride now. If they win CCS Open do they go to Norcals as an Open team? Most of the teams are set, now the 1-88 ranking is left up to CIF.
Norcals
- Thread starter RJ223
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The NCS D1 champ will garner serious consideration for the Open. Whoever wins out between CVC (26-2), Dublin (25-4), Heritage (26-2) or Berkeley (23-5) may not be a high seed, but they will have earned it. They have taken all 8 in the past couple of years. In the past, teams had to meet certain criteria to be placed in the Open, unless they opt in. I'm assuming that is still the case, but don't know if any of those 4 meet the criteria. It's not like D1 will be a picnic without the Open teams, as all the top teams that don't make the Open will theoretically be in the D1 field. That 16 team bracket should be brutal.
Agree with Observer. One of those NCS teams has to get pulled up. They've had a great season and are worthy. What about Folsom out of the SJS? If they get to the Finals of SJS or even win it do you have 4 teams from SJS D1 going? I've seen them play a lot this year. At times look like an open team but at others barely squeak by Oak Ridge. I would personally like see them in D1 but who knows....
I don't think anybody is getting by Bishop Monty or Sierra Canyon in the south though. Bishop Monty just lost in 2OT's to Sierra Canyon. (first loss of year and #3 in Nation).
I don't think anybody is getting by Bishop Monty or Sierra Canyon in the south though. Bishop Monty just lost in 2OT's to Sierra Canyon. (first loss of year and #3 in Nation).
So my question with the new competitive equity deal is what happens to teams that lost first or 2nd round. Such as Amador, De La Salle, College Park or even Logan. Do they have a chance of making a lower division? De La Salle should still get in D1 NorCals but not sure how the 1-88 works? Someone please enlighten me.
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MoneyTeam, your guess is as good as mine on the competitive equity deal...
Just in general, it looks like a genuine attempt to have more close games (especially in the early rounds), but on specifics, as far as I can see, they're NOT specific.
I do hope they don't let large schools play in lower divisions. Imagine, say, um... Newark Memorial playing in D4, or Miramonte playing in D5. Those totally fictional (I hope) examples just wouldn't be right, nor the least bit fair to legit small-school participants.
Just in general, it looks like a genuine attempt to have more close games (especially in the early rounds), but on specifics, as far as I can see, they're NOT specific.
I do hope they don't let large schools play in lower divisions. Imagine, say, um... Newark Memorial playing in D4, or Miramonte playing in D5. Those totally fictional (I hope) examples just wouldn't be right, nor the least bit fair to legit small-school participants.
From what I heard from a friend of mine who is on the CIF basketball tourney board:
1- Each section will rank all of their "automatic qualifiers" for Nor-Cal regional in order of best to worse. Auto Qualifiers are the 4 teams that reached the Semi-Finals. So that will mean 4 teams per division, per section. (unless section has rules to only submit 2 teams)
2- Each section will also submit a list of 10-15 backfill teams (non automatic qualifiers) that are also ranked in order from best to worse. if spots become open in divisions based on Open or Competitive Equity the back fill teams will get consideration
3- CIF Tourney Committee will take lists from all sections and begin with the Open division and place teams in brackets based on committee debate. Top 8 will be open (no more requirements for open teams), following 16 will be D1, Next 16 will be D2 and so on.
So in theory a team like Redwood who was in NCS D2 could end up in D3 Nor-Cal, and also a team like University could end up in D3 or D2.
Also a team like St. Joe's could end up D2, D3 or D1 depending on how they finish and how all the other teams from the other sections finish also.
This is gonna be crazy if done like this. Lots to talk about after brackets are published.
1- Each section will rank all of their "automatic qualifiers" for Nor-Cal regional in order of best to worse. Auto Qualifiers are the 4 teams that reached the Semi-Finals. So that will mean 4 teams per division, per section. (unless section has rules to only submit 2 teams)
2- Each section will also submit a list of 10-15 backfill teams (non automatic qualifiers) that are also ranked in order from best to worse. if spots become open in divisions based on Open or Competitive Equity the back fill teams will get consideration
3- CIF Tourney Committee will take lists from all sections and begin with the Open division and place teams in brackets based on committee debate. Top 8 will be open (no more requirements for open teams), following 16 will be D1, Next 16 will be D2 and so on.
So in theory a team like Redwood who was in NCS D2 could end up in D3 Nor-Cal, and also a team like University could end up in D3 or D2.
Also a team like St. Joe's could end up D2, D3 or D1 depending on how they finish and how all the other teams from the other sections finish also.
This is gonna be crazy if done like this. Lots to talk about after brackets are published.
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ClayK commented on this on the girls side. Sounds like a cluster.
“One major issue is the same committee is doing boys and girls, north and south, divisions I through VI. That's 400 teams to seed in a single day, and there are no set criteria.
They will start with the Open, but by the time they get to the lower divisions, fatigue will have set in. If they want to be done by 6 p.m., and start at 8 a.m., they can talk about each team for 1.5 minutes (not including general discussion, criteria, game times, locations, etc.).”
I assume they'll take two teams out of CCS Open division (Bellarmine and Mitty/or St Francis). Palo Alto is also worthy of consideration as they have an excellent shot at beating Mitty in the semis. I'm guessing that a NCS D1 team will be placed in the Open to round out the field.
I know... from my understanding this is where the backfill list will come into play to fill out brackets.
It's a mess.. Sad part is most coaches don't know exactly what's going on and have no clue who to prepare for. It would be nice to be able to scout ahead or set your preseason games to play these teams and get seeded ahead of someone by beating them. I have a bad feeling the committee will screws this up!
The challenge for the committee is enormous. Frankly, it could be beyond many of them.
AGREED!!!
when the #1 seed in D5 is the 73rd best team in Norcal (according to comp equity), and potentially a D2 or D3 school (student size wise) how can they be a state champ?
Everybody gets a trophy mindset run amok
STUPID
It is a real mess hopefully they don't water it down and fill to many slots with teams that have
No business being in norcal's. The state tournament should be the best of the best
I do agree as in year' past with the top teams going open it does allow for a few teams
to slide into norcal's which is cool.
No business being in norcal's. The state tournament should be the best of the best
I do agree as in year' past with the top teams going open it does allow for a few teams
to slide into norcal's which is cool.
Auto Qualifiers vary from Section to Section.
Oakland and San Francisco Sections have 2 Auto Qualifiers. These teams will probably be put in the Divisions 3, 4, & 5.
Northern Section has 12 Auto Qualifiers. Division 3 has 2 Auto Qualifiers, Divisions 4 & 5 have 4 Auto Qualifiers, and Divisions 6 & 7 have 1 Auto Qualifier. At least, that is how I think they are assigned, I could be wrong.
North Coast Section has 24 Auto Qualifiers. 4 for each division, with additional teams for teams promoted to the OPEN Division.
Sac-Joaquin Section has 22 Auto Qualifiers. 4 for divisions 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5, with additional teams for teams promoted to the OPEN Division. 2 Auto Qualifiers for Division 6.
Central Coast Section has 20 Auto Qualifiers. 4 for divisions 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5. C.C.S. OPEN Division teams take 8 of these Auto Qualifiers. After those teams are decided, this season here is how the rest of the Auto Qualifiers are assigned.
Division 1 Section Champion and 3 teams from OPEN Division (CCS could replace Bellarmine, after they are selected for the OPEN Division, with the Runner Up team.)
Division 2 Section Champion and 3 teams from OPEN Division
Division 3 Section Champion, Runner Up, and 1 team from OPEN Division (CCS could add a 4th team, if they wanted to)
Division 4 Section Champion, Runner Up, and 1 team from OPEN Division (CCS could add a 4th team, if they wanted to)
Division 5 4 Semi Final teams.
That is 79 to 82 teams.
There will be 6 to 9 At Large teams selected.
Here are the teams I propose apply for the At Large berths;
Lincoln (Stockton)
Piedmont Hills / Los Gatos if either team loses in the Semi Finals or the Championship game
Amador Valley
Sacramento
James Logan
Woodcreek
Monte Vista (Danville)
then 1 or 2 other teams will get in thru the At Large process.
@ARHS Stats thats a orettt nice breakdown i think College Park will apply also. De La Salle should get in because winner of d1 will get pulled up
Not sure teams that lose in the 1st round can get in. Reaching the 2nd round is a qualification and they would consider all of those teams before any team that lost in the first round regardless of record. I could be wrong though.
There is no qualifications for an at large big. That’s why it’s called at large I’m sure. For instance Logan beat Monte Vista head to head and Monte Vista beat AV head to head. I see Logan beat Tracy who beat Lincoln and Moreau who beat Woodcreek so how do you overlook that.
@MoneyTeam0115 is it your opinion that any of the 3 teams you listed AV,MV or Logan
actually deserve a spot in norcal's or that any of those teams would even be a factor
In norcal's?
actually deserve a spot in norcal's or that any of those teams would even be a factor
In norcal's?
It’s not about my opinion. I don’t thjnk it’s fair if they have to go down a division and play against smaller schools. I think NCS bombed the seedings. I think if AV was a 6 seed and Logan was a 5 seed maybe would’ve changed the outlook of the quarter finals and maybe semis. But i also think Sf section and Oakland sections deserve to go straight to NorCal. I think Av, MV, and Logan could beat all teams playing in ccs division 1 semis. That’s why I’m sure they came up with this competitive equity. @bones40
You never know with NorCals. Everyone had Dublin winning D1. They lost to a Palo Alto team, that was losing the whole game to Fremont High of Oakland till late, and almost beat Logan but Logan made a late run. I was at that game and Palo Alto dominated most of that game
If teams have to make the Quarter Finals in the North Coast and Sac-Joaquin sections to apply for a At Large Berth, then the last At Large Berth may be filled by Tamalpais from the NCS Division 2 Bracket, and placed in the NorCal Division 4 Bracket, and if allowed become high seeded team in the Division 4 Bracket.
Lincoln (Stockton), Sacramento, and James Logan are all good teams that lost in the first round of the playoffs.
Lincoln (Stockton), Sacramento, and James Logan are all good teams that lost in the first round of the playoffs.
How are they going to rank the "at large" teams?
Imagine AV, James Logan or Monte Vista being slotted in division 4 or 5!!!!!
Why even use the enrollment divisions for the section titles? Each section should rank the teams prior to the section playoffs. That would make more sense.
Imagine AV, James Logan or Monte Vista being slotted in division 4 or 5!!!!!
Why even use the enrollment divisions for the section titles? Each section should rank the teams prior to the section playoffs. That would make more sense.
GUYS....Amador,DLS,CP and Logan had their chance, but they were knocked off...Any chance of any of these moving to D1 should be out....DLS was stopped by an aggressive Berkeley team and was sent packing, so they should be planning on next year. As this year should be over....
No Division 6 teams do not get into the Top 88. The Division 6 Tournament is a NorCal only tournament.
I was just trying to explain where all the Automatic Entries are coming from in each section.
Ok just looked up the cif website. But it looks like you counted the D6 automatic entries toward the 79-82 auto qualifiers for the 88. They have to be backed out because they have their own D6 bracket. That leaves more spots for at large teams in d1-d5.
I'll solve this very simply. 3 Divisions.
If your team has a player or players that are signed/committed to a D1 college program or appear in any ESPN300 or Rivals rankings board, your team is in the Open division. Both private and public schools apply here.
If you dont have any such player(s) on your team. 2nd Division: Private school division regardless of school enrollment size.
Last division, same as 2nd Division, but all Public schools.
There you go. Thats competitive equity in the simplest form.
If your team has a player or players that are signed/committed to a D1 college program or appear in any ESPN300 or Rivals rankings board, your team is in the Open division. Both private and public schools apply here.
If you dont have any such player(s) on your team. 2nd Division: Private school division regardless of school enrollment size.
Last division, same as 2nd Division, but all Public schools.
There you go. Thats competitive equity in the simplest form.
I really don't get it. The divisions are what they are. If your D1 or D5 in your section you should be D1 or D5 in state. Do the open division, fine. But the others are what they are. It's not freaking rocket science! If anything were to change it should be private schools and public schools being separated. But that's a whole nother convo!
Oakland and San Francisco Sections will each have two automatic qualifiers.
The two section finalists advance...the winner should have a first round home game and the runner-up travels..
This is the best solution that I have seen. The CIF could even expand the number of teams in each tournament so they do not lose any part of their gate.
SF Section / AAA has gotten two qualifiers (winner and runner up). Oakland used to just get the winner, but I've seen two in recent years. I'd guess that since the NorCal is going to 16 teams, might as well take more teams.
Based on what I've seen in the AAA this year, no one else besides the top two should qualify. The question is "who's the top two?" Mission is by far the best team. I thought Lowell would be #2 but they have a tough matchup against KIPP tomorrow night. KIPP may not be as disciplined as Lowell but they got some players with length and athletic ability. Lowell vs Mission in the AAA final would likely be the same story as last year (plus the F/S final Monday). Mission wants to play pressure D while Lowell walks it up. If KIPP gets into the final, the game may be a high scoring affair.
Competitive equity is a toughie. IN THEORY, each bracket should be super competitive and the teams winning their NorCal division will have earned it. This is the first year so let's see if we have a lot of blowout games in the first round.
In girls volleyball, the slotting hurt the small schools (Lick / University) who were slotted up and upset early. But for the AAA, Lowell (D2) and Lincoln (D3) did well. Lowell won their first round match and lost a tough second round match. Lincoln made it to the state final before losing. I'd have to look at the other schools and see who the winners were and if the new setup helped or not.
In girls volleyball, the slotting hurt the small schools (Lick / University) who were slotted up and upset early. But for the AAA, Lowell (D2) and Lincoln (D3) did well. Lowell won their first round match and lost a tough second round match. Lincoln made it to the state final before losing. I'd have to look at the other schools and see who the winners were and if the new setup helped or not.
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