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Rankings and Realignment

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Norcal_Fan

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Aug 13, 2001
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I was looking at the ranking on MP today and some of these really don't make sense. You have a lot of schools in each division ranked VERY high with a VERY soft schedule. I wonder how much SOS comes into play. Lets say you have a team 20-6 with a 3.0 strength of schedule or another team 16-10 with an 18. Which do you pick and why? Just something I found odd and maybe the reason CIF went away from MP and chose crapbooklive.

In regards to the whole SJND debacle, I was looking at the Tri-County league and noticed that three catholic school and three public schools in that league. Im not a geography major, but why doesn't the League open it up and take out the publics and add Carondelet, BOD, Moreau and SJND? It would be the equivalent of the WCAL. I've heard on here that travel time is one of the concerns...you don't think that SHP loves traveling to valley christian or Mitty? They are long road trips but it works. Thoughts?
 
Norcal_Fan said:
I was looking at the ranking on MP today and some of these really don't make sense. You have a lot of schools in each division ranked VERY high with a VERY soft schedule. I wonder how much SOS comes into play. Lets say you have a team 20-6 with a 3.0 strength of schedule or another team 16-10 with an 18. Which do you pick and why? Just something I found odd and maybe the reason CIF went away from MP and chose crapbooklive.

In regards to the whole SJND debacle, I was looking at the Tri-County league and noticed that three catholic school and three public schools in that league. Im not a geography major, but why doesn't the League open it up and take out the publics and add Carondelet, BOD, Moreau and SJND? It would be the equivalent of the WCAL. I've heard on here that travel time is one of the concerns...you don't think that SHP loves traveling to valley christian or Mitty? They are long road trips but it works. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

There was a Catholic Athletic League (CAL) that the WCAL actually spun off from that included Salesian, St. Mary’s of Berkeley, De La Salle, Bishop O’Dowd, St. Elizabeth, St. Joes, and I’m sure I’m missing someone. This was before girls athletics became more of a consideration. Anyway, the NCS didn’t like the arrangement, and some time during the mid to late 80s decided to abolish it and decreed there could not be a league split by religion, and they were all thrown back in with the public schools. This is about the time De La Salle starting winning every game in football.

The Colonel is the resident expert on the old CAL and formation of the WCAL, so hopefully he’ll weigh in with some more details.
 
observer22 said:
There was a Catholic Athletic League (CAL) that the WCAL actually spun off from that included Salesian, St. Mary’s of Berkeley, De La Salle, Bishop O’Dowd, St. Elizabeth, St. Joes, and I’m sure I’m missing someone. This was before girls athletics became more of a consideration. Anyway, the NCS didn’t like the arrangement, and some time during the mid to late 80s decided to abolish it and decreed there could not be a league split by religion, and they were all thrown back in with the public schools. This is about the time De La Salle starting winning every game in football.

The Colonel is the resident expert on the old CAL and formation of the WCAL, so hopefully he’ll weigh in with some more details.
Click to expand...

I understand the history of the league, but now that both boys and girls sports have become bigger factors when picking the "right" school, and in the day and age of competitive equity, it makes total sense. All of these schools play by the same rules. A lot of times (it seems) that the NCS and it's school administrators are not in it for what's best for athletics.

Imagine this league

St. Pats
Salesian
SMB
C-Let/DLS
BOD
SJND
Moreau

That would be a powerhouse league.
 
observer22 said:
There was a Catholic Athletic League (CAL) that the WCAL actually spun off from that included Salesian, St. Mary’s of Berkeley, De La Salle, Bishop O’Dowd, St. Elizabeth, St. Joes, and I’m sure I’m missing someone. This was before girls athletics became more of a consideration. Anyway, the NCS didn’t like the arrangement, and some time during the mid to late 80s decided to abolish it and decreed there could not be a league split by religion, and they were all thrown back in with the public schools. This is about the time De La Salle starting winning every game in football.

The Colonel is the resident expert on the old CAL and formation of the WCAL, so hopefully he’ll weigh in with some more details.
Click to expand...

Good news for all of you devoted papal history buffs: The WCAL website has a section titled "History." The old CAL is thoroughly discussed.
 
Each sport for a mythical East Catholic Athletic League would be a separate case, for both boys and girls. Football would be a significant issue. So would a range of other boys' sports. Same goes for girls. Basketball is one thing, volleyball, softball, swimming, track and field, etc. are quite another. The WCAL girls are not really thriving. Sacred Heart Prep left the league some years ago; Notre Dame-Belmont did so recently. There are just six girls' programs left. There are rumors that Presentation may depart too. CCS is unique in NorCal, with not one but two private/parochial leagues, the WCAL and the WBAL. There is strong CCS public school antipathy directed at the private/parochials.
 
Norcal_Fan said:
I understand the history of the league, but now that both boys and girls sports have become bigger factors when picking the "right" school, and in the day and age of competitive equity, it makes total sense. All of these schools play by the same rules. A lot of times (it seems) that the NCS and it's school administrators are not in it for what's best for athletics.

Imagine this league

St. Pats
Salesian
SMB
C-Let/DLS
BOD
SJND
Moreau

That would be a powerhouse league.
Click to expand...

I’d be all for it. And I’d also add CN and Marin Catholic.
 
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I think youd have to split the league into 2 divisions... a north and a south as the travel for CN to some of the teams further south would be difficult.

North
CN
Marin C
SMB
SALESIAN
SPSV

South
CLET/DLS
BOD
Moreau C
SJND

And maybe have a Shaughnessy of 1north vs 2 south and visa versa with winners playing for title.
 
northbaybbguru said:
I think youd have to split the league into 2 divisions... a north and a south as the travel for CN to some of the teams further south would be difficult.

North
CN
Marin C
SMB
SALESIAN
SPSV

South
CLET/DLS
BOD
Moreau C
SJND

And maybe have a Shaughnessy of 1north vs 2 south and visa versa with winners playing for title.
Click to expand...

I like it.
 
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Just a thought...

Dont know what youd call the league.. maybe the NCCL ?(North Coast Catholic league )

And think of the potential of a 1 day shootout challenge of WCAL vs NCCL!!

How much fun would that be?!?!?
 
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I like the idea better than I thought I would, especially the north/south version, but the difficulty lies in the other sports. SJND fits in the BCL-East very well in most sports but would be overwhelmed facing BOD in volleyball, say. Moreau and Marin Catholic have not been at the level of the others in basketball recently, but they might do just fine in the other sports.

The travel time is a major, major issue, because again, we're talking many sports, many buses and many early dismissals. Soccer is a winter sport and if schools don't have lighted fields, games have to start at 3, pretty much.

And of course the cost of transportation is huge, and will not be offset by revenue.

What would be really good would be to have different leagues for different sports, but the complexity in that is off the charts ...
 
A four-school league? A five-school league? Probably not. CCS, for one, mandates a minimum of six schools. Not sure about NCS. Again, as noted before, the focus on one sport, basketball, is misleading.
 
colhenrylives said:
A four-school league? A five-school league? Probably not. CCS, for one, mandates a minimum of six schools. Not sure about NCS. Again, as noted before, the focus on one sport, basketball, is misleading.
Click to expand...

I haven't the slightest about BOD football or Moreau basetball or even SJND volleyball. Would it be fair to say that they're all catholic schools, thus similar and should be in the same league? Im sure that DLS would dominate this conference in many sports as would C-Let. To me this is definitely apples to apples and not just in basketball (but we're just talking about it now).
 
ClayK said:
I like the idea better than I thought I would, especially the north/south version, but the difficulty lies in the other sports. SJND fits in the BCL-East very well in most sports but would be overwhelmed facing BOD in volleyball, say. Moreau and Marin Catholic have not been at the level of the others in basketball recently, but they might do just fine in the other sports.

The travel time is a major, major issue, because again, we're talking many sports, many buses and many early dismissals. Soccer is a winter sport and if schools don't have lighted fields, games have to start at 3, pretty much.

And of course the cost of transportation is huge, and will not be offset by revenue.

What would be really good would be to have different leagues for different sports, but the complexity in that is off the charts ...
Click to expand...



This would have to be for basketball only. And we'd need to find a 5th team for the south.
 
SJND has about 450 students. Carondelet/DLS combine for 2000. O'Dowd is about 1,300.

To expect SJND to compete with schools four times its size, and better resources, in all sports is expecting way too much.
 
ClayK said:
SJND has about 450 students. Carondelet/DLS combine for 2000. O'Dowd is about 1,300.

To expect SJND to compete with schools four times its size, and better resources, in all sports is expecting way too much.
Click to expand...
Clay, I assume your point as well as keyword here is "all" sports; because isnt SJND private? As a point of comparison, Pinewood has around 300 kids from grade 7-12; and they seem to do just fine competing against pretty much every other team in the state in girls basketball :)
 
Pinewood in girls' basketball is obviously exceptional ... I have no idea about their other sports, but I'm guessing there aren't multiple state title banners on the wall. Size matters ...

To compete in multiple sports at a high level, you need a core of specialized athletes in each of those sports, with solid coaching, and then you need to fill out the rosters with good athletes who are, at most, playing two sports their junior and senior years. Small schools simply don't have those kinds of numbers.
 
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northbaybbguru said:
I thought of JS but unfortunately in basketball they would get massacred....(assuming realignment for basketball only)
Click to expand...

They’ve had some good teams in the past that could compete, but currently they’re struggling against the publics.
 
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