Tank you very much...and the awards go to

[jazzpt55]

I think we need

MVT Most Valuable Tank
BST Best Supporting Tank
and the lifetime award LVT

Everyone can vote.... awards not presented until March 29...because
you have to win your division or really embarrass yourself in some outstanding way
to deserve an award

#Tankon

 

[Willtalk]

What do the Awards consist off. Just a simple Tank-you. Or perhaps a full ride scholarship to Tank U. Do they also get gold plated models of a Sherman or perhaps a toilet Tank or will they just have to settle for a tie dyed tank top.

 

[jazzpt55]

Here you go....
or I forgot one
award the RVT the reverse tank for the team who tanked and still got punished and was placed in the
open....

The trophy...

 

[Garcia2]

As long as it's not another sTANKy medal. Maybe a nice plaque made of Pinewood.
I"ll take a scholarship to MIT and a TY.

MC Tank should sing " sh@t just got real. (Real song)

This post was edited on 3/8 8:20 PM by Garcia2

This post was edited on 3/8 8:21 PM by Garcia2

 

[ballersdreams]

I think Modesto Christian go the short end of the stick. How does the committee justify give them the 8 seed in the Open. I'm not saying they don't belong there but they won their section out right. I would think they would get the seat 5 because they won their Section. But we all know CIF always do something wacky each year this was one. I guess that the love they have for the SJS section. I think 5th seed that went to SI that lost to ESCP should have gotten 8th seed. No way SI belong in the 5th seed they deserve to lose there 3 game in a roll trying to get out of the open. That would have been the best punishment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nor Cal Scout]

BD- Way back in November you claimed the SJS was the strongest. I think the open selections proved you were way off. What are your thoughts now?

 

[Crusaders70]

Balllers, you kind of sound like a nut. Punishment for a high school basketball team?

 

[ruggy23]

........a better idea. How 'bout an award for the Most Annoying Message Board Troll ??

Polling would take just a few minutes......LoL !!

http://dunderfelt.com/pics/Do-not-feed-the-troll.PNG

R23

Don't feed the Troll

 

[jazzpt55]

No Tanks

 

[ballersdreams]

Jazzpt55

I think you made a new friend on here again. But tell me this Jazzpt55 are you going to push the lever down win they lose in the first round !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jazzpt55]

Yes if you tanked but lose
In round one we FedEx your
American Standard tank....

If you tanked and win a state
Championship you get the
European model with
The (bidet)warm water spray

This post was edited on 3/11 9:50 AM by jazzpt55

 

[Nor Cal Scout]

I don't think anyone tanked but I do think the open has provided a serious lack of incentive to go all in and go for the win. A lot of teams benefited by their lack of ability to get the big win.

 

[Streak One]

First, there is no tanking. How do build a program when even a shred of tanking gets into your game plan?

The tough part is to make a section title run, you need to play tough teams in the non-league and league. However, when you have that kind of schedule, it puts you on the short list when you win a section title.

I like the Open Division, but it needs tweaking. I would start with making each section have an "Open Division" and then make decisions off of that.

 

[jazzpt55]

Did you guys see that article
Clay posted about
Those schools in Tenn....

It happens
I like to think of it
As part of the game. ..

When a player goes out
The night before a game
And drinks or smokes...

That player tanked...
They made a decision
To not give 100 percent

People are human coaches
Are no different

 

[ClayK]

So here's a thought, courtesy of Kelly Sopak:

1) Every section has an Open Division championship if they want to compete for a state title.

2) The Open champions and runners-up (if you want) go into the NorCal Open

3) The NorCal Open winner plays the SoCal Open winner for the state title

4) All other divisions end with a Regional title. So if you don't make the Open, you can't win a California title; you can win a NorCal title, which is a very big accomplishment, but you can't be the California champion.

So now, the motivation shifts because only Open teams can put that state banner on the wall. (This also addresses the question of what does being a D4 state champion really mean.)

Teams might still want to avoid the Open, but I think, again courtesy of Kelly, that there should be a reward for making the NorCal Open. A big banner, for example, for every team that makes it, or maybe every game is televised. Something that makes it special to get to the Open that doesn't happen if you stay in your division.

The fundamental issue, really, is that there is now a reward for losing (a better shot at a state title), and that's what triggered the situation in Tennessee and leads to suspicions here.

 

[letsski]

If you're going to do away with division state titles, why don't you just hold a state tournament like the NCAAs? Take the top 32 from Nor Cal, top 32 from Southern Cal, seed them and have them play until there is one state champion.

You can still give awards for making the tournament, reaching the sweet sixteen, elite eight, final four, ect.

That way you have one true champion, yet there are still rewards for having a successful season. Plus there is zero incentive to lose a game to improve seeding.

Originally posted by ClayK:
So here's a thought, courtesy of Kelly Sopak:

1) Every section has an Open Division championship if they want to compete for a state title.

2) The Open champions and runners-up (if you want) go into the NorCal Open

3) The NorCal Open winner plays the SoCal Open winner for the state title

4) All other divisions end with a Regional title. So if you don't make the Open, you can't win a California title; you can win a NorCal title, which is a very big accomplishment, but you can't be the California champion.

So now, the motivation shifts because only Open teams can put that state banner on the wall. (This also addresses the question of what does being a D4 state champion really mean.)

Teams might still want to avoid the Open, but I think, again courtesy of Kelly, that there should be a reward for making the NorCal Open. A big banner, for example, for every team that makes it, or maybe every game is televised. Something that makes it special to get to the Open that doesn't happen if you stay in your division.

The fundamental issue, really, is that there is now a reward for losing (a better shot at a state title), and that's what triggered the situation in Tennessee and leads to suspicions here.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

Sorry Clay (and Kelly), but the main reason this won't work is that it involves only two state championship games instead of six. (Think revenue.) And it also still gives an incentive to lose, although less than the current system. (Example: If our team win this sectional Open semi-final game, we are likely to lose the final, and also likely to lose our first-round game in the state Open division. But if our team loses this sectional Open semi-final game, we are very likely to win the NorCal division championship.)

And just so that I don't sound like someone who doesn't like an idea but has nothing better to offer, I like the idea of a Tournament of Champions. I'd still like each section to have an Open division, but then all teams that qualify for regional playoffs would compete for the division state championships, like in the past. Once the state champions are crowned, the five champions and the three highest seeded runners up have a one week Tournament of Champions to crown the overall state champion.

I can't think of any incentive to lose in this scenario, and the revenue goal is met. There is the issue of extending the season by a week, so any school that wanted to opt out of the ToC would be allowed to. (We all know that NO TEAM WOULD EVER OPT OUT.) There's also the issue of excluding two state runners-up, but that's no worse than the current situation of pulling relatively weaker teams into the Open. Finally, to make the logistics work out, you would probably need to require that the ToC has four teams from the South and four from the North. This would be problematic if either region won all five state championships, but let's agree that's unlikely and could be worked out.

Anybody else like this idea?

 

[Box_out!]

Kelly has a great point. I also see just making the OPEN as crown jewel achievement. Once your in "any team can win". In my mind the top 8 seeds in the OPEN are the top teams in NorCal. They were invited to the big dance, for everyone else maybe next year. All OPEN teams should feel extremely accomplished. As of now BOD coach sits at the top as the only NorCal coach with the crown. I have no favorite and pull for the team/coach that makes all the correct moves to win. Be it NorCal or Socal. To me the OPEN is the second best tournament in the nation after NIKE TOC Joe Smith div.

I would love to see MD win being the first to win NIKE TOC and OPEN.

I would love to see SMS win the OPEN and possibly finish #1 in the nation.

I would love to see MM win the OPEN, Kelly proving he is the big man on the block.

I would love to see SHC win the OPEN proving even with lots of losses everything worked.

I would love to see MC pull the shocker.

I would love to see the Pinewood guru hang the OPEN banner.

I would love to see Salesian finish the job from last year.

I would love to see SMB win at home.

I would love to see SI prove they are the top team.

By no means am I on the band wagon but admire a great accomplishment.

 

[observer22]

I agree that each of the Open teams are the cream of the crop and should feel extremely accomplished with just getting there. Unlike the football Open which just has the top 2 teams and there may be some dispute as to if the better team even got in, here we have the top 8 teams in each half of the state battling it out for supremacy. Winning D1 or another division is still nice, but after removing the top 16 teams it is hard to consider that a true state championship. The Open champ is the ultimate goal.

 

[Box_out!]

From my perspective the CIF has created a NCAA format. The CIF Open is the NCAA D1, March Madness, Final Four Tournament. The top 16 teams get invited to the Big Dance.

For the rest there is the CIF divisional rounds or NIT, the NCAA D2 tournament, NCAA D3 tournament, & NAIA tournament. All are good tournaments but not the elite one. Every team that wins these tournaments will proudly hang these banners and rightfully so. But it's not the same as winning/hanging the NCAA D1 or CIF Open banner.

I think the mentality is different by everyone from the NCAA D1 to the CIF Open. The first year 2013 everyone said BC got hosed having to face BOD. I thought it was a great opportunity for BC to beat the eventual champ. This year some say MC got hosed, I feel it's a great opportunity. At least they made it to the "Dance". Just get in.

Lots of the NCAA history may run parrallel with the Open. No #16 seed has ever beaten a #1 seed. The lowest seed to ever win NCAA D1 is an #8 seed. Meaning in CIF Open no #8 may ever beat a #1. And no #5 and over has a great shot. But the difference is all NCAA D1 coaches/teams are still killing themselves to be at least a #16 seed. Not many NCAA D1 coaches/team jumping around when they were denied to the Big dance and have to go to the NIT.

Hopefully all CA HS coaches are doing what ever it takes just to be #8 seed. I do think MC did and were rewarded because once your in "anyone can win".

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

The CIF Open division and the NCAA tournament are different in almost every respect. First of all $$$$$$$$$$$. Schools love for their teams to get into the NCAA tournament because they get compensated very handsomely. Secondly, those teams getting the 13, 14, 15, and 16 seeds would not be competitive in the NIT tournament either. Better to get the big bucks for going to the NCAA.

Finally, I've been involved with kids whose teams played in the old-style division tournaments, and with kids who were on one-and-done teams in the new Open tournament. Night and day difference in outlook. Believe it or not, kids aren't stupid. They know when they have a reasonable chance for success, versus a situation where they can't win no matter how well they do. People on this board like to say "You have to beat the best to be the best." Horse hockey! The current system just results in a lot of good teams ending as losers, and several mediocre teams ending as winners.

And by the way, you might want to check your facts again. In the 1998 women's NCAA tournament, the #16 seed Harvard Crimson beat the #1 seed Stanford Cardinal 71 - 67.

 

[Box_out!]

Your definitely right about the money and I was talking about the mens side when I wrote NCAA history #8 seed Villanova 1985. And ouch #16 Harvard Crimson over #1 Stanford on the womens side. That was good knowledge.

In your opinion they end as "losers" IMO the are VIP's to an exclusive event. Winners, sometimes when you lose you still win gaining experience and confidence that they can compete vs the best. Lets take MM 2013 they lost to SMS in 2014 they beat them. Maybe MM should of lost early on in the season to win the divisional title?

Kids are very smart and learn things from adults and any kid around me will learn you always have a chance no matter what the odds. And losing is ok if you learn something and did your best but you fought till the last second.

 

[Box_out!]

And by the way, you might want to check your facts again. In the 1998 women's NCAA tournament, the #16 seed Harvard Crimson beat the #1 seed Stanford Cardinal 71 - 67.

SB- Your example, by the way is proof anyone can win. And we all know there's lots more examples. Miracle on ice etc.....

 

[ClayK]

A note on that Stanford loss: Two Stanford starting forwards hurt their knees the week before the tournament, and Allison Feaster then had the game of her life. Take two elite starters, one (Kristin Folkl) considered one of the best athletes in the country at the time and another (Lindsey Yamasaki) played in the WNBA, off any team a week before postseason, and I think upsets are pretty likely.

Revenue: TV contracts do play a big role so eliminating state championship games is unlikely until this contract runs out. But maybe if the Open were a bigger deal, maybe the Open semis could replace the title games. Realistically, of course, it won't happen because the state championship games sound better, even if they're not.

 

[Streak One]

I would love to see each section go to an Open Division format in section. I don't have a problem with 12 state champions because everyone knows what the ultimate title is. I would bring up the winner and runner-up from each of the SJS, NCS and CCS for a 6 team bracket.

This year, it could have been SHC, Pinewood, Miramonte, Salesian, St. Mary's Stockton and one team of McClatchy/Vanden/Modesto Christian.

 

[ClayK]

I agree that CCS, SJS and NCS should have Opens, but what about the Northern, San Francisco and Oakland sections?

My suggestion would be to leave the Northern Section as it is and add the SF and Oakland section champions to the mix you mentioned for an eight-team bracket.

 

[Willtalk]

I am totally shocked and aghast at how some of you seem to have totally lost perspective by hijacking a thread dealing with an important issue purely to discuss something as frivolous as the Open Championships. All of you should be banned from posting on NorCal Preps forever.

Reestablishing priorities lets get back to discussing "The Tank Awards Show". The awards should be Gold Plated Tankards handed out by-- the one and only -- Lori Petty ( Tank Girl ).