OK, now that we have seen what the NorCal tourney looks like and the results are in as the CIF finals loom, would love to see someone with objective views and sound knowledge take a stab at re-seeding the entire NorCal playoff field, from the Open Division all the way down to Division V. Use competitive equity as the guiding principle. Let's see the result.
Time to re-seed
- Thread starter colhenrylives
- Start date
Well, let's start.
Pinewood is now the No.1 seed in the Open Division and Mitty is No.2. SHC should be seeded somewhere in the Open as well. Not sure who to bounce out altogether. Probably Folsom which would make them No.1 in Division I and make the Open all private/parochial as it should be. Miramonte gets moved up two notches in Division I to No2. That's a start. You can see where this is going. Anyone else even remotely interested after all of the earlier complaining? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
Pinewood is now the No.1 seed in the Open Division and Mitty is No.2. SHC should be seeded somewhere in the Open as well. Not sure who to bounce out altogether. Probably Folsom which would make them No.1 in Division I and make the Open all private/parochial as it should be. Miramonte gets moved up two notches in Division I to No2. That's a start. You can see where this is going. Anyone else even remotely interested after all of the earlier complaining? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
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colonel, colonel, colonel. equating willingness to complain with willingness to re-seed 96 teams, 1-96? with the ability to plead lack of "objective views and sound knowledge" as an excuse? good luck. now, more complaining, I could see that coming...
Let's leave the seedings just the way they are LOL. When I said BOD and SHC should be ranked higher than schools like Heritage, and Bear Creek everyone said their win loss record shouldn't have them in the top 25 at all. The close games they lost to all of the OPEN teams is why SHC didn't get into the OPEN. If the teams with great records who haven't played anybody don't get ranked so high early then maybe that will help balance the parity at the end. No credit was given to the WCAL then we look up in the post season and that league represented it's self VERY WELL.
As did Pinewood, who was pretty much an afterthought heading to the Open, when all the talk was about Mitty and SMS.
I also said Mitty could lose because they will hit their stride early and all the other teams would get better and catch up later. Mitty has never won the OPEN and always loses in the end. As odd as it may Sound they may have their best chance to win the OPEN next year having to play more as a team rather than rely on 2-3 main players. SHC played them tough the second time around and everyone overlooked that game. That was a sign that they were in trouble and not getting better as a team. It’s hard to develop when your beating everyone by 40.
It's also hard to keep up the momentum when your starting center -- and D-1 recruit -- goes down with an ACL in the last regular season game.
It's one thing when a player gets hurt before the season, or even midway through the season. There's time to adjust, both in practice and in games. But Mitty lost Nicole Blakes and immediately had to jump into the playoffs -- and even though they won easily at times, they still really were trying to figure things out.
Obviously, I'm not taking anything away from SHC, as they have played very well at the most important time, nor from Pinewood, but still ... let's just say Klara Astrom tore her ACL in the last regular season game. How well could Pinewood have adjusted?
It's one thing when a player gets hurt before the season, or even midway through the season. There's time to adjust, both in practice and in games. But Mitty lost Nicole Blakes and immediately had to jump into the playoffs -- and even though they won easily at times, they still really were trying to figure things out.
Obviously, I'm not taking anything away from SHC, as they have played very well at the most important time, nor from Pinewood, but still ... let's just say Klara Astrom tore her ACL in the last regular season game. How well could Pinewood have adjusted?
Never have won the Open???? they won the NorCal open last year by beating Cardinal Newman by 24. Pinewood will be the team to beat next year. Mitty will have the best player in the state but, Pinewood will have the best team.
You saying this proves a point..the best team doesn't alway win!
Good luck to PW and and all the Norcal teams!You saying this proves a point..the best team doesn't alway win!
the only point I was making was that Mitty had previously won the NorCal Open. I congratulate PW. They played a better game. You are correct, the better team doesn't always win. Mitty had won the previous seven meetings. PW wins a classical triple overtime game. I think we're fortunate to see very high caliber girls basketball here in NorCal.
SHC played them tough before the ACL injury so I think the momentum was already slowing down. Everyone rants and raves about Mitty's program (rightfully so) and how all 3 levels went undefeated and about their supporting cast so the next woman up mindset doesn't seem that impossible. Losing Astrom and replacing her with what Pinwood has on the bench is a little different than replacing Blakes with the players that Mitty has coming off the bench.
OPEN Nor Cal and OPEN state championship are 2 completely different things. Again they have never won the OPEN!
We can't say who will have the best team and who won't until the games are played. I wouldn't sleep in Salesian who has 7 juniors coming back and lose maybe 1 senior and who beat Pinewood this year. Idk if Pinewood is the team to beat. Mitty will definitely have the best player and if their supporting cast develops maybe a better over all team then they had this year.
I believe that Mitty is graduating the one player that made their team roll and that was Ortiz. Each player on that team is truly a better player because of her. Ortiz will be the player that will missed and not sure Mitty has a player of that capability to do what she did on the floor.
There’s nothing wrong with a difference in opinion. IMO Blake’s was the engine. Being the best post on the floor night in and out, leading the team in rebounding and shot blocking not to mention all the shots she changed and giving them a post presence on offense and defense. Ortiz is solid but Blake’s was the glue IMO
SHC can match up with any of those teams and that's the biggest difference. I watched SHC play Mitty that second time around and the game was close until the middle of the 4th quarter. The first game of the season against St. Mary's was a 1 point game at the half. At this time of the year SHC could compete with any of those teams. They are deep and playing good TEAM basketball right now.
Best of luck to SHC this weekend, given the fact they graduate 5 of their top 6 scorers this year they could be looking at a rebuild over the next couple of seasons.
When SHC lost Imari Thomas everyone said this year was supposed to be a rebuilding year
, lol. Good programs don't rebuild they maintain. 3 state championship trips in the last 6 years has to put the program up there with the best of them I think. They might even be better next year than they were this year. That won't be hard when looking at their record, right? They have at least 6 players coming back, another who sat out the year due to injury and a couple JV players that will be ready to contribute. It may have taken them awhile to figure it out this year but one thing to take note of is they are on this run as a team. No one player is carrying the load. This is also helping develop those players returning next year. One thing for sure is the Nor Cal title will be up for grabs. Let's not forget a lot of other teams will lose more also. It's pretty much the end of an era for SMS, MM loses a stud pg, Mitty loses 2 VERY good pieces which will make them normal again, Pinewood loses a very good pg, ESP loses their best player, and who knows what's going to happen with C-Let.
I honestly think they will be a better team next year than they are this year. They might not get off to the same start but by the end of the year next year they could be scary.
Actually Haley Jones led the team in rebounds (10), followed by Ortiz (8.4), and then Blake’s (6.6).
Actually, neither one of those players played the post so how can they lead the team in rebounds from the post position?
The open era allows us to ask the question, how many open CIF wins does SHC have in the last six years? Great accomplishment getting to the state championships but when the top 8 teams are eliminated each year due to the open IT DOES water down the field. The northern open championships have been won by six different schoolsWhen SHC lost Imari Thomas everyone said this year was supposed to be a rebuilding year
Let's not forget a lot of other teams will lose more also. It's pretty much the end of an era for SMS, MM loses a stud pg, Mitty loses 2 VERY good pieces which will make them normal again, Pinewood loses a very good pg, ESP loses their best player, and who knows what's going to happen with C-Let.
2018 Pinewood over Mitty
2017 Mitty over Cardinal Newman
2016 Miramonte over Pinewood
2015 SM Stockton over Miramonte
2014 Salesian over Miramonte
2013 Bishop O'Dowd over SM Stockton
Another interesting note that the #1 seed has reached the finals 4 of the 6 years but has only won the championship 3 of the 6 years.
Please don't come at me with hate. what your daughter and her team have accomplished is impressive and you and her should cherish the moment and not let anyone take it away from you. The top teams in the state are in the open division and everyone knows that. There are seven teams, well six since Carondelet withdrew that could have a D1 state championship.
In the OPEN Nor Cal that answer would be none. No team has multiple wins either. CIF makes the rules and dictates who plays in what division. Teams just play the games where they are seeded. Regardless of if your opinion is it's "watered down" or not it's still an accomplishment to play in a state championship. This years whole pitch was competitive equity. So the top 4 teams in Division 1 could have very well been the bottom 4 teams in the open, which is what makes Division 1 competitive. Everyone cried that MM wasn't placed in the OPEN as well as ESP, and St Joes. Presentation was ranked 16th in the state and given the #1 seed by the "experts". They also could have had that last seed in the OPEN.
Why would I come at you with hate? What leads you to believe I have a daughter on the team? Now your rambling saying things that don't have anything to do with what I previously posted. I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just a basketball enthusiast and root for all teams from the city.
If you want to compare teams just for the hell of it. BOD beat MM by 5. SHC beat MM by a smooth 20.
The last time SHC played Mitty they lost by 18 I think and were down 7 with 4 minutes to go in the 4th quarter. At the time they were the only team to hold a lead against Mitty at the end of a quarter. BOD lost by almost 40 and only scored 25 points. No team in the OPEN other that Mitty and SMS beat SHC by more than 20 (EARLY IN THE SEASON) so what makes you think that SHC could not compete with the OPEN teams?
It all comes down to match-ups. The top teams in Division 1 ESP, MM, SHC, & Presentation could compete with some of the teams in the OPEN depending on the matchup.
So to say that "The top teams in the state are in the open division and everyone knows that" is an ignorant statement to me. Just the same as everyone saying Mitty is going to win it all. If nothing else by now you should understand that the games have to be played before we pass judgment and say who can't beat who.
Of course, we never know ...
I would have said that we had a two-team Open before it started (Mitty and SMS), but clearly I was wrong. But that said, probably three or four is the right number -- this year.
Next year, both Mitty and SMS will take a step back (though both will still be formidable), and some other teams will step forward, and others back. Much depends on injury, of course, and there are always transfers to consider.
What that means for this discussion is that the Open selections might be even more up for debate next year, because as CityBoy points out, any four of about eight or nine teams could have reasonably been chosen for the bottom half of the Open this year. Next year, there could be 16 teams, say, that wind up in the conversation for all eight spots.
Regardless, any team that gets to a state final, in any division, has done something worth celebrating. Every team left in the final four of each bracket is a good, confident team with some talent, and winning through is an accomplishment.
Sure, SHC could have been in the Open, or Miramonte, or Presentation, or whoever, but all any team can do is play whoever shows up and try to keep winning. And any team that gets to Golden1 has had a great season.
I would have said that we had a two-team Open before it started (Mitty and SMS), but clearly I was wrong. But that said, probably three or four is the right number -- this year.
Next year, both Mitty and SMS will take a step back (though both will still be formidable), and some other teams will step forward, and others back. Much depends on injury, of course, and there are always transfers to consider.
What that means for this discussion is that the Open selections might be even more up for debate next year, because as CityBoy points out, any four of about eight or nine teams could have reasonably been chosen for the bottom half of the Open this year. Next year, there could be 16 teams, say, that wind up in the conversation for all eight spots.
Regardless, any team that gets to a state final, in any division, has done something worth celebrating. Every team left in the final four of each bracket is a good, confident team with some talent, and winning through is an accomplishment.
Sure, SHC could have been in the Open, or Miramonte, or Presentation, or whoever, but all any team can do is play whoever shows up and try to keep winning. And any team that gets to Golden1 has had a great season.
Clay,
You may recall I commented that IMO Pinewood could play with and/ or beat any team in the nation before the Open tournament. I also stated IMO Mitty, SMS, and Pinewood were all three (not just SMS and Mitty) on the very top elite level slightly above the other 5 teams in the open. So I wasn't the least bit surprised. Especially after seeing ( a starter and key big inside force) Nicole Blakes go down which shifted the rotation, shook up the chemistry and formation, and tested the depth at a crucial time late in the season. That and the way things unfolded in the tournament made it an added challenge for Mitty. They were fortunate the committee decided to put both Pinewood and SMS on the opposite side of the bracket or we may have seen 1 or two different teams in the Norcal championship. Sad for Mitty after such a great run. They showed a lot of character winning after losing Blakes so late in the season. And they obviously put up an enormous fight in a triple overtime loss to a tough and very well coached team.
I think Pinewood was a bit like Clovis West was last year. They were both allowed to play the slight under dog leading into the tournament and all year. That actually allowed them to be a bit more relaxed since the hype and expectations this season and last were on Mitty winning it all.
Congratulations to both Pinewood and Mitty !
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You said she led the team in rebounds. If you meant from the post you should have said that but you said “led the team” which is false. But either way, you were comparing Ortiz and Blakes. Regardless of position Ortiz put up significantly better stats.
I just assumed you were a parent and I did not want my comments taken away from you or your daughters accomplishment because it is huge and as you alluded, you play the hand you are dealt and SHC ducked no one and deserves a shot at a state title because they earned it on the court.
Now, I will disagree the top eight teams are the best teams are in the open. If there were not an open SHC would have been a 3 seed in d2 and likely winning a state title with a running clock. Mitty losing? It took a torn ACL the best player in the state of California fouling out in the 4th quarter and missing the rest of the 4th and three overtimes and another starter fouling out in overtime for Mitty to lose. But, that is why you play the game.
Congrats to the team you support with or without a daughter on the team.
Have you seen SHC play recently? No doubt in my mind that RIGHT NOW they can play with BOD, C-Let, Salesian and CN. What needs to happen is the NCAA format needs to be applied and all teams play under one umbrella. That eliminates all speculation and complaining. If it's not the winner of the OPEN Nor Cal everyone will have a complaint about who's in and what a quality championship looks like. SHC got the 10th seed in D1. Which means they had to go on the road to beat quality teams to get where they are at. Heritage, ESP, St. Francis and MM are very good teams. Maybe not considered OPEN teams but could play and compete with any teams in the bottom half of the OPEN depending on the match up.
Let's see ... there are about 1300 teams in the state of California. There are about 300 in NCAA Division 1, and they take 64. So that would be about a 250-team playoff -- call it 256 so the brackets even out. That's a seven-game tournament to get down to one team, which presumably could be played over a three-week span.
From NorCal, we're probably looking at Alameda or a team like that as the 128th seed ...
It's feasible, but of course you lose a lot of TV money ... and can you imagine seeding all those teams?
From NorCal, we're probably looking at Alameda or a team like that as the 128th seed ...
It's feasible, but of course you lose a lot of TV money ... and can you imagine seeding all those teams?
Were pretty much playing a 7 game tournament now with CCS, NCS, then Nor Cal right? Just have one tournament and get rid of the sections all together. Yes it would take some figuring out but eliminates all the whining from everyone on here about where teams get seeded. The schedule is the schedule play the games your seeded. I wasn't crying on here last year when SHC got the 8 seed in the OPEN and had to go to Mitty and play them for the third time that season. It is what it is. They had Thomas who was a good enough player to try to get it done. This year in particular and probably next year the everyone has a chance at winning there isn't any clear cut favorite in my opinion. At the end of the day it's the same 10 programs you will see sticking around at the end. That's coaching and developing players.
... in addition to totally different (and beneficial) enrollment rules vs. the publics.
If you don’t like the public school rules then lobby to change them! Obviously MM has something going where they keep players coming in on the regular basis. I hardly believe those kids are from the neighborhood lol. Otherwise coaches from public schools need to start developing kids in their area at the lower levels and build from there
The one big tournament doesn't work. I think interest would wane from the non elite schools. I think you can lessen the state brackets so people are trying to get in and then break them apart by enrollment (CCS football model).
