Who will be the 2022 NorCal Open Team?

[bella123]

Exactly.

You know the long running joke around here is that there’s no chance Folsom wants any part of the OPEN as they’d have zero chance to hang another State banner.

As a tangential topic, now that DLS looks to no longer own the path to the CA OPEN there really needs to be a grassroots effort to bring back the NorCal Regional OPEN game. IMO it is needed now more than ever.

The way the things are down South these days with MD and SJB, the CA OPEN game isn’t the Super Bowl for the North anymore but the NorCal Regional OPEN would be.

In fact, let’s move to discontinue the CA OPEN game and just end the season with the NorCal

PAC-5) to be declared State Champs.

I mean, why not?

They discontinued the NorCal Regional OPEN after only 2 years due to competitive reasons so why not do the same for the CA OPEN? It’s actually a much larger competitive disadvantage than DLS vs. the NorCal field ever was.

The benefit would be that we’d get a true NorCal Champ. And those kids wouldn’t then get thrown to the wolves against an all-star team made up of SoCal’s very best players, along with whatever all-stars they attracted from NorCal and other States.

Let’s do it. Let’s start a grassroots campaign to bring back the NorCal Regional OPEN and discontinue the CA OPEN!

Who’s with me??????

Haha. Im usually with you on your post, but that’s a big no for me. I would not want to take away the kids the chance to compete, no matter the odds.

Plus who doesn’t likes underdog? I’m glad they didn’t do this this last year for the Open hoops game. Cen10 was already penciled in as the state champ and many felt there was no reason to play the game. MC gave a great showing and legitimately could have won that game.

 

[HSWIZARD73]

Haha. Im usually with you on your post, but that’s a big no for me. I would not want to take away the kids the chance to compete, no matter the odds.

Plus who doesn’t likes underdog? I’m glad they didn’t do this this last year for the Open hoops game. Cen10 was already penciled in as the state champ and many felt there was no reason to play the game. MC gave a great showing and legitimately could have won that game.

Agree with you on the hoops. We have seen many win in Nor Cal over the years that nobody thought would win nor should have even come close to winning.

But football, you go from 15 guys to 60 plus. When you balance that talent fully out and what has happened to stop DLS dominance by the South, if Serra or Folsom represents the North, it isn’t like Jeremy Lin winning a state title in one of the biggest upsets in state history. 5 guys on a floor and maybe at that level another 3 playing, versus 22 D1 studs is a tad more difficult to overcome

 

[Cal 14]

Glad to see your reply to the SoCal only Open comments. I really dislike rules that are made to address temporary situations. The Folsom rule was one of them. To allow a rule that states that Open division is only for SoCal will come back to haunt us later. It may not seem temporary now that the SS section Trinity league is unbeatable - but eventually that trend will change too.

Also, the SoCal Open only rule will likely wipe out the top two regional teams for SoCal. Theoretically that pits the 25th best SoCal team against the top NorCal team. Its a bad idea all around for the top CIF State title. For now, it seems inconceivable that the eventual SS D1 team will lose to a NorCal top team - so be it until it changes.

What really needs to change is the consistency of transfer rules throughout CIF.

Everyone keeps calling this "The Folsom Rule", but the way that the sections are currently structured, it would extremely foolish for any of the sections to vote for a return to an Open Regional game.

The SS has a system in which the top division is supposed to house all of their top teams. It would make no sense for their D-II winner to have to face the D-I winner. The San Diego Section doesn't really have any incentive to go up against SS D-I, when their Open champ can go up against SS D-II in CIF D-1AA. The LA City Section Open Division champ from last year barely got by the SDS D-IV champ before getting pummeled by McClymonds.

It is funny, though, that for years SS fans would laugh at NorCal because no one could beat DLS. "Why can't someone just sack up and beat them?!?!?" Well, now the LA Times has been proposing a reduction of SS D-I down to 4 teams because it's believed #s 5-8 can't compete with the big 3. A lot of SoCal fans are on board with this, which I find pretty funny, as a lot of them would be normally first on-board the "Why does everyone have to get a trophy?" train.

 

[colhenrylives]

The Southern Section is the ungainly elephant in the CIF's living room. The SS has more schools than all of NorCal combined. It also has the most clout, by far. It's one reason SS schools hang banners that declare, "CIF Champions" when a title is actually a SS crown.

 

[dcpanda]

The Southern Section is the ungainly elephant in the CIF's living room. The SS has more schools than all of NorCal combined. It also has the most clout, by far. It's one reason SS schools hang banners that declare, "CIF Champions" when a title is actually a SS crown.

It always struck me as odd that they say that.

 

[Santa Ball]

For right now I have
1. Serra
2. St. Mary's
3. Folsom visiting Florida

Pop Warner Super Bowl > Home

 

[pastyfastquick3]

1. Serra
2. Folsom

3. Big Gap

4. Everyone else

 

[ThunderRam]

Haha. Im usually with you on your post, but that’s a big no for me. I would not want to take away the kids the chance to compete, no matter the odds.

Plus who doesn’t likes underdog? I’m glad they didn’t do this this last year for the Open hoops game. Cen10 was already penciled in as the state champ and many felt there was no reason to play the game. MC gave a great showing and legitimately could have won that game.

My idea was mostly tongue-in-cheek, and pointing out an obvious hypocrisy.

Seemingly most of us here were against what was jokingly referred to as “the Folsom rule” but if they felt the imbalance of that matchup was so great — why not the CA OPEN Bowl game? That’s become a game with a far greater competitive disadvantage over the past 6-7 years. One that even a dominant DLS could no longer overcome.

Still, regardless of keeping that game alive, we still need the Regional OPEN to come back.

The challenge is convincing the Southern Section to go along with it. They don’t want to play a game beyond their sectional championship and the State game.

 

[ThunderRam]

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything, but come on.

I have no problem with re-instituting the Open play-in game in NorCal (and SoCal). Great idea, actually.

However, to crown a SoCal team state champ without them having to play a game vs the NorCal representative, even a game you are sure they will win by 50 points? Come on.

That's like that time four years ago when most of the SFL teams went on record in the Sac Bee and said they couldn't beat Folsom so they wanted them out of the league.

It's unbecoming of competitive sports.

Change the rules to make things fairer? Sure. Change the structure of the state playoffs to de-emphasize North vs South? Okay. Just don't play the game? Nah.

As I stated above, I wasn’t being completely serious. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of discontinuing the Regional OPEN after 2 years while continuing the State OPEN game which has a far worse competitive disadvantage.

I didn’t like the NorCal Regional OPEN being discontinued and I’d feel the same regarding the State game.

That said, anyone that believes the North has any realistic shot in that matchup given the current circumstances of how the Trinity League is able to construct teams — you’re in complete denial.

If the rules and playing fields aren’t made to be more equal — there really isn’t much point to playing the game.

The SoCal participant is building their rosters from a completely different set of rules and circumstances than the North is. And differently than 99% of the country.

That’s the only way the same 2 teams can consistently be #1 and #2 in the entire country.

At what point does it become too big a farce and too ridiculous to ask the kids from the North to play this game?

Prior to 2014/15ish, it wasn’t this way. And the game made sense.

But Mater Dei and SJB have since gone batshit crazy. FACT.

 

[parkdale]

As I stated above, I wasn’t being completely serious. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of discontinuing the Regional OPEN after 2 years while continuing the State OPEN game which has a far worse competitive disadvantage.

I didn’t like the NorCal Regional OPEN being discontinued and I’d feel the same regarding the State game.

That said, anyone that believes the North has any realistic shot in that matchup given the current circumstances of how the Trinity League is able to construct teams — you’re in complete denial.

If the rules and playing fields aren’t made to be more equal — there really isn’t much point to playing the game.

The SoCal participant is building their rosters from a completely different set of rules and circumstances than the North is. And differently than 99% of the country.

That’s the only way the same 2 teams can consistently be #1 and #2 in the entire country.

At what point does it become too big a farce and too ridiculous to ask the kids from the North to play this game?

Prior to 2014/15ish, it wasn’t this way. And the game made sense.

But Mater Dei and SJB have since gone batshit crazy. FACT.

I agree with this. My sense is that at MD and SJB that parents and hangers-on are doing the recruiting and that is how kids from the Inland Empire for example wind up at these schools. But I don't know for sure. Perhaps someone else has insight.

 

[ThunderRam]

I agree with this. My sense is that at MD and SJB that parents and hangers-on are doing the recruiting and that is how kids from the Inland Empire for example wind up at these schools. But I don't know for sure. Perhaps someone else has insight.

Facts are, prior to 2014, neither Mater Dei nor SJB were producing Nat’l top 10 teams — let alone #1 and #2 — on a yearly basis.

MD certainly had some super teams over their history, but #1 or #2 in the entire country for numerous years running? Nope. Not even close.

It’s as if they expect the masses to believe that the water in Santa Ana and Bellflower was suddenly spiked with some super football power producing all these phenomenal players.

Maybe it’s like “Black Panther” and they’ve been cultivating the purple heart-shaped herb granting super human strength and speed. SMH.

They’ve been private schools with lots of money for decades. And their locations haven’t changed.

What’s changed needs to be stopped. It’s hurting HS sports.

 

[larry legend33]

Agree with you on the hoops. We have seen many win in Nor Cal over the years that nobody thought would win nor should have even come close to winning.

But football, you go from 15 guys to 60 plus. When you balance that talent fully out and what has happened to stop DLS dominance by the South, if Serra or Folsom represents the North, it isn’t like Jeremy Lin winning a state title in one of the biggest upsets in state history. 5 guys on a floor and maybe at that level another 3 playing, versus 22 D1 studs is a tad more difficult to overcome

I’ve thought about the same thing as well and you just can’t compare football with hoops. We’ve seen so many upsets in hoops and will continue to also. It’s a quick 32 min Hs game and an off night can really derail the best of these teams. And basketball is so much more of a game of runs vs football which can be slowed down and processed. As you know, a lot of the norcal hoop upsets were teams with a lot of very good players who were often not discovered and ended up playing d1 after they showed what they can do on stage. These super teams from SJB and MD have 3rd string guys with offers. The Talent, size, and Volume is just too hard to overcome. Rarely do you see a super dominant team in football lose to an inferior one. That’s not the same for hoops. Especially now with 3pt line.

THESE SOCAL FOOTBALL TEAMS REMIND ME A LITTE OF OAK HILL ACADEMY HOOPS BACK IN 80-90’s.

 

[ThunderRam]

I’ve thought about the same thing as well and you just can’t compare football with hoops. We’ve seen so many upsets in hoops and will continue to also. It’s a quick 32 min Hs game and an off night can really derail the best of these teams. And basketball is so much more of a game of runs vs football which can be slowed down and processed. As you know, a lot of the norcal hoop upsets were teams with a lot of very good players who were often not discovered and ended up playing d1 after they showed what they can do on stage. These super teams from SJB and MD have 3rd string guys with offers. The Talent, size, and Volume is just too hard to overcome. Rarely do you see a super dominant team in football lose to an inferior one. That’s not the same for hoops. Especially now with 3pt line.

THESE SOCAL FOOTBALL TEAMS REMIND ME A LITTE OF OAK HILL ACADEMY HOOPS BACK IN 80-90’s.

Very good point, LL.

Basketball is a lot different than football. One great example of this DLS’s football team.

Could the 151 or 300+ streaks ever have happened in basketball? For anyone??

Football has way more players and moving parts involved. And depth of talent matters a lot more.

One or two players can have a HUGE impact in basketball whereas you could put today’s version of Patrick Mahomes and Tyreek Hill on, say, Foresthill’s Varsity football team and that team isn’t going to win the CA OPEN.

I honestly believe the better Mater Dei and SJB teams could compete with and probably beat a good share of JC teams.

 

[Sacchiefs]

What separates Mater Dei and Bosco from the rest of the teams in California is easy to see, especially if you follow HS football. Scheduling!!!

These Kids want to play in the marquee games, especially out-of-state games. These games get them so much more publicity and attention.

How many of you in the off season are like me and cant wait for teams to roll out the upcoming football schedule. It is no different for these student-athletes. That's why teams like Mater Dei and Bosco are so quick to market there schedules for the upcoming season. They know it will drive talent to there programs.

"The proof is in the pudding"

Ive read numerous times on this board that socal built superteams to beat DLS. Id argue that there was another reason even tho DLS had a major role. We can thank Bishop Gorman for that.

BG became a power by scheduling out of state teams. Teams like DLS. DLS scheduled a few out-of-state teams here and there. BG took it to another level and right before they started to win national championships, something changed. They started to schedule 3-5 oos games each year. As a result the talent and stars showed up from the LA area. Remember Snoops son and Mohammed Ali's grandson?

This played a hug role in shaping hs football in socal. Bosco caught on real quick and stepped up there schedules. Prior to 2011 I believe they only played 1 oos games. In 2012 they beefed up there schedule and started to add marquee games. By 2013 they were national champs.

Mater Dei was late to the party and started to schedule oos opponents in 2017, subsequently that year they won the national championship.
Since then both teams have continued to schedule oos opponents and dominate the landscape. And Bishop Gorman who dominated socal is no longer drawing all of the top talent from the la area.

None of this is new, just on another level because of the large socal population. Up north, Grant, DLS, St Marys, and Del Oro can be added to the list at one point. When Taylor left DO for Capital Christian he scheduled big and the talent followed. After leaving, the schedule weakend and a lot of the talent left.

And btw I believe Kids go to Folsom because of an opportunity to win a championship not scheduling. They will become scary good and draw talent from all over Norcal if they ever start scheduling oos games like most of us want them too. Be careful what you wish for. Imagine if Folsom played BG, St Thomas Aquinas of Florida, Duncanville of Texas, St Johns of DC, or St Frances of Maryland on a yearly basis. We would definitely see a superteam develop.

Okay enough of that...To stay on topic, in my opinion Id say an undefeated St Marys team would get the nod for the open bid over an undefeated Serra team. Thunder made some good points based on common opponent wins that I believe make sense to me.

 

[Cal 14]

It always struck me as odd that they say that.

I fought that battle for the first several years of the message boards. It’s not just the SS, though. The SDS says it, too. You’d often see this question in the mid-2000s:

“Which is better? ‘CIF or LA City Section’?”

I would respond “Well, the LACS has teams like Dorsey, Crenshaw, and Banning, while the CIF has teams like De La Salle, Mission Viejo, LB Poly, Dorsey, Crenshaw, and Banning.”

 

[pastyfastquick3]

Imagine if Folsom played BG, St Thomas Aquinas of Florida, Duncanville of Texas, St Johns of DC, or St Frances of Maryland on a yearly basis. We would definitely see a superteam develop.

What a great point. I don't think I ever thought of it like that.