SHC makes Sweet 16 semis
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It's like taking an NIT championship over a conference title and a bid to the dance. You sound like the type to sandbag.
You don't take anything you get what you earn! The experience of playing for and winning a state championship in any division is more than than winning your league. That's why when you walk into any gym you see the state championship banner is 10 times the size of banner for winning your league. I've personally won league and state championships so I'm speaking from experience. Have you ever won anything before? You win the N.I.T. you put a banner up. You don't get banners for tournament births. You sound like you on that BLUE MAGIC!
Normally when someone says their goal is to "win a state championship, not a league championship", it's because they hope to do both. Think about that Cathedral people.
Obviously the goal is to win everything. However, there isn't anybody in their right mind that would take a league title over a state title.
It really depends on the school and their lineage. For the SH girls like Mitty, their goal is state. Everything else below that is "nice". A school say like Mercy or Presentation, a league title or CCS would be right at their ceiling.
That was the point I already made. SHC isn't aiming for league championships. The bigger stage no matter open or division is the goal. No coach is going to hang their heads at a DIII state championship. People act like the teams playing for state championships are JV teams or something smh.
How did the open division change the way the game is played? No state championships have been diminished. What interview have you seen with a coach say well it's only a DII championship and not happy about that. Last I checked coaches and players were all smiling in the pic after winning on every division.
Agree completely. The only people that argue the point are non players on message boards. My daughter's team won two D2 championships. Nowhere on the banner hanging in the gym does it say 'yeah but".
Of course the coach is not going to say that. Are you seriously going to say that SHC winning d3 in 2016 is the same feat or of the same quality as the one they won back in the Harrigan days? When you remove the #1 and #2 seeds from the bracket and put them in open then the path has been cleared.
Now, the irony now they have a team that would win D3 state (under former format) but they will go to the open and "spoiler alert" they will not win the open state championship. The same thing for Cardinal Newman this year. So it will balance out or so that is the logic I think.
For me, I think it would be great if both SHC and CN could win their state championships when they are best teams in their division, not because teams were pulled up. CN is loaded this year and for them to be fodder in the open is not right. but at least the kids were able to win a state championship last season.
This is meant as no disrespect to these teams because they are even better this year and one way or another they were going to win a state title it just happened sooner than later.
The system has changed a lot over time -- back in the '90s you could opt up a division or two or three to avoid playing a small school powerhouse. Then you were locked in by enrollment but each section made its own rules -- so Mater Dei, with 2,200 students, was Division II and won a state title.
And any time you have divisions, regardless of how they are set up, there is no guarantee that the best team will win Division I. The best team could be in DIII or even DV.
I don't think the Open has changed that aspect of the playoffs that much, but what it has done is put most of the schools that are serious recruiters in their own category. (And to be clear, I don't consider recruiting to be a sin ...) It also pretty much guarantees that the champion of that division is the best team in the state, or at least one of the top three or four.
Finally, winning a state championship at any level is a grueling, demanding process that requires luck, dedication, talent and focus over a long, long season. If you've ever done it, or even gotten to the championship game, you know what I mean; if you haven't, it's really hard to imagine what it takes.
And any time you have divisions, regardless of how they are set up, there is no guarantee that the best team will win Division I. The best team could be in DIII or even DV.
I don't think the Open has changed that aspect of the playoffs that much, but what it has done is put most of the schools that are serious recruiters in their own category. (And to be clear, I don't consider recruiting to be a sin ...) It also pretty much guarantees that the champion of that division is the best team in the state, or at least one of the top three or four.
Finally, winning a state championship at any level is a grueling, demanding process that requires luck, dedication, talent and focus over a long, long season. If you've ever done it, or even gotten to the championship game, you know what I mean; if you haven't, it's really hard to imagine what it takes.
I don't get into the who is better than who discussion. But I will say that each player has a different skill set and play under different systems and coaches. Those factors make a huge difference. So it boils down to what needs a college team has at the time their recruiting players, where a players wants to attend school, and what team a player ends up on. I think it's fair to say all the players folks have mentioned above are solid young players with a bright future. Who is better than who makes it seem like there is a road block in the way of each player reaching their own individual max potential. Wouldn't be nice if we all looked at it like there is enough success to go around that many can be successful without it preventing others success? Because I don't care what player you name from high school to pro they have all been beat by 50 points and played games they wished they would have played better in. And there is no player that plays well and wins a championship every time they play in one.
May each of the young promising players stay healthy and keep finding ways to improve their games and become better players and people.
I actually am going to say that SHC winning a state championship DIII now is the same quality of a win as it was when Harrigan won it. Not all teams in the divisions were strong back then either. You might have had 2 strong from the north and 2 from the south. Still a cake walk until nor cal finals. Not to mention they did not have to play Open CCS back then either. I wouldn't count them out of the open this year or next year either. If they are healthy with a stud in Thomas and 2 transfers to give them more depth they can match up and beat just about anybody in the field.
We need to ban the phrase "When our transfers become eligible". It is the same as saying "We are not good enough now and we knew during the off season so we recruited a couple more kids to help us and move those that have been with us to the bench".
You sound silly man and you really just hatin to be hatin. Kids transfer out and kids transfer in. Obviously teams change and players become eligible due to depth alone. That team is playing with 8 right now and everybody on that team can play. Same goes for other schools with kids that have injuries or transfers. To overlook that is silly. Let's talk at the end of the season and see where everybody is.
Lol a full JV squad?!? JV and varsity is 2 different levels!!! You sound silly man
So, there is not one player at SHC on the JV team that could jot be the 9th man on a team that is loaded? Better start recruiting some more, because if you don't have one player in the program right now that can at least be the 9th man they are not going to be able to help next year.
They will be just fine next year. They have 9 Juniors coming back. With the schedule they have and the caliber of teams they play no JV player is ready to step into that. The mistakes you make on the JV level will cost you games on the varsity level. They will just have to weather the storm and do the best they can with what they have.
9 Juniors but only 8 on the team? My math is not great but something is not adding up
You don't pay much attention do you. Seems like you just post anything with out reading or paying attention to previous posts. They have more than 8 players. A few of them are out with injuries. Obviously if they have a few players hurt one of them has to be a junior, right? You must of took another hit of that blue magic.
What's silly is comparing a DIII title in the Open Era to the ones Brian won.
How so? All of the teams in DIV at that time weren't great. There were 1 or 2 strong teams from the north and 1 or 2 from the south. Pretty much the same as it is now. The thing that made his TEAM a great team is that they played a tough pre-season schedule against top teams out of that division. That has nothing to do with the strength of the division at that time.
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The BEST teams from DIV were still not that good. The WCAL was tougher competition than the road to the DIV state title. Back then DI, II were the top divisions because of enrollment. Even with the best teams in the lower division playing, teams still were not that good. That's why I said what made his teams then great is them playing pre-season tournaments and beating teams in other divisions.
Just for the hell of it here's their schedule from that first year. If you know anything about these other schools programs in DIV then and now you should understand my point. The only school in DIV at that time that was good was Windward. So yes they were playing against the best teams in that division but those teams still weren't good. Again, were not talking about how good his team was were talking about the strength of the division.
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-school...a)/girls-basketball-winter-05-06/schedule.htm
CIityBoy415
If DIV has some many bad teams the why did CN beat SHC by 12 points? Some teams in the lower division dont beling there. Brookside beat SHC last year when they was DIV team but now D1. Cant say lower Division teams are weaker. Dont forget about Salesian was DIV too last year.
If DIV has some many bad teams the why did CN beat SHC by 12 points? Some teams in the lower division dont beling there. Brookside beat SHC last year when they was DIV team but now D1. Cant say lower Division teams are weaker. Dont forget about Salesian was DIV too last year.
yea but this conversation wouldnt be possible if Mirarmonte would have won the D3 title last year...
and btw,
you are wrong.. a) they won D3.. b) the D2 winner was Mitty, a 6 seed, with 11 losses (2 losses to SHC) so that division was NOT stronger.. c) SHC had to go through an undefeated St Mary's Stockton in the nor cal final.. so I'm pretty sure they were in the toughest division possible, even if it was by chance.. d) I think the only other teams besides SHC and AM to make NorCal was SI and Valley, with only Valley even making a semi, so doesn't seem like the WCAL was tougher than the state tournament..
and btw,
you are wrong.. a) they won D3.. b) the D2 winner was Mitty, a 6 seed, with 11 losses (2 losses to SHC) so that division was NOT stronger.. c) SHC had to go through an undefeated St Mary's Stockton in the nor cal final.. so I'm pretty sure they were in the toughest division possible, even if it was by chance.. d) I think the only other teams besides SHC and AM to make NorCal was SI and Valley, with only Valley even making a semi, so doesn't seem like the WCAL was tougher than the state tournament..
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Did you read the previous thread? My argument is that SHC's division III championship last year is just the same as their DIV championship in 2005 (THEY WERE A DIV TEAM IN 2005).SHC losing to CN by 12 in a preseason game this year with only 7 players doesn't have anything to do with playing for championships and the different in competition in the open vs divisions. Read the thread before you jump in the conversation. Yes, both of those teams are good DIV teams but that doesn't mean that the division is loaded with talent.
The conversation would be possible if Miramonte was DIII last year. Adding Miramonte and them winning it doesn't make all those other teams better lol. My point is still valid. You would have 2 really good teams from the North and 2 really good teams from the south. What year are you looking at. SHC 2005 won the DIV title. Again, looking at '05 and the teams played to win the DIV title, the WCAL was better competition than that road to win state. I sent you the link. Look at the teams they played. They didn't move up in division until '07.
Here's the link to '06-'07 where is all the good competition your talking about? If this year had been an open year SMS and SH would have played up. The other teams still were not that good. I agree the open is tougher but the Divisions now and then were the same. The top 2 teams in the division for the most part get moved up and the rest remain. Either way the elite teams don't play tough games until Nor-Cal and State finals.
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-school...a)/girls-basketball-winter-06-07/schedule.htm
Here's the schedule from the year they won DIII. Where is all the competition? They didn't play anyone good until Nor-Cal and state championships. I think your argument would be better stated with another program, maybe. With SHC being the top of the division in all of this you really have no argument. If Miramonte was DIII last year SHC would still only play one good team in the division in the Nor Cal championship. Removing 1 team doesn't change the strength of the entire division.
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-school...a)/girls-basketball-winter-07-08/schedule.htm
It really depends, year to year, where the strength is -- and though the Open lifts some powers, it doesn't necessarily lift them all.
I think the Open makes it easier to win a Division title, but it's not written in stone that a particular division will be harder or easier than one ten years ago. Certainly, some divisions are easier with the Open, but a state title is a state title.
I think the Open makes it easier to win a Division title, but it's not written in stone that a particular division will be harder or easier than one ten years ago. Certainly, some divisions are easier with the Open, but a state title is a state title.
Name a state title since the open that did mot have a team removed from the tournament, North or South?Four years of the open and five divisions (excluding the open) means twenty state championship games and I would bet in eighteen of the twenty games a team was removed, which made the bracket easier.
That would be like saying winning the Sugar Bowl or Orange Bowl is the same now even though Alabama has been moved to the Open. Don't put shaving cream on my milkshake and tell me it is whip cream.
That would be like saying winning the Sugar Bowl or Orange Bowl is the same now even though Alabama has been moved to the Open. Don't put shaving cream on my milkshake and tell me it is whip cream.
So there are 16 Open berths, north and south, though one year the South didn't fill them all. That means the teams that are left are presumably the 17th best on down, though in fact that's not quite true. Upsets, weird decisions, etc., probably mean that at least one top 12 team is in a division and most likely a top 10.
Pre-Open, however, teams were stacked in particular divisions by enrollment (different divisions were tougher each year) and so Division III, say, might be relatively easy and Division II very difficult.
In 1999 (I think that was the year), we won the state title at Acalanes and it was one of those seasons when that particular division was very weak. We were a good team, but we were also really lucky -- if we had been in a different division, we might not have even made the semis.
Another factor: The quality of play among the top 50 to 75 teams in the state is much higher than it was 10 to 15 years ago. The top few teams were just as good but the depth wasn't there, so it may be just as hard now as in 2005 because there are more good teams.
Pre-Open, however, teams were stacked in particular divisions by enrollment (different divisions were tougher each year) and so Division III, say, might be relatively easy and Division II very difficult.
In 1999 (I think that was the year), we won the state title at Acalanes and it was one of those seasons when that particular division was very weak. We were a good team, but we were also really lucky -- if we had been in a different division, we might not have even made the semis.
Another factor: The quality of play among the top 50 to 75 teams in the state is much higher than it was 10 to 15 years ago. The top few teams were just as good but the depth wasn't there, so it may be just as hard now as in 2005 because there are more good teams.
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