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State Bowl Games

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Everyone who wants to know what NorCal Teams are matched with which SoCal counterpart already has it dialed in. But in scanning the CIF State site, I saw these interesting observations.

This year’s games feature 10 schools with State titles: De La Salle (7-6), St. John Bosco (2-0), Sierra Canyon (2-1), Corona del Mar (1-0), Serra, San Mateo (1-1), McClymonds (3-0), Escalon (1-0), Milpitas (1-0), St. Bernard’s (1-0), Lincoln, San Francisco (1-0). Additionally, three schools return in search of their first State crown: Clayton Valley Charter (0-2), Cardinal Newman (0-2), Bakersfield Christian (0-2). The remaining 15 schools are making their CIF State Football Championship Bowl Game debut.

I don't think this information is copyrighted so here is the full text.

https://www.cifstate.org/sports/football/2019_st_fb

Matchups Set for State Football Championship Bowl Games
Posted: Dec 08, 2019
14 State Championship Bowl Games to Occur Throughout the State

SACRAMENTO, CALIF. – Following CIF State Regional Bowl Games play, the schedule is now finalized for the 2019 CIF State Football Championship Bowl Games. Five games, Divisions Open through 2-A, will be held Friday-Saturday, December 13-14, at Falcon Field – Cerritos College, Norwalk. Additionally, the nine other State Championship games in Divisions 3-AA through 7-AA will be held on Saturday, December 14, at various host sites throughout California.

This year’s games feature 10 schools with State titles: De La Salle (7-6), St. John Bosco (2-0), Sierra Canyon (2-1), Corona del Mar (1-0), Serra, San Mateo (1-1), McClymonds (3-0), Escalon (1-0), Milpitas (1-0), St. Bernard’s (1-0), Lincoln, San Francisco (1-0. Additionally, three schools return in search of their first State crown: Clayton Valley Charter (0-2), Cardinal Newman (0-2), Bakersfield Christian (0-2). The remaining 15 schools are making their CIF State Football Championship Bowl Game debut.

The following is the schedule of games:
OPEN DIVISION
De La Salle (12-1) vs. St. John Bosco (12-1) on Saturday, Dec. 14 at 8:00 p.m. at Cerritos College

DIVISION 1–AA
Central, Fresno (14-0) vs. Sierra Canyon (14-1) on Friday, Dec. 13 at 8:00 p.m. at Cerritos College

DIVISION 1–A
Serra, San Mateo (13-1) vs. Corona del Mar (15-0) on Saturday, Dec. 14 at 4:00 p.m. at Cerritos College

DIVISION 2–AA
Clayton Valley Charter (9-5) vs. Aquinas (13-2) on Friday, Dec. 13 at 4:00 p.m. at Cerritos College

DIVISION 2–A
McClymonds (11-0) vs. Pacifica, Oxnard (14-1) on Sat., Dec. 14 at 12:00 p.m. at Cerritos College

DIVISION 3–AA
El Camino, Oceanside (9-6) at Cardinal Newman (13-1) on Sat., Dec. 14 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 3–A
Bakersfield Christian (11-3) at Rancho Cotate (11-1) on Sat., Dec. 14 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 4–AA
Highland, Palmdale (12-3) at Ripon (13-1) on Sat., Dec. 14 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 4–A
La Jolla (10-4) at Escalon (13-1) on Sat., Dec. 14 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 5–AA
El Monte (15-0) at Del Norte, Crescent City (13-2) on Sat., Dec. 14 at 6:00 p.m. SITE TBD

DIVISION 5–A
Reseda (11-3) at Milpitas (8-6) on Sat., Dec. 14 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 6–AA
South, Torrance (11-4) vs. St. Bernard’s, Eureka (11-3) at Humboldt State Univ. on Sat., Dec. 14 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 6–A
Bishop Union (12-2) at Salesian, Richmond (11-3) on Sat., Dec. 14 at 12:00 p.m.

DIVISION 7–AA
Gardena vs. Lincoln, San Francisco at City College of San Francisco on Sat., Dec. 14 at 12:00 p.m.

*Times and location subject to change

TICKET INFORMATION
Tickets for the 2019 CIF State Football Championship Bowl Games are available at participating schools, online at gofan.co and day of at the event site.

For games at Cerritos College, tickets are $15 for adults and $10 for high school students (with a valid ASB card), seniors (65+) and children. All tickets are for general admission seating and are valid for all games on a single day. Two tickets would be required in order to attend at least one game on each day at Cerritos College.

For games at host sites tickets are $12 for adults and $8 for high school students (with a valid ASB card), seniors (65+) and children (under age 5 free).

BROADCAST INFORMATION

Television
Spectrum will broadcast all five contests at Cerritos College LIVE. All games will air on Spectrum News1 (Open Division game will also air on Spectrum SportsNet.

In Northern California, NBC Sports will also carry all five games at Cerritos College, please check your local listings.

All nine remaining CIF State Championship Bowl Games will be streamed live online via the NFHS Network..
 
So ridiculous. EVERYBODY GETS A STATE TITLE!!
14 state title games, for what??

Yeah it is kind of ridiculous. They are really more like bowl games than actual state championships.

The Open is the closest to an actual state title, except due to the Folsom rule they don’t even play anyone beyond section until the state final.

After that, the 1AA game is more like a 3rd place game as the top 2 teams were in the Open. 1A is like a 7th place game as 6 teams above them were in the 1AA regional playoffs and the Open. Then 11th place...

I’d rather see maybe 4 divisions with actual 8 or 16 team playoffs for each division. Cut back on some Section games and it’s doable. But the CIF can’t even figure out what to do with the Oakland and San Francisco “Sections”, much less a real playoff structure.
 
So ridiculous. EVERYBODY GETS A STATE TITLE!!
14 state title games, for what??
That's very Flagrant - to include EVERYBODY, you need 1039 state titles - or even half - 519 state titles?

Take my home state - Washington. They have 5 divisions. That's pretty normal among different states. But that turns out to be approximately 58 teams per division. Or consider Texas, the largest state of HSFB (1208 teams) - they have 18 divisions or an average of 67 teams per division. Compare that to CA. - they have an approximate average of 74 teams per division. This review suggest that maybe CA doesn't have enough divisions:eek:
 
I’d rather see maybe 4 divisions with actual 8 or 16 team playoffs for each division. Cut back on some Section games and it’s doable. But the CIF can’t even figure out what to do with the Oakland and San Francisco “Sections”, much less a real playoff structure.

OS and SFS are problems for a true playoff system. I really like the idea of a state playoff system. But 4 divisions in a true playoff system is highly limiting.
 
I am ok with it. We all know that the private schools would win most if not all titles if there was only 5 divisions. This at least gives the complainers a chance at winning. These kids from Rancho Choate, Del Norte or other small schools would have zero chance. They arent complaining nor or their parents who get to talk about a state title for the rest of their careers at wal mart or the farm. Most will never play again. Might as well go out a champ.
 
California has 39 million people, 1039 high schools, and 14 divisions.

Indiana has 6.5 million people, 339 high school and 6 divisions.

Alaska has less people than L.A. Unified has students, 28 high schools, and still has three divisions.

California is just huge. Obviously, the Open Game is basically THE state championship, but there is nothing wrong with having lower divisions play state championship "bowl" games.

Even if you went to 64 team tournaments, it would still require six or seven divisions to put in a legitimate number of teams (35% or so). That wouldn't necessarily be bad, though. Teams could take pride in being a "Regional" champ in the final eight or final four the way they now celebrate Section championships.
 
It's not just the tiny Oakland and San Francisco "sections" that remain a CIF problem. The massive Southern Section is a separate state within a state. With close to 600 schools, the SS has more football teams than all of NorCal's sections combined. By any reasonable calculation, the SS should be cut up into at least four separate sections. As it is now, the SS is the very large tail that wags the CIF canine.
 
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Yeah it is kind of ridiculous. They are really more like bowl games than actual state championships.

Yep. That's exactly how I've been describing them for some time.

Is there anybody here that actually likes the current set up? I'm not sure that I've read anybody say they dig it since inception. I recall a lot of us hating the idea when it was first presented.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to ever go backward since there's so many games and the CIF likes their revenue.

I just wish they could be reasonable and call them what they truly are. Bowl games. Except the Open, which is somewhat of a true State title sans the Regionals.
 
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Here is a link to Cal Preps' state championship proposal. It's a 5-division (64 teams each) tournament that would require shortening the current regular season by one game (maybe).

The teams seeded in the example brackets are from the 2015 season. Strangely, De la Salle would be in division 2 in the NorCal bracket. I doubt they would be okay with that.

http://www.calpreps.com/2015/state_proposal.htm
 
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It's not just the tiny Oakland and San Francisco "sections" that remain a CIF problem. The massive Southern Section is a separate state within a state. With close to 600 schools, the SS has more football teams than all of NorCal's sections combined. By any reasonable calculation, the SS should be cut up into at least four separate sections. As it is now, the SS is the very large tail that wags the CIF canine.
MACK is making all those big schools and sections realize that problem.
 
Yep. That's exactly how I've been describing them for some time.

Is there anybody here that actually likes the current set up? I'm not sure that I've read anybody say they dig it since inception. I recall a lot of us hating the idea when it was first presented.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to ever go backward since there's so many games and the CIF likes their revenue.

I just wish they could be reasonable and call them what they truly are. Bowl games. Except the Open, which is somewhat of a true State title sans the Regionals.

I do. You can't only have 5 or 6 divisions for a state this large. It would never work. It wouldn't work in Florida or Texas, either. I don't understand why people would be upset about the number of divisions we have under the circumstances. I think the CIF manages as best they can... but...

both the NCS and SS totally gamed the system this year. It's really unimpressive that the rest of the state let them get away with it.

Also, people need to stop looking at McClymonds as a "small" school. You can't tell me that all of the best football players in Oakland happen to live near the school. The OAL has allowed that one school to be great at the others' expense and I don't really understand why.
 
I do. You can't only have 5 or 6 divisions for a state this large. It would never work. It wouldn't work in Florida or Texas, either. I don't understand why people would be upset about the number of divisions we have under the circumstances. I think the CIF manages as best they can... but...

both the NCS and SS totally gamed the system this year. It's really unimpressive that the rest of the state let them get away with it.

Also, people need to stop looking at McClymonds as a "small" school. You can't tell me that all of the best football players in Oakland happen to live near the school. The OAL has allowed that one school to be great at the others' expense and I don't really understand why.
You ever been to West Oakland? Mack has less than 400 students and less than 100 of those are males. In that 100 maybe half are actually capable or eligible of playing football. More kids leave Oakland to go play in Berkeley, Hayward, Richmond and Concord than stay in West Oakland. This was said last year as well when Mack won. All of the city schools in Oakland are nowhere near the capacity they are capable of. Any good coming from them should be applauded.
 
I do. You can't only have 5 or 6 divisions for a state this large.
.

I can listen to and appreciate this POV, but 13 divisions? You can’t convince me that many are necessary. As I said before, not all section winners are worthy or deserving of playing for a State title.

And bring back the regional for all divisions for Pete’s sake!
 
You ever been to West Oakland? Mack has less than 400 students and less than 100 of those are males. In that 100 maybe half are actually capable or eligible of playing football. More kids leave Oakland to go play in Berkeley, Hayward, Richmond and Concord than stay in West Oakland. This was said last year as well when Mack won. All of the city schools in Oakland are nowhere near the capacity they are capable of. Any good coming from them should be applauded.
Been there several times... Mack is an odd mixture of oncampus students and those from liazoned educational units. I am deeply impressed on how well McClymonds has adapted to a difficult environment. But in saying all that, several individuals have expressed to me how they have designed Mack to be a magnet school culturally, academically and athletically. The school has, according to their own website, 200 males students and 160 female students.But the school is so well run and controlled, you would think it was a private school. And that's where I think Cal is coming from - not saying its not a small school - but it has the athletic characteristics (and I'll add - academic characteristics) of a much bigger, stronger school.
 
Been there several times... Mack is an odd mixture of oncampus students and those from liazoned educational units. I am deeply impressed on how well McClymonds has adapted to a difficult environment. But in saying all that, several individuals have expressed to me how they have designed Mack to be a magnet school culturally, academically and athletically. The school has, according to their own website, 200 males students and 160 female students.But the school is so well run and controlled, you would think it was a private school. And that's where I think Cal is coming from - not saying its not a small school - but it has the athletic characteristics (and I'll add - academic characteristics) of a much bigger, stronger school.
if they did not make that school something different there would be no students.
 
It's easier to accept if you think of it as one bowl game for every THREE MILLION PEOPLE. Then it makes a bit more sense.

Not to me it doesn’t. 39M people don’t participate in the sport. Only true participation numbers matter.

Regardless what those numbers are, 13 games is too many IMO.
 
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You ever been to West Oakland? Mack has less than 400 students and less than 100 of those are males. In that 100 maybe half are actually capable or eligible of playing football. More kids leave Oakland to go play in Berkeley, Hayward, Richmond and Concord than stay in West Oakland. This was said last year as well when Mack won. All of the city schools in Oakland are nowhere near the capacity they are capable of. Any good coming from them should be applauded.

ankle, do you have any knowledge into why the basketball program at McClymonds is lagging so far behind the football program. Since coach Moe left, it seems to have disapeard, compared to football.
Just curious.
Here's wishing you great football
 
Not to me it doesn’t. 39M people don’t participate in the sport. Only true participation numbers matter.

Regardless what those numbers are, 13 games is too many IMO.

I realize that 39 million people don't "Truly" participate, but you must admit that high school sports extend far beyond just the direct participants. This board proves that. Communities embrace their schools' achievements with pride and players hold onto their attachments well into adulthood as alumni.

Additionally, that 39 million is relative to say 7 million in Indiana (6 divisions) or less than a million in Alaska (3 divisions). Indiana and Alaska might have a higher percentage of "true participants," but not at a level that would make our division classes seem overly large. California is almost six times bigger than Indiana. but only has twice as many divisions. CA is 50 times larger than Alaska, but only has four times as many divisions.

I understand your point of view, and I pretty much consider all but one of these games a "bowl" game rather than a true championship, But relatively speaking, it's not an excessive number and I am happy for all of the teams that can raise a banner in the gym. These are far from "participation trophies."
 
I realize that 39 million people don't "Truly" participate, but you must admit that high school sports extend far beyond just the direct participants. This board proves that. Communities embrace their schools' achievements with pride and players hold onto their attachments well into adulthood as alumni.

From this standpoint, I understand and agree with you. But you also must admit that even with the outside support from non participants, it’s still comes nowhere close to millions.

I just believe 13 is too many. Several of us here, who are obviously huge HS fans and supporters, have admitted to losing interest since they adopted the change.

For me, it’s watered down and not special anymore. I really used to look forward to the 5 games. Now I really only pay attention to about 2 of them. And even the Open is ’meh’ since the Trinity League began injecting PED’s in the form of open transfer season.

I truly wish they could find a way to set up a true Regional/State playoff system. Texas manages it. There’s really no good reason CA can’t. And, to me, only about 7, maybe 8 divisions are necessary.


I understand your point of view, and I pretty much consider all but one of these games a "bowl" game rather than a true championship, But relatively speaking, it's not an excessive number and I am happy for all of the teams that can raise a banner in the gym. These are far from "participation trophies."

I totally understand and respect your POV as well. We just fundamentally disagree, that’s all. They are participation trophies to me. As I stated before, not all section winners are worthy or deserving of playing for a State title. But we live in an age where everyone has to be included.

And more games provides the CIF/Sections with opportunity to make more money. IMO, that’s really what it’s all about. Money. And why a true playoff system doesn’t exist. Because the sections don’t want to lose a game or games. Or the importance of their championship. Lost revenue.

But hey, if the schools and players feel good about the games and feel good calling themselves State Champs after beating a hand-picked opponent in a bowl game, that’s awesome for them. Everyone sees things the way they see them.
 
So the team Newman is playing is 9-6? WTF? Do they have forfeits or some crazy schedule? Or is newman going to run clock? I remember when Newman played oaks Christian and St Bonny’s. I think Newman could play oak ridge even this year. It’s really too bad they didn’t get a chance at Mack. Was the state game the Marin Catholic win?
 
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Well @ThunderRam, we are in agreement on one very big part of this: Rigging the system to get the best match-up is a bunch of B.S.. That part of it bugs me to no end. Some sections spread out their best teams to avoid knock-out rounds in their playoffs. This pushes some of their top teams down into divisions they have no place being. To that end, even section division champions might not be deserving of their banners because they are won against lesser opponents.

It's a tough situation to remedy across a state as large as California. There are definite improvements that can be made, no doubt.
 
Not to me it doesn’t. 39M people don’t participate in the sport. Only true participation numbers matter.

Regardless what those numbers are, 13 games is too many IMO.

I agree. 13 games is far too many games for high school students given the risks involved with the sport. High school athletes should only play 10 games a season including playoffs.
 
So the team Newman is playing is 9-6? WTF? Do they have forfeits or some crazy schedule? Or is newman going to run clock? I remember when Newman played oaks Christian and St Bonny’s. I think Newman could play oak ridge even this year. It’s really too bad they didn’t get a chance at Mack. Was the state game the Marin Catholic win?
And yet they cling to D4 in NCS
 
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The issue centers on sections not being on the same page with their section playoffs. If everyone adopted the same format, it would put more pressure on CIF state to narrow the focus.

I would like to have each section have "state" brackets of large, medium, small. Make them 4 teams each and advance to a state tournament (North/South brackets). The rest of the teams can play it out in regular section playoffs. However, that has no chance of happening.

For now, the sections want to keep their own rules to best serve them and CIF wants to additional games to make the tent bigger for revenue.
 
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I agree. 13 games is far too many games for high school students given the risks involved with the sport. High school athletes should only play 10 games a season including playoffs.
He meant 13 "state title" games. Teams can actually play as many as 16 games in a season on the way to a state championship.
 
I'm ok with the amount of divisions also. The CIF has modified the Bowl Games where all section champs get a chance to move on and thats the way it should be. Hell, we even had losers move on and the so called Folsom Rule to make people happy. Problem is, as Dr. Phil would say it, the tail wags the dog. The sections still have the power to do what they want and the CIF has to mop up a State Playoff system to look somewhat respectable. First it was enrollment based, now its competitive based. Fact is, neither works.

First off, if we want competitive games, and fairness to all CIF schools, there needs to be a split between private/open enrollment schools and public schools. Listen, whoever says a private/open enrollment school does not have an advantage over a public school with a 5 mile radius to get its players from, is out of their mind. Now, I'm not sure exactly which public schools have open enrollment but i would lump them in with the privates with a State Playoff system. And if those schools complain about fairness of having to play a private, then drop the open enrollment status and pull kids from your neighborhood.

Now on to a State Playoff System. With a state as large as California and its 1039 member schools, a 12 division state championship is not that unreasonable. Section playoffs would last 3 weeks, with Regionals the 4th week, Super-Regionals the 5th week and State Championships the 6th week.

First, have 2 divisions for the private/open enrollment schools. Make them a Large Division and a Small Division. No reason to have St. Bernards have to play DLS, but to play Cardinal Newman or Palma wouldn't be out of reach. Realistically, they are a private and enjoy the same benefit of pulling players from outside its region. These 2 divisions would not play for sections but instead go into a bracket where schools from different sections would play each other week 11 and on. For people complaining about not being able to win a section championship, do you really think DLS cares about beating Pitt 49-7 every year? Wouldn't Serra rather play Folsom than HMB? And the expense issue, most of these schools travel for pre-season games so we all know money is not an issue.

Second, have 10 divisions for publics after sections, to play for a State Championship. These would be enrollment based divisions. Sections would have to create 8 school brackets to only last 3 weeks. For sections such as the SJS, instead of 7 divisions, it would have to increase to 10 to keep the same amount of participants. Sections such as the NCS, keep it at 7 as they have done. I would split the Southern Section to a North/South section with 14 section champs in the north and 14 in the south. The Oakland/SF sections I would only give 1 Regional spot and re-install the TransBay game.

Section Summary / Regional Qualifiers:
Northern Section: (4) keep playoff system as is, no changes.

North Coast Section: (7) keep playoff system as is, no changes.

Central Coast Section: (5) keep playoff system as is, no changes.

San Joaquin Section: (10) Increase from 7 to 10 to keep same amount of participants

Oakland/SF Section: (1) Re-install TransBay Bowl, only champ advances to regionals.

Central Section: (10) Increase from 6 to 10 to keep same amount of participants.

Los Angeles Section: (7) Increase from 4 to 7 to keep same amount of participants.

San Diego Section: (8) Increase from 6 to 8 to keep same amount of participants.

Southern Section North: (14) to keep the same amount of participants, brackets of 8 instead of 16 and split section in half.

Southern Section South: (14) see above

That is 80 section champs that could be divided by enrollment playing in a State Championship. Keep in mind sections would need to all follow along with the enrollment based seeding similar to the SJS after removing the private/open enrollment schools. No need for Milpitas to be D4 and HMB being in D1.

In future years, schools with repetitive state championships would be bumped up a division, also similar to the SJS.

This is a start, and would not affect sections too severely.
 
The CIF must think very highly of the schools up north, if you compare the schools enrollments.

Ripon 900 vs Highland 4,000
Cardinal Newman 560 vs El Camino 2,900
MACK 360 vs Pacifica 3,100

I know you only need 11 but still? Better Coaching?
 
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I think i
So the team Newman is playing is 9-6? WTF? Do they have forfeits or some crazy schedule? Or is newman going to run clock? I remember when Newman played oaks Christian and St Bonny’s. I think Newman could play oak ridge even this year. It’s really too bad they didn’t get a chance at Mack. Was the state game the Marin Catholic win?
ts the south equivalent of a Milpitas. They played in the same league as Oceanside that just took CdM to the wire. El Camino took down a very good Bishop’s team with Norte Dame commit Tyler Buchner. I don’t think their record indicates how strong they are
 
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ankle, do you have any knowledge into why the basketball program at McClymonds is lagging so far behind the football program. Since coach Moe left, it seems to have disapeard, compared to football.
Just curious.
Here's wishing you great football
i do not have any inside knowledge. i guess because like everything when you are on you attract more. kind of like when you are single women never come around but once you get a girlfriend all the sudden options pop up. cycles maybe? I guess you can go with coaching too. When someone coaches in the inner-city it takes a lot more than most realize.
 
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I think i

ts the south equivalent of a Milpitas. They played in the same league as Oceanside that just took CdM to the wire. El Camino took down a very good Bishop’s team with Norte Dame commit Tyler Buchner. I don’t think their record indicates how strong they are

Their League is in the Top 2 in San Diego, they played a good schedule of San Diego Teams....

They had a run where I think they lost like 4 in a row, but they beat Oceanside to finish the season and have won 6 straight since their 4 game losing streak....

They have averaged almost 40 points a game and put up 75 points in the Section Final over Bishop’s....

CN should be favored and win, but if they take OSide El Camino lightly they will be in for a long night, that team can score....
 
Their League is in the Top 2 in San Diego, they played a good schedule of San Diego Teams....

They had a run where I think they lost like 4 in a row, but they beat Oceanside to finish the season and have won 6 straight since their 4 game losing streak....

They have averaged almost 40 points a game and put up 75 points in the Section Final over Bishop’s....

CN should be favored and win, but if they take OSide El Camino lightly they will be in for a long night, that team can score....

Thanks for the insight. Good stuff.
 
So the team Newman is playing is 9-6? WTF? Do they have forfeits or some crazy schedule? Or is newman going to run clock? I remember when Newman played oaks Christian and St Bonny’s. I think Newman could play oak ridge even this year. It’s really too bad they didn’t get a chance at Mack. Was the state game the Marin Catholic win?
Looking like a running clock on this one. State game was vs Marin Catholic. CN has been dealt a favorable hand possibly due to the adversity for the last couple of seasons. Heavy favorites.
 
Looking like a running clock on this one. State game was vs Marin Catholic. CN has been dealt a favorable hand possibly due to the adversity for the last couple of seasons. Heavy favorites.


I hope it’s a good game for everybody’s sake but the ball certainly seems to be bouncing there way this year finally.
 
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