Windsor #1 seed in D2 goes down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter ropark707
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riding the pine doesn't make a bad coach. Some of the best coaches I can think of in various sports were not great players. And some very good players were not such great coaches. But that said, Windsor was always a little suspect because of the competition in the north. Same could be said of Dougherty and Dublin in the Tri Valley, both of whom went down in the first or second round. Great records but soft schedules. When schedules are soft you really can't tell how good a team is.
Monty played Windsor even last match. League/Rivalry games are very dangerous. Congrats to Coach Tiedemann and monty.
Shocker for sure. Agree that the soft league this year didn't do them any favors. But happy for Monty players and fans, except for the fool who started the thread.
RE coaches, reminds me of Earl Weaver and Jim Palmer's famous quote about him: "The only thing Earl knows about Major League pitching is that he couldn't hit it."
...obviously that was said in a weak moment and though Weaver was not a good enough player to make MLB he had a HOF career as a manager.
RE coaches, reminds me of Earl Weaver and Jim Palmer's famous quote about him: "The only thing Earl knows about Major League pitching is that he couldn't hit it."
...obviously that was said in a weak moment and though Weaver was not a good enough player to make MLB he had a HOF career as a manager.
most people get that this guy is trolling, but Coach Taylor is the real deal, these guys were a good squad, it just didn't happen last night and it's as simple as that. Overrated is not a correct assessment, and they would have been fine running with Newark and EC.
Kids have bad games. It's life. I think I read Windsor was 3-23 from 3. That ain't going to get it done. Windsor was a very good team this year. So are they done? I think they at least had to win this one to advance to NorCal right?
Great assessment Infofreak. All year people have been on this board hyping the DFAL while bashing trams like ODowd who go out and play a real schedule. Who did Dublin or DV play this year..? Nobody! But people on this board week in and week out continue to report how great they are and posting player stats. Both teams are done before the fun even starts
A coach doesn't get to shoot the ball during the game Unfortunately. It's a 32 min game and I assume the other coach jumped into a saggy 2-3 zone. 3-23 on 3's and the game will always come down to the last 3 min usually. A coach cannot make those shots go in. Untimely shooting. It happens to every team, however sucks it was in the play offs. in a 7-game series, they win 6 of them. But in the one game play offs, anything can happen
You know who played a tough schedule is EC.
For kicks I looked at the DV schedule. I'll do Dublin next when I have time. DV played 28 games. 19 of those games were against teams that were ranked 288 or worse (includes league play). They were 19-0 versus this group. The avg ranking of this group was around 535. they played two teams ranked at worse than 1000 in the state. An average ranking of 535 is akin to playing a team like Kimball or Acalanes.
Of their remaining 9 games, no one was ranked higher than 79. They were 6 - 3 against this group. Once you drop to teams ranked 140 or better, DV had a losing record of 2 -3 and their point spread was negative. This is a team that was ranked 54 in the state coming into the post season. Their losses came to a Nevada team ranked about 140, Berkeley at 123 and Dublin at 79.
I thought it was really strange that Freedom was seeded behind DV, and Monte Vista behind Dublin.I would think most people who saw games would say that the seedings should have been De La Salle, Freedom, MV and then a scrum. I come back to the idea that the seeding committee looks at headline won loss without viewing the strength of schedule. If this is how it is, then everyone should be scheduling soft non leagues and we will all die of boredom in December.
The teams with the softest schedules in NCS Div 1 post season were College Park (5.6) DV (8.7) and Dublin (9.4). Freedom was the toughest at 15.6. Castro Valley is underrated and misunderstood because they had a forfeit and some suspension issues that caused losses. But their schedule strength was 11, just under MV's. DV lost to a lower ranked team at home (Berkeley) that played a tougher schedule. The only real upset I see in that group was Freedom's loss to MV. But that was a close call upset because MV nearly got them in non league and the seedings should have been 2 and 3 anyway (in my opinion).
I thought DV and Dublin both played well when I saw them, and I was intrigued by DV because they dominated their schedule and I wondered how they would stack against a tough opponent. But I would have rated them lower than a 3 seed given the quality of opponents with better schedules. And as for Dublin, I would have rated them ahead of DV in NCS because they won the last head to head game and they had a tougher schedule. But that is just me.
I'm looking forward to both semi's in this group. Should be very exciting if CV can get hot and Berkeley can do some running.
For kicks I looked at the DV schedule. I'll do Dublin next when I have time. DV played 28 games. 19 of those games were against teams that were ranked 288 or worse (includes league play). They were 19-0 versus this group. The avg ranking of this group was around 535. they played two teams ranked at worse than 1000 in the state. An average ranking of 535 is akin to playing a team like Kimball or Acalanes.
Of their remaining 9 games, no one was ranked higher than 79. They were 6 - 3 against this group. Once you drop to teams ranked 140 or better, DV had a losing record of 2 -3 and their point spread was negative. This is a team that was ranked 54 in the state coming into the post season. Their losses came to a Nevada team ranked about 140, Berkeley at 123 and Dublin at 79.
I thought it was really strange that Freedom was seeded behind DV, and Monte Vista behind Dublin.I would think most people who saw games would say that the seedings should have been De La Salle, Freedom, MV and then a scrum. I come back to the idea that the seeding committee looks at headline won loss without viewing the strength of schedule. If this is how it is, then everyone should be scheduling soft non leagues and we will all die of boredom in December.
The teams with the softest schedules in NCS Div 1 post season were College Park (5.6) DV (8.7) and Dublin (9.4). Freedom was the toughest at 15.6. Castro Valley is underrated and misunderstood because they had a forfeit and some suspension issues that caused losses. But their schedule strength was 11, just under MV's. DV lost to a lower ranked team at home (Berkeley) that played a tougher schedule. The only real upset I see in that group was Freedom's loss to MV. But that was a close call upset because MV nearly got them in non league and the seedings should have been 2 and 3 anyway (in my opinion).
I thought DV and Dublin both played well when I saw them, and I was intrigued by DV because they dominated their schedule and I wondered how they would stack against a tough opponent. But I would have rated them lower than a 3 seed given the quality of opponents with better schedules. And as for Dublin, I would have rated them ahead of DV in NCS because they won the last head to head game and they had a tougher schedule. But that is just me.
I'm looking forward to both semi's in this group. Should be very exciting if CV can get hot and Berkeley can do some running.
I don't think Dougherty is done. If DLS gets pulled up to the Open this year, the next highest seeded team that made the quarters gets pulled up to NorCal. If DV had beat Berkeley last night then Freedom would be in that spot. Should MV beat DLS in the finals, is it possible both teams go to the Open and Freedom still sneaks in?
No 2-3 zone. Maned them up forced bad shots. Windsor took way too many outside shots for their size and athletic ability. Good coach bad coach whatever. Not in business of slamming coaches. Maybe you're right they beat them 6 out of 7 but not last night. Monty out executed, out focused and out played them. No doubt about it.
Windsor im sure is a good team who had a bad game which can happen to any team but we can not ignore the fact that they played a soft schedule. And its stiff competition that prepares teams for the pressure of playoff basketball......What would Windsor's record be against Ec's schedule? Or Newarks schedule?
Maybe they hang with and even beat Both Ec and Newark but my point is their record was a little deceiving they were probably a good team that had a record of a powerhouse team
Maybe they hang with and even beat Both Ec and Newark but my point is their record was a little deceiving they were probably a good team that had a record of a powerhouse team
Just like Dougherty. Everyone was waiting for them to lose to point at their schedule and they were seeded to high. Except that seeds 3, 4 and 5 also have lost. Every team is capable of having a bad game, and when you get down to the quarters there are no weak teams left.
Windsor's schedule strength was 5.2 or thereabouts. That is very weak in relation to EC or Newark. Windsor lost to a team with a schedule strength of 4 so who really knows if Windsor had a bad game or just isn't as good as it's record? In any event a great win for Monty.
My point on SOS is that teams can pad and pad some more to be rewarded under the current system. Example is DV, who will play in NORCALs because they lost and because of their high seeding. I think Freedom is much more deserving of that opportunity and actually earned it. I bet Freedom in the future thinks more about gaming the schedule since doing so is like winning a couple of extra games in the eyes of the current seeding system.
In the future it would be interesting for these various post season seedings to penalize teams based on weak schedules. Tell a coach, for example, that if he plays a team with a sub 700 ranking that it counts as a loss against his seeding, or say that if he plays a pre season that aggregates worse than a 400 rank that he is disqualified from being a top 4 team if he makes the post season.
No one questions de la salle's seeding because their record was gaudy and they played a very tough schedule. They are the right sort of example of a program that deserved a high seed. Dougherty had the same record but lost to Berkeley, a team with 8 losses and a middling rank, at home. I would say Dougherty is without a doubt a top 200 team, but not a top 50 team.
The soft schedule hid relative weakness so the seeding people should use the SOS as a tool to reward those who take on tougher opponents.
My point on SOS is that teams can pad and pad some more to be rewarded under the current system. Example is DV, who will play in NORCALs because they lost and because of their high seeding. I think Freedom is much more deserving of that opportunity and actually earned it. I bet Freedom in the future thinks more about gaming the schedule since doing so is like winning a couple of extra games in the eyes of the current seeding system.
In the future it would be interesting for these various post season seedings to penalize teams based on weak schedules. Tell a coach, for example, that if he plays a team with a sub 700 ranking that it counts as a loss against his seeding, or say that if he plays a pre season that aggregates worse than a 400 rank that he is disqualified from being a top 4 team if he makes the post season.
No one questions de la salle's seeding because their record was gaudy and they played a very tough schedule. They are the right sort of example of a program that deserved a high seed. Dougherty had the same record but lost to Berkeley, a team with 8 losses and a middling rank, at home. I would say Dougherty is without a doubt a top 200 team, but not a top 50 team.
The soft schedule hid relative weakness so the seeding people should use the SOS as a tool to reward those who take on tougher opponents.
Fellow bball junkies:
I looked at Dublin’s season data as I did DV’s. Here in a nutshell is what I found as compared to Dougherty:
Dublin played a tougher non league - Dublin had better wins - Dublin beat DV head to head (and lost head to head) - Dublin had a better record against top 200 teams - Dublin had a better record vs top 150 teams - Dublin had a tougher schedule and so its won/loss was better when adjusting for that fact - Vs top 150 teams Dublin’s scoring difference was positive (DV’s was negative) -
What does all of this mean? Nothing, really. But it is interesting because it suggests whoever makes these seedings does not look at numbers or data. I really don't know how they look at these things because this division's seedings were for the most part a mess, as proven by the results.
The proper top 8 seedings per the DATA would have been as follows:
1 - De La Salle
2 - Freedom - seeded #3
3- Monte Vista - seeded #6
4- Heritage
5 -Berkeley - seeded #7
6- Dublin - seeded #5
7 - Dougherty - seeded #2
8 - Pittsburg - seeded #9
I looked at Dublin’s season data as I did DV’s. Here in a nutshell is what I found as compared to Dougherty:
Dublin played a tougher non league - Dublin had better wins - Dublin beat DV head to head (and lost head to head) - Dublin had a better record against top 200 teams - Dublin had a better record vs top 150 teams - Dublin had a tougher schedule and so its won/loss was better when adjusting for that fact - Vs top 150 teams Dublin’s scoring difference was positive (DV’s was negative) -
What does all of this mean? Nothing, really. But it is interesting because it suggests whoever makes these seedings does not look at numbers or data. I really don't know how they look at these things because this division's seedings were for the most part a mess, as proven by the results.
The proper top 8 seedings per the DATA would have been as follows:
1 - De La Salle
2 - Freedom - seeded #3
3- Monte Vista - seeded #6
4- Heritage
5 -Berkeley - seeded #7
6- Dublin - seeded #5
7 - Dougherty - seeded #2
8 - Pittsburg - seeded #9
Teams who have real championship aspirations challenge themselves with a strong schedule especially in basketball as loses don't hurt as much as it would in football.Playing a soft schedule in hoops will most definitely expose contenders from pretenders come playoff time. ...A lot of you guys are saying they had a bad game(maybe) but I'm saying maybe they weren't as good as you thought they were. ...A #1 seed playing at home gets smacked in Round 2 (Just saying).......
But what about Semi's?? Newark vs Monty and Ec vs Mt Eden . Who comes out?
In this Division before the tournament I predicted Newark vs Ec in the Finals with Newark coming out on top ,I still like Newark and Ec to meet in Finals with Newark winning by 4 in the championship game.
But what about Semi's?? Newark vs Monty and Ec vs Mt Eden . Who comes out?
In this Division before the tournament I predicted Newark vs Ec in the Finals with Newark coming out on top ,I still like Newark and Ec to meet in Finals with Newark winning by 4 in the championship game.
Legend: Booker over at EC puts together a youth schedule year in and year out. He was playing against the top comp before Carlos Johnson ever stepped foot on campus. Which goes back to my earlier point. Many of the posters on this board seem to be from the Walnut Creek/Tri-Cities area, because all I ever see is mention of sub-par teams and players from those area's being over hyped. Last year I give much credit to Monte Vista. They played in the "Open", took a tough loss in the 2nd round. Meanwhile, the mighty DeLa was left hiding in the DI bracket.
If the coach from windsor was the real deal as others have stated on here, why is he not scheduling decent teams? Seems like hiding in a terrible league/area didn't do his team any good come playoff time. His team didn't know what it was like to win big games. He cost them any shot of teams outside the town green a chance of knowing who they are.
I wouldn't beat up on windsor too much. You can't control how good or bad the teams in your league are. Down year in the NBL. Last few years you had teams like Newman, Monty, and Casa making some real noise deep in the playoffs. Windsor played in a good tournament down in San Luis Obispo over the xmas time. Lost a close game to a very good Dorsey, LA team and played some other decent comp. They lost in their own tourney finals to a good Dublin team in OT. Sometime its not your night. 3-23 from the 3pt line against Monty isn't going to beat many teams. Why were they still shooting them might be a better question. Move on. I think EC has to be the hands on favorite now. They probably were always the favorite quite frankly.
I think what is more alarming is the inability for the windsor coach to make in game adjustments. As you stated, they were 3-23 from the 3 point line and continued to shoot away. This was despite a huge size advantage. Why need to shoot all those threes when you have better and bigger athletes inside. That is just plain old common basketball 101. I think the if the windsor coach had more legitimate experience as a player, he would understand this. Just as another poster said- he rarely got off the bench in high school. I just think the windsor players deserved better
basketball credentials are not earned from simply coaching high school basketball and inheriting a breakfast joint from your pops. 3-23 shows that his credentials are about the same as everyone on here-next to nothing
it sounds like you have an axe to grind, with intimate knowledge of Coach Taylor's personal life and history. I would guess that you are the mom of a Windsor player. Maybe a Windsor player? If you're a grown man, that's hilarious. We don't act like this, bro.
With a couple of newbies bashing Windsor, it seems worthwhile pointing out that they appear to have overachieved this year. They were a 12 seed in 2014 and a 15 seed in 2013. I can't say that I know anything about the Jaguars aspirations this year, but did anything point to them making a giant jump? If not, then they made some great strides this year and were one win from Norcals, up from a 15-13 team last year. Hindsight's 20/20, but it's unfair to look back now and say "you should have scheduled much tougher non-conference games" when they weren't an obvious lock to even qualify for the NCS playoffs.
By the way, it worked out OK for BOD now, but take a look - it looks like they were a 2 point win over Castro Valley and a 4 point win over Berkeley away from not qualifying for NCS. Played with fire and nearly got burnt. If they drop those games and don't qualify, all the tough nonconference competition would have looked foolish.
By the way, it worked out OK for BOD now, but take a look - it looks like they were a 2 point win over Castro Valley and a 4 point win over Berkeley away from not qualifying for NCS. Played with fire and nearly got burnt. If they drop those games and don't qualify, all the tough nonconference competition would have looked foolish.
Noknight, what you point out about the qualify process is part of the problem as I see it. BOD should get some credit for taking those teams on instead of worrying about gaming the schedule. A two or four point win or loss vs a varsity CV or Berkeley should put them in the top 150 conversation and with it a playoff spot (all else being reasonably level) If instead they play a couple of sub 800 teams to get the wins no one really benefits. Time to reform the selection process! Write to your congress member!
No, Windsor was heavy favorites to win the NBL and have a great season which they did. They had basically everybody back and the NBL stronger teams like Newman, Monty, and Casa lost a ton of players to graduation or injuries. I think you can say they underachieved in the playoffs. I had them beating EC in the finals. Boy was I wrong.
Mark my words. If I'm a young kid growing up in Santa Rosa you will want to play for Tiedeman at Monty. Anybody who knows anything about basketball in that area understands where I'm coming from. Bonfigli has had an amazing run at Newman and is a top 20 all time career winner in the state. Enough said. Erickson at Piner gets a ton out of his kids. Hearing good things about there younger class. I don't know anything about windsor coach but he had a great season and should be proud. Hopefully a kid like Gabe Knight continues to play. I think he can play at a D2-D3 school. He does a lot of things well.
Mark my words. If I'm a young kid growing up in Santa Rosa you will want to play for Tiedeman at Monty. Anybody who knows anything about basketball in that area understands where I'm coming from. Bonfigli has had an amazing run at Newman and is a top 20 all time career winner in the state. Enough said. Erickson at Piner gets a ton out of his kids. Hearing good things about there younger class. I don't know anything about windsor coach but he had a great season and should be proud. Hopefully a kid like Gabe Knight continues to play. I think he can play at a D2-D3 school. He does a lot of things well.
Playing a strong preseason schedule should have no affect in making the playoffs. There are many ways to get in. If a team can't go .500 in their own league one could argue they don't belong in the playoffs anyway. I remember when you had to win your league to go on to NCS.
Went to two high school hoops games this year. One of them was the Windsor NCS loss to Monty Friday. I'll take the other side of the Windsor coach discussion. Windsor had one player, number 24. He apparently had a poor shooting night. Only lost by 3 in OT to a team coached by the best high school basketball coaching group you'll ever find. For the Jaguars (1) to have won the last 15 or so games is amazing.. And, (2) to have just barely lost this game is amazing. Credit to the coach.
Welcome to the conversation coach Taylor.
And to refute the point that windsor only lost by 3 in OT to a team coached by the best high school basketball group you'll ever find- r u serious bruh? Windsor was heavy heavy heavy heavy heavy favorite in this game. They had a much superior team and under performed. Other coaches in the area would have taken that squad to the Norcals without much of a fight. The coach under performed (really didn't perform at all) himself in high school and seems to be passing the torch on at windsor. Bruh.
And to refute the point that windsor only lost by 3 in OT to a team coached by the best high school basketball group you'll ever find- r u serious bruh? Windsor was heavy heavy heavy heavy heavy favorite in this game. They had a much superior team and under performed. Other coaches in the area would have taken that squad to the Norcals without much of a fight. The coach under performed (really didn't perform at all) himself in high school and seems to be passing the torch on at windsor. Bruh.
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